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CVW11_Striker
12-25-2007, 06:23 PM
Is there a way to modify the realistic gunnery setting in the .ini or some other configuration file? When it's off it's extremely easy and when it's on it seems way too difficult. Our group has done lots of testing and it seems to be modeled incorrectly. Somewhere in between would be more realistic I would think.

VF-51-Dart
12-25-2007, 07:30 PM
Just curious, but what "lots of testing" have you all done?

tools4foolsA
12-26-2007, 01:02 AM
If it's too difficult in realistic gunnery, then go back to practice. You are simply not hitting, maybe shooting from too far or just inaccurate aim.

Turn on arcade mode to get hit number or hit arrows to see where you actually hit.

Most likely you simply are shooting from way to far.
250-300m was considered LONG range shooting in WWII.

Lots of aces describing their kills were inside of 150m, often down to less than 100m.

If you do the same gunnery suddenly will be working....
++++++

CVW11_Striker
12-26-2007, 01:41 AM
OK, the weapon convergence and range would make sense. I'll try setting it to 300 instead of 400 and holding off on firing until the sweet spot. We're getting the kills, that's not the problem. It just seems to take way more shots than necessary to cause damage. I'm used to flying F18 and Falcon4 so huge difference there no doubt and I'm not used to having to get in so close.

Testing as far as trying as many different combinations of aircraft as possible. We fly quite a bit and there seems to be some major differences. One of them being Zeros.

I know Zeros were very lightly armored. We have two pilots that study the historical battles and I've heard the same thing about Zeros being very easy to destroy due to lack of structural material. However, it seems like they require more shots than necessary to kill in realistic mode than what I've been told.

In easy mode they just blow apart like kites. I just thought that somewhere in between was probably closer to what it was really like. If I'm wrong then I stand corrected.

stansdds
12-26-2007, 04:17 AM
I set convergence to 300m and only shoot when at 300m or closer. Spread and trajectory are modeled, so at ranges closer than convergence you actually have to aim a little lower. Also, as distance to the target increases, the rounds lose energy, so shots placed at close range have more damage potential. Practice, practice, practice.

tagTaken2
12-26-2007, 04:25 AM
Yup, there's no miniguns, radar locks, and death dots with Il-2.

The problem with easy mode is that the bullets have a flat trajectory, so you'd only develop bad habits by using it.
Just get closer-
I have convergence set to 180, and most of my killing is done b/w 100-200m.

berg417448
12-26-2007, 10:12 AM
If you are shooting with 50 calibers you need to get close. The USAF considered 300 yards (not meters) to be the maximum effective range for that weapon (although it is certainly possible to get occasional kills from greater than that distance). Someone who used to post here had a chart from the US manual showing the 300 yard max effective range.

WWSensei
12-26-2007, 11:25 AM
If you are shooting from greater than 200 meters then you are most likely hitting with less than 5% accuracy.

From inside 100 meters, even with 50 cals, most aircraft in this game will go down with as few as 25 bullet hits.

Firing from 300 meters plus is a waste of ammo. Even if you are hitting the relative energy of the hit is far less than that of inside 150 meters.

Also, comparing the F-16's M-61 Vulcan 20mm cannon firing at 6000 RPM with a WW2 based MG or odd 20mm cannon for killing effectiveness is comparing apples to...to...to....well, they don't really compare at all.

VW-IceFire
12-26-2007, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by CVW11_Striker:
Is there a way to modify the realistic gunnery setting in the .ini or some other configuration file? When it's off it's extremely easy and when it's on it seems way too difficult. Our group has done lots of testing and it seems to be modeled incorrectly. Somewhere in between would be more realistic I would think.
Realistic settings is meant to be all the way up so its going to be more difficult if you've spent all your time doing gunnery at the easy setting. Its great that there are options but when it comes down to it you need to work on proper gunnery techniques and skills when you make the jump...its not going to be easy.

Depends on the weapon...but things like convergence and gunnery discipline factor into things. I used to be superb at gunnery deflection and could bring anything down in a short burst...these days I need more time as I haven't been practicing and my last outing in a P-51B were a sore reminder of how bad my gunnery has gotten (got only one or two good shots off at a 109 in a pitched fight I was having). But its my problem and I need to work on it.

Good luck!

CVW11_Striker
12-26-2007, 02:03 PM
I appreciate all the information you have given me. I'll try it and pass it on to the rest of our guys.

I also didn't realize the "flat trajectory in easy mode" either. That would mess your aim up in realistic mode for sure.


Originally posted by WWSensei:

Also, comparing the F-16's M-61 Vulcan 20mm cannon firing at 6000 RPM with a WW2 based MG or odd 20mm cannon for killing effectiveness is comparing apples to...to...to....well, they don't really compare at all.

Wasn't comparing....just said I was used to. I'm very aware of the advancements in weapon technology.

FA_Retro-Burn
12-26-2007, 04:19 PM
I use 170m, but try it against bombers or friendly fighters. Everyone has a different setting. Also, when flying a bomber on-line, it is good to set the distance to 500 or more for the AI gunners.

tools4foolsA
12-26-2007, 11:45 PM
Close in to 150m and let the Zero have a taste of your 50's, they will blow up just fine.

At 300-400yards you are most likely simply not hitting much.
Additional the bullets might be spread all over the plane; a plane can absorb more bullets that way as if they are concentrated in on spot at close range.
Plus your bullets rely on kinetic energy, the further away the less effecticve they are.

You went from 400 to 300 yards now.
Go from 300 to under 200 (my setting is 150m) and you will be looking at a completetly new picture...

Testus01
12-27-2007, 06:25 AM
Convergence settings depend on:
- the aircraft model & ammo
- the pilot (using deflection or not, etc.)
Set different distances for your cannon if in the nose an the guns way apart in the wings for example.
The rest is in two words: fly & try. Hint: share your experience with team mates using com online (i.e. when flying same plane on coops).

ytareh
12-28-2007, 12:32 PM
The 'ring' on your gunsight is (roughly speaking-with the exception of one nation's airforce which slips my mind)set to show when an 'average' single seater fighter's wing tips are 100m away .
Therefore:
1 Set convergence to 100m
2 Close up on the rear of some 'Friendly'(set them as the same airforce as you in Quick Mission Builder for practice)Zeroes or whatever you fancy yourself
3 Fire when wingtips are touching circle of gunsight.

CVW11_Striker
12-28-2007, 02:34 PM
Very interesting. I wasn't aware of that.

Do you know what the "mils" means? At first I thought it referred to milliseconds but it was pointed out to me that's "ms". I've heard a couple different explanations but I'm not really sure what's correct.

berg417448
12-28-2007, 02:49 PM
Good information about gun sights and mils here:

http://www.donsgames.com/donsgamesfm/viewtopic.php?p=73...845d67611db69c15d3c8 (http://www.donsgames.com/donsgamesfm/viewtopic.php?p=7356&sid=31d08c9dd873845d67611db69c15d3c8)

CVW11_Striker
12-31-2007, 02:26 PM
I really appreciate you posting that link. That's exactly what I was looking for and answered all my questions. Thanx!

Bearcat99
12-31-2007, 11:32 PM
Bear in mind too that 300yds=274.3m. 274m is when the icon says .27 .. I don't know how you guys fly.. I prefer to fly with tight icons, but when getting acclimated to the sim I think that flying with icons is a must. It helps you to develop a proper eye for the ranges of things.... You might also want to hit the Nugget's Guide in my sig and scroll down to Sniper's Corner and the guide at M4T. Also consider the RAF Gunnery manual (http://www.332vfg.com/rafgunnery.rar) and some of the EXCELLENT tutorial videos on Dart's Page (http://www.darts-page.com/).

RAAF_Furball
01-01-2008, 07:30 AM
To check how your gunnery is improving, I suggest you play on a server (like ours) where your stats are recorded.