PDA

View Full Version : P39 is teh ****



HotelBushranger
05-08-2005, 02:50 AM
I've been flying the P39 lately, and must say how bl00dy awesome it is to fly! I stayed away from it when I had the demo, as itd stall like a ... stally thingy. But now, I'm on par with turning 109s. Last night on Warclouds, got into a scrum with a 190 and a 109 then another 109 that joined in. It was brilliant to fly, even with a smoking engine, not thick black though. Didn't stall once. Combat Flaps are the way to go! Needless to say, I lost the engagement due to numbers, but had a great fight and got complimented a bit.

Now I wanna fly it all the time, gettin real good in it. Not surprised the Russians had such success with it.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

F19_Olli72
05-08-2005, 03:30 AM
I take it for the occational spin too. That cannon is hard to aim though, Mk108 is a sniper gun in comparison.

I very much prefer the P-39 1N to La-5 etc, but given the choise between those two and Mig 3U... id pick the Mig. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

carguy_
05-08-2005, 03:36 AM
I feel weird reading this.So you didn`t fly it before because it had a violent stall characteristics?It was made easy and now you want to fly it?

F19_Olli72
05-08-2005, 04:08 AM
Originally posted by carguy_:
I feel weird reading this.So you didn`t fly it before because it had a violent stall characteristics?It was made easy and now you want to fly it?

I feel weird reading your post, what is your point? Hasnt the 109 gotten easier to fly? I remember FM's after FB release...i flew 109s exclusively then. Nowdays 109s are both better turners, has gotten stronger armament (the mk108)and has higher energy. Do you feel less inclined to fly it? I wonder.

BBB_Hyperion
05-08-2005, 04:16 AM
The main problem is a smoking p39 can almost run forever.

JamesBlonde888
05-08-2005, 05:13 AM
P-39! Bloody spinning coffin. I would rather the old model LaGG because at least it lets you know when it is going to go over. The centre of gravity in the '39 is criminal the bloody thing is a killer. That is why the yanks were so quick to palm the things off to Russia. They were planning to kill all their pilots before the cold war started.
The only thing it has going for it is that enourmous cannon. A couple of quick passes with that and home for tea I say.

HotelBushranger
05-08-2005, 05:21 AM
Out of curiosity, how much of the P-39 do you fly? Not trying to start something or anything. I flew it today, and keeping speed at 250-350 with Combat flaps on, I was able to turn really well, no spins or anything. I never have problems like I did years ago

JamesBlonde888
05-08-2005, 05:41 AM
Thats okay mate! Anything for a fellow Aussie!

I flew it through part of the Rusian campaign in te original Il-2. Personally I made a lot of smoking holes in holy mother russia with it.

It is okay if you can keep the speed up in it but I found a lot of the combat was taking place at low level and getting any accuracy to be difficult using zoom and boom tactics due to the slow rate of fire of the cannon.

Trying to shake off a 190 or a 109 gave me the willies, those russki's had it tough.

I haven't tried the one in FB yet since I started with the Germanside but I will when I finish that.

BSS_CUDA
05-08-2005, 07:33 AM
spinning was a problem in RL with the 39, it wasnt balanced well and would tuck the tail underneath. the P38 was actually favored over it by the USAAF during WW2. but just like anyother plane in this game. the stick withitness of pilots can make a percieved bad plane good

JamesBlonde888
05-08-2005, 07:41 AM
Yeah you' right. the '39 is an unforgiving ***** but if you handle her right she will get you home. It takes a very sensitive touch to fly one. I preferred it to the MiG-3 that's for sure.

HotelBushranger
05-08-2005, 07:49 AM
Thats okay mate! Anything for a fellow Aussie!

I flew it through part of the Rusian campaign in te original Il-2. Personally I made a lot of smoking holes in holy mother russia with it.

It is okay if you can keep the speed up in it but I found a lot of the combat was taking place at low level and getting any accuracy to be difficult using zoom and boom tactics due to the slow rate of fire of the cannon.

Trying to shake off a 190 or a 109 gave me the willies, those russki's had it tough.

I haven't tried the one in FB yet since I started with the Germanside but I will when I finish that.

Your Aussie? Beauty! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

With the '39, how do you fly it? What sorta technique do you use, BnZ or TnB, E fighting, flaps etc?

JamesBlonde888
05-08-2005, 08:13 AM
I use the P&C method. Pray and curse

VW-IceFire
05-08-2005, 09:05 AM
The P-39 still spins...but if you're a decent pilot then its rarely an issue. I held off 4 109s, a 110, and a 190 on UK-D last night (thanks red team - not much help) for quite some time...the P-39 was a better turner, I remembered that, and used that to keep them off balance. Till I totally ran out of energy and then it was all over...

JamesBlonde888
05-08-2005, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
[With the '39, how do you fly it? What sorta technique do you use, BnZ or TnB, E fighting, flaps etc?

I guess what I do is more E fighting. I think I mentioned before that thearmament of the '39 is a bit too innaccurate for BnZ not to mention the lateral instability, the rudders are just too sensitive for me but I did it successfully a couple of times. TnB isn't something I play around with unless the proverbial hits the industrial. I am still tryingo work out proper use of flaps and having a lot of fun experimenting (Not to mention parking my a/c inside the tailpipe of the enemy).

73GIAP_Milan
05-08-2005, 11:45 AM
P39 is'nt **** and ***** at all, i'm still flying it in the original IL2 and i stall/spin very very seldom.

I can turn with 109's, only problem i have is hitting something accurately since i don't really can see where my tracers go. Once i've got a tracking solution i can mostly finish it with all guns in a single blast up close.

Most nasty thing: I often blow only an elevator off the enemy plane, but that is a flaw in my aiming. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

P39 is good ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

MOhz
05-08-2005, 12:03 PM
Oh P39, give to me any day! If there is any plane in the Russian inventory that I will fly, then the P39 (also like Il2). Mainly I fly 190s, but when flying red then I try P39, it just rocks all the way. Maybe because I am used to 190s, I take it really gentally. I used to really have problems aiming with its slow cannon as well, but if you give it time and practice, you learn where to shoot when. Really it'S like suddenly waking up and knowing exactly what to do. Love it!

Blackdog5555
05-08-2005, 12:04 PM
The P39 would stall/spin in a climbing turn. The smart pilots wouldnt stall in a climb. Period. Easy solution. 5 of the top 10 aces in the soviet were P39 drivers. Fly the P400 or the Q10 and you are LW killer. The poorly informed believe that the P39 was a bad plane. Welly, It was not well suited for the SWP or as a high altitude long range escort. But, As a short range low altitude fighter it was pretty good. Much better then the LaGG. Cheers BD

Freelancer-1
05-08-2005, 12:21 PM
If you can tease a 109, 190 into a turn and stay on top of your flap managment, they are yours for the picking.

Take some time to learn the idiosyncrasies of your 37mm and it's not so hard to hit things. Main thing to remember is the cannon has a lot of loft so you will need some practice.

jugent
05-08-2005, 01:41 PM
The USAF thought it was so bad they gave it away or used it for gunnery practise

Yog_Shoggoth
05-08-2005, 02:56 PM
Now, if the patch was allready out, would you and so many others be discovering all of these great planes that have been sitting unused for so long?

carguy_
05-08-2005, 03:12 PM
In IL2 P39 wasn`t popular because its FM.Even now ppl don` like it.IMO it is the best VVS aircraft until `44 when Yak9U enters the scene.

Very similar to Spitfire with a difference of immortal nose it has - there`s no DM there.

P39 is good in everything and good pilots don`t have problems with getting kills with 37mm.

The engine positioning on the contrary to reality,is an advantage of P39.Even with grey/black smoke it holds on to normal performance for very long so seeing a fighting smoking P39 is normal.Pilots that have been forced to fly it since VEF days know how to make this plane more effective than any pre `44 Soviet plane.


It is the only plane in eastern front that can take on an equal fight with Me109G2.


PS.Yes,I do feel inclined to fly Me109.I have been flying Me109 through all good and bad IL2 days of it.I have seen all FM releases of it and have flown every one of them.I do not change planes because they`re better.I take what VEF host gives me be it Me109E4 or Me109G6 early, which maybe you don`t know,were the most undermodelled planes before Forgotten Battles.
Been flying them from the start,will be flying them to the end of flight simming.

F19_Olli72
05-08-2005, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by carguy_:
It is the only plane in eastern front that can take on an equal fight with Me109G2.


Nope, Mig 3U beats up 109 G2 pretty good too, specially high altitude its a LOT better than P-39 which is cr@p up high. Mig 3U can catch running 109 G2's better than P-39 as well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif At least imo.

VW-IceFire
05-08-2005, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by jugent:
The USAF thought it was so bad they gave it away or used it for gunnery practise
Actually they used it more than you give credit for...but the USAAF had different operational requirements.

In the Pacific, the first P-39s arrived with few instructions and only green pilots. They were initially used in New Guinea...where they were forced to fly to 20,000 feet (or so) to clear the Owen Stanley Mountains. At 20,000 feet the P-39s performance is terrible...the so called iron dog.

For the USAAF, the P-39 was not the fighter it needed. Nor was it for the RAF. They wanted and needed high flying fighters and escorts. The P-39 didn't do that...but it was a capable tactical fighter. It was used in the Med as a tactical fighter till late 1943 or 1944 (not sure exactly) and used in the PTO for a while as a ground pounder as well. The Russians used it as a fighter but at very low altitudes...escorting IL-2s and the like. Thats where its performance was best and thats where the Russians needed it most.

So if you so happen to be implying that it was not a capable fighter...it really depends on the operational requirements.

Blackdog5555
05-09-2005, 01:18 AM
Exactly IceFire. BTW it wasnt given away, it was called lend lease and the Ruskies were glad to get them as they were perfectly fitted for the Eastern Front's tactical requirements. Its true after the war that a few surplus P39s were used for target practice but everything was just surplus junk as the war was over. BTW, The Mig 3 was a very poor performer at low altitudes and had poor armament.

An exerpt from web search on P-39 ruskie aces!!

""In short, the Russian pilots flew the Airacobra as "air superiority fighters," and at the low to medium altitudes of air combat on the Eastern Front, they did so with considerable success, against German Fw 190s and Bf 109s. The 216th Fighter Division (later 9th Guards Fighter Division) flew Airacobras from August, 1942 to the end of the war in May, 1945 and counted 28 aces with at least 15 victories.

Flying the Lend-Lease equipment, for which every bullet was imported from the United States. the Aircobras followed one of two, long paths from upstate New York to the 9th GFD in southern Russia. One, through Canada, along the Alcan Highway and thence across Siberia. Or two, by ship to Iran, and over the Caucasus. Flying American equipment was a mixed blessing. The airplanes were as good (or better) as any Russian-made, but in the Stalinist era, carried a certain stigma. The leading Airacobra ace, Alexandr Pokryshkin, who finished the war with 59 aerial victories, was once denied a third award of the Hero of the Soviet Union, because that would have glorified foreign manufacturing.

In reading Attack of the Airacobras, one is struck by several aspects. First, a "can do" spirit that rivalled anything the Seabees did in the South Pacific, as Russian mechanics did their best to keep the American-made machines flying, thousands of miles from a supply of spare parts. Second, a somewhat stilted, Stalinist vocabulary and outlook, as when the author, Dmitriy Loza, described the "pilots' fervent desire to defeat the hated Fascists in the same way that the brave Soviet soldiers had at Stalingrad." Third, the piovtal role of Alexandr Pokryshkin himself, not just a high-scoring ace, but a division leader, aerial tactician, fighter pilot advocate in the dangerous councils of the wartime Soviet military.

Another unique practice of the Soviet Air Forces (VVS - Voyenno Vozdushnye Sily) was the renumbering and renaming of units with honorific titles. Thus the 216th Fighter Division (216 IAD) was renamed the 9th Guards Fighter Division in 1943, to honor their military successes. to this were later added the titles "Mariupol" and "Berlin." The three Fighter Regiments (IAP - Istrebitelnyj Avia Polk) of the 9th GFD included:

* 45th FR, later 100th GFR
* 16th GFR
* 298th FR, later 104th GFR

Leading Soviet Airacobra Aces
Pilot Victories P-39 Victories Regiment
Aleksandr I. Pokryshkin 59 48 9 GFD
Nikolay Gulaev 57 41 129 GFR
Grigori A. Rechkalov 56 50 16 GFR
Dimitriy B. Glinka 50 41 100 GFR
Vladimir I. Bobrov 43 * 104 GFR
Aleksey Smirnov 34 30 153 FR
Ivan I. Babak 33 32 16 GFR
Mikhail S. Komelkov 32 32 104 GFR
A. Klubov 31 27 16 GFR
Boris B. Glinka 31 31 16 GFR
A. Fedorov 24 * 16 GFR
V. Semenishin 23 * 104 GFR
K. Sukhov 22 * 16 GFR
P. Eremin 22 * 16 GFR
P. Kryukov 22 * 16 GFR
N. Chistov 19 * 16 GFR"""

end quote

GAU-8
05-09-2005, 03:37 AM
this my GENERAL thought on the aircraft..of course certain variable exist to change it somewhat..

1. online, its ALL I fly. unless i have to

2. dont "head on" shoot against any german aircraft. cant say that ive stopped that..oooer, MAAANY wangs lost . QWAK!

3. in the P-39 i have very little fear of any 109, or FW varient..its the pilot i wonder about. 109/190s are EASY to bag, if you got an INEXPERIENCED pilot in there. even if hes boominzoomin (does NOT apply to RALL/HEINZBAR/FISH/TX-SQDRN/JV-44/ etc...(you guys do your homewaork...grrr!)

4. FEAR ALL TA-152'S i encounter..expecially one that is good piloting with BnZ tactic
..call for back-up.even if its noobest of newbs

5.give it good leading, and when you think its enuff...then lead even more (usually to the point target is under the reticle frame and JUST out of vison.

6.keep cannon at 100 meters congergence

7. FLAT SPINS are EASY to get out of...its just the altitude that doesnt agree with you .

8.when entering a tight radius, flaps down and DECREASE prop pitch to ZERO momentarily! watch the 109 come screaming into gunsite, when before it was getting away....do turn prop pitch back up though..

9.fire from VERY close,..VERY CLOSE. learn scissors, and stall speeds. i cant tell how many times ive saved myself during scissoring a 109/190 on THE DECK (doin the same to me) and they plow into the ground, where as im just prop hangin upside down, rolling out of it.

10. play online with it a LOT, it takes a while to get the finesse of it. ive just come back from a 1-1/2 month hiatus, and i learning all over again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

my PREFERED aircraft is the YAK9-K. but she aint available in any full real servers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif so the P-39 is my next best choice.

73GIAP_Milan
05-09-2005, 05:26 AM
Originally posted by GAU-8:
2. dont "head on" shoot against any german aircraft. cant say that ive stopped that..oooer, MAAANY wangs lost . QWAK!

5.give it good leading, and when you think its enuff...then lead even more (usually to the point target is under the reticle frame and JUST out of vison.

6.keep cannon at 100 meters congergence

7. FLAT SPINS are EASY to get out of...its just the altitude that doesnt agree with you .

9.fire from VERY close,..VERY CLOSE.

The Head-on thingy; i can survive that quite well since the nose can take up a beating, just fire from a distance with the machineguns, most time you'll nail the 109's engine or just hit him enough to scare him.
Headons vs 190's are NOT advisable though, everyone knows why..

Can you explain the lead-thing a bit more? Maybe that is what i'm doing wrong, i see myself always doing too little damage.
Any Airacobra experts around who can add something to this?

Spins under 600M = Bail out

dadada1
05-09-2005, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
The main problem is a smoking p39 can almost run forever.

Yes the damage model is very supect with regard to engine/oil damage. If you get them alight then its good night Vienna, but I've witnessed one fly around for around 8 minutes railing thick black smoke then land back at base.