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Huxley_S
05-21-2007, 12:45 AM
How do experienced players avoid blackouts when dogfighting, or at least how do you cope with them?

Draughluin1
05-21-2007, 01:20 AM
Related to how many G's you are pulling. Just ease off the angle of banking in the turn and you'll soon see the light.

Huxley_S
05-21-2007, 01:59 AM
I always feel like I'm the only one blacking out... the guy on my six is sticking to me like glue and I'm in a word of darkness.

Is it the same for everyone or do you get less blackouts the more experienced you get?

leitmotiv
05-21-2007, 03:45 AM
I know this is trite, but try to avoid putting yourself in a desperate situation where you will have to pull Gs. Clever old tomcats, like Manfred, looked for people on the fringes who looked disorganized, and pounced. That's what I try to do.

MrMojok
05-21-2007, 04:29 AM
A lot of people just get really good at riding the edge of a blackout, and pulling back at the last moment. It's not that you are sufferring the effect of Gs more than they are... it sounds to me like you're just crossing over the line where the screen goes black, whereas they are easing off right before that.

mynameisroland
05-21-2007, 04:44 AM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
I always feel like I'm the only one blacking out... the guy on my six is sticking to me like glue and I'm in a word of darkness.

Is it the same for everyone or do you get less blackouts the more experienced you get?

You can ride the black out by throttling down while turning or by simply easing of and maintaining a high turn rate rather than a small turn radius. In a fast turn both pilots will approach black out often you can out turn planes like Spitfire IX or La5FN because their pilots will pull too tightly. If you can turn just on the grey out without slipping in to black out you have a big advantage.

major_setback
05-21-2007, 04:53 AM
I know this will sound strange, and I think there may be something in the game that's modelled wrongly, but you can actually 'pull through' some blackouts.
In a La7 you can sometimes (actually quite often) get rid of it by actually pulling harder on the stick (throttle at a minimum). It slows the plane a bit, which is probably why the sim releases the blackout, though it's unrealistic.

It only works if you have a moderate speed.
Use flaps ! Use even take-off flaps for a couple of seconds!

Philipscdrw
05-21-2007, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by major_setback:
I know this will sound strange, and I think there may be something in the game that's modelled wrongly, but you can actually 'pull through' some blackouts.
In a La7 you can sometimes (actually quite often) get rid of it by actually pulling harder on the stick (throttle at a minimum). It slows the plane a bit, which is probably why the sim releases the blackout, though it's unrealistic.

It only works if you have a moderate speed.
Use flaps ! Use even take-off flaps for a couple of seconds!

That might be realistic. G-force depends on two things: how fast you're going forwards, and how quickly you're rotating in pitch. (I think.) So if you're rotating faster by pulling back, but slowing down at the same time, you could expect the forces to be less.

I haven't experienced this myself though.

Bearcat99
05-21-2007, 06:15 AM
That is one factor that had a lot to do with why some pilots got more kills than others. Their physical stamina. There were a few pilots I read about who.. while their buddies were out trying to score and get drunk every night they weren't flying were getting their rest and working out. It showed too... although there were some pilots out there who regularly tied one on and were still successful.....

NSAdonis85
05-21-2007, 06:23 AM
I for one, never keep a high G turn, I vary it. It's like ping pong, first, I pull hard enough, and when on the edge of a blackout, just ease off a bit....oh, and flaps and throttle changes too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bearcat99
05-21-2007, 06:57 AM
The thing that kind of gets me.. and it's actually pretty nice.. is that sometimes you can kind of.. slide into the blackout... and ride the gray.. other times... you just... black out. Sometuimes your vision is black.. but you can still control the plane somewhat.... when you wake up you may be straight & level or out of that turn... other times you just go out and straight in.. I think thats really cool.

major_setback
05-21-2007, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by NSAdonis85:
I for one, never keep a high G turn, I vary it. It's like ping pong, first, I pull hard enough, and when on the edge of a blackout, just ease off a bit....oh, and flaps and throttle changes too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Yes , I noticed that too: if you ease off the turn a little bit you can pull a really hard turn just a little later (with flaps).

Flying_Mex
05-21-2007, 08:22 AM
Another thing that helps is to try and keep the turns/manouvers to one axis. It is far easier to black out while using elevators AND aelerons (like in doing a barrel roll) than it is to using the elevators.

Of course, if someone is on your six and you are trying to evade, using them both might be your only choice...at which point then you have to watch out for what the others have mentioned.

Huxley_S
05-21-2007, 09:06 AM
In a fast turn both pilots will approach black out often you can out turn planes like Spitfire IX or La5FN because their pilots will pull too tightly.

I'm certainly having the most problems in the Spit IX and this maybe a lot to do with the lack of a combat flaps setting. Am I right that you can map flaps to a slider or rotary and vary the flaps? Full flaps doesn't seem like a sensible option in a dogfight. How did real Spit pilots use their flaps?

Switching to a Russian plane like the Yak 3 I have found it is much easier to avoid the blackouts in tight turns, because of the combat flaps.

major_setback
05-21-2007, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In a fast turn both pilots will approach black out often you can out turn planes like Spitfire IX or La5FN because their pilots will pull too tightly.

I'm certainly having the most problems in the Spit IX and this maybe a lot to do with the lack of a combat flaps setting. Am I right that you can map flaps to a slider or rotary and vary the flaps? Full flaps doesn't seem like a sensible option in a dogfight. How did real Spit pilots use their flaps?

Switching to a Russian plane like the Yak 3 I have found it is much easier to avoid the blackouts in tight turns, because of the combat flaps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Not sure, but I use flaps for just a few seconds in a Spitfire, and then only at slow speed. At a low altitude and slow speed though I sometimes leave them down longer, not more than 4-5 seconds though.

It might not be historically correct, but if everyone else is doing it, and you want to beat the blackout...

BrotherVoodoo
05-21-2007, 02:33 PM
Don't drink on a empty stomach and you should be fine.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
When you see the screen just start to fade you have to let off the G's right away or be ready for a nap. If you start to fall asleep and notice you have no control and are heading for mother earth, trim up your elevator to keep from becomming a lawn dart. Like BC mentioned sometimes you can "ride the fade" with experience.

shahram177
05-21-2007, 02:51 PM
Ok this is what you do, pull pack till you stat blacking out, as you get close push dow give some -G's and pull up again.
Some times it works.

EiZ0N
05-21-2007, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by BrotherVoodoo:
Don't drink on a empty stomach and you should be fine.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
When you see the screen just start to fade you have to let off the G's right away or be ready for a nap. If you start to fall asleep and notice you have no control and are heading for mother earth, trim up your elevator to keep from becomming a lawn dart. Like BC mentioned sometimes you can "ride the fade" with experience.
You can trim the plane whilst blacked out? Nice cheat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Klemm.co
05-21-2007, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by EiZ0N:
You can trim the plane whilst blacked out? Nice cheat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
It is. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
When you move the joystick while blacked out it also moves visually in the cockpit, it just hasnt got any effect.
I have also found that i can cut off the tail of IL-2 1st Model with the Me-109's propeller.
Might be working with the Hurricane too, had that happen to him on some occasions. Other planes might as well be affected, but i didnt check them out.
I thought that this was fixed long ago? (Though it isnt that unrealistic- it did happen. The prop though wasnt in a good condition afterwards http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif )

Henkie327
05-21-2007, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
I always feel like I'm the only one blacking out... the guy on my six is sticking to me like glue and I'm in a word of darkness.

Is it the same for everyone or do you get less blackouts the more experienced you get?

Don't know the situation, but you must see the attacker always.

Maybe you started flying too fast, before you go into a max G break turn? And the guy on your six is maybe flying a lot slower (if you watch him you can judge closure). If the guy is flying slower, then maybe he doesn't even have the blackout effects that you are suffering from.

Or maybe the guy behind you is still very fast, but pulls up in yoyo or zoom climb, then he loses speed but gains alt without blacking out, while still staying in position of advantage.

Basically you could try flying a bit slower before you pull G's.

Besides a max break turn is not always nescessary either. You can sometimes defeat an incoming bandit by barrel rolling down below his nose, to disappear from sight. All the while you can keep sight of him ofcourse. Just a short barrel roll will cost you not much energy and will less likely cause you to black out. But if you disappear below the attackers nose, he will lose sight of you and if he's fast (watch closure) he will never be able to follow this move. Then the bandit will just fly past very fast and pull up or he will try to slow down while flying past. In the last case you can shoot him in the back http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Freelancer-1
05-21-2007, 04:18 PM
If you stay away from servers that have externals enabled you will find the problem pretty much cures itself http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

That said, different planes have the pilot sitting in different spots relative to their center of gravities. That can make a big difference in the point at which you black out.

Finally, learn to fly in the gray. Right at the edge of a black out. Takes practice but can be very rewarding.

MB_Avro_UK
05-21-2007, 05:19 PM
Hi all,

If you are short and squat, black-outs should be less of a problem. Stuka pilots were selected to be short and squat.

I am 6 feet tall and slim. I black-out fairly quickly compared to my squadmate who is 5 feet 3 inches tall and almost 4 feet wide.

But the girls don't like him so there are always downsides to everything.

Hope this helps the analysis.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Jaws2002
05-21-2007, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In a fast turn both pilots will approach black out often you can out turn planes like Spitfire IX or La5FN because their pilots will pull too tightly.

I'm certainly having the most problems in the Spit IX and this maybe a lot to do with the lack of a combat flaps setting. Am I right that you can map flaps to a slider or rotary and vary the flaps? Full flaps doesn't seem like a sensible option in a dogfight. How did real Spit pilots use their flaps?

Switching to a Russian plane like the Yak 3 I have found it is much easier to avoid the blackouts in tight turns, because of the combat flaps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The spitfire has excelent instantaneous and high speed turn. you black out easier because you can turn easier. I engage many times in turning against spits while flying 190 and i try to do it at high speed exactly because of the blackout. At high speed if the spit turns faster then me he'll blackout faster then me. As most people said it here already when you start to gray out you easy the turn a bit.

You can put your flaps on a slider if you want.They work in every plane, historical or not. In real life the spitfire only had landing flaps. I remember reading an article about a bunch of spit mkV's sent to Malta on an aircraft carrier. when they got close enough to fly to malta they got them ready for take off, lowered the flaps to landing position, placed some wood blocks between the flaps and the wing and raised the flaps. they trapped the wood pieces there and that would keep the flaps to some 30 degrees deflected to help with the take off. after take off they would lower the flaps to let the wood blocks fall and then raise them all the way .

Back then the spitfire pilots (like most pilots in ww2) didn't use flaps in combat.

slappedsilly
05-21-2007, 06:13 PM
If I have to pull hard G's to get away, I try to pull left/right and UP. If you black out while going up, you at least won't kill yourself by plowing into the ground. If the enemy is coming in fast try throwing on the breaks (flaps, and pulling up slightly) this will make him pass you and you might even get to put a few bullets in him http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

BrotherVoodoo
05-21-2007, 06:24 PM
You can trim the plane whilst blacked out? Nice cheat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]

I suppose some would think it is a cheat but consider this. I noticed that trimming the elevator does not work unless you trim before you actually black out. There is a point that you cannot trim, it seems to be the last control you can give input to before actually going to sleep. You cannot trim while alseep. I would think this is realistic, wouldn't you trim up before you went to sleep if you could IRL? If you could trim while asleep I would certainly consider that a cheat, but that isn't the case in the game.

msalama
05-22-2007, 02:50 AM
other times you just go out and straight in.. I think thats really cool.

Cool? Well yes and http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif at the same time IMO http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

A case in point: Now I'm usually a bombers / GAAC man, but still fly an occasional fighter over @ AW if the situation calls for it. So OK, the last two I've screwed up badly (not all of them are like that though) have both ended the same way, i.e. me going steeply downstairs from approx. 4Km AGL as fast as the crate can take it (650-750KmphIAS or so w/ the common VVS types) followed by an attempt in levelling the bastage out. The result: a total blackout for 30 secs. or so & a smoking hole in the ground http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

But it's definitely me not the crate though! It's just that adjusting to the little ones after having lugged those (comparatively speaking) heavies around can be a bit tricky, that's all... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

But every cloud has a silver lining still, in that at least Sergei_ & RBD_Pavel got a good laff out of those screwups if nothing else http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif