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View Full Version : Will the Hurricane in BoB SoW be better than in il2?



MB_Avro_UK
02-28-2008, 05:26 PM
Hi all,

The reason I ask is that the Hurricane in il2 is a bit of a challenge to dogfight with.

In the Battle of Britain (1940) the Hurricane was regarded by RAF pilots as similar to the Spitfire. Some RAF pilots preferred the Hurricane to the Spitfire.

Ok..the Mk 1 Hurricane in il2 is an underpowered 1938 version that was sent to Finland.

If modelled correctly, we may find a number of Hurricane fans in BoB SoW??

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

TheGozr
02-28-2008, 07:12 PM
Some RAF pilots preferred the Hurricane to the Spitfire. 1% maybe during the nice days... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

steiner562
02-28-2008, 07:27 PM
She is not that bad IMO in IL2,also I think you answered your question in your orginal posthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bearcat99
02-28-2008, 08:17 PM
I think that BoB will be better than FB.... and FB.. warts and all is still the top ddog of WWII sims IMhO.

Col.BBQ
02-28-2008, 09:41 PM
You forget that the RAF pilots were referring to the Spitfire I and II versions, not the Vs and the later ons.

VW-IceFire
02-28-2008, 10:06 PM
I think the RAF SoW: BoB Hurricane I will be somewhere in between the Hurricane I we have in IL-2 and the Hurricane II. Just a guess...performance did improve somewhat...but it was definitely the Hurricanes numbers that made up the biggest difference.

Ba5tard5word
02-29-2008, 01:26 AM
I'm pretty sure Hurricanes were stiffer to control than, say, a Spitfire, and they were definitely rather slower. I actually like them in Il2, and they make tough opponents.

Capt.LoneRanger
02-29-2008, 01:50 AM
What's wrong with the Hurri in IL2? It's one of my favourite planes in the game and I'm really looking forward to fly it in the BoB.

VV_Holdenb
02-29-2008, 02:10 AM
wot Capt.LoneRanger said http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

JG53Frankyboy
02-29-2008, 03:06 AM
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/hurricane/hurricane-I.html

looking forward if Maddox will model 100octan fuel for the Merlin IIIs (to allow 12lb/sq.in. boost)of the Hurri and Spit... if yes, no Axis plane should be flown at least below 10.000 feet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

accordiing to the charts of the link above and one of a Bf109E-3 with DB601Aa:

at SL, a Hurri6,25lb is at 425km/h, Hurri12lb is at 468km/h , Bf109E is at 460km/h

at 2000m, a Hurri6,25lb is at 458km/h, Hurri12lb is at 502km/h , Bf109E is at 500km/h

at 3000m, a Hurri6,25lb is at 472km/h, Hurri12lb is at 521km/h , Bf109E is at 520km/h

at 5000m, a Hurri6,25lb is at 510km/h, Hurri12lb is at 520km/h , Bf109E is at 555km/h

just to compare with:
a Spitfire I with 12lb/sq.in. boost is at SL 505km/h and at 3800m (FTH) 575km/h !!
-> http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-I-rae-12lbs.jpg


here is the mentioned 109 chart btw:
http://www.franky.fliegerhospital.de/Leistung%20Bf109E-3.jpg


IF you use il2compare as a gamereference (what, if you want to have it exactly, have to be checked if you can reach the given datas also in game !!) the ingame Hurri I is not so far away (around 5-10km/h , depends on height) from the Hurri I with 6,25lb.............

a Hurri I with 12lb will be superiour over a Bf109E till 10.000feet in SoW:BoB i guess !
same or better speed, better turn, better or same climb i guess, more rugged construction, the 8x.303cal will "work" in the SoW engine on the DM of the Bf109E very well i also guess http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif .

and my online experience is, if you not have a much slower plane, the better turn often gives you the upper hand in the typical low level online dogfight shootout http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

the Bf109E in SoW:BoB will be an ambush plane , nothing to fight out it in a knifefight against the Hurri and for sure not the Spit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

fortunatly the Axis will have a flyable Ju88A-1 to have fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
02-29-2008, 04:41 AM
Don't you realize some oddities about your comparrison-tables?

The British planes are able to fly to their actual limit, the 109 are only able to achieve speeds in terms of 5 or 10 kph-steps. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I am not an expert on the 109, but... on 8.2.39 the Luftwaffe tested a 109E3 and it was able to achieve 467 km/h fully armed:
http://kurfurst.allaboutwarfare.com/Performance_tests/1...92_E3_MP16feb39.html (http://kurfurst.allaboutwarfare.com/Performance_tests/109E_MP_E3_1792/WNr1792_E3_MP16feb39.html)

Since SL-values are interpolated anyway, I doubt there is much of an advantage on either side left.

The official data-profile even promises a speed of roughly 500kph at SL with optimum conditions and boost.

JG53Frankyboy
02-29-2008, 04:53 AM
you are totaly correct !

as always, it will depend what source the Maddox team will choose to modell their game planes..................


anyway, a Hurri I with 12lb boost will be a tough oponent to a Bf109E till 10000feet, whatever sources Maddox will use i guess http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

danjama
02-29-2008, 05:09 AM
hurricane climbing speed/accel sucks, simple, but i think that is as it should be. it's good at everything else.

as for spit, as said already it would have been likened to the underpowered early mk1's with possible fixed pitch prop, and also the mk2's, so that's probably about right.

i dont have a problem with the spit or hurri as they are, and cant wait to fly both in BoB.

TgD Thunderbolt56
02-29-2008, 05:43 AM
Will the Hurricane in BoB SoW be better than in il2?


Of course it will be. The improved DM will make it better simply by proxy. Higher LOD's, better damage model and a fresh, new engine.

It'll be better. It may not handle or perform better, but it will be better...be sure.

WOLFMondo
02-29-2008, 05:47 AM
Sod the Hurricane, how will the Beaufighter compare to IL2's?

Kurfurst__
02-29-2008, 06:06 AM
The 460/555 kph speed/climb figures for the 109E taken from the 109E Kennblatt / shown in comparison on the Williams articles are for the performance achieved at 30-min ratings. And keep in mind that the figures from the 16 feb 1939 E3 performance test on my site are not corrected for the guaranteed engine output yet ('Diese Geschwindigkeiten sind auf Normaltemperatur und richtige Ladedruckreglereinstellung jedoch nich auf Garantieleistung des Motors umgerechnet.).

At a comparable 5-min ratings (ie. 1,3 or 1,35ata), the maximum speed was 500 km/h at SL, 570 at rated altitude. Ie. about as fast as the Spitfires with 100 octane and +12 lbs boost, and faster than the Spits fuelled with 87 octane at +6.25 boost at low altitude, and faster than any Hurri I or II (100 or 87 octane) at any altitude.

The Emil also had a special short period (1 min) rating at low altitudes - at 1,40 or 1,45ata, ie. 1100 or 1175 PS output. I have no speed figures for this rating, but definietely a lot faster (at low altitude, where this boost could be used) than 500 kph.

I believe the Hurricane`s good points were its easy landing characteristics (wide undercarriage, low stall speeds), good rolling qualities, spacious cocpit and ruggedness, which is why it was so much liked by inexperienced pilots, who might find a higher performance plane more handful. It was also the best turner of all fighters particapting in the Battle of Britain.

BWaltteri
02-29-2008, 06:06 AM
Brewster is better than Hurricane so what to complain.

Manu-6S
02-29-2008, 06:29 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
I believe the Hurricane`s good points were its easy landing characteristics (wide undercarriage, low stall speeds), good rolling qualities, spacious cocpit and ruggedness, which is why it was so much liked by inexperienced pilots, who might find a higher performance plane more handful. It was also the best turner of all fighters particapting in the Battle of Britain.

And a much better weapon platform than the Spit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
In the Battle of Britain (1940) the Hurricane was regarded by RAF pilots as similar to the Spitfire. Some RAF pilots preferred the Hurricane to the Spitfire.

If modelled correctly, we may find a number of Hurricane fans in BoB SoW??


Why should the Hurricane be undermodelled? Can't it be the Hurri is fine and the "other" is a little overmodelled? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

JG53Frankyboy
02-29-2008, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
...............................

At a comparable 5-min ratings (ie. 1,3 or 1,35ata), the maximum speed was 500 km/h at SL, 570 at rated altitude. Ie. about as fast as the Spitfires with 100 octane and +12 lbs boost, and faster than the Spits fuelled with 87 octane at +6.25 boost at low altitude, and faster than any Hurri I or II (100 or 87 octane) at any altitude.

The Emil also had a special short period (1 min) rating at low altitudes - at 1,40 or 1,45ata, ie. 1100 or 1175 PS output. I have no speed figures for this rating, but definietely a lot faster (at low altitude, where this boost could be used) than 500 kph.


...................


well, this all sounds very fine for SoW 109E pilots...... we will see http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kurfurst__
02-29-2008, 07:58 AM
BTW, does anyone know if there will be both CSP and two-pitch propeller versions of the two RAF fighters, or only one version..?

JG53Frankyboy
02-29-2008, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
BTW, does anyone know if there will be both CSP and two-pitch propeller versions of the two RAF fighters, or only one version..?

outside the Maddox tema ?? highly doubtfull...............

i guess there will be one version of every fghter in SoW:BoB.

as best the most common - even here in the community about the most common versions will propably not everyone be on the same opinion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

for me personally that would be:
Hurricane Ia and Spitfire Ia with CSP, 12lb/sq.in. boost , full armour protection

Bf109E-4 , DB601Aa,only manual propeller, headarmour but no frontarmour , the WIP pictures showed so far Maddox is planning the early, more rounded canopy.

Bf110C-4, means also MG-FF/M http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
no armour !

for 109 and 110 the -/B armament option !

Cr.42 one 12,7mm and one 7,7mm SAFAT
the Biplane and the G.50 both with no armour.


thats at least my information summary http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

major_setback
02-29-2008, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:


.....for 109 and 110 the -/B armament option !.....


What's the 'B armament option'? I have no knowledge of the armament options.

VMF-214_HaVoK
02-29-2008, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Hi all,

The reason I ask is that the Hurricane in il2 is a bit of a challenge to dogfight with.

In the Battle of Britain (1940) the Hurricane was regarded by RAF pilots as similar to the Spitfire. Some RAF pilots preferred the Hurricane to the Spitfire.

Ok..the Mk 1 Hurricane in il2 is an underpowered 1938 version that was sent to Finland.

If modelled correctly, we may find a number of Hurricane fans in BoB SoW??

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Im not trying to start an argument with you and mean no disrespect, but I think the Hurricane in this sim is a darn fine aircraft and possible a tad too good when compared to a 109E. It holds up very well vs 109Fs too. Its a strong rugged aircraft with good armament. It does lack in the overall speed and climb rates but that is historically accurate.

When you say modeled correctly what exactly do you feel needs corrected?

S!

JG53Frankyboy
02-29-2008, 01:44 PM
a Bf109E-4/B or Bf110C-4/B (other sources say this was a Bf110C-7 !) are the fighterbomber "versions" of these planes - as already in IL2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
important for later times in the BoB when every german fightergroup had to use one of its three squadrons as fighterbombers.
also for the Erp.Grp. 210 !!
and II(Schl)/LG2

JG53Frankyboy
02-29-2008, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
....................a tad too good when compared to a 109E. It holds up very well vs 109Fs too. .................


not in my online experience - in the COOP war VOW and on the WoP server, Hurricane Is mostly got slaughtered when faced agaisnt Bf109E.........

leitmotiv
02-29-2008, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Hi all,

The reason I ask is that the Hurricane in il2 is a bit of a challenge to dogfight with.

In the Battle of Britain (1940) the Hurricane was regarded by RAF pilots as similar to the Spitfire. Some RAF pilots preferred the Hurricane to the Spitfire.

Ok..the Mk 1 Hurricane in il2 is an underpowered 1938 version that was sent to Finland.

If modelled correctly, we may find a number of Hurricane fans in BoB SoW??

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Im not trying to start an argument with you and mean no disrespect, but I think the Hurricane in this sim is a darn fine aircraft and possible a tad too good when compared to a 109E. It holds up very well vs 109Fs too. Its a strong rugged aircraft with good armament. It does lack in the overall speed and climb rates but that is historically accurate.

When you say modeled correctly what exactly do you feel needs corrected?

S! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He means the summer 1940, British, UK-based standard with metal wings, Rotol constant speed prop, and 100 octane fuel. The Finnish version did not have these goodies.

MB_Avro_UK
02-29-2008, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Hi all,

The reason I ask is that the Hurricane in il2 is a bit of a challenge to dogfight with.

In the Battle of Britain (1940) the Hurricane was regarded by RAF pilots as similar to the Spitfire. Some RAF pilots preferred the Hurricane to the Spitfire.

Ok..the Mk 1 Hurricane in il2 is an underpowered 1938 version that was sent to Finland.

If modelled correctly, we may find a number of Hurricane fans in BoB SoW??

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Im not trying to start an argument with you and mean no disrespect, but I think the Hurricane in this sim is a darn fine aircraft and possible a tad too good when compared to a 109E. It holds up very well vs 109Fs too. Its a strong rugged aircraft with good armament. It does lack in the overall speed and climb rates but that is historically accurate.

When you say modeled correctly what exactly do you feel needs corrected?

S! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Havok,

No offence taken. But just to clarify, I'm refering to the 1938 Mk I Hurricane which on the plane sets is listed as an axis aircraft as it was supplied to Finland.

The Mk II however is a far better plane but not 1940 IIRC.

If you are aware of this anyway please ignore http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

mortoma
02-29-2008, 06:55 PM
Performance aside, the real Hurri was a good bit more difficult to fly in RL from what I've read. The one we have in game is ridiculously easy to fly. I have more trouble piloting shopping carts at my local grocery........

leitmotiv
02-29-2008, 07:08 PM
I liked the way you had to retrim it for pitch every time you changed speed just like the real airplane. In THE HURRICANE AT WAR from the '70's there was a critique of the H by a B of B pilot. He noted that, as well as suffering from negative G cut-out, it also suffered from positive G cut-out when a pilot abruptly yanked back on the stick. Nobody has ever modeled this in a flight sim Hur.

MB_Avro_UK
02-29-2008, 07:27 PM
Hi all,

Just over 60% of the RAF's fighters in 1940 during the BoB were Hurricanes.

The Hurricanes did rather well and I hope that the FM in BoB SoW reflects this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Jaws2002
02-29-2008, 09:11 PM
You can't expect to have the same results as in real life. We know everything about the enemy plane and don't die if we screw up.

Both sides will get a lot more different results from what it was back then.
Our virtual RAF will have extremely well trained pilots that won't fly the obsolete and rigid formations the real RAF flew. on the other hand Luftwaffe will not have to put up with Goering and Hitler and most likely will have more fuel to fight the British then those guys had back then.