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stalkervision
11-05-2009, 06:00 AM
Never knew this existed. What is the luftwaffe had these in the Battle of Britain equiped with db engines instead of the me-110?


http://www.militaryfactory.com....asp?aircraft_id=573 (http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=573)

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/fockewulf-fw187_2.jpg

roybaty
11-05-2009, 06:17 AM
Isn't this in the game?

Gammelpreusse
11-05-2009, 07:23 AM
It's not.

It's a bit of the german Whirlwind. A highly capable plane that got pushed back due to politics in favor of Messerschmitt. Opinions from pilots using it in Scandinavia were full of praise.

Bremspropeller
11-05-2009, 08:18 AM
Teh pwn.

DIRTY-MAC
11-05-2009, 08:51 AM
Some were operational in Norway if i remembered correctly.

Heliopause
11-05-2009, 11:35 AM
It appears to have been a unit in Denmark at the airfield of Vearlöse(Kopenhagen). Only a small number though.
Before that they where used to give some protection for the Focke Wulf factories near/at Bremen.

Daiichidoku
11-05-2009, 11:41 AM
Willy Knifesmith & Co. really loused things up for better designs

Fw 187-Bf 110
He 100-Bf 109
He 280-Me 262

yuuppers
11-05-2009, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Heliopause:
It appears to have been a unit in Denmark at the airfield of Vearlöse(Kopenhagen). Only a small number though.
Before that they where used to give some protection for the Focke Wulf factories near/at Bremen.

They went to Norway first and when excellent reports were filed they were recalled to Denmark.

RSS-Martin
11-05-2009, 12:21 PM
Well being buddy buddy with the party bigwigs got Willy all the contracts he needed, to the disadvantage of his competitors.

stalkervision
11-05-2009, 01:13 PM
Bad choice. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

robtek1957
11-05-2009, 01:24 PM
Those 3 Messerschmidts had one, very important, reason to be prefered: they were better suited for mass-production, easier to build and because of that cheaper.
Better to have 5 BF109 than 3 He100 i.e.

And, why shouldn't one take the second best plane when one already has the best pilots??

AndyJWest
11-05-2009, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by robtek1957:
Those 3 Messerschmidts had one, very important, reason to be prefered: they were better suited for mass-production, easier to build and because of that cheaper.
Better to have 5 BF109 than 3 He100 i.e.

And, why shouldn't one take the second best plane when one already has the best pilots??

Now there's a non-sequitur if ever I saw one.

robtek1957
11-05-2009, 02:10 PM
Because of what????
Arguments, not slogans :-D

horseback
11-05-2009, 03:21 PM
Some of this is woulda-coulda-shoulda stuff; IF this or that aircraft had entered production, it MIGHT have been more successful.

It might also have been less effective than the 110 overall. How was it in the bomber destroyer role? Nightfighting? Ground attack? The 110 gets a lot of bad press because it turned out not to have been a very effective long range escort, but it did turn out to be very useful in many roles. Would the Falke have been as adaptable?

We'll never know, but someone is going to sell a lot of books and/or magazine articles by speculating about it.

cheers

horseback

jarink
11-05-2009, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by robtek1957:
Those 3 Messerschmidts had one, very important, reason to be prefered: they were better suited for mass-production, easier to build and because of that cheaper.
Better to have 5 BF109 than 3 He100 i.e.

The problem with that argument is that the Nazi leaders were infamous (especially later in the war) for approving all manner of military projects that, while very advanced, were very difficult and/or costly to manufacture (Tiger tanks, anyone? There were only about 1,300 of them produced during the entire war.)

Bremspropeller
11-05-2009, 05:13 PM
Those 3 Messerschmi<span class="ev_code_RED">t</span>ts had one, very important, reason to be prefered: they were better suited for mass-production, easier to build and because of that cheaper.

Any problem can be sorted out, given enough time and manpower - the Me 210 is a good example for that.

Remember the troubeled test- and introduction-phase of the Fw 190?
They wanted to saw-off the 190, and had it not been for Lt. Borris and his flight-test team, the Fw 190 would very propably have made another nice "what if"-story.
"Fortune" had it that the pilots and technicians involved in this project insisted on carrying on and fixing the problems, rather than saving Willy's fighter-monopole.

It ain't a sectret that Milch and Heinkel weren't exactly best friends and that Willy and Milch got along rather nicely.

Given enough time to finish it's detail-design, the Fw 187 would have made a better fighter than the 110 and it most propably would have served just as well in all the other roles the 110 was used for.

Remember that the 110's early use as ground-attack fighter was partially caused by it's less than stellar air-to-air record (in the west).

yuuppers
11-05-2009, 05:59 PM
Lots of pics
http://www.luftwaffephotos.com/lfw1872.htm

CloCloZ
11-07-2009, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by horseback:
Some of this is woulda-coulda-shoulda stuff; IF this or that aircraft had entered production, it MIGHT have been more successful.

It might also have been less effective than the 110 overall. How was it in the bomber destroyer role? Nightfighting? Ground attack? The 110 gets a lot of bad press because it turned out not to have been a very effective long range escort, but it did turn out to be very useful in many roles. Would the Falke have been as adaptable?

We'll never know, but someone is going to sell a lot of books and/or magazine articles by speculating about it.

cheers

horseback

I fully agree.
Using, as it's usually done, unarmed prototypes' performance data and "enthusiastic tales" by pilots (sometimes even factory test pilots) is a good way to write and sell books, not to rewrite history.

Moreover, that reminds me some other Kurt Tank's mythological and not very likely story such as his "escape from Mustangs" flying Ta-152 ...

Bremspropeller
11-07-2009, 04:54 PM
Using, as it's usually done, unarmed prototypes' performance data and "enthusiastic tales" by pilots (sometimes even factory test pilots) is a good way to write and sell books, not to rewrite history.

I wonder who's trying to re-wirite history.

horseback
11-07-2009, 06:14 PM
Rewrite history?

Just think what the Miles-Baker fighters might have done had the MoD not blackballed them at the behest of Supermarine and Hawker...

Or what the prognosticators might have written if say, the XP-39 program were discontinued before the Army Air Corps decided to strip it of its turbosupercharger and add some armor and other changes--why, that little Bell fighter design could have shortened the war if only the bureaucrats in the Army had been as farsighted as we are ...

...yadyadayada.

See? works for Allied aircraft too.

cheers

horseback