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Bo_Nidle
01-25-2008, 09:09 AM
A friend of mine has a brother who lives in Australia.He got himself a none-speaking part in "The Pacific" which is the follow-up to "Band of Brothers".

This is one of the behind the scenes photos he took:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/thepacific.jpg

His brother was a US Marine in the production and enjoyed every minute of it.

Looking at this and the other pictures I think this is going to be every bit as good as the legendary "Band of Brothers".

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 09:51 AM
Yes, more Spielberg/Hanks triumphalism. Eastwood wrote the last word on the late Pacific War with his excellent two films of a year ago. A really interesting series would have concentrated on the "backs to the wall" period, and the now almost forgotten defense of Wake Island and the Philippines through the arduous carrier battles of 1942. But, no, we will get more of the same we received in B OF BROTHERS and RYAN. There was no greater test of the American character than the lost hope defense of the Philippines, and now those soldiers, and the soldiers of the Philippines army are practically forgotten.

Bewolf
01-25-2008, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Yes, more Spielberg/Hanks triumphalism. Eastwood wrote the last word on the late Pacific War with his excellent two films of a year ago. A really interesting series would have concentrated on the "backs to the wall" period, and the now almost forgotten defense of Wake Island and the Philippines through the arduous carrier battles of 1942. But, no, we will get more of the same we received in B OF BROTHERS and RYAN. There was no greater test of the American character than the lost hope defense of the Philippines, and now those soldiers, and the soldiers of the Philippines army are practically forgotten.

I agree. I'd rather see a series showing the "beginning" of american involvement, the Philippines, Wake and the likes, the med and italy on the other side of the globe.

This stuff here has been done to death.



.....I'll certainly watch it anways.

roybaty
01-25-2008, 10:00 AM
While I agree with you leitmotiv the tone of your post is a bit...trying to find a word... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I personally would love to see a drama based on the early years of the Flying Tiger's.

crazyivan1970
01-25-2008, 10:13 AM
I just love when people bash something and watch it over and over at the same time... I bet leitmotiv watched BOB and SPR like 10 times and cant get enough of it... but hey, bashing is fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bo_Nidle
01-25-2008, 10:16 AM
I don't think it will be confined to the late Pacific. I have seen other photos showing actors in early marine kit with Springfield '03 rifles and no helmet covers riding in standard landing-craft as well as other pictures showing them with M1 Garands and helmet covers in LVT's.

Besides that, if anyone can name a better TV series covering WW2 US soldiers than BoB I'd like to know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

SeaFireLIV
01-25-2008, 10:30 AM
I`ll certainly be watching it.

But I hope one day that a British experience of the war series will be done and even a Russian perspective of the war from the early years of desperate defensive.

There is so much to find out that`s not only spectacular (even more so than the US stuff), but terrible as well.

We should know of it. After this one, time for a different nationality.

Breeze147
01-25-2008, 10:39 AM
A study should be done on how many Brits between the ages of 65 and 61 are half-American.


J/K oops didn't mean it don't get upset keep your knickers straight bangers and mash bangers and mash wink wink

Messaschnitzel
01-25-2008, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:

and the soldiers of the Philippines army are practically forgotten.

There is a very large Filipino American population living in Northern CA. I have met or worked with a good number of WW2 vets that served alongside the U.S. troops during that time. One thing that the Filipinos still resent is that their common enemy Japan, received more help and money to rebuild their country from the U.S. than the Philippines did after the war.

The Filipinos have a very strong sense of extended family that is constantly emphasized. You are expected to support and be supported by this network at all times. This is called "utang na loob" in Tagalog, which roughly translates to "obligation to the family". This is why the Filipinos were such reliable and effective allies during the war because they considered the U.S. to be part of the "family".

Imagine that your friend, with whom you fought alongside with in a hard won fight would move in the aftermath to help the opposing guys first with their wounds before giving you less attention than the opponents received.

If there are any people that can immediately fit in and become "Americans", it is the Filipinos. English is taught from grades 2-12. Add to that a good, effective education, and you have a productive and patriotic potential citizen.

As a side note, if you wish to study the Filipino martial arts, then the Bay Area of N. Ca., and also S. CA. are a good place look because of the long time Filipino American presence.

harryklein66
01-25-2008, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
even a Russian perspective of the war from the early years of desperate defensive.

There is the "shtrafbat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaTLvS07qrY)" mini serie.
although it did'nt take place in the early years of war.

Shtrafbat at IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0425715/)

X32Wright
01-25-2008, 11:08 AM
Yes I too would like to see the times before the war specially when Gen.Mcarthur was in the Philippines prior to Dec 8, 1941 attck when he had 9 hours of warning and did nothing!

Please read 'The Eagle and the Rising Sun'

http://www.amazon.com/Eagle-Rising-Sun-Japanese-America...lcanal/dp/0393049248 (http://www.amazon.com/Eagle-Rising-Sun-Japanese-American-Guadalcanal/dp/0393049248)

It shows you everything form how there was enough warning for Pearl Harbor to how McArthur abandoned Gen.Weinwright IV to fend for himself in Bataan as well as how Gen.McArthur didnt let his Air Force take off (through is inaction and indecision) and allowed it to be bombed and straffed on the ground.

jadger
01-25-2008, 11:25 AM
is this one gonna have magic grenades like BOB where an American can dive two feet from a grenade and not get injured, and Germans (this one Japanese) fall like preteen girls at a Justin Timberlake concert.

SeaFireLIV
01-25-2008, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by jadger:
is this one gonna have magic grenades like BOB where an American can dive two feet from a grenade and not get injured, and Germans (this one Japanese) fall like preteen girls at a Justin Timberlake concert.

eh?

How many grenades have you had thrown at you. i actually read one account where a grenade blew up right next to a GI in Somalia (I think it was) black hawk down and didn`t touch him. Sometimes, if you`re lucky (you`re low, the grenade blows in a slight ditch or some such) it can go off right next to you and evrything flies over head.

How are soldiers supoosed to fall when shot. Do German soldiers fall differently to allied?

A rather spiteful little post, I think.

jadger
01-25-2008, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jadger:
is this one gonna have magic grenades like BOB where an American can dive two feet from a grenade and not get injured, and Germans (this one Japanese) fall like preteen girls at a Justin Timberlake concert.

eh?

How many grenades have you had thrown at you. i actually read one account where a grenade blew up right next to a GI in Somalia (I think it was) black hawk down and didn`t touch him. Sometimes, if you`re lucky (you`re low, the grenade blows in a slight ditch or some such) it can go off right next to you and evrything flies over head.

How are soldiers supoosed to fall when shot. Do German soldiers fall differently to allied?

A rather spiteful little post, I think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

by falling like girls at a Justin Timberlake concert, I meant they all fall in rather quick succession, whereas the Americans rarely fall on-screen. Indeed the biggest character kill-off in BoB is when they did the whole uniform cleaner thing. It all comes down to an American viewership not willing to see their own boys killed on screen as much as some anonymous and faceless enemy.

and I was referring to one scene where the yankee GI is on his knees in a trench and a grenade lands right beside him, he dives away 2 feet away and isn't injured.

If you want a real war movie, watch der Untergang, now that shows more realistic combat than anything that can come out of hollywood.

BGs_Ricky
01-25-2008, 01:33 PM
In Band Of Brothers you could see quite enough American soldiers dying, and not in a pretty or hollywodd-style way.
Der Untergang was an excellent movie, but I don't recall there were that many combat scenes, at least I don't think they were the real strong point of the movie.

buzzsaw1939
01-25-2008, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by roybaty:
While I agree with you leitmotiv the tone of your post is a bit...trying to find a word... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I personally would love to see a drama based on the early years of the Flying Tiger's.


AndyRooneyism....you can't help but like him! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

thefruitbat
01-25-2008, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Breeze147:
A study should be done on how many Brits between the ages of 65 and 61 are half-American.


J/K oops didn't mean it don't get upset keep your knickers straight bangers and mash bangers and mash wink wink

One would be my mum, American airman, who unsuprisingly returned back home, my mum was put up for adoption. I guess that happened a fair amount. The legacy is, that it's a constant effort for me, to try to stop myself eating burgers.... genes eh! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

cheers fruitbat

thefruitbat
01-25-2008, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by jadger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jadger:
is this one gonna have magic grenades like BOB where an American can dive two feet from a grenade and not get injured, and Germans (this one Japanese) fall like preteen girls at a Justin Timberlake concert.

eh?

How many grenades have you had thrown at you. i actually read one account where a grenade blew up right next to a GI in Somalia (I think it was) black hawk down and didn`t touch him. Sometimes, if you`re lucky (you`re low, the grenade blows in a slight ditch or some such) it can go off right next to you and evrything flies over head.

How are soldiers supoosed to fall when shot. Do German soldiers fall differently to allied?

A rather spiteful little post, I think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

by falling like girls at a Justin Timberlake concert, I meant they all fall in rather quick succession, whereas the Americans rarely fall on-screen. Indeed the biggest character kill-off in BoB is when they did the whole uniform cleaner thing. It all comes down to an American viewership not willing to see their own boys killed on screen as much as some anonymous and faceless enemy.

and I was referring to one scene where the yankee GI is on his knees in a trench and a grenade lands right beside him, he dives away 2 feet away and isn't injured.

<span class="ev_code_RED">If you want a real war movie, watch der Untergang, now that shows more realistic combat than anything that can come out of hollywood</span>. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just curious, Whats your definition of a real war movie? Do people really die? Presumably you have been in real combat, as you seem to know what it is really like, to be able to compare what is really realistic or not.

fruitbat

Von_Rat
01-25-2008, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Breeze147:
A study should be done on how many Brits between the ages of 65 and 61 are half-American.


J/K oops didn't mean it don't get upset keep your knickers straight bangers and mash bangers and mash wink wink

One would be my mum, American airman, who unsuprisingly returned back home, my mum was put up for adoption. I guess that happened a fair amount. The legacy is, that it's a constant effort for me, to try to stop myself eating burgers.... genes eh! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

cheers fruitbat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i tease my dad who was with the 8th af and had several brit girlfriends, that i must have a few half brothers or sisters over there.

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
I just love when people bash something and watch it over and over at the same time... I bet leitmotiv watched BOB and SPR like 10 times and cant get enough of it... but hey, bashing is fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Wrong again. I watched B OF BROTHERS once when it premiered and found it embarrassing and insipid. Anything saturated with the silly ideas of that hack Stephen Ambrose will be dubious, to say the least. As for RYAN, don't get me started. One viewing was appalling. For my money the best American war film is BATAAN from 1943---the pure stuff without sanctimonious b.s. We have lost the ability to do great films about war---except for Eastwood, who did a brilliant job with his two Iwo Jima films.

thefruitbat
01-25-2008, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by Von_Rat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Breeze147:
A study should be done on how many Brits between the ages of 65 and 61 are half-American.


J/K oops didn't mean it don't get upset keep your knickers straight bangers and mash bangers and mash wink wink

One would be my mum, American airman, who unsuprisingly returned back home, my mum was put up for adoption. I guess that happened a fair amount. The legacy is, that it's a constant effort for me, to try to stop myself eating burgers.... genes eh! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

cheers fruitbat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i tease my dad who was with the 8th af and had several brit girlfriends, that i must have a few half brothers or sisters over there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess my 'real' grandfather got past the yellow teeth. Or he got to like warm beer... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

By the way, whats the state of affairs of the family estate http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

fruitbat

crazyivan1970
01-25-2008, 03:29 PM
lier http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif You have both on DVD, i know!

arjisme
01-25-2008, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by jadger:
[...]whereas the Americans rarely fall on-screen. [...]It all comes down to an American viewership not willing to see their own boys killed on screen as much as some anonymous and faceless enemy. Why is it I can readily think of many war movies that depict Americans falling on screen then? SPR, Flags of our Fathers/Letters from Iwo Jima, Platoon, Full Metal Jacket for starters.

Where have you gotten your ideas on what is acceptable to an American viewership?

KG66_Gog
01-25-2008, 03:29 PM
Well I've tossed the odd grenade, seen em' go off too and if there is one thing that Hollywood has gotten seriously wrong, its the explosion of a grenade. They are so over-modelled it aint funny.

A typical grenades explosion, the first time you see it, is a big disappointment. I'd liken it to someone letting off a big firecracker in a pillow case full of dust.

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Messaschnitzel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:

and the soldiers of the Philippines army are practically forgotten.

There is a very large Filipino American population living in Northern CA. I have met or worked with a good number of WW2 vets that served alongside the U.S. troops during that time. One thing that the Filipinos still resent is that their common enemy Japan, received more help and money to rebuild their country from the U.S. than the Philippines did after the war.

The Filipinos have a very strong sense of extended family that is constantly emphasized. You are expected to support and be supported by this network at all times. This is called "utang na loob" in Tagalog, which roughly translates to "obligation to the family". This is why the Filipinos were such reliable and effective allies during the war because they considered the U.S. to be part of the "family".

Imagine that your friend, with whom you fought alongside with in a hard won fight would move in the aftermath to help the opposing guys first with their wounds before giving you less attention than the opponents received.

If there are any people that can immediately fit in and become "Americans", it is the Filipinos. English is taught from grades 2-12. Add to that a good, effective education, and you have a productive and patriotic potential citizen.

As a side note, if you wish to study the Filipino martial arts, then the Bay Area of N. Ca., and also S. CA. are a good place look because of the long time Filipino American presence. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I grew up in Stockton which had a big Filipino presence---it was impossible to not know people who had been in the defense of the Philippines. I also knew an American who was in the Philippines with the Grace Line who refused to leave and stayed doing logistics for the defenders until captured. He and the other civilians at Santo Tomas would have been executed by the Japanese in 1945 had it not been for brave Filipinos who got the news of the impending massacre to the American army. The prisoners at Santo Tomas were rescued literally at the last moment. That man, Frank Woodruff Buckles, is now the last ambulatory U.S. WWI vet.

thefruitbat
01-25-2008, 03:46 PM
On an aside,

I know most people dont seem to like it, but for me, I have always found one scene in 'the thin red line' that stands out above nearly everything i have seen on film. It is the moment where they (US) attack the village out of the fog, I think its probally the most emotive desription of war, that i have seen on film. The horror is shown on so many levels, from different viewpoints.

But of course thats totally subjective, my opinion.

Luckily, i have never been in combat, but what i am sure of, as most of you will be too, from reading etc... is that there is no such thing as just combat. It is different depending on the individuals, platoon to platoon, company to company. Subjective i guess.

fruitbat

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 04:00 PM
There are some good scenes in that film---the one I've always liked was when the Americans are pinned down on the elevation below the Japanese hilltop bunker. Malick, unlike Spielberg and all the Hollywood types, understood war is not all frenzied action. He captured the beauty and the dread of the situation wonderfully. Too bad much of the film was wondrously silly---I still can't believe how the man who directed a masterpiece like DAYS OF HEAVEN could have screwed the pooch so eloquently in THIN RED.

Another great U.S. film about war is this TV film from 2001:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0287535/

zardozid
01-25-2008, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by jadger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jadger:
is this one gonna have magic grenades like BOB where an American can dive two feet from a grenade and not get injured, and Germans (this one Japanese) fall like preteen girls at a Justin Timberlake concert.

eh?

How many grenades have you had thrown at you. i actually read one account where a grenade blew up right next to a GI in Somalia (I think it was) black hawk down and didn`t touch him. Sometimes, if you`re lucky (you`re low, the grenade blows in a slight ditch or some such) it can go off right next to you and evrything flies over head.

How are soldiers supoosed to fall when shot. Do German soldiers fall differently to allied?

A rather spiteful little post, I think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

by falling like girls at a Justin Timberlake concert, I meant they all fall in rather quick succession, whereas the Americans rarely fall on-screen. Indeed the biggest character kill-off in BoB is when they did the whole uniform cleaner thing. It all comes down to an American viewership not willing to see their own boys killed on screen as much as some anonymous and faceless enemy.

and I was referring to one scene where the yankee GI is on his knees in a trench and a grenade lands right beside him, he dives away 2 feet away and isn't injured.

If you want a real war movie, watch der Untergang, now that shows more realistic combat than anything that can come out of hollywood. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Did we see that same edit of BoB (LOL)?

I remember one episode where a (American) soldier is killed by his own grenade...the scene is that a group of soldier are assaulting a farm house, the soldier throws a grenade through a window then enters the room shooting before the explosion goes off...BAMM, fatally injured by his own grenade...Bleeding, screaming, crying...very messy and not very "Hollywood Heroic" (just human).

I thought the series did a "fair job" of portraying what these guys must have gone thru... I think you must have watched "BoB" thru biased eyes because their was quite a bit of blood shed on both sides of that story...

The story follows a specific group (based on real people) of soldiers through their experiences in WW2...by the end of the series you are left with less then half of the original cast.

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
I don't think it will be confined to the late Pacific. I have seen other photos showing actors in early marine kit with Springfield '03 rifles and no helmet covers riding in standard landing-craft as well as other pictures showing them with M1 Garands and helmet covers in LVT's.

Besides that, if anyone can name a better TV series covering WW2 US soldiers than BoB I'd like to know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Alas, that film had about zilch to do with Americans at war. It was focused through the distorted lens of Stephen Ambrose's ideas about American character---which were, at best, unbelievably idealistic, and, at the worst, sanctimonious and self-regarding to the point of nausea. A film like 1943's BATAAN has more depth about Americans at war than B OF BROS or RYAN. B OF BROS was overlaid with so much maudlin sentiment, I was, frankly, embarrassed by it. Compared to the hard-edged, bitter realism of novels like THE THIN RED LINE, or the ironic brilliance of the novel CATCH-22, B OF BROS and RYAN are precious Hollywood fantasies mixed with frenzied video game action, and requisite blood. I grew up around American WWII veterans and they were not the bags of sensibility those characters were in B OF BROS. Most of them were very ironic about their experiences in the war. Many were still hard as nails from the war. Many were bitter. At least one, a soldier in Italy who operated behind German lines, and had to shoot dozens of Italian civilians suspected of being fascists was bitter and enraged. There is a depth of experience that the simple matrix of Ambrose (Americans good/Germans evil) cannot tolerate, and for this reason I can't abide B OF BROS, and advise anybody from the rest of the world to regard the film with deep skepticism. I have no optimism anything coming from the Spielberg/Hanks schlock mill will be any better than the previous essays.

Kurfurst__
01-25-2008, 04:13 PM
Band of Brothers was absolutely wonderful, to no small extent to its real life roots and the producers respect for history. Based on it, I absolutely waiting for 'The Pacific'; the theatre was always a bit of stepchild for me. I wonder if there`s a decent movie made from 'The Naked and the Dead'? Would make some excellent base material for an expert hand IMHO.

... SPR was otoh, typical Spielberg commercial **** with zero realism, and primitive 'moral lessons' and Hollywood hype&taunts... the greatest challange watching that POS is to pick the most emberassing scene out of the many.. is it the toss-back-the-nade-on-the-stormtroops, or was it the I-didnt-use-that-am-gee-hitlerkaputt.. or perhaps the foul-crying-hand-picked-nazifaced jerries behin` the walls..? It`s just awful, every part of it.

thefruitbat
01-25-2008, 04:31 PM
Another great U.S. film about war is this TV film from 2001:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0287535/

Oooohh, WWI, thats my real interest, ever since i can remember. Pity there's such a shortage of material on the big screen, but it it is of limited interest these days.

Have you ever seen Anzacs? I wish the bbc would repeat this aussie series. That and All quiet on the western front, both versions in diff ways are telling.

cheers fruitbat

Cajun76
01-25-2008, 04:40 PM
I remember reading an article about when Band came out, and the reporters were screening it with the vets.

Afterward, the reporters smiled and asked how much had been jazzed up for entertainment sake.

The vets patiently replied to the clueless reporters: "That's pretty much how it was."

I look forward to "The Pacific." I hope it's a worthy successor.

Which unit do they follow? Anyone have some good info or stories they can post?

LW_lcarp
01-25-2008, 04:47 PM
IBTL

thefruitbat
01-25-2008, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by LW_lcarp:
IBTL

Why?

stugumby
01-25-2008, 04:54 PM
Hmm lets see, 2 types of grenades, basically offensive/concussuion then defensive/fragmentation. Concussion grenade has minor fragmentation so quite possible for kaboom next to you.

Saving private ryan was and still is a good movie, and with all movies one can nit pick all the continuity erors etc, my favorite is the tommy gun in and out of the plastic wrap etc.

Band of brothers is also a good movie, but its up to the individual to interpret the message.

movie that irked me the most was windtalkers where you could see special effects guys in vietnam era fatigues under bushes etc, and the guy on the back of the tank in the ghillie suit was quite fun to watch. But overall if the purpose of a movie is to entertain and reflect then theyve served their purpose as far as im concerned.

People will always set their minds as to whats right etc. Hollywood exists for a reason and history is brutal by nature, at least hollywood tries to show things to get a particular point across. Notice in the early ww2 movies there was loads of jap bashing as in real life, remember the grinning buck toothed goons in fighting seabees. Then go to modern pearl harbor remake and the enemy was realistically portrayed.

BOB and SPR had no heel kicking, sieg heiling nazi stooges, just everyday landsers etc, matter of fact one of the BOB real life guys mentioned his enemies probably had similar tastes hobbies etc.

Complaining comes with freedom of speech so whine away, when your done thank a veteran..

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Another great U.S. film about war is this TV film from 2001:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0287535/

Oooohh, WWI, thats my real interest, ever since i can remember. Pity there's such a shortage of material on the big screen, but it it is of limited interest these days.

Have you ever seen Anzacs? I wish the bbc would repeat this aussie series. That and All quiet on the western front, both versions in diff ways are telling.

cheers fruitbat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gads, I saw ANZACS years ago and can't recall it very well. Another WWI classic (British) is KING AND COUNTRY---Dirk Bogarde and Tom Courtenay at their best:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058263/

Pirschjaeger
01-25-2008, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
How are soldiers supoosed to fall when shot. Do German soldiers fall differently to allied?


Yes. A belly full of beer, sauerkraut, liverwurst, and rye breads tends to make a special sound. Not quite a thud but more like a rumbling. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 05:18 PM
My father was in the war in a USN sub in the Pacific, and, to put it brutally, he would have been embarrassed by the sanctimonious and self-righteous tone of B OF BROS (starting with that awful theme music which makes me turn green every time I hear it). One thing B OF BROS and films of its ilk avoid like the plague is how do fighting men behave when given suicidal orders, which, unfortunately, occurred rather too frequently. The father of a friend of mine, a U.S. Army engineer sergeant, was ordered to take a squad and destroy a Tiger tank with a bazooka because there was no other weapon available to deal with it. Needless-to-say, he had to evaluate his position vis-a-vis the army. My father was made part of a British team under orders to swim into Singapore harbor and attach limpet mines to the hull of a Japanese heavy cruiser. They all knew they were dead. Fortunately, the insane plan was discarded. Ambrose doesn't want to deal with startling moments of revelation when fighting men realize with a jolt they are expendable. He prefers the easy path of triumphalism. Yecchh.

LW_lcarp
01-25-2008, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LW_lcarp:
IBTL

Why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cause all this is going to turn into is a mine is bigger then yours and all stupidity will breakout causeing it to be locked.

Von_Rat
01-25-2008, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Breeze147:
A study should be done on how many Brits between the ages of 65 and 61 are half-American.


J/K oops didn't mean it don't get upset keep your knickers straight bangers and mash bangers and mash wink wink

One would be my mum, American airman, who unsuprisingly returned back home, my mum was put up for adoption. I guess that happened a fair amount. The legacy is, that it's a constant effort for me, to try to stop myself eating burgers.... genes eh! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

cheers fruitbat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i tease my dad who was with the 8th af and had several brit girlfriends, that i must have a few half brothers or sisters over there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess my 'real' grandfather got past the yellow teeth. Or he got to like warm beer... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

By the way, whats the state of affairs of the family estate http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

fruitbat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



i told my dad to spend it all on fast women and slow horses. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

thefruitbat
01-25-2008, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Another great U.S. film about war is this TV film from 2001:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0287535/

Oooohh, WWI, thats my real interest, ever since i can remember. Pity there's such a shortage of material on the big screen, but it it is of limited interest these days.

Have you ever seen Anzacs? I wish the bbc would repeat this aussie series. That and All quiet on the western front, both versions in diff ways are telling.

cheers fruitbat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gads, I saw ANZACS years ago and can't recall it very well. Another WWI classic (British) is KING AND COUNTRY---Dirk Bogarde and Tom Courtenay at their best:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058263/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are interested in WW1, and would be interested in seeing someting out of the ordinary,

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/DSCN2259.jpg

All stuff printed during WW1, and reproduced at end. Jingoism, is a much understated word.

but a lot of photos, and more particuarly news paper paintings, which never see the light of day now.

PM me, or reply here, and i'll start a thread.

cheers fruitbat

Von_Rat
01-25-2008, 05:38 PM
some people here need to repeat that line from the old movie ad.


its only a movie.

its only a movie.

its only a movie.

Airmail109
01-25-2008, 05:40 PM
Best war Films/series. Platoon, Band of Brothers, and The Thin Red Line.

Von_Rat
01-25-2008, 05:47 PM
liverwurst


dammit i just got back from the grocery store.


i knew i forgot somthing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

SeaFireLIV
01-25-2008, 06:09 PM
Thin Red Line was far too esoterically psychological for it`s own good. I mean, there`s only so much watching kids ponce around on a beach that I can take! I mean, come on - it`s a WAR film!

I`ll get my coat then, Leitmotiv.

Airmail109
01-25-2008, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Thin Red Line was far too esoterically psychological for it`s own. I mean, there`s only so much watching kids ponce around on a beach that I can take! I mean, come on!

I`ll get my coat then, Leitmotiv.

Disagree 100 percent

War is all about psychology

Was a great change from your usual bloodfest

Lots of memorable parts in that film, especially the dialog's between Sean Penn's character and James Caviezels, the camera work and the music. Generally haunting film.

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Thin Red Line was far too esoterically psychological for it`s own good. I mean, there`s only so much watching kids ponce around on a beach that I can take! I mean, come on - it`s a WAR film!

I`ll get my coat then, Leitmotiv.

I don't get you. I think the film is silly buggers, too, but it did have some good scenes---after all, Terence Malick is a great director even though he blew his foot off on this one.

Airmail109
01-25-2008, 06:18 PM
Well all I have to say is that film manages to convey much of the emptiness that one feels after witnessing/being involved in violance.

No other film I've seen does that.

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Von_Rat:
some people here need to repeat that line from the old movie ad.


its only a movie.

its only a movie.

its only a movie.

No, no film is only a "movie"---because cinema is the most powerful art medium in existence, and, unfortunately, most people believe what they see on the big screen as being the unvarnished truth. Thus, false or misleading films can cause damage for generations. Recall D.W. Griffith's THE BIRTH OF NATION. An entire generation in the U.S. saw blacks as criminally inclined subhumans due to the power of this film. NEVER underrate the power of film.

Airmail109
01-25-2008, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
some people here need to repeat that line from the old movie ad.


its only a movie.

its only a movie.

its only a movie.

No, no film is only a "movie"---because cinema is the most powerful art medium in existence, and, unfortunately, most people believe what they see on the big screen as being the unvarnished truth. Thus, false or misleading films can cause damage for generations. Recall D.W. Griffith's THE BIRTH OF NATION. An entire generation in the U.S. saw blacks as criminally inclined subhumans due to the power of this film. NEVER underrate the power of film. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah look what Mars Attacks did

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Well all I have to say is that film manages to convey much of the emptiness that one feels after witnessing/being involved in violance.

No other film I've seen does that.

As somebody who has been involved in violence, I can't say the film addressed the aftermath of this particularly well. It was a travesty of Jones' brilliant novel which did investigate war in detail, and with truth.

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Another great U.S. film about war is this TV film from 2001:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0287535/

Oooohh, WWI, thats my real interest, ever since i can remember. Pity there's such a shortage of material on the big screen, but it it is of limited interest these days.

Have you ever seen Anzacs? I wish the bbc would repeat this aussie series. That and All quiet on the western front, both versions in diff ways are telling.

cheers fruitbat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gads, I saw ANZACS years ago and can't recall it very well. Another WWI classic (British) is KING AND COUNTRY---Dirk Bogarde and Tom Courtenay at their best:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058263/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are interested in WW1, and would be interested in seeing someting out of the ordinary,

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/DSCN2259.jpg

All stuff printed during WW1, and reproduced at end. Jingoism, is a much understated word.

but a lot of photos, and more particuarly news paper paintings, which never see the light of day now.

PM me, or reply here, and i'll start a thread.

cheers fruitbat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks like you have a gem there, FB. I have the period collection of cartoons from PUNCH, which is an education and a half!

Airmail109
01-25-2008, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Well all I have to say is that film manages to convey much of the emptiness that one feels after witnessing/being involved in violance.

No other film I've seen does that.

As somebody who has been involved in violence, I can't say the film addressed the aftermath of this particularly well. It was a travesty of Jones' brilliant novel which did investigate war in detail, and with truth. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your opinion I guess http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif There were some scenes I didn't like in it though. The love thing going on with monologue was cringe worthy.

However the book is better. As most books are when compared to film adoptions.

Von_Rat
01-25-2008, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
some people here need to repeat that line from the old movie ad.


its only a movie.

its only a movie.

its only a movie.

No, no film is only a "movie"---because cinema is the most powerful art medium in existence, and, unfortunately, most people believe what they see on the big screen as being the unvarnished truth. Thus, false or misleading films can cause damage for generations. Recall D.W. Griffith's THE BIRTH OF NATION. An entire generation in the U.S. saw blacks as criminally inclined subhumans due to the power of this film. NEVER underrate the power of film. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


jesus enough with the elitism already.

most people are not idiots and your not as smart as you think you are.



its not that people are stupid, its just that most people just dont give a rats arse whether a film is true or not. its entertainment and they view it as such, rightly so imo.

Airmail109
01-25-2008, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Von_Rat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
some people here need to repeat that line from the old movie ad.


its only a movie.

its only a movie.

its only a movie.

No, no film is only a "movie"---because cinema is the most powerful art medium in existence, and, unfortunately, most people believe what they see on the big screen as being the unvarnished truth. Thus, false or misleading films can cause damage for generations. Recall D.W. Griffith's THE BIRTH OF NATION. An entire generation in the U.S. saw blacks as criminally inclined subhumans due to the power of this film. NEVER underrate the power of film. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


jesus enough with the elitism already.

most people are not idiots and your not as smart as you think you are.



its not that people are stupid, its just that most people just dont give a rats arse whether a film is true or not. its entertainment and they view it as such, rightly so imo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah man I was like totally psyched that I was gonna get microwaved by Aliens after seeing Mars Attacks

You is wrong fo' sure!

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Von_Rat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
some people here need to repeat that line from the old movie ad.


its only a movie.

its only a movie.

its only a movie.

No, no film is only a "movie"---because cinema is the most powerful art medium in existence, and, unfortunately, most people believe what they see on the big screen as being the unvarnished truth. Thus, false or misleading films can cause damage for generations. Recall D.W. Griffith's THE BIRTH OF NATION. An entire generation in the U.S. saw blacks as criminally inclined subhumans due to the power of this film. NEVER underrate the power of film. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


jesus enough with the elitism already.

most people are not idiots and your not as smart as you think you are.



its not that people are stupid, its just that most people just dont give a rats arse whether a film is true or not. its entertainment and they view it as such, rightly so imo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_PINK">POOR NANCY!</span>

Von_Rat
01-25-2008, 06:47 PM
lol ,,, good role model http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

jarink
01-25-2008, 07:26 PM
Even though leitmotiv will probably bash it for being a sappy, triumphant wreck, I'd like to mention the 90's remake of Memphis Belle as a good war movie. Sure, it emphasizes the (few) positives to come out the '43 bombing campaign while not dealing well with the dark side of the air war (12 o' Clock High is an excellent movie that does that), it's still better than most.

My grandfather (who just happened to really be there) liked the film, so I figure it must have some merit. His only negative comment was that it was a bit much to have happen on one mission.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Bo_Nidle
01-25-2008, 07:59 PM
I thought "The Thin Red Line" was a totally over-rated none-event. If anyone other than Terrence Malick had made that film it would have been slated. It was his reputation that carried the film and I doubt the script would have attracted the likes of Nick Nolte, George Clooney, Woody Harrelson and Sean Penn but for the fact of Malicks attachment to the project.

Frankly it was a dull and tedious rambling mess of style over substance with characterisation that was virtually none-existent and what characters there were were so unmemorable who gave a toss about them?

What it needed was the army of soldiers from "Monty python and the Holy Grail" to appear on the horizon and shout "GET ON WITH IT!"

Now, "Cross of Iron" was a good war film. Excellent characters, good story, tight script, excellent cinematography, tremendous action scenes and a strong anti-war message. This and "The Wild Bunch" (IMHO) are Sam Peckinpah's greatest films.

I was very disappointed with the remake of "Memphis Belle" but it had one outstanding scene where John Lithgow (great actor) read letters from Next of kin of airmen who had been KIA over a montage of genuine combat footage. It also had one memorable line from Sean Astin's character in the ball turret following a close pass by a 109:"THAT GUY HAD BLUE EYES!"

fabianfred
01-25-2008, 08:05 PM
I will always remember the first time I saw SPR at the cinema....and the beach assault on Omaha was shocking.....when the movie ended everyone quietly left the cinema....full of their own thoughts and quite over come by the experience....unlike any previous war movie

I remember being told of veterans who watched it...crying...because at last a war movie had got it right....

BoB was similarly a cut above the usual hollywood ****...

having just read a great book about Okinawa.... and how sometimes artillery shells would explode beside you ...and kill a man lying next to you but leave you untouched....grenades are also very strange in their behavior

we heard about men sitting in a circle priming grenades...the pineapple kind for defence....and one going off and killing all there....a dozen men...... whilst at times one goes off beside you and you remain unscathed....

those who do not know....put it down to luck.... but actually ones karma comes into it too

crucislancer
01-25-2008, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by roybaty:
I personally would love to see a drama based on the early years of the Flying Tiger's.

This is a bit weird. This is from the wikipedia entry on Drake Bell (from Drake & Josh, a teen show on Nickelodeon):

Bell will also be in another Virtus Entertainment production, this one a mini-series titled Flying Tigers. The film is about a squadron of American pilots who fought the Japanese in Asia immediately after the attack on Pearl Harbor.

I haven't seen anything else about this, first I've heard of it. I did a little more searching, and found a few people thinking that it might be the worst thing ever.

I'm not one to jump to conclusions about programs that I haven't seen yet, so I'm just going to cross my fingers, and hope this mini-series is good.

As far as "The Pacific", I believe that it is based on "With the Old Breed" and "Helmet for my Pillow". I've read "Old Breed", the book covers the Peleliu invasion and Okinawa. Haven't read "Pillow", so I have no idea what that covers. Again, I'll watch it and hope it's good.

Ya know, it really is just a movie. It's entertainment based on historical events, and there have been a ton of them. Some of the ones from 50 years ago (or more) aren't so great, and certainly no better then some of the stuff coming out in the past decade. Moviemakers always take creative license with these kinds of things. If I want to be educated with a film, I'll watch a documentary.

SeaFireLIV
01-25-2008, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:


Now, "Cross of Iron" was a good war film. Excellent characters, good story, tight script, excellent cinematography, tremendous action scenes and a strong anti-war message.

Yep. Even the weird ending was good (though I think that was cos they ran out of time or cash).

Thin Red Line had some good bits, but like I said before, it tried to be too psychological. It indeed needed Monty python to wake it up. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

han freak solo
01-25-2008, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
A friend of mine has a brother who lives in Australia.He got himself a none-speaking part in "The Pacific" which is the follow-up to "Band of Brothers".

Cool. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Speaking of old war movies, The War Lover (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056676/) is coming on The Military Channel in the US Saturday Night 9pm EST. I've never seen it, but I'm plannin' on seein' it. Good or bad. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

jarink
01-25-2008, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
Now, "Cross of Iron" was a good war film. Excellent characters, good story, tight script, excellent cinematography, tremendous action scenes and a strong anti-war message.

"I've found that a combination of dirt and skin oil will make you waterproof."
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

swdw973
01-25-2008, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Yes, more Spielberg/Hanks triumphalism. Eastwood wrote the last word on the late Pacific War with his excellent two films of a year ago. A really interesting series would have concentrated on the "backs to the wall" period, and the now almost forgotten defense of Wake Island and the Philippines through the arduous carrier battles of 1942. But, no, we will get more of the same we received in B OF BROTHERS and RYAN. There was no greater test of the American character than the lost hope defense of the Philippines, and now those soldiers, and the soldiers of the Philippines army are practically forgotten.

Interesting comment. Considering my father-in law was in the 2nd marine division and took part in every campaign they were in until jan 1945, I'd like to let you know you have no idea what you're talking about.

He was in the initial landings at Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Saipan, and Tinian. Go look at the casualty figures before thinking these were cake walks.

Go find a vet from the 2nd division and talk to him. It might change your opinion and your self righteous attitude, which is a slap in the face to everyone who fought their way across the Pacific.

zardozid
01-25-2008, 10:00 PM
"Thin Red Line" doesn't work as a film...but it has far too much going for it, for it to be a total "right-off".

Has anyone seen the film "Come and see" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091251/)? The first time I saw "Thin red line" I was reminded of this Russian film, I think it was one of the first "anti-war" films I ever saw that blended powerful images of death and cruelty in an "artsy-dramatic" way. Here (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091251/trailers-screenplay-E17176-310) is the trailer (their is a short ad you have to sit through first) it gives you an idea of what I'm talking about...

For anyone who enjoys (if that the right word?) this type of movie "come and see" is a one of a kind experience. Their are some very powerful images in this movie that will stick with you long after the movie has ended. Their is a very simple shot of the German army caravan leaving a small village it burned to the ground that will sicken you...The German army caravan has a circus train feel to it, and after the horror of their actions in the village you hate them...the movie pulls no punches as to who the bad guys are.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Comeandsee3.jpg

http://www.megaronline.org/IMG/jpg/idi66.jpg

http://www.delokrat.ru/images/idi_i_smotri_kadr_1.jpg

deepo_HP
01-25-2008, 10:41 PM
yes, zardozid, 'come and see' is some remarkable experience.
pictures of late war often suffer from the order of intention: either they are entertaining (not to be mixed with interesting or not-boring), or they glorify aspects of this dirty business, sometimes biased, or they are overfilled with realism in a way, that one gets used to the view of it (and such losing the effect)...
i don't think, there are more than 3 or 4 movies, which i regard as describing war in an adequate and artistic manner, like 'come and see' does. besides older ones like maybe 'the naked and the dead' and 'apocalypse now', there is also the finnish 'winter war'.
'saving private ryan' and such are pretty much on the opposite end of scale.

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by swdw973:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Yes, more Spielberg/Hanks triumphalism. Eastwood wrote the last word on the late Pacific War with his excellent two films of a year ago. A really interesting series would have concentrated on the "backs to the wall" period, and the now almost forgotten defense of Wake Island and the Philippines through the arduous carrier battles of 1942. But, no, we will get more of the same we received in B OF BROTHERS and RYAN. There was no greater test of the American character than the lost hope defense of the Philippines, and now those soldiers, and the soldiers of the Philippines army are practically forgotten.

Interesting comment. Considering my father-in law was in the 2nd marine division and took part in every campaign they were in until jan 1945, I'd like to let you know you have no idea what you're talking about.

He was in the initial landings at Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Saipan, and Tinian. Go look at the casualty figures before thinking these were cake walks.

Go find a vet from the 2nd division and talk to him. It might change your opinion and your self righteous attitude, which is a slap in the face to everyone who fought their way across the Pacific. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give it a rest. If you don't think the Philippines was the greatest test, you are in dreamland: starving, cut off, not enough equipment, not enough ammunition, for all intents abandoned, yet they fought on until ordered to surrender. And, 3 1/2 years of absolute Hell on earth in Japanese camps---if they were lucky enough to survive. My father was in the war, and he would give it to the Philippines soldiers, American and Filipino, any day, as would anybody who lived through that period. The neglect of them by our asinine generation is a testament to our lack of knowledge and banality. And, by the way, I never wrote the Pacific bloodbath was a cakewalk, I wrote that the Philippines was the greatest test of the American character, and I will certainly stand by it. It was Valley Forge, not Yorktown that testified to our national will.

leitmotiv
01-25-2008, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by zardozid:
"Thin Red Line" doesn't work as a film...but it has far too much going for it, for it to be a total "right-off".

Has anyone seen the film "Come and see" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091251/)? The first time I saw "Thin red line" I was reminded of this Russian film, I think it was one of the first "anti-war" films I ever saw that blended powerful images of death and cruelty in an "artsy-dramatic" way. Here (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091251/trailers-screenplay-E17176-310) is the trailer (their is a short ad you have to sit through first) it gives you an idea of what I'm talking about...

For anyone who enjoys (if that the right word?) this type of movie "come and see" is a one of a kind experience. Their are some very powerful images in this movie that will stick with you long after the movie has ended. Their is a very simple shot of the German army caravan leaving a small village it burned to the ground that will sicken you...The German army caravan has a circus train feel to it, and after the horror of their actions in the village you hate them...the movie pulls no punches as to who the bad guys are.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Comeandsee3.jpg

http://www.megaronline.org/IMG/jpg/idi66.jpg

http://www.delokrat.ru/images/idi_i_smotri_kadr_1.jpg

Truly brilliant film. MOTHERLAND is also excellent for the Soviet war.

zardozid
01-26-2008, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by swdw973:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Yes, more Spielberg/Hanks triumphalism. Eastwood wrote the last word on the late Pacific War with his excellent two films of a year ago. A really interesting series would have concentrated on the "backs to the wall" period, and the now almost forgotten defense of Wake Island and the Philippines through the arduous carrier battles of 1942. But, no, we will get more of the same we received in B OF BROTHERS and RYAN. There was no greater test of the American character than the lost hope defense of the Philippines, and now those soldiers, and the soldiers of the Philippines army are practically forgotten.

Interesting comment. Considering my father-in law was in the 2nd marine division and took part in every campaign they were in until jan 1945, I'd like to let you know you have no idea what you're talking about.

He was in the initial landings at Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Saipan, and Tinian. Go look at the casualty figures before thinking these were cake walks.

Go find a vet from the 2nd division and talk to him. It might change your opinion and your self righteous attitude, which is a slap in the face to everyone who fought their way across the Pacific. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give it a rest. If you don't think the Philippines was the greatest test, you are in dreamland: starving, cut off, not enough equipment, not enough ammunition, for all intents abandoned, yet they fought on until ordered to surrender. And, 3 1/2 years of absolute Hell on earth in Japanese camps---if they were lucky enough to survive. My father was in the war, and he would give it to the Philippines soldiers, American and Filipino, any day, as would anybody who lived through that period. The neglect of them by our asinine generation is a testament to our lack of knowledge and banality. And, by the way, I never wrote the Pacific bloodbath was a cakewalk, I wrote that the Philippines was the greatest test of the American character, and I will certainly stand by it. It was Valley Forge, not Yorktown that testified to our national will. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You make many good points, and I agree that the soldiers, in the Philippines, went through something horrific that (maybe) could have been prevented...but I start to feel a little uneasy when people compare the battle experience's of veterans and rank them on a scale of difficulty (if I may use that word to describe what soldiers go through)... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jadger
01-26-2008, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by zardozid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by swdw973:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Yes, more Spielberg/Hanks triumphalism. Eastwood wrote the last word on the late Pacific War with his excellent two films of a year ago. A really interesting series would have concentrated on the "backs to the wall" period, and the now almost forgotten defense of Wake Island and the Philippines through the arduous carrier battles of 1942. But, no, we will get more of the same we received in B OF BROTHERS and RYAN. There was no greater test of the American character than the lost hope defense of the Philippines, and now those soldiers, and the soldiers of the Philippines army are practically forgotten.

Interesting comment. Considering my father-in law was in the 2nd marine division and took part in every campaign they were in until jan 1945, I'd like to let you know you have no idea what you're talking about.

He was in the initial landings at Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Saipan, and Tinian. Go look at the casualty figures before thinking these were cake walks.

Go find a vet from the 2nd division and talk to him. It might change your opinion and your self righteous attitude, which is a slap in the face to everyone who fought their way across the Pacific. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give it a rest. If you don't think the Philippines was the greatest test, you are in dreamland: starving, cut off, not enough equipment, not enough ammunition, for all intents abandoned, yet they fought on until ordered to surrender. And, 3 1/2 years of absolute Hell on earth in Japanese camps---if they were lucky enough to survive. My father was in the war, and he would give it to the Philippines soldiers, American and Filipino, any day, as would anybody who lived through that period. The neglect of them by our asinine generation is a testament to our lack of knowledge and banality. And, by the way, I never wrote the Pacific bloodbath was a cakewalk, I wrote that the Philippines was the greatest test of the American character, and I will certainly stand by it. It was Valley Forge, not Yorktown that testified to our national will. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You make many good points, and I agree that the soldiers, in the Philippines, went through something horrific that (maybe) could have been prevented...but I start to feel a little uneasy when people compare the battle experience's of veterans and rank them on a scale of difficulty (if I may use that word to describe what soldiers go through)... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think swdw misunderstood leitmotiv, as he thought that leitmotiv saying that the Phillipines was the hardest was somehow implying that the rest were all easy. I don't think anyone can make that assumption. although swdw read that into leitmotiv's post that didnt even mention the battles swdw did.

Da_Godfatha
01-26-2008, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:


Now, "Cross of Iron" was a good war film. Excellent characters, good story, tight script, excellent cinematography, tremendous action scenes and a strong anti-war message.

Yep. Even the weird ending was good (though I think that was cos they ran out of time or cash).

Thin Red Line had some good bits, but like I said before, it tried to be too psychological. It indeed needed Monty python to wake it up. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They had planned to make a sequel to Cross of Iron. But the director dies before the plans could be made. Another good one is "Big Red One-The Reconstruction" , now that movie ismuch better.

Leitmotiv, I really think you need to see a head doctor, you have alot of problems dude.

BTW, "Platoon" was the most realistic Vietnam movie made (I was there, trust me, alot of that chit happened), followed by Coppala's masterpiece.

GF

Bewolf
01-26-2008, 05:15 AM
You guys missed the "Das Boot" mini series. One of the best ones out there.

Bo_Nidle
01-26-2008, 06:51 AM
I have never heard of "Come and See".

My curiosity piqued I have ordered it from Amazon.co.uk for less than £10.

LW_lcarp
01-26-2008, 08:57 AM
I love posts from people who say my _________ (dad, uncle, grandpa, etc.) were in the war so I now how it was. If all you have is stories from others that were in combat then you have NO idea what its like.

The only thing you get from most vets is that combat is 95% boredom followed by 5% shear terror. Only if you have experienced combat can you rightfully say you know what its like

han freak solo
01-26-2008, 09:02 AM
Another movie I saw a couple weeks ago that was surprisingly good is No Man's Land (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283509/). My expectations were low since I never heard of it, but it was definitely worth my time.

VW-IceFire
01-26-2008, 09:04 AM
Looking forward to this one. Band of Brothers was excellently done and I hope they keep to the same set of standards they had for that one. I don't get all the bashing...Band of Brothers seemed appropriately historical and well researched. They showed how horrible the war was for everyone on both sides and it was a pretty strong human story. Can't win them all I guess.

GreyFox5
01-26-2008, 09:05 AM
It's only a movie fellas.

However IMHO sometimes war movies are done for very different reasons. And I mean this - Right now were (The U.S.) in a war that - well I don't need to get into that. And movies get the green light for a number of reasons.

So - SPR did well and it boosted the public in supporting the military.
- It's almost a feel good movie - one guy out survives to get Ryan out of there.

- BoB again war is hell but Americans will triumph.

So the new movie maybe there to boost visibility of the War in Iraq and make us all feel good about going to war and sacrificing the young and poor of this country for a good cause http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Again - IMHO

So that being said I own both DVDs and plan to own Letters from Iwo Jima and Flags of our Fathers on blue ray because I'm American and what ever happens I will try and support this country no matter what!

GIAP.Shura
01-26-2008, 09:37 AM
SPR was released in 1998. BoB originally aired on 9th Sept 2001. Unless you are a conspiracy theorists I am guessing these were not made to boost support for a war which commenced in 2003.

I thought SPR had great production values but was spoiled by the usual Spielberg schmaltz which never really works when he is trying to make a serious point.

Although there was the occasional duff moment, I thought BoB overall was excellent and, if of a similar quality, am looking forward to the series on the Pacific as I don't know a great deal about that conflict.

I_KG100_Prien
01-26-2008, 10:07 AM
Hmm lets see, 2 types of grenades, basically offensive/concussuion then defensive/fragmentation. Concussion grenade has minor fragmentation so quite possible for kaboom next to you.

Sure, minor fragmentation, but the overpressure from the explosion will kill you. Remember, it's not just fragmentation that kills.


As far as the rest of it goes. Keep in mind that most of the armchair war fighters here only know what they know second-hand.

Though, I will give them that in some films there is a little bit of over-dramatization. It's the nature of the beast.

jadger
01-26-2008, 10:22 AM
So that being said I own both DVDs and plan to own Letters from Iwo Jima and Flags of our Fathers on blue ray because I'm American and what ever happens I will try and support this country no matter what!

you support your country (and your veterans) by buying DVDs that can often make a mockery of their experiences? at that, those DVDs are probably made in China anyways. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jarink
01-26-2008, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:


Now, "Cross of Iron" was a good war film. Excellent characters, good story, tight script, excellent cinematography, tremendous action scenes and a strong anti-war message.

Yep. Even the weird ending was good (though I think that was cos they ran out of time or cash).

Thin Red Line had some good bits, but like I said before, it tried to be too psychological. It indeed needed Monty python to wake it up. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They had planned to make a sequel to Cross of Iron. But the director dies before the plans could be made. Another good one is "Big Red One-The Reconstruction" , now that movie ismuch better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They actually did make a sequel to CoI, called http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078320/ (http://Breakthrough)
It wasn't very good...

GreyFox5
01-26-2008, 01:12 PM
Ya I bet they are made in China... Its the spirit of it.

And why are there no cool recent British movies on the exploits of those brave Brits? Or Aussies etc?

harryklein66
01-26-2008, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by GreyFox5:
And why are there no cool recent British movies on the exploits of those brave Brits?

A sort of :
Joyeux NoŽl (http://french.imdb.com/title/tt0424205/)

LW_lcarp
01-26-2008, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by GreyFox5:
And why are there no cool recent British movies on the exploits of those brave Brits? Or Aussies etc?

Cause you havent put the money up to produce it.

Cajun76
01-26-2008, 02:54 PM
The problem is apparently with technology. They haven't built a strong enough Cynic Filter for 5% of the population. They're not worth catering to, when even quality productions like Band of Brothers gets trashed, and "The Pacific" is trod upon before it's even finished.

dugong
01-26-2008, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
My father was in the war in a USN sub in the Pacific, and, to put it brutally, he would have been embarrassed by the sanctimonious and self-righteous tone of B OF BROS (starting with that awful theme music which makes me turn green every time I hear it). One thing B OF BROS and films of its ilk avoid like the plague is how do fighting men behave when given suicidal orders, which, unfortunately, occurred rather too frequently. The father of a friend of mine, a U.S. Army engineer sergeant, was ordered to take a squad and destroy a Tiger tank with a bazooka because there was no other weapon available to deal with it. Needless-to-say, he had to evaluate his position vis-a-vis the army. My father was made part of a British team under orders to swim into Singapore harbor and attach limpet mines to the hull of a Japanese heavy cruiser. They all knew they were dead. Fortunately, the insane plan was discarded. Ambrose doesn't want to deal with startling moments of revelation when fighting men realize with a jolt they are expendable. He prefers the easy path of triumphalism. Yecchh.

He writes what sells. His books sell for a reason. The type of experiences you are referencing might be interesting for a select few, but they won't pay Ambrose's bills.

Tater-SW-
01-26-2008, 03:51 PM
Actually, there is an episode of BoB when Winters, faced with seemingly suicidal orders (a repeat patrol to grab prisoners) instead orders his men to falsify the patrol report and not do it.

Given that before D-Day they fully expected 70% casualties for the airborne units, wouldn't D-Day itself be considered suicidal for them? (they did far better, but it was a big surprise)

Personally, for a PTO version I'd have preferred 42/43

tater

jadger
01-26-2008, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
Actually, there is an episode of BoB when Winters, faced with seemingly suicidal orders (a repeat patrol to grab prisoners) instead orders his men to falsify the patrol report and not do it.

Given that before D-Day they fully expected 70% casualties for the airborne units, wouldn't D-Day itself be considered suicidal for them? (they did far better, but it was a big surprise)

Personally, for a PTO version I'd have preferred 42/43

tater

I'm pretty sure that they didn't release that 70% figure to the common airborne grunt before he jumped in the DC3/glider. So he would hardly know it was suicide. Compare this to WWI when they had all been through the same bloody mess over and over, then that is suicide. I guess what I'm saying is that it's only suicide if you know it is.

Plunkertx
01-26-2008, 08:19 PM
Check out: www.pacificfans.com (http://www.pacificfans.com)

Skoshi Tiger
01-26-2008, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by GreyFox5:
And why are there no cool recent British movies on the exploits of those brave Brits? Or Aussies etc?

Last good Australian one was the film 'Kokoda' made in 2006?

It looks at the exploits of a platoon from the 49th Battalion Militia in the opening stages of the Battle of Kokoda Track.

(My Dad was part of the 2/16th Battalion AIF that they meet up with towards the end of the film)

I think the last accurate British one was the Black Adder series based in the WW. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

( BTW I named my first born son after Rowan Attkins!!!)

Bo_Nidle
01-26-2008, 08:52 PM
The site features an unconfirmed list of the episodes:

1- Guadalcanal/Leckie
2-Guadalcanal/Basilone
3-Melbourne
4- Gloucester/Pavuvu/Banika
5- Peleliu Landing
6- Peleliu Airfield
7- Peleliu Hills
8- Iwo Jima
9- Okinawa
10- Home


As for the question someone asked why there are no British war films being made? I think you have to understand where Britain is as a nation at this point with regards to its psyche. We have become bitter and shallow in the extreme in the last 20-30 years. As a people we do not look on anothers success and feel good for them, instead we tend to be envious and long for their demise.

We do not regard military successes as a proud part of our history. Instead there is a concerted effort to rewrite or plain bury the past if it is remotely un-PC.

We revel in our failures and regard victories with suspicion. Our heroes are not people that risk their lives for others.They are not people to look up to and follow their example with regards to honour and courage. Nowadays the British "heroes" are ill-mannered louts who would be in prison save for the fact that they can kick a football, or the unbelievable morons that spew from the "Big Brother" sty of reality TV.

We have a vast history of military greatness. The stories of the Chindits, Pegasus Bridge, the Battle of Britain and one of my personal favourites as it would make a terrific action packed film, the St Nazaire raid, are just a few of the films aching to be made.

But they probably never will be made in Britain. After all it's taking a New Zealander to remake "The Dambusters", I'm looking forward to it immensely, but why hasn't it been done here?

Skoshi Tiger
01-26-2008, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
We revel in our failures and regard victories with suspicion. Our heroes are not people that risk their lives for others.They are not people to look up to and follow their example with regards to honour and courage. Nowadays the British "heroes" are ill-mannered louts who would be in prison save for the fact that they can kick a football, or the unbelievable morons that spew from the "Big Brother" sty of reality TV.



Unfortunately your not alone in the world with that trend. Although not as advanced as Britain, I can see the same trends emerging over here in Australia. God help us all!

Tater-SW-
01-26-2008, 09:14 PM
True enough about knowing the danger before hand rehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gifaratroops.

OTOH, Marine units in the Pacific certainly knew that the next island would be no walk in the park. Casualty figures on the pacific island amphibious operations were appalling.

Breeze147
01-29-2008, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by Skoshi Tiger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
We revel in our failures and regard victories with suspicion. Our heroes are not people that risk their lives for others.They are not people to look up to and follow their example with regards to honour and courage. Nowadays the British "heroes" are ill-mannered louts who would be in prison save for the fact that they can kick a football, or the unbelievable morons that spew from the "Big Brother" sty of reality TV.



Unfortunately your not alone in the world with that trend. Although not as advanced as Britain, I can see the same trends emerging over here in Australia. God help us all! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

American youth idolizes "Gangsta Rappers" as heroes of the oppressed, so we are going the same way.

Breeze147
01-29-2008, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by KG66_Gog:
Well I've tossed the odd grenade, seen em' go off too and if there is one thing that Hollywood has gotten seriously wrong, its the explosion of a grenade. They are so over-modelled it aint funny.

A typical grenades explosion, the first time you see it, is a big disappointment. I'd liken it to someone letting off a big firecracker in a pillow case full of dust.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif