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View Full Version : HOTAS users: CH or Thrustmaster Cougar???



Schwarz.13
08-19-2008, 06:25 PM
I see a certain UK website are selling the Thrustmaster Cougar for just 145 (+ free delivery) whilst the cheapest i can find the CH Throttle + Fighterstick is for 210 (+ free delivery) - that's quite a difference!

My question is which of these two would i be better of buying? Whilst i'd obviously rather spend less AND have authentic replica F-16 controls, i've heard that there are big quality control issues with the Cougar e.g. pots prone to spiking etc.

BTW i am not interested in Saitek!

Thanks...

steiner562
08-19-2008, 06:29 PM
Never used the Thrustmaster Cougar,but apparently they require more maintainace and modifications=more $$,I have a CH fighter stick,and love it,wont be being changing anytime soon.

knightflyte
08-19-2008, 07:04 PM
Cougars used to be sold at Comp USA. While investigating my next HOTAS purchase I was leaning toward Thrustmaster. It wasn't until I tried one at Comp USA that I decided it wasn't a stick I thought I'd be happy with over the long haul. It is a very heavy handed stick, and nowhere near comfortable for my likes.

I simmed VERY regularly when I purchased my CH HOTAS. It's a fine stick for me. I've owned it for three years without a single problem. It centers and tracks as the day I bought it. When others made that claim I thought they were blowing smoke..... not so.

While you may not have to mod a Thrustmaster Cougar, many report the vast improvement with a modded Cougar over stock. A couple hundred more dollars to have a stick that performs as well as, and is as comfortable as my CH is more money than you'd spend on a CH anyway. (Modding isn't mandatory)

My recommendation is to check a store and try one (of each if you can)..... even if it's just to get the idea of how it feels in your mitts. Look around online to determine the price of modding a Cougar.

I did like the feel of the Cougar's throttle though, and love it's included rotaries.

All I can say is I definately don't regret my CH purchase. For me, my money, and my sim experience CH is everything I want it to be.

Viper2005_
08-19-2008, 07:16 PM
My Cougar is awesome - but it's modded.

Stock it was worse than the X-45 it replaced IMO.

If you're prepared to research the mods, and risk having to start again if you go for the wrong one, the Cougar is unbeatable IMO.

If you want to plug & play, I'd advise you to buy something else.

jayhall0315
08-19-2008, 10:44 PM
Hey Schwarz,
I have to agree with what Viper and Steiner said. I have had my CH Fighterstick/Pro Throttle/Pro Pedals for about four months now and have found them to be both TOUGH and ACCURATE. Absolutely no loss of precision on the Fighterstick even after flying 40 hour weeks back when I was a complete noob on summer vacation. The Control Manager software for CH Products is also badass. It is initially not that intuitive but after a week or so you realize that you can get your CH stuff to do almost anything (for example, I dont need a Track IR because I can use the software to set the mini-joystick on the Pro Throttle to look around in the same manner as a Track IR).

I also agree with Viper in that I did much research initially between the CH stuff, the X-52 Pro and the Cougar. Many of the reviews (including those on Amazon.com, Newegg.com and pricegrabber.com from real users) mention that the Cougar is not really that good out of the box. If you have another ~200 to 500 dollars to fully upgrade the Cougar HOTAS then perhaps it becomes the best of the best... but that is alot of lingerie for my wife http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. There have also been some problems with the quality of the gimbals used in the Cougar HOTAS and many people report the stick as having very stiff springs, so that you feel slightly fatigued after 2~3 hours. The CH Fighterstick on the other hand has relatively light springs and feels good for all nighters. If you have a CH product and then read about all these guys who post in the forums about stick problems and deadband issues, you just smile. The CH stuff is that precise.

As for me, I have been really happy with my CH stuff. The only things I can say poorly about it is it doesn't look 'bling' like the X-52 Pro and their are no rotary dials on the CH stuff which is sometimes very nice for the flaps and prop pitch settings.

Cheers,
Jay

TX-Gunslinger
08-19-2008, 11:18 PM
I'll give up my Cougar when they pry it out of my cold dead hands.

I have four. One is modded (use for every day) - I keep buying them for next to nothing just in case I do need the spare parts that everyone says I do. Have not used any yet - except for a throttle handle that got broke in airline baggage a few years ago.

One pot replacement (slider) in four years which the maker sent me free - no switch replacement - works like a champ.

With the right mod - nothing can touch it. In programmability - nothing can touch it. On the other hand - if you don't want to get into Cougar programming (takes time) then you'll never get maximum utility out of it.

For a stock Cougar - there is one very effective change that's very easy to make - which will reduce the stick forces by orders of magnitude.

Simply remove the rubber boot. Works wonders.

Do me a favor though, don't tell anyone about it - I've made a killing on used Cougars.

Some folks don't have the patience for complex things - and a Cougar is one.

A Cougar is a lot like the P-51 and Tempest in Il2 - if you just jump right in and run to QMB, these aircraft seem like dogs. With a lot of study, time and practice however they are two of the most dangerous A/C in the sim.

If you take a stock Cougar and rush to map buttons to direct X with the boot on, it sucks.

If you actually read the programming manual (it's not all that hard, just extensive), think about how to optimize it and work towards learning it's strenghts - there's nothing that compares (for me).

With the Uber2Nxt mod by IanJ (found in Frugals forums) - there's nothing that can touch it - real spring tension - gradual pressure with no center detent, plus you get two X, Y optical pots.

Please excuse my passion for my Cougar - it's served me incredibly well. I usually stay out of these joystick threads as passion heats up quickly. But once every two years or so I put in my piece.

Oh yeah, did I mention it's made of metal? Feels like a stick - not a toy.

210 pounds is way too much money for one however - you should be able to find one much cheaper on ebay or on sale.

Sooner or later, if you wait - someone without much patience will sell their almost brand new one at half that price.

S~

Gunny

foxyboy1964
08-19-2008, 11:29 PM
I've bought two Thrustmaster products. One was a gamepad which lasted less than six months before packing it in, the other was a FFB HOTAS set up, Top Gun Afterburner I think it was called, and it was DOA. So I would say go for the CH set up.

However, I would recommend Saitek X52 (yes, I know you said you're not interested http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif). I've had mine over two years now and it's as good as new, plus the software that comes with it is great. I think you can pick one up for about 70 now. It's a bargain mate, it really is.


EDIT: you could always get the CH fighterstick and one of these to go with it...

throttle quadrant (http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=4QZ8&SearchType=1&SearchTerms=saitek+throttle&PageMode=3&SearchKey=All&SearchMode=All&NavigationKey=4294955777)

...surely that would save a few quid?

P.FunkAdelic
08-20-2008, 02:01 AM
I'm also interested in a HOTAS unit. I'm a total noob though and still don't even own IL-2! I've played it at a friend's house though and I've been looking into it ever since. I borrowed the game once to see if my old machine would run it and... well it didn't so I had to wait. Now I've got a monster new rig (like Crysis on all high, high fps good) and want to get into IL-2.

I am pretty sure I'm going to grab an x-52 (not the pro) as its about $100 here in Canada and offers me a Hotas set up without going into the $200 mark.

I have possible long term ambitions to use possibly a CH Fighterstick WITH the X52's throttle and I think its possible given the fact that the X52 throttle is the main line to the machine and the X52 stick plugs into it. Can anyone tell me if that would work?

Any comments about the regular, non pro, x52? I don't think its worth the extra money since its about $80 up here more for what seems like cosmetic changes, maybe some slightly higher quality workmanship.

Also, to get totally off track, I don't suppose buying il-2 1946 of steam is a bad thing? I just wonder if it hinders the ability apply those controversial mods or change skins.

Cheers, and thanks for any help.

UgoRipley
08-20-2008, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by P.FunkAdelic:
.......Any comments about the regular, non pro, x52? I don't think its worth the extra money since its about $80 up here more for what seems like cosmetic changes, maybe some slightly higher quality workmanship.......
Plus, the Pro has HALL sensors in it, as opposite to "normal" potentiometers...

I have the Cougar and I love it. I modded its gimbals some years ago. As already said, it is the TOP (for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). It sure requires some care and some reading, but it pays back.
The forum at Cougarworld is an incredible source of ideas.

Chris0382
08-20-2008, 03:38 AM
Ive used a CH Flightstick for 20 yrs and just got a new CH Flightstick and Combatstick. I highly recommend them for quality.

I have a X52 Throttle because its loaded with analog sliders. I put aside the X-52 joystick and it sits un-used and is not needed.

CH all the way. Get a fighterstick for IL-2 at minimum. Combatstick if you are gaming with other games besides flightsims.

P.FunkAdelic
08-20-2008, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by UgoRipley:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by P.FunkAdelic:
.......Any comments about the regular, non pro, x52? I don't think its worth the extra money since its about $80 up here more for what seems like cosmetic changes, maybe some slightly higher quality workmanship.......
Plus, the Pro has HALL sensors in it, as opposite to "normal" potentiometers... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So theres more to the X52 Pro than just a better look? Interesting.

If I'm a total noob, and I'm completely virgin to the experience of IL-2, would I really notice the difference or care about hall sensors? Especially if down the road I'm thinking about getting a CH stick to go with it?

Also I get confused with the names. Which CH stick is the best one? The one you'd get for flight simming? I always thought that the fighterstick was the best of the 3 kinds they have.

Thanks for the answers guys! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

jayhall0315
08-20-2008, 04:56 AM
The Fighterstick is their high-end stick and usually costs about $95 if you use www.pricegrabber.com (http://www.pricegrabber.com) or something similar. The Combatstick is their mid-range stick and is usually about $75.

Please note that the CH sticks are not twist sticks (but the X-52, X-52 Pro and Cougar are); that is, you cannot turn the CH sticks to the left or right to control yaw (rudder). You can only push the sticks around the X-Y plane. Depending on who you speak to, this is either a positive or negative. The CH sticks are really designed to be used in a full HOTAS with a throttle and rudder pedal set (which they also manufacture). For someone who has the rudder pedals, this means CH sticks have one less thing that may become 'sloppy' over time.

All twist sticks allow torque to build up as they are twisted (torque = rotational inertia x angular acceleration) and this proves to be particularily hard on the gimbals or sensors used in many models (especially the regular X-45, X-52 and Logitech parts).

Something to think over.

Jay

Worf101
08-20-2008, 05:45 AM
I've had many joysticks over the year. I started out with CH products (broke two flightsticks, hey I'm a big guy). Migrated to Saitek (snapped off two triggers (hmm I see a trend here) and finally wound up with my current HOTAS hook up.

I run a Modded UberII Cougar with Halls sensor's all round and a set of Simped F16-C's (rip Dieter). It's simply the best set up I've ever owned. Since I don't smoke cigs, budd or drink I figure I'm allowed one vice and this is it. Anyone wants my modded Cougars gonna have to fight me to the death to get it. And since you can't get Simpeds any more, same goes for them.

Da Worfster

roybaty
08-20-2008, 08:34 AM
My COUGAR died after 3 years, and is sitting on a shelf.

I replaced it with a cheap X52 since I'm not doing too much simming these days. If/when new sims are released, I'll probably get a CH HOTAS.

Stingray333
08-20-2008, 09:40 AM
P.FunkAdelic, I have the X-52 pro, I am very happy with it. I hear that the Pro version uses better parts and has some internal improvements, not just cosmetic changes, though, I haven't used the vanilla X-52. But its great for me, tons of controls and the software to make profiles for the controller from saitek is great.

If you are new to IL-2 you might want to hold off getting a full HOTAS until you are sure the <STRIKE>addiction</STRIKE> hobby is one that you like. You can play quite well with a minimal joystick to begin with (as long as it has a twist rudder control), I used the Saitek Aviator joystick ($50 new) for my first 6 months and I have seen them on craigslist for $10-$15. It has two throttle controls and more than enough buttons to get you started.

IMHO it is more important to get TrackIR than a HOTAS at the beginning. Since your new, the game has quite a learning curve, and it will be sometime before you are being held back by your joystick. The level of immersion, fun and situational awareness you gain by using TrackIR is *huge*, once you start using it you will never be able to play a flight sim by trying to looking around with the mouse or hat switch again, it is that good. Just something to keep in mind.

Edit: yes, should be possible to use the X-52 throttle with the CH flight stick, just a matter of assigning everything properly within the game. AFAIK you can use up to 4 USB controllers with IL-2 without difficulty, but I think there are ways around this if need be.

foxyboy1964
08-20-2008, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by P.FunkAdelic:
I have possible long term ambitions to use possibly a CH Fighterstick WITH the X52's throttle and I think its possible given the fact that the X52 throttle is the main line to the machine and the X52 stick plugs into it. Can anyone tell me if that would work?

Any comments about the regular, non pro, x52? I don't think its worth the extra money since its about $80 up here more for what seems like cosmetic changes, maybe some slightly higher quality workmanship.

Also, to get totally off track, I don't suppose buying il-2 1946 of steam is a bad thing? I just wonder if it hinders the ability apply those controversial mods or change skins.

Cheers, and thanks for any help.

I can't think of any reason why using a CH stick with the X52 wouldn't work. It should be fine.

The X52 vanilla also uses Hall sensors, the Pro has more of them for a "smoother" response. Here's a quote from Saitek's site...

The X52 also uses magnetic hall effect, non-contact sensors for the stick movement, so you won't ever need to worry about employing a ground crew for regular services.

The X52 Pro uses the same magnetic hall sensor, non-contact technology as the X52 but we've doubled the number of sensors to improve response.

Don't buy 1946 on steam, get a disc.

Sokol__1
08-20-2008, 11:14 AM
Please note that the CH sticks are not twist sticks (but the X-52, X-52 Pro and Cougar are)

Cougar are NOT twist stick.
Only entry level Thrustmaster joys, like Afterburner, Fighter-X are twist stick.

Sokol1

JG52Uther
08-20-2008, 11:18 AM
Sorted:
CH Fighterstick/CH pedals/Saitek throttle quad.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/JG52Uther/throttle.jpg

foxyboy1964
08-20-2008, 01:11 PM
That's a very tidy gaming area you've got there Uther. I wish mine looked like that. Mine has an "air raid in progress" look about it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Stingray333
08-20-2008, 01:20 PM
here is my X-52 pro setup (I now have rudder pedals) and I have a mutilated saitek aviator acting as throttle quadrant

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/3255/flight1kh7.jpg

jayhall0315
08-20-2008, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Sokol__1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Please note that the CH sticks are not twist sticks (but the X-52, X-52 Pro and Cougar are)

Cougar are NOT twist stick.
Only entry level Thrustmaster joys, like Afterburner, Fighter-X are twist stick.

Sokol1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay, thanks for the correction !

Jay

ytareh
08-20-2008, 02:40 PM
I bought a Cougar and CH pedals and HATED them -went straight back to cheap Logitech Extreme 3d Pro twist grip stick in under a week.Theres a VERY steep learning curve with the pedals in particular -reckon on being 'put back' at least 6 months in your sim ability....And the Cougar apart from build quality(many desks will be at risk of collapse!) was underwhelming ...spring was floppy (yes weak spring esp 'in the centre'!-the arm aching tiredness people talk about is due to the mass of the thing and the stiffness around the outside of the 'gate/housing'...also throttle was harder to set at an exact percentage than my trusty Logitech(ok so theres software to tweak this stuff but you shouldnt need to!)...even slid around more !!!Sometimes I reckon people who buy a really dear product kinda need to convince themself and others that its all that!For example every graphics card upgrade Ive made since X800XT has if Im honest not really been earth shattering -come to think of it the 9800Pro before it wasnt that far behind ....I remember I once had a loan of an ATI 9000 and it seemed nearly as good as my old 9800pro...I guess in this game its more about the CPU...(sorry Im rambling now !)

Choctaw111
08-20-2008, 03:06 PM
I have a custom CH setup but I loved my CH setup before I customized it. I've had them for 5 years and are still going strong after VERY much use.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/SimChair/Switches1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/SimChair/PotatoFront1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/SimChair/SimChair.jpg

Please pardon the "Archie Bunker" era chair. It is very comfortable and has served me well for many years...plus I didn't feel one bit guilty about cannibalizing it and turning it into my "Sim Chair" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif
Shoot, I could fall asleep in this thing while flying, it is that comfy.

P.FunkAdelic
08-20-2008, 03:57 PM
If you are new to IL-2 you might want to hold off getting a full HOTAS until you are sure the <STRIKE>addiction</STRIKE> hobby is one that you like. You can play quite well with a minimal joystick to begin with (as long as it has a twist rudder control), I used the Saitek Aviator joystick ($50 new) for my first 6 months and I have seen them on craigslist for $10-$15. It has two throttle controls and more than enough buttons to get you started.

IMHO it is more important to get TrackIR than a HOTAS at the beginning. Since your new, the game has quite a learning curve, and it will be sometime before you are being held back by your joystick. The level of immersion, fun and situational awareness you gain by using TrackIR is *huge*, once you start using it you will never be able to play a flight sim by trying to looking around with the mouse or hat switch again, it is that good. Just something to keep in mind.

Edit: yes, should be possible to use the X-52 throttle with the CH flight stick, just a matter of assigning everything properly within the game. AFAIK you can use up to 4 USB controllers with IL-2 without difficulty, but I think there are ways around this if need be.
Yes I actually had been trying to get a Saitek Aviator off of Craigslist for $15 but the only one listed at the moment didn't give me a reply of any sort. Annoying sometimes how people abandon their listings after less than a week.

As for TrackIR I have determined that once I get IL-2 up and running with a decent joystick I'll take on the Freetrack modification for a webcam.

It is good advice for me, not getting an X52 right away. But the thing is that if I were to long term get a regular x52 and its about $105 right now where I am, and a brand new Aviator is $60, I might just want to get X52 and use that money difference to help pay for rudder pedals later on. However if I can get an Aviator for $15 then I won't hesitate.

As for IL-2 off of steam, well Im only tempted because it isn't in stores around here anymore. But I think I'll call up the local people and ask them if they can order it for me.

Onto another subject. I wonder who's rudder pedals are better. I just want to ask now so that I don't have to start a new thread later or even search. Is it CH or Saitek's? I read that Saitek's are nice because they have a wider stance, adnustable tension, and shoe size attachments. Any verdicts on that?

Cheers again, you guys are great.

Dr2GunzOD
08-20-2008, 04:27 PM
+1 for Cougar. I have had a stock version for roughly 1.5 yrs (actually have a spare in the box..good deal at compusa closeout). LOVE IT. I enjoyed learning how to program it. It is showing some wear in the paint etc but I use it several days a week. Came from a x-52, and still use the throttle and then the stick as a button bay. As it wears, I will look into modding it.

VMF-214_HaVoK
08-20-2008, 05:53 PM
I am very proud and satisfied CH Product owner. And from my personal experience there simply is no better gear for flight simming. I only wish I went with CH Products 6+ years ago.

S!

Schwarz.13
08-20-2008, 06:56 PM
Thanks for the replies guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Originally posted by foxyboy1964:
you could always get the CH fighterstick and one of these to go with it...

throttle quadrant (http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=4QZ8&SearchType=1&SearchTerms=saitek+throttle&PageMode=3&SearchKey=All&SearchMode=All&NavigationKey=4294955777)

...surely that would save a few quid?


Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Sorted:
CH Fighterstick/CH pedals/Saitek throttle quad.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/JG52Uther/throttle.jpg

@Foxy/Uther - your suggestion seems ideal for IL2 but TBH the reason i want to switch to HOTAS is to play Lock-On.

The Saitek quadrant/Fighterstick combo does look great, but the whole point of HOTAS is that you have just as many buttons/hats on your throttle as you do on your stick and therefore you shouldn't need to take your hands off either to mess about with keyboards etc.

@Gunny - thanks for the detailed post. TBH i really don't have the time/inclination to be modding a Cougar - if it's not gonna work perfectly out of the box i think i'd probably go with CH (but i still REALLY like the idea of those metal F-16 replicas http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif)...

Stingray333
08-20-2008, 07:23 PM
Choctaw111

Choctaw111, what are those buttons on your throttle? Buttons? Did you add those yourself? Either way, looks badass.

Stingray

foxyboy1964
08-20-2008, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Schwarz.13:
@Foxy/Uther - your suggestion seems ideal for IL2 but TBH the reason i want to switch to HOTAS is to play Lock-On.


Do CH sticks have a Mode function? The X52 has three Modes, which will be handy for all the buttons you'll need for LOMAC. In short, it triples the number of buttons you've got.

Stingray333
08-20-2008, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by foxyboy1964:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Schwarz.13:
@Foxy/Uther - your suggestion seems ideal for IL2 but TBH the reason i want to switch to HOTAS is to play Lock-On.


Do CH sticks have a Mode function? The X52 has three Modes, which will be handy for all the buttons you'll need for LOMAC. In short, it triples the number of buttons you've got. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that you have up to 6 modes! You can define shift modes, where you change the mode with a particular button pressed you can get up to 3 additional modes, however, 3 has been more than enough for me so far http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG52Uther
08-21-2008, 02:39 AM
Schwarze,I have everything mapped on that set up.I have 3 axis and 6 keys on the quadrant and IIRC you can map 144 different keys on the CH fighterstick. I could be wrong of course,but check out the CH Hanger site for more info.

stathem
08-21-2008, 03:11 AM
I might be into your ribs for some CH advice soon; my new Fighterstick should arrive tomorrow, replacing the X-52 stick.

Keeping the throttle, but the X-52 stick itself, I've had for 3 years and never really liked it, it being way sloppier than the Logitech freedom I started out on.

Hoping for an improvement.

UgoRipley
08-21-2008, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by jayhall0315:
....Please note that the CH sticks are not twist sticks (but the X-52, X-52 Pro and Cougar are)......
The Cougar is definetely NOT a "twist" stick.

Chris0382
08-21-2008, 04:24 AM
A CH stick with the X-52 throttle is great and Im liking it. The X-52 stick can go in the closet. A CH stick with a Franken-Potato modified CH throttle is the ultimate though.

UgoRipley
08-21-2008, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by foxyboy1964:
....The X52 also uses magnetic hall effect, non-contact sensors for the stick movement......
Ok. Rgr that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

x6BL_Brando
08-21-2008, 04:49 AM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
I am very proud and satisfied CH Product owner. And from my personal experience there simply is no better gear for flight simming. I only wish I went with CH Products 6+ years ago.

S!

S! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

+1 for CH Products

I'm into my seventh year of using a Fighterstick/ Pro Pedals combo - which has required absolutely ZERO spares in its lifetime, and still remains steady throughout every flight.

A couple of years ago I fitted the left-hand grip supplied by an enthusiast, and added the internals and buttons and rotaries of a second Fighterstick into the first, thereby creating the Franken-Tripehound. AFAIK it's the only HOTAS in existence for a one-armed flier.

B

Chris0382
08-21-2008, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
I am very proud and satisfied CH Product owner. And from my personal experience there simply is no better gear for flight simming. I only wish I went with CH Products 6+ years ago.

S!

S! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Oh post a picture of that with internals.

+1 for CH Products

I'm into my seventh year of using a Fighterstick/ Pro Pedals combo - which has required absolutely ZERO spares in its lifetime, and still remains steady throughout every flight.

A couple of years ago I fitted the left-hand grip supplied by an enthusiast, and added the internals and buttons and rotaries of a second Fighterstick into the first, thereby creating the Franken-Tripehound. AFAIK it's the only HOTAS in existence for a one-armed flier.

B </div></BLOCKQUOTE>