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LuckyBoy1
10-15-2004, 07:48 PM
I think we should all spend a total of what... $1-2.00 U.S. to mail a copy of our reciepts for the game to 1C games in Russia. This would be more than hot air in posts about piracy. It would be proof positive to the developer who did and didn't support the game. You make a copy of your reciept and scribble your online name on it and mail it off. Now, all we need is the address.... anyone?

LuckyBoy1
10-15-2004, 07:48 PM
I think we should all spend a total of what... $1-2.00 U.S. to mail a copy of our reciepts for the game to 1C games in Russia. This would be more than hot air in posts about piracy. It would be proof positive to the developer who did and didn't support the game. You make a copy of your reciept and scribble your online name on it and mail it off. Now, all we need is the address.... anyone?

Lt.Davis
10-15-2004, 07:56 PM
receipt can be fault! I suggest mail back the original box instead. lol

Obi_Kwiet
10-15-2004, 08:11 PM
How will it help? All of three people will get around to it.

Thud-487BS
10-15-2004, 08:28 PM
I think all this talk about piracy has done nothing more than start a witch-hunt.

VFA-195 Snacky
10-15-2004, 08:28 PM
Who are you to say I need a proof of purchase?lol

The problem with this whole thing is 1C is not protecting thier investment by refusing to use some sort of CD protection. It is impossible to prevent 100% of the Software piracy out there, but they could take at least some steps to cut down on it.
First thing they need to do is look at thier own beta teams and anyone with access to FTPs,etc and clean house. Get rid of the folks that have no need to be there. Get rid of those beta team members who don't contribute and who only show up to download the updates to pass on to thier buddies. I have seen this first hand on other projects.
You can't leave your garage open and rely on people's good nature to leave your stuff alone. Some kid on a bike is going to ride by, see the door open and rip you off.

We all respect Oleg and his team for the work he has done and the many hours of enjoyment he has given us, but since the original IL2 no steps have been taken to copy protect these games.

I'm sure 90% of the folks who visit this board plan on purchasing PF so that shouldn't be an issue, but there is nothing we can do beyond that to secure we will see future development. It is up to the Publisher and Developer to protect thier investment.

Lt.Davis
10-15-2004, 08:43 PM
1 thing i always thinking about, i have lots of games like strategy and FPS, all required a CD-key. But why FB/AEP don't have?

If cd-key + online register will cut down lots of 'pirated' pilot.lol

e5kimo
10-15-2004, 08:45 PM
luckyboy , i think with this post you have reached a new low. well done !

heywooood
10-15-2004, 09:46 PM
his heart is in the right place.

you cant chastise that.

e5kimo
10-15-2004, 09:56 PM
yea heart in the right spot maybe but what this whole piracy debate has produced in terms of utter BS is simply amazing.

heywooood
10-15-2004, 10:08 PM
not aware of a debate... but maybe you are right - maybe talking about how some people can steal from others is a waste of time.
Maybe the people who are victimized should just lie down and remember that they should expect to be robbed once in a while...yes - I'm sure you're right e5kimmer...stealing is GREAT.
(BtW I think the ppl that call it 'piracy' are trying to make common thievery sound 'coool')

I mean - in this particular case - its not MY money...it is someone elses. And why should this community care if there is a sizeable loss of revenue to 1c...thats their problem - they didn't lock the door. hmmmmm... I DO feel better now. Amazing.

Yep - all that research and programming and creativity and I'm entitled to it free of charge just by annonymously downloading it off the intranets...wooohooo.

steve_v
10-15-2004, 10:15 PM
Lucky's topic is not piracy. I am asking you please respect that and offer your insight/comments that pertain to the original idea.
Thanks.

heywooood
10-15-2004, 10:20 PM
provide the address and I will send my receipt the day I get PF...its no problem.

my response was to the innuit.

Spion1987
10-15-2004, 10:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VFA-195 Snacky:
Who are you to say I need a proof of purchase?lol

The problem with this whole thing is 1C is not protecting thier investment by refusing to use some sort of CD protection. It is impossible to prevent 100% of the Software piracy out there, but they could take at least some steps to cut down on it.
First thing they need to do is look at thier own beta teams and anyone with access to FTPs,etc and clean house. Get rid of the folks that have no need to be there. Get rid of those beta team members who don't contribute and who only show up to download the updates to pass on to thier buddies. I have seen this first hand on other projects.
You can't leave your garage open and rely on people's good nature to leave your stuff alone. Some kid on a bike is going to ride by, see the door open and rip you off.

We all respect Oleg and his team for the work he has done and the many hours of enjoyment he has given us, but since the original IL2 no steps have been taken to copy protect these games.

I'm sure 90% of the folks who visit this board plan on purchasing PF so that shouldn't be an issue, but there is nothing we can do beyond that to secure we will see future development. It is up to the Publisher and Developer to protect thier investment. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ubi only has itself to blame..again

steve_v
10-15-2004, 10:25 PM
my response was addressed to all, not you specifically heywooood. My bad. sorry.

LuckyBoy1
10-15-2004, 10:35 PM
Ok, so it is agreed that Luckyboy cares... about what we have no idea!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

I'm just throwing out ideas here and I think we can collectively work this one out. Good points about what UBI should be doing... still, that excuse will not get us further game development. My guess is that as the prifits drop, UBISoft may lose intesest in taking steps that would cost money up front for a game they may not have faith in as far as its possible sales. I would tend to think they want Oleg working on first person shooters and fantasy games. They are cheaper to produce, run on more computers and don't have nearly the demanding audience this headache of a game has for the developer.

The only thing that got you FB or ACE was Oleg saying something like... Ok, I'll do Raven Shield if you let me do ACE.

I like the idea of sending in one of the box ends to show our support.

We can sit around and point fingers or we can work something out here. As far as the witch hunt goes... you mess with the development of the last true combat flight sim game out there and I won't hunt you like a witch; I'll hunt you like the yellow dog you are!

Bearcat99
10-15-2004, 10:55 PM
And that would do what? Other than clog up 1Cs mailboxes..... just buy the d@mn sim.... the $$$ will speak for themselves.

heywooood
10-15-2004, 11:18 PM
" just buy the d@mn sim"..thats the general idear BC..whatever it takes.

and no worries steve_v http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-HH-Quazi
10-16-2004, 12:05 AM
It would be great to come up with an idea to stop people from pirating. Pirating causes allot of $$$ to be lost. And if too many $$$ are lost, then we may not have Oleg and 1C developing and/or expanding any more of the greatest prop sims on the planet. But how can it be stopped? If sending in box tops or upc codes from the boxes would help, then I am all for it. That might actually work if after they recieved your box top or upc code with your name and address, and possibly an ip address, that then they coulds send a file or some kind of code to your computer to activate the game(s). But all ip's don't stay the same. Or do it like BOE. I haven't heard of BOE being pirated. They have a cd code you have to register with, then they send you something via email to activate it. I think that is what I had to do, it has been so long ago. That was just a thought.

I really don't know how far 1C and/or UBI goes to protect their product from being pirated. I am sure they do something, but it doesn't seem to be getting the job done.

Reschke
10-16-2004, 12:21 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gifYou're taking a very big chance to openly discuss what I have deleted. Please refrain from doing so.

But that is way off topic here. I think that the fingers of piracy needs to be pointed right at the publishers and the Distrubutors as well as the companies who burn these CDs for the above organizations. It is somewhere along the lines that these games are getting sent out if they start showing up pre-release. So I think Ubisoft and all other game publishers need to look inside before they start slapping the hands that feed them (the developers). This way we still get the games but we don't get universally accused of using pirated copies of a game that I went and bought with my hard earned money.

LuckyBoy1
10-16-2004, 01:01 AM
All I know is that I don't want to lose the only serious flight sim developer we got going out there. I know the idea is lame, but maybe if 1C can show the support they're getting to UBI, then UBI might finally see the light and start taking measures to protect the game.

e5kimo
10-16-2004, 01:32 AM
luckyboy, your 'brilliant' idea is utterly and truely pointless. not only is it a colossal waste of money on postage, money that you should consider donating instead. what good does it do ? what do you expect maddox to do with a copy of your receipt ? send you a cookie ? spend half of their profits on maintaining a database of legit customers ? what the hell is the point of that ?
your idea does bugger all to combat piracy (or better thievery as not to upset some fragile souls with trust issues).
ubi will have the sales numbers and i am sure oleg will have access to them. so again, what is the point of this receipt action ? no point, yea i thought so.

now the idea of closing down sites that offer the download. gee you dont seem to have any understanding of how thievery/piracy works. american law can do bugger all to most of those sites as many of them are hosted offshore, many of them are constantly moving and bittorent or emule do not rely on direct downloads from servers but on distributed files across a number of machines all over the world. good luck , don quichotte, good luck fighting those windmills.

what we really need is the clear realisation that a fight against software pirates or piracy in general can not be won by increased punishments or stomping your feet demanding the closure of pirate networks.

what the industry has to realise is that it aint gonna go away and instead has to rethink their strategies offer incentive to potential customers to not go for pirated products and come up with innovative solutions such as micro payments for songs or direct marketing by developers like maddox when it comes to addons( cutting out the middle man offering a cheaper products, less package waste). another idea would be to extend the hand of peace and allow warez users to register their products and pay for a key at a price minus shipping, packaging and whatnot. an idea like that might outrage some of the righteous brothers but lets face it. bittorrent is a revolutionary and ingenius distribution system. why not make use of it ?

come up with decent security measures like online verification schemes, watermarking or even something like a digital ID card which will hold you responsible for your actions like your are held responsible for your behaviour while driving. but please stop trying to tell us that the products are so expensive because of piracy. music wasnt cheaper before mp3, going to the movies wasnt cheaper before divx and i remember paying $80 for an amiga game back in the days.

will this ultimately solve the problem of software piracy? no probably not but it might make the creator, inventor of a product a bit more money in the long term.

crime has been around forever. it is not likely going to go away because we want it to. dont kid your self. we are not going to have a utopia on earth. we never will. deal with it.

all we can do is try to press for a fundamental change and mailing receipts to russian aint gonna do it.

Burnzoire1
10-16-2004, 01:52 AM
I think everyone's looking at it the wrong way.

IL2 is a good game. Period. If it gets spread all over the globe before it's even out, then F#$% me they're getting quite a reputation! More people know of it and more people get into it, and hence, they go out and purchase it.

Now if someone makes a **** game and doesn't use cd protection then they're up **** creek. The game gets a bad reputation without many sales.

So therefore, I think Oleg is quite right to throw cd protection out the window (though piracy still is a concern). Do you really think the IL2 series isn't successful? There is no problem here, move on with your lives people!

edit: yes I own copies of IL2:FB, AEP, Lomac plus a few other UBIsoft titles such as Farcry and NWN + Expansion packs. I just happen to think piracy is like "free advertising". So long as there is an element that will never work with pirated versions (such as online play) then people will go out and buy it.

GAU-8
10-16-2004, 02:24 AM
eskimo,

i think you might be to hard on his idea.

although, I DO understand what you are saying, "what good will it do". against all the "P" hoopla around here..probably NOTHING... but, if looked at in a different light, you can say his idea is a movement for simmers to do a "PERSONAL PLEDGE"... OLEGs company needs money , im very sure. but money isnt everything. in many cases, you cant "see" what money does...but can see it with contributions

isnt it ever nice to recieve a thank you note? i think in a small gesture, if oleg opened mail and personally saw boxtops, or receipts, and each one had said...

" BEARCAT 99.. I thank you for this sim"
"online as 380thBG+GAU-8+.... thanks OLEG!"
" i am AFJ LOCUST "thumbs up!"
"thank you!...make more. baldie JR."
"online at HL, as CRAZY IVAN"
"thanks OLEG!- ICEFIRE"

or whatever

its a PERSONAL "thank you" it might not matter in number crunching, but it matters in the heart...and im sure oleg has one.

where do i send. can we get an adress avail?

oleg probably wont send a cookie, nor will he make a database for it.. but i bet a kick@ss WALL of personal"pledges" would be pretty cool.

dont attack someone for thinkin differently.

Zen_Fighter
10-16-2004, 03:04 AM
Personally I don't think that the real sim community won't buy the game. Maybe a small percentage will not, but this percentage would not buy it in any case if they had no other choice than getting their "stolen" copy.
There are so many things that matter in piracy behaviour, that I believe that especially 1C is in a very lucky position of having real devoted customers, who would buy the game even if it was found out under their Christmass Tree by Santa Clauss. And you know why 1C is lucky to have these customers? It's because it's (maybe) the only game company who releases a product that actually worths its money a lot. And this is understood by the customers who are not idiots (nor thieves). I have never heard of any IL2 customer who said, "****, this game didn't worth its money". So what I say is that we should not get in panick for these leaked PF's cause as soon as it reaches the stores everyone who would buy it, will buy it in any case. And everyone who would not buy it, will not buy it in any case.

I guess these sound reasonable to all of you.

Best regards

JG54_Arnie
10-16-2004, 03:14 AM
Hmm, I'd still like to be able to bring back the CD if it breaks thank you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

1C and UBI can see the numbers sold for themselves no? No need to prove how righteous every forum member is IMO. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yellonet
10-16-2004, 03:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuckyBoy1:
I think we should all spend a total of what... $1-2.00 U.S. to mail a copy of our reciepts for the game to 1C games in Russia. This would be more than hot air in posts about piracy. It would be proof positive to the developer who did and didn't support the game. You make a copy of your reciept and scribble your online name on it and mail it off. Now, all we need is the address.... anyone? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So, if you don't buy PF? Then what? You'll get banned for not owning the game?

Bad idea.

NegativeGee
10-16-2004, 04:17 AM
Okay okay, good intentions I see LuckyBoy1.

But using receipts as some sort of regisration method won't work. How do you tie the receipt to a copy of the game on a machine? even if its possible is it economic?

I think the biggest thankyou we could give is everybody who wants to play PF being honest and buying a license to use it. I'm sure the guys at 1C: Maddox would like the sound of that when they get their royalty payments through.

GAU-8
10-16-2004, 04:46 AM
YELLOWNET,

how is it a bad idea?

again. read his message, it just shows them
'PROOF POSITIVE" of who's USING it... nothing more nothing less.

he said NOTHING of using receipts as a way to "track and hunt" those who dont use it.. it is a statement that "LUCKYBOY1" is a bonifide PF user... or whoever send it in.. i think its a simple, but great idea. even though initially it doesnt do anything.. as i said earlier its kind a like a "simmers pledge".. that COULD be directed to oleg, for him to personally see.

WOLFMondo
10-16-2004, 05:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuckyBoy1:
It would be proof positive to the developer who did and didn't support the game. You make a copy of your reciept and scribble your online name on it and mail it off. Now, all we need is the address.... anyone? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not go the same way as the battle.net forums? For a user to post they require you to use your CD-key in your forum account. At least that way people with duplicate keys can be IP banned from the forum or at least they cannot post. Its not a reciept, but its as good as one.

Beirut
10-16-2004, 05:47 AM
Holy smackin', some of you guys really descended upon Lucky Boy pretty hard. What's the problem?

A guy has an idea to support an activity we all take part in (we're all here aren't we?), posts it and the flames couldn't come fast enough.

I'm not saying it's the perfect idea, but at least someone is thinking out loud how to ameliorate the situation regarding the developer and his concerns about piracy.

What the hell is wrong with that? What a bunch of hard-a$$es.

jtasker
10-16-2004, 06:15 AM
If you are really that set on supporting 1C then keep the receipt and send them 1-2 Dollars US http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

CapBackassward
10-16-2004, 08:02 AM
I thought when you bought a game and it ask you to register (at the end of the install) that this verified it as a legit copy. Is this not the case?

Rick

clint-ruin
10-16-2004, 08:20 AM
There's nothing wrong with Luckyboys idea. I'm sure the guys at Maddox would appreciate it if someone did send along a real physical letter or a note of support or whatever, the same way it's nicer to get a real letter rather than an email from anyone.

I think that if you really wanted to help out you should find a way to paypal them the postage money directly :&gt;

Seriously, this is not the time for soapbox rants about piracy, free advertising, "lost" sales, etc. Maddox has directly posted that the future of their sim line is in danger of losing the kind of support we've seen in the past, as a result of unspectacular sales. Theoretical arguments about the true financial cost of piracy are moot at this point. You know that message at the bottom of every NFO telling you to buy the game and support developers? Well, here's your chance to make that a sincere rather than cynical request.

While I am sure that the guys in R******D who escaped the last bunch of FBI raids are going to be difficult to bust, there are ways of taking down distribution networks that go outside of legal channels. Just be bloody careful doing this if you're going to do it. Fortunately many distro people - who I am sure would be the first to blame publishers for poor security in the event of hack/crack events - are typically pretty **** at securing the networks their bots and servs run off. There are weak links in the chain that don't take a lot of knowhow or effort to tip over.

LuckyBoy1
10-16-2004, 08:25 AM
The idea here is NOT to try and build a database showing who's naughty and nice so much as it is a way of helping 1C show UBISoft that there is support for the game and continuation of same. Maybe if we did this, UBI would realize the game is worth both taking steps to stop piracy at their end and also promote the game the way it should be promoted.

Weather_Man
10-16-2004, 09:15 AM
I think Oleg would rather see royalty checks in his mailbox than customer receipts. Or, maybe even a thank you letter to give him a smile would be better?

BPO6_PANP
10-16-2004, 09:58 AM
~S!
How about doing both http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Send a copy of your reciep with a thank you note http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

609IAP_Recon
10-16-2004, 10:04 AM
does Oleg accept cash contributions via mail?

I'll gladly sent him send if this is an issue.

Is he legally allowed to accept these contributions?

I mean, I was going to buy 2 copies - but I could buy one copy and send him my $40 for the second instead.

No big deal

e5kimo
10-16-2004, 10:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> NegativeGee. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
negativegee, are you powder , ex bnc, now moo ????
edit: if pf course you dont know who bnc or moo are , then please .. nevermind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif just curious ..

clint-ruin
10-16-2004, 10:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 609IAP_Recon:
does Oleg accept cash contributions via mail?

I'll gladly sent him send if this is an issue.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd not see any problem with just sending Oleg some money - be aware that for tiny amounts the currency conversion costs tend to make it a waste of time. PayPal are a bunch of .. well, they're PayPal, but for small amounts they tend to work out cheaper. Of course, then you need Oleg to have an account with them too ..

The thing is though - as far as being a developer goes, reputation is much more built on sales and market demographics rather than critical acclaim. While it would make me happy to cut UBI out of the deal entirely if need be, their advance for 1cs next project depends on the sales numbers of PF, not how big Olegs bank account is. To self fund this kind of thing you start to get into 6-7 figures, at least to do it in the west, and then you have to shop for a publisher who has enough pull to get it into a thousand EBs anyway.

So as annoying as it is to have to deal with retailers and publishers and have them take a cut, it's probably the most helpful thing for 1cs future health.

Oleg has had to refuse donations of kidneys before :&gt;

609IAP_Recon
10-16-2004, 11:04 AM
good point - I will just buy 2 copies - money isn't the issue- I mean, what is $40 - I play hundreds of hours - this game is quite cheap

M_0_3
10-16-2004, 11:16 AM
Hi everybody,

I'm a long time IL-2 v-pilot, first-time poster (i think anyway, if it's not my first post it's been years since I last posted.).

The moment I saw the posts about leaks jeopardising future 1C:Maddox developments, the idea of a 1C:Maddox paypal account, which has been touched on here by a few people, seemed like a good solution to me.

Those of us who have been playing IL2 from day one and got all the benefits of the updates and patches would probably agree that a 15-20 (euro/pound/dollar) donation would not be unreasonable. People who are new to IL2 with the release of PF probably wouldn't agree until about a year from now when we would hopefully have received several updates and patches and at that point a donation of 15-20 again wouldn't seem unreasonable. Especially when you consider that most retail add-ons cost that much if not more.

And this money would go straight to the developers and not have chunks eaten up by publishers and distributors. They get their piece from our retail purchase. This would be more of a thank you for all the hours of entertainment and real value added to the game.

And to borrow another idea, the community could get together behind a "thank you" letter written by some of the better-known members. Receipts could be gathered at this point and included with the letter. Maybe a CD with scans of the receipts/box tops would be more environmentally friendly. Recycle your receipts instead, once you are happy that your copy is working.

Just a suggestion.

LuckyBoy1
10-16-2004, 03:52 PM
Excellent Ideas M_O_3!!!

The idea of including some form of proof that you paid for the game will show UBI that there is support from those who actually like, but the game. If we don't include some evidence that we purchased the game, UBI could say 60% of the letters were from pirates of the game.

I've been speaking with Racer X, a guy who works in the IT department for the 10th largest spammer in the U.S. He says keys can work effectively as long as it is set up correctly. You can set it up cheap and the hacks can quickly go around it. You can do it right, but it is an upfront investment. The letters along with proof of purchase would go a long way to show UBI that it is worth the investment.

ploughman
10-16-2004, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> posted Sat October 16 2004 08:15
I think Oleg would rather see royalty checks in his mailbox than customer receipts.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In a well ordered universe the latter leads to the former.

Old_Canuck
10-16-2004, 04:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ploughman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> posted Sat October 16 2004 08:15
I think Oleg would rather see royalty checks in his mailbox than customer receipts.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In a well ordered universe the latter leads to the former. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I swore I'd never pre-order again after the UBIdisaster when AEP arrived weeks late BUT just pre-ordered and pre-payed $57.24 Canadian to EB Games for Pacific Fighters. It's supposed to arrive on November 13 by the way. Felt so strong about it I hardly noticed the daggers shooting out of my wife's eyes when I signed the VISA bill. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

BaldieJr are you reading this? You might want to buy PF BEFORE the wedding. Just a suggestion.

DuxCorvan
10-16-2004, 05:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
(BtW I think the ppl that call it 'piracy' are trying to make common thievery sound 'coool') <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I can't even undersand what is so cool and romantic in the real pirates (the ones with a patch and a parrot). They were just criminal gangs in a boat. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

As for the topic, I think UBI should clean the house right now. It's obvious this is the work of someone inside the production/distribution chain. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

There's not much we can do here in Western world. Someone will burn the unprotected game in CDs and sell them massively in Russia, China and other countries were anti-piracy measures are ineffective or almost inexistent, and where circulate the 80% of pirate copies. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Our support is surely appreciated, but is only moral help. The only thing we can do is: buy the game. UBI's financial & marketing staff counts the income, not the receipts. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

clint-ruin
10-16-2004, 06:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Yeah, I can't even undersand what is so cool and romantic in the real pirates (the ones with a patch and a parrot). They were just criminal gangs in a boat. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shh :&gt;

edit: http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/477.gif very off topic http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
As for the topic, I think UBI should clean the house right now. It's obvious this is the work of someone inside the production/distribution chain. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Here is who groups look for [from the group who "released" the AEP expansion]:

You think you can contribute to the scene too? You have one or more talents in:
- suppliers who work for any software shops/stores like:
Electronic Boutique, Babbages, GAME, HMV, Dixons, Virgin or any software place at all!

- suppliers for new unreleased store/shop games that have access to a fast upload 300k+ internet connection.

- network or security administrators on fast 10mb plus internet links, who have full control and responsibility over their fast links.

- supplying new unreleased games (maybe you work at a game/util magazine, courier delivery firm, newspaper, game press/marketing company, distributor, publisher, duplicator, tv/radio show, shop, warehouse, design firm, language translation company, packing company store etc). No need for a fast internet connection for this =]

- you are a coder who can code your own tools to automatically remove commercial iso protections like the latest versions of any of the following: SafeDisc or Securom or Tages or VOB or Laserlok or StarForce.

- are you able to write your own source code to unpack & repack custom game related file formats.

If you can meet one or more of our above requests and want to be a part of the fun today, e-mail us. Use the contact information given below.

So really, you're looking at just about anybody. Clearing house would involve sacking an awful lot of people, and not all of them would have anything to do with UBI or 1c. Most smart devs, these days, burn off custom review copies for tracking purposes, though they have to hope that whoever releases it doesn't find and remove the watermark too.

It's a difficult problem to solve, and nothing anyone has come up with has worked 100%. The best you can do is hope to buy some time so that your game sits on a shelf for at least a day or two before it's re-released on the internet for free. Wouldn't surprise me if 1c view anything beyond their simple cd check as a waste of time - it is. They should absolutely implement cd keys for online play - no need to use ubi.com, just have a master authentication server for keys only a la Quake3. This can be gotten around too, but it pretty much assures that anyone playing a pirate game needs to connect to a whole other set of servers, different from the official ones, and that capability can be a **** long time coming for the would-be pirate.

Bearcat99
10-16-2004, 11:30 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

heywooood
10-16-2004, 11:34 PM
exactly Clint - theft is all part of the game.

unfortunately it is today an ALLSTAR player in the game.

It is as you say a day to day proposition for these software developers...they must fight to protect their product during developement so it doesn't get copied and distributed illegally prior to official release. This is why 'Pre-sale' is so vital...that is the only way they can realize any capitol return for their work.

How many of you want to bet that preorder sales took a nose dive the second PF showed up on the 'net? Thats where the estimates came from bro....believe it.

You want to help 1c?..Pre order direct from them.. you want to appreciate Oleg and Co.???

Pre order their product.
Sure - you might get PF sooner if you run to the store on the day it is released but if this is the only way to ensure that hard working, honest people get the payday they deserve (and that BoB is fully funded and supported) then it is well worth the wait to me.

If I hadn't already ordered from EB I would have ordered from UBI - maybe soon we can order direct from 1c.

oddglob
10-17-2004, 05:15 AM
I must say I like the idea of an 1C Maddox PayPal "donation" account.

Every 1C Maddox game I have bought (IL2, FB, AEP) has been priced about 20% less than full priced games by most other developers. In some cases even slightly less again.

I would be quite happy to donate the difference.

If Microsoft insisted on charging me $100 when CFS2 came out 4 years ago and $100 when Flight Simulator 2004 came out, then I am happy to pay $100 for PF. That means $79.95 to the shop and a $20 PayPal donation to Oleg and his mates.

PriK
10-17-2004, 10:21 PM
I could have sworn I made a post earlier in this thread with the simple suggestion that you can just buy 2 copies instead of this snail-mail receipt spam idea

RiesenSchnauzer
10-18-2004, 01:25 AM
Music sites have single song downloads. I am curious why Oleg and Ubi don't charge for small add-on downloads. Of course patches should be free but I never understood just giving away extra planes especially if money is tight. With PF I would happily pay for add-on downloads.

The only other suggestion that seems to make practical sense is to buy an extra copy and give it as a gift to someone.

I guess I would say that if UBI wants support from the die hard fans they need to take the lead in how to show it. Just threatening the future of flight sims doesn't really do much.

Fliegeroffizier
10-18-2004, 12:51 PM
Charge for the Add-On downloads...it wouldn't have to be much, maybe just $4 or $5 each...Use Paypal or a similar pay-online option....
90% of all holders of PF(or any other Oleg/1C flight Sim) would gladly pay such a small amount....Every Add-on has offered Many dollars worth of extra Aircraft and features!

Those who would Not want to pay for such a downloadable Addon can choose to not do so, and wait until the next StandAlone $40 product comes out...it's their choice.

Given one or two pay Add-0n's (as opposed to the simple and Free Bug-correcting patches), and the many hundreds of thousands of PF copies which will be out there, downloadable Pay Add-ons could put A Million or Two into Oleg/1c's pot.

Oleg has simply been too good to the community...too many Free Add-on's! Each of his main FlightSim products has been an Excellent value...no one could complain that the basic games(IL2, or FB, or AEP) were not worth the $40 price, and then some! Those who refuse to pay, say $4, for each downloadable Add-on can continue using just the basic game/sim and still enjoy every minute of it.

I think the number of people who would be so despicably Cheap that they would scurry around(like rats in the sewer) searching out others of their ilk to pass around free copies of the downloaded add-on patch would be incredibly small... I have to believe that more than 90% of people have personal pride and would not try to screw Oleg and company out of such a small fee. I, personally, would be ashamed to ask a buddy to send me a patch which he had paid for, so that I could save a measely $4.00 If you'll recall the "Who We Are Thread", there would appear to be very few of us who are young enough(or unemployed,livingon a shoestring) that we are on a weekly allowance and might not be to spend $5.00

So I vote for No More Free Downloadable Add-ons/patches(other than free bug-correcting patches as may be Necessary). IMHO

Capt.England
10-18-2004, 01:58 PM
As far as I understand sales, Don't the shops pay up front for software from company's, or is it sale or return? If shops pay up front, then no matter how many copy's we all buy, Oleg has already got his money from the shops.

Can someone who knows tell us how sales work out http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

clint-ruin
10-18-2004, 02:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.England:
As far as I understand sales, Don't the shops pay up front for software from company's, or is it sale or return? If shops pay up front, then no matter how many copy's we all buy, Oleg has already got his money from the shops.

Can someone who knows tell us how sales work out http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have it right about returns to the publisher, as far as I know. But if there are many unsold copies, or if the retailers don't expect to sell many, then UBI are very unlikely to have an easy time a) justifying BOB funding, b) convincing retailers to stock Olegs next sim. The market just for a -space- on a shelf is insanely competative at times. And a lot of the distributers and larger chains have a very, very long memory for duds.

Alec_George
10-18-2004, 02:29 PM
I think Straforce 2 will be just the right answer.
It will take crackers 1-2 months to find the file with protection code. By this time all hot shots will by the game. And after 3 months after release there will be legit copies for sale twice less original price anyways.

Although I understand Oleg's approach too - enstead of screwing honest folk with copy protection glitches he just assumes that dedicated funs will buy the game regardless of "great offer" on internet (you know what i mean just don't want my post deleted http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif)

MK2aw
10-18-2004, 05:28 PM
uuuuhhh...guys.....they know how many were sold....what is the point?

Mk2aw

SKULLS Virga
10-18-2004, 05:54 PM
I agree that Luckyboy's heart is definitely in the right place but I just can't help but picture Luthier with a letter opener, cut fingers and 660,000 envelopes piled around his desk. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LuckyBoy1
10-18-2004, 06:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SKULLS Virga:
I agree that Luckyboy's heart is definitely in the right place but I just can't help but picture Luthier with a letter opener, cut fingers and 660,000 envelopes piled around his desk. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy! No, no, no, just kidding. Actually, I'd guess it would suite him right down to the ground. He'd be able to bundle 'em all up and give some poor french loading dock person at UBISoft a hernia!

Also, I think we as individuals should get the word out about this game. I mean really, it's got the Western front, the Eastern front and the Pacific. It isn'y just the most complete plane set out there. It is the most realistic and visually stunning (and I've found out great on sound as long as you have an audigy card) game out there. As long as the server is set up correctly, there isn't much of a chance to cheat. We need to spread the word. Yes, an investment in both ACE Gold Pack and Pacific fighters seems high at first, but how many games have people bought and played maybe 20 hours at the most and never play it again? For the hours played, this game is cheap for sure. As it stands, a new player could easily play this game for two years and not master it!

Future-
10-18-2004, 06:57 PM
Without reading any postings in here except the first one and the three prior to mine, I simply agree with MK2aw:

they will know how many copies get sold... and unless you desperately look for an opportunity to be Mr.Super-Nice-Guy, I think it's more than enough if you just post here that you bought it - and if it makes you feel better, add a picture of your reciept to your posting.

S! to a nice yet unnecessary idea

RACFrankenstein
10-18-2004, 07:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
I swore I'd never pre-order again after the UBIdisaster when AEP arrived weeks late BUT just pre-ordered and pre-payed $57.24 Canadian to EB Games for Pacific Fighters. It's supposed to arrive on November 13 by the way. Felt so strong about it I hardly noticed the daggers shooting out of my wife's eyes when I signed the VISA bill. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just checked with EB Games today and they said the release date is now the 22nd of Oct.

LuckyBoy1
10-18-2004, 07:34 PM
If UBI was smart, they'd release it now! All they are doing by making us wait is encourage more pirating!

AFJ_Locust
10-19-2004, 03:41 AM
Why would you do that ?

Thats like me Mailing a copy of my reciept back to Levi's after a bought a pair of them ?

why do that ?

NerdConnected
10-19-2004, 05:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuckyBoy1:
If UBI was smart, they'd release it now! All they are doing by making us wait is encourage more pirating! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What Ubi/Maddox at least could have done was a very simple measure to prevent an much too early release.

E.g. distribute the data cd's whithout the core files like il2fb.exe and maybe some other important dll's. When the offical release date is there, Ubi/Maddox provide a (possibly registered) download location for these files.

This way, torrent kiddies will have to wait at least as long as real buyers that preordered from Ubi/Maddox or other distribution channels. A kiddie in the production facility can still copy the cd's but they're useless.

This is a very easy and customer friendly way to prevent early releases I guess. Ubi/Maddox could have at least tried this approach. The problem of copying still exists ofcourse and need DRM-like solutions.

My 1 cent.....

Mark