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tcar_101
06-01-2006, 03:24 AM
Ok sorry everyone for being so ignorant but can you answer a few questions for me? Hope so. I am no flightsim newbie btw- I am a big LOMAC fan..

I don't get this game. There is a lot of hype going around about these flight sims so I finally stumped up the cash for the gold pack IL-2/FB/PF and well, (1) how the hell do you learn to do anything? I have done all the training missions, I have done a few landings on carriers, a few single missions etc but I still have this unmistakable feeling that I don't have a clue what I'm doing.

For example, when I take off behind a group of other, identical planes, they dissappear into the sky. I can't keep up! What am I missing here?

Whats with all the barking of heading orders mid dogfight? What should I be doing? If I don't nail this sucker he'll nail me and my group leader is screaming "heading 020 you idiot" at me. WTF?!!

For example, I started the peal harbor single mission for the japanese, took out a couple of fighters, got to the ships and then couldn't drop a single bomb! And more concerningly, I can't find anywhere the controls to do so, even on the net! I assume its assigned to one of my joystick buttons but seriously, how am I supposed to know which one?

Also, (2) what is going on with these campaigns? I started one last night and in two missions I haven't seen a single enemy. Am I missing something? Where does the fun start? The campaigns have a few lines of text telling you mostly irrelevant tit tat about some advancing front and then bang you're in the mission. Is this supposed to be a replication of what it was really like - did pilots not know what was happening? I seriously have no desire to enter another campaign - they are so well, weak and diluted and random and completely non-addictive. hmmm...

I think I'm just having a lot of difficulty 'getting into' this sim. (4) Where is the hook? I love the flight model, its great, flighting the stick to stay in a tight, turning dogfight is the only high point so far (loving the trackIR support). But what else? I don't get it!!

Please infect me with some of your enthusiasm, please....

Cheers,

Tom


Advice to WWII RAF pilots: "when a prang (crash) seems inevitable, endevour to strike the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity as slowly and gently as possible".

GAU-8
06-01-2006, 04:01 AM
WELCOME ABOARD tcar_101!

im not as good as the other guys to quickly give out GOOD answers, but i ll give you the basic idea.

.there is a known problem with taking off and the A.I. planes ALWAYS going too fast to cath up. been this way since day one. you wont catch up..

. barking orders.. you can get rid of voices entiresly thru the config ini , in the IL-2 folder. (i cant remember exactly what line, but someone can tell you how to do it, and the same with subtitles.) doing so will turn off (but not REMOVE) all the ingame voice, and subtitles.

. IL-2 has 3 or 4 buttons for dropping/shooting weapons. might have missed the latter assignment key.

.campaigns- it depends on what difficulty settings you set FOR that campaign. it IS VERY difficult to find enemies, when not used to the sim, and with several forms of ICONS "off"

. the "hook" is the same hook as playing golf! "love this game love this game love this game I HATE THIS GAME!!!!!..love this game love this game" just like golf...simple for the BASICS, moderate to learn, IMPOSSIBLE to master.

i know how you feel, i tried for months adjusting to lomac after learning so much about IL-2 (and felt precisely the way you did, but towards lomac at first). stick with it, ask questions when you have a difficult spot, and most of all DONT QUIT! after a few weeks of familiarity with it..youll see the love http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

this is a "learned art" so to speak. not flaming lomac at all, but this is during a time without radar/targeting computers, fly by wire, triple redundancy safety items. so there are many hand/eye/tactical coordination scenarios that change almost every second, that YOU must recognise and act apon.

tcar_101
06-01-2006, 04:40 AM
Hey thanks GUA. Very reassuring.

About the take off bug - its funny that if a game has even a couple of inexplicable problems like that, you feel like you don't know whats going on! I feel better already!

Cheers,
Tom

p.s Seems like a nice online community - is this the product of a higher average age I wonder....

mrsiCkstar
06-01-2006, 05:15 AM
I've never really experienced not being able to catch up with my wingmen after take off... I usually get in formation just fine. on long flights to target I just put on autopilot...

don't mean to sound like I'm superior to everyone else here, which of course I am. (superior at getting owned that is)

the training and the key commands are the sim's 2 biggest flaws in my opinion. make sure that in the main menu of the sim you go into Controls and assign all the controls to where you want them to be... that's the first thing I do. so instead of having to memorize the default commands I make my own and I have a good understanding of those.

bogusheadbox
06-01-2006, 06:58 AM
MrsiCkstar. Putting on Autopilot on or before take off will mean that the AI will fly your plane at the same parameters as the other AI planes. That is why you always keep up.

But that takes away the immersion of flying the mission from start to finish unaided.

However if you did not use Autopilot, then your plane would be subject to the different flight model to that of the AI planes and would find it hard to keep up.

Here is a little tip on how to keep up with your flight.

After take off. Do not try to climb with them. Sacrifice height for speed and only climb as needed in order to keep your speed up.

This way you will find that you will keep up with them in distance but will eventually match them in height. 90% of the time you will join formation with them before you are at target.

Once in formation though. You will be ok.

The hook of this game over lomac is the incredible online community. THe online wars are simply second to none in any combat flight sim.

There are no differences in online mode aswell as all aircraft are subject to their respective flight and damage models.

So if i was you, get the games merged. Add on the last expansion (that may be a bit tricky) and get onto Hyperlobby. Once you do, you will KNOW why this IS the king of combat simulators.

dtk419
06-01-2006, 07:31 AM
Welcome tcar, I've been with this sim for 2+ years, still learning and discovering new aspects, I started in QMB (Quick Mission Builder) you can set up the scenerio, where you take off from, what & number of enemy planes, how many friendlys etc... I used the same plane for a long time, but eventually became able to control it well (not very well). Don't try to land on carriers, that will come in time. The easiest to fly is the A6M2 1940 (Zero) turns very tight and doesn't stall that easy. imho.. Some people put up friendly bombers and shoot at them to develop their gunnery skills (they don't shoot back like enemy planes).
Stick with it, ask all the questions you want, we're here to help. You won't regret it.
Pooka

tcar_101
06-01-2006, 08:01 AM
Cheers to all you guys for the replies. I will persist and go online.

Oh yeah, about the online stuff.
I assume the game installed 'merged' since it was the combined edition, but what is the 'latest expansion' and why is that tricky to install?

Oh and btw I don't have much trouble with the enemy AI so I hope you guys are online to give me a thorough hiding!!

For anyone looking for a landing challenge, you think carrier landings in PF are a might tricky? They are trivial compared to a F-15 zero vis landing in lomac. I make one of those 1 in every 3 times, compare that to my first carrier landing in PF which went fine ( well ish - I ended up a bit close to port-side, well actually i had a wheel half-on half-off)

Great replies. Great community. Great game? I guess I'll find that out in the next few weeks.

Cheers again,

Tom

mortoma1958
06-01-2006, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by GAU-8:
WELCOME ABOARD tcar_101!

im not as good as the other guys to quickly give out GOOD answers, but i ll give you the basic idea.

.there is a known problem with taking off and the A.I. planes ALWAYS going too fast to cath up. been this way since day one. you wont catch up..

. barking orders.. you can get rid of voices entiresly thru the config ini , in the IL-2 folder. (i cant remember exactly what line, but someone can tell you how to do it, and the same with subtitles.) doing so will turn off (but not REMOVE) all the ingame voice, and subtitles.

. IL-2 has 3 or 4 buttons for dropping/shooting weapons. might have missed the latter assignment key.

.campaigns- it depends on what difficulty settings you set FOR that campaign. it IS VERY difficult to find enemies, when not used to the sim, and with several forms of ICONS "off"

. the "hook" is the same hook as playing golf! "love this game love this game love this game I HATE THIS GAME!!!!!..love this game love this game" just like golf...simple for the BASICS, moderate to learn, IMPOSSIBLE to master.

i know how you feel, i tried for months adjusting to lomac after learning so much about IL-2 (and felt precisely the way you did, but towards lomac at first). stick with it, ask questions when you have a difficult spot, and most of all DONT QUIT! after a few weeks of familiarity with it..youll see the love http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

this is a "learned art" so to speak. not flaming lomac at all, but this is during a time without radar/targeting computers, fly by wire, triple redundancy safety items. so there are many hand/eye/tactical coordination scenarios that change almost every second, that YOU must recognise and act apon. All due respect but why are you telling him "he won't catch up" to other aircraft??
I can keep up with ALL the AI aircraft in the game when taking off as the last in line. It can be done and easily done. Just not as easy for newcomers to the game. As a matter of fact, if I take off as number four plane in a flight of four planes, the others being AI, I can get in formation before number three AI planes does in most types of aircraft!!! You just have to know what you're doing and it's not that hard once you learn, no challenge to it really.

There are a couple aircraft that have the default cruise speed set too high in the Dgen mission generator files though. Good example is the FM-2 Wildcat. Even I had trouble keeping up in that one since it's missions are in the hot Pacific and it overheats like crazy. It's default cruise speed was set to 400Kph and it's barely capable of that if flown by humans. The AI do not overheat so they left me slightly behind. I edited a file and changed it's cruise speed to 370KPh so now I can keep up with the AI. There was one other plane so affected but I can't remember what it was.

But please don't tell newcomers they can't keep up when I could teach them to easily keep up in all the planes and edit the files of the two planes that are true offenders speedwise.

Want proof?? I can show you tracks of me keeping up in any plane. Just name the plane. Then I can
teach you to easily do it yourself.

mortoma1958
06-01-2006, 11:10 AM
Oh yea, the other plane I had a little trouble keeping up in was the Spitfire Mk. V ( the higher altitude version on the Kuban map ). I slowed down the AI cruise speeds a tad by editing a similar file.

Some types of Zeroes and all the KI-43 are tough to keep up in but by careful flying it can be done, but just barely if you're a good pilot. I end up with beads of sweat on my forehead trying to keep up in the KI-43 ( when climbing ) but I can juuuuusssssstttttt keep up with huge amounts of concentration.

joeap
06-01-2006, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by tcar_101:


For example, I started the peal harbor single mission for the japanese, took out a couple of fighters, got to the ships and then couldn't drop a single bomb! And more concerningly, I can't find anywhere the controls to do so, even on the net! I assume its assigned to one of my joystick buttons but seriously, how am I supposed to know which one?



The others missed that...but what were you flying? You "took out a couple of fighters" if you were in a Zero, no bombs (in this game mission ro historically) you can carry two small bombs in some Zero models though IIRC. If you were in a Val...good job taking out the fighters. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Probably a problem with the key assignments as others have said.

GAU-8
06-02-2006, 12:52 AM
mort,

im not saying you are wrong by ANY means.

no offence taken http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

my thing is since the years ive first been here, i have never seen the answer like yours..prior. i dont read every single post, nor do i check all the different channels here. so from personal experience, seeing the same posts about this, and the same answers (several hundred times probably).. you tend to believe what you have encountered, even if not correct. im not sayin the answer is NOT out there. i have just missed it. nor have i actively tried to find a solution, to a problem that i have no concern about. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

so, im a little late by some years...but its nice to know http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

WTE_Galway
06-02-2006, 01:15 AM
Not sure if its been mentioned above but a lot of people start out setting up missions in teh Quick Mission Builder .. it starts in the air and lets you train against easy targets (like a novice c47!!)

Flying_Nutzo
06-02-2006, 06:32 AM
The QMB's a good way to get started, but don't forget about the Full Mission Builder (FMB). It'll open a world of creativity, even for simple missions.

And the basics are easy. Give it a whirl. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

mortoma1958
06-02-2006, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by GAU-8:
mort,

im not saying you are wrong by ANY means.

no offence taken http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

my thing is since the years ive first been here, i have never seen the answer like yours..prior. i dont read every single post, nor do i check all the different channels here. so from personal experience, seeing the same posts about this, and the same answers (several hundred times probably).. you tend to believe what you have encountered, even if not correct. im not sayin the answer is NOT out there. i have just missed it. nor have i actively tried to find a solution, to a problem that i have no concern about. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

so, im a little late by some years...but its nice to know http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif Well that's cool, just try not to pass on myths just because you have trouble keeping up and never learned the little secrets to it. You can keep up, any of us can and it does not take extreme flying skills to do it, just some patience with learning to fly a little more effectively and efficiently.

bird_brain
06-02-2006, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by tcar_101:
Whats with all the barking of heading orders mid dogfight? What should I be doing? If I don't nail this sucker he'll nail me and my group leader is screaming "heading 020 you idiot" at me. WTF?!
Just ignore them... He's really the idiot. Wait until you peel off after an enemy plane and he starts telling you "What the he11 is wrong with you! Get back in formation..." Laughable really, but you may not want to turn the radio chatter off entirely because you can use it to tell when your teammates (if you can call them that) are in trouble or running away.



Also, (2) what is going on with these campaigns? I started one last night and in two missions I haven't seen a single enemy. Am I missing something? Where does the fun start? The campaigns have a few lines of text telling you mostly irrelevant tit tat about some advancing front and then bang you're in the mission. Is this supposed to be a replication of what it was really like - did pilots not know what was happening? I seriously have no desire to enter another campaign - they are so well, weak and diluted and random and completely non-addictive. hmmm...
Now you see why some of us take so much time to make our own campaigns. I have done a few, and there is a link to "User Made Campaigns" in the mission builders' forum that you might find interesting. They are much more historical & immersive than the stock DGen campaigns that get repetetive after the 1st 3 missions. There are a couple of 3rd party utilities that are better, but you may want to save that for later. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


(4) Where is the hook? I love the flight model, its great, flighting the stick to stay in a tight, turning dogfight is the only high point so far (loving the trackIR support). But what else? I don't get it!!

The "Hook" is different for everyone. Some of us like flying offline campaigns, some like DGen, some like online dogfights & some like coop missions with their buddies. The thing about WWII prop fighters is that you have trim, throttle, rudder and the stick. That's it. No arming screens, missile parameters, weapon selections, radar settings, etc, etc, etc.... You just fly and fight and pull the trigger. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Once you get the basics down in about a week or two, it's all about tactics & maneuvers and learning the strengths & weaknesses of different planes. You can fly the same plane every day for a month, or change every 1/2 hour. There are over 100 different plane variations to pick. Fighters, dive bombers, heavy bombers, float planes, whatever you want.

The most profound statement I have heard about dogfighting is this... "You have to outfly your opponent first, then you can start shooting." I don't remember who said it, but learning to do that is the "hook" for me.


Please infect me with some of your enthusiasm, please....

Are you infected yet? If not, when you get the hang of it you will be. I have been flying this sim since it was an IL2 Demo about 5 years ago, and I still find new stuff all the time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Snootles
06-02-2006, 05:23 PM
Y'see, I deal with the "catching up with the flight leader" and "getting yelled at" problems by always making sure I'm the flight leader. That way, all the AI have to follow me, and I'm the one giving all the orders.


Yeah, and being skilled in the game is all a matter of feel. You have to goof around in free flight and quick battles until you really become familiar with how a propeller plane, its guns, bombs, and rockets behave.

mortoma1958
06-02-2006, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Snootles:
Y'see, I deal with the "catching up with the flight leader" and "getting yelled at" problems by always making sure I'm the flight leader. That way, all the AI have to follow me, and I'm the one giving all the orders.


Yeah, and being skilled in the game is all a matter of feel. You have to goof around in free flight and quick battles until you really become familiar with how a propeller plane, its guns, bombs, and rockets behave. Nothing wrong with being the FL, except the AI rarely do what you tell them to do anywho!! I never fly as the leader and wouldn't have it any other way. Two big reasons:

1. You get extremely skilled by flying with the AI in formation, you build a lot of discipline this way.

2. Since you have to fly very well ( not that hard though ) to stay up with the AI, it makes you a better pilot that way too. If you are flight leader, you don't have to fly worth a **** and this will not build skill.

And like I pointed out, in this game the AI really don't pay much attention to your orders
if you're fight leader. Not in the ways I would like them to anyway.

VW-IceFire
06-02-2006, 09:58 PM
Might want to spend some time on the single missions and the QMB (Quick Mission Builder) working up various skills and techniques before you venture into the campaigns and online.

I spent some good time there...still do.

NHawk52
06-02-2006, 10:21 PM
For this noob, I think the hook is in the flight model as well as the history. Over a decade ago when I first found the hook of flight sims, I think I got spoiled on speed, electronics, and computerizations of the "modern day" jets. When I then tried some early props, I got impatient with travel times and inability to "go vertical". Now that I've been away from it for some time (and, with age, have probably accrued more patience and appreciation for "the good ol' days" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ), I find this sim to be much more inviting, interesting, and comfortable than the old Strike Eagles and Vipers I used to relish.

nte70
06-03-2006, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by GAU-8:
WELCOME ABOARD tcar_101!

im not as good as the other guys to quickly give out GOOD answers, but i ll give you the basic idea.

.there is a known problem with taking off and the A.I. planes ALWAYS going too fast to cath up. been this way since day one. you wont catch up..

. barking orders.. you can get rid of voices entiresly thru the config ini , in the IL-2 folder. (i cant remember exactly what line, but someone can tell you how to do it, and the same with subtitles.) doing so will turn off (but not REMOVE) all the ingame voice, and subtitles.

. IL-2 has 3 or 4 buttons for dropping/shooting weapons. might have missed the latter assignment key.

.campaigns- it depends on what difficulty settings you set FOR that campaign. it IS VERY difficult to find enemies, when not used to the sim, and with several forms of ICONS "off"

. the "hook" is the same hook as playing golf! "love this game love this game love this game I HATE THIS GAME!!!!!..love this game love this game" just like golf...simple for the BASICS, moderate to learn, IMPOSSIBLE to master.

i know how you feel, i tried for months adjusting to lomac after learning so much about IL-2 (and felt precisely the way you did, but towards lomac at first). stick with it, ask questions when you have a difficult spot, and most of all DONT QUIT! after a few weeks of familiarity with it..youll see the love http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

this is a "learned art" so to speak. not flaming lomac at all, but this is during a time without radar/targeting computers, fly by wire, triple redundancy safety items. so there are many hand/eye/tactical coordination scenarios that change almost every second, that YOU must recognise and act apon.

you give out a bloody good answer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

GAU-8
06-03-2006, 01:14 AM
mort...

im confused... is it FLYING more effectively? or is it changing code as you earlier stated?

is DGEN part of the game? or is it external program? ive heard about it, but never used it.

tcar_101
06-05-2006, 06:50 AM
Firstly many thanks to all those who have made a contribution to this thread - you have met the challenge of inspiring an ignorant modern jet simmer! Consider me infected!

I spent a blissful evening in a bf-109 (g I think) in the QMB and I am finally hooked. I am also enjoying not having to muck around with radars, jamming, mid-air refuling etc... (you were right about that Nhawk..) After a couple of decent dogfights in a user campaign (cheers bird_brain!) and some bombing practise I when online and absolutely loved it. Wow.

Btw, if you go online you can recognise me because I'm sat in a wingless ball of flames plummeting groundwards, just about all of the time. Getting better though, took out some other noob (after a 'whites of his eyes' flyby) - which was all it took, now I dream in PF and there's no turning back..

Cheers again to the contributions of this remarkably mature and helpful community,

See you up there, probably sat on my 6!

Tom

bogusheadbox
06-05-2006, 07:04 AM
Oleg has captured another soul
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Flying_Nutcase
06-05-2006, 09:00 AM
Hooked within four days. I guess that's about normal. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Just remember about the FMB, when you're ready.

And welcome to a (generally) mature and (more or less) sane community. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

bird_brain
06-07-2006, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by tcar_101:
...After a couple of decent dogfights in a user campaign (cheers bird_brain!) ...
Cheers... which one did you fly 1st? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

SeaFireLIV
06-08-2006, 04:11 AM
Bah, why do they always go for the Axis planes first? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

bird_brain
06-08-2006, 07:14 PM
Ignorance is bliss... Corsairs rule! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

mortoma1958
06-08-2006, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by GAU-8:
mort...

im confused... is it FLYING more effectively? or is it changing code as you earlier stated?

is DGEN part of the game? or is it external program? ive heard about it, but never used it. Well it's mostly flying more effectively that is the ay to keep up with AI.
Only in a few cases does the mission generator assign cruise speeds too high for an aircraft, making it hard for humans to keep up with AI.
The Betty bomber is another good example I didn't think of before, but I can just barely keep up in it without changing the flight speed.

Dgen is the mission generator that comes with this sim. It's not 3rd party like DCG. If you go in and start a default career as a pilot flying any of the planes, it's Dgen that generates the missions. While DCG is an add on that has to be used externally while the sim is running.

GAU-8
06-10-2006, 01:19 AM
ah ..thnx.

man..after being here 4/5 years now.. id have known more about the sim.. :P ah well.