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View Full Version : Excess "Pauses" in online Dogfight rooms since 4.04m?



PF_Coastie
02-25-2006, 07:51 AM
Firstly, TY Oleg for getting the Mossie fixed so quickly along with the other little bugs.

I was just wondering if anyone has experienced excess Pauses or freezes in online games since installing 4.04m.

I have been in several rooms since installing 4.04 that are normally pretty smooth for me. Don't get me wrong, All DF rooms have the occassional respawn pause and such, but it seems since the patch they are very excessive.

Anyone else?

Has any adjustments been made to the net code?

Willey
02-25-2006, 09:30 AM
I've got 1-5sec stutters when others respawn from day 1 on, and it never ever was worse or better after a patch. Just the increasing numbers of players since the release of the dedicated software made it worse, because respawns happen more often.

PF_Coastie
02-25-2006, 09:40 AM
Thanks for the reply Willey. But, I am not really referring to the respawn pauses. These seem to be more related to LOD's. When you approach an AC and the dot changes, then when you get even closer when the detail changes. Happens when just getting into firing distance.

I have seen people in DF servers complaining more about this and just wanted to get some thoughts down in black and white.

DaimonSyrius
02-25-2006, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
I was just wondering if anyone has experienced excess Pauses or freezes in online games since installing 4.04m.

I realise you're asking about online, but see this thread about 4.04 and stutters in the Tech Help forum:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/2491000614

Cheers,
S.

PF_Coastie
02-25-2006, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by DaimonSyrius:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
I was just wondering if anyone has experienced excess Pauses or freezes in online games since installing 4.04m.

I realise you're asking about online, but see this thread about 4.04 and stutters in the Tech Help forum:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/2491000614

Cheers,
S. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have zero problems offline. Smooth as silk.

Manos1
02-25-2006, 01:21 PM
I have not flown online very much yet (too busy... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif) with 4.04m but, the little I tried: YES I experience more stutters than before...

pity, pity, pity...

PF_Coastie
02-25-2006, 02:05 PM
I just got out of an online coop and it was horrible. Very bad pauses. This is strange!

ECV56_Rolf
02-25-2006, 02:33 PM
We detected this since 4.03m.
4.02m was far better on this issue.

vocatx
02-25-2006, 04:58 PM
It would be interesting to find out if there really is anything in 4.04 that could cause this. Three friends and I fly co-ops nightly. The maps are put together in such a way that there are no AI spawns after the map starts running. All four of us have noticed more screen freezes since the patch. Two of us are running 2 gigs in dual channel, but one only has 512 of RAM. His screen freezes can last up to five seconds.

I don't know if it's something to do with the patch, or if it's been there for a while. You know how it is: after a patch we are all paying more attention to the details. Could be some of us are just noticing something that isn't so new.

dieg777
02-26-2006, 01:44 AM
I noticed this in the last patch - sometimes when I fired my guns of just at around the LOD change I got horrible freezes.

I havnt flown much online with the new patch but I was in a co-op and a dogfight server last night and it seemed better- the main test will be an extended session on warclouds- Ill report back with any findings

Willey
02-26-2006, 04:34 AM
Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
Thanks for the reply Willey. But, I am not really referring to the respawn pauses. These seem to be more related to LOD's. When you approach an AC and the dot changes, then when you get even closer when the detail changes. Happens when just getting into firing distance.

I have seen people in DF servers complaining more about this and just wanted to get some thoughts down in black and white.

Ah yes, I have these even in Coops, but not offline. Also a problem that I never could get rid of - but right, it seems to me, it's even worse with the 4.x patches than before. I could bet $100000 on having a freeze when just in firing position, I would never ever lose a penny. I really do hate that. Maybe that's the reason why I prefer ground attack http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Kwiatos
02-26-2006, 05:24 AM
I suppose new dlls cause these. Ati2pack (fix black sky and texture corruption) dlls for Ati cards decrased many stutters which apeared with 4.03 standart dlls.

Wilburnator
02-26-2006, 05:35 AM
4.04 has been very smooth for me. I played some co-ops in the HL Friday night with no problems there, or in dogfight servers. I was on Teamspeak with guys in my squad and nobody made any mention of any freeze or stutter problems.

I use an ATI card without the new dlls. I tried them but they seemed to hurt my frame rate substantially, so I reverted back to the originals. I never had the "black water" bug either.

Hope you get it sorted out.

Hawgdog
02-26-2006, 06:37 AM
I never had micro stutters, or pauses till the last patch, now I do.
wonder if its the new dlls. pity if so, they do water nicely.
I've seen this topic on two or three other forums, so you aint imagining it coastie

VFS-22_SPaRX
02-26-2006, 07:17 AM
Coatie,

Try using the 4.02 dlls. See if this helps. I know there are some fixes in the new dlls that you wish to keep, but it will help in narrowing down the problems.

Also, might try changing this line in your conf.ini with the new dlls

TexLarge=1

to

TexLarge=0

This should lower the detail on the planes.

SPaRX

F19_Ob
02-26-2006, 07:19 AM
I like the 404 above all patches for the smooth FM.....Unfortunately I now get pauses I didn't get in 403.
I get pauses when for example hurricanes shoot for the first time and also when a plane chrash in the water.
Online I also get more 1 second or halfsecond pauses than in 403.
In403 also black death ran smoother but now I have stutters when explosions come.
I doesn't help to set settings down and I have good framerates, but the pauses still are there.

I will create a new folder and repatch to 403 and compare a bit more.
I have a good memmory for details but I will anyway go back and make sure I remember correctly.

OldMan____
02-26-2006, 07:20 AM
Some of you guys might strt complaining to ATi about their HORRIBLE openGL drivers (they focus ALL their GL optimizations to Doom3 engine). They don´t do it otherwise because people don´t complain.

VFS-22_SPaRX
02-26-2006, 07:35 AM
Oldman,

This is not just happening to ATI users. Its happening to Nvidia users as well. Maybe you shouldn't make such bold statements before you know all the facts?

PF_Coastie
02-26-2006, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
Coatie,

Try using the 4.02 dlls. See if this helps. I know there are some fixes in the new dlls that you wish to keep, but it will help in narrowing down the problems.

Also, might try changing this line in your conf.ini with the new dlls

TexLarge=1

to

TexLarge=0

This should lower the detail on the planes.

SPaRX

Thx Sparx,

I will give that setting a try. I have not messed with that one in a while. My rig has been running so well lately, I have not tinkered with settings much.

I did play around with some different Dll's and have smoothed the pauses out to more "normal" frequency.

By the way, I have not noticed the "TIR issue" since 4.03! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Well done on that man!

VFS-22_SPaRX
02-26-2006, 08:31 AM
I have not tried the setting change myself yet. But when i seen you observation about LOD changes, I thought this might help.

Which DLLs yielded less pauses?


As to the TIR. Man, isn't it nice to play without that damned hit again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif hehehe.

PF_Coastie
02-26-2006, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
I have not tried the setting change myself yet. But when i seen you observation about LOD changes, I thought this might help.

Which DLLs yielded less pauses?


As to the TIR. Man, isn't it nice to play without that damned hit again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif hehehe.

LOL, I dont know which .dll's I am using. I have them all mixed up right now. They are dated 2/17 and are 1.55mb.

As far as the TexLarge setting. It really should have no bearing on my system. I have 2Gb of ram, a 256 mb x800xl card and a 5mb/2mb cable connection. So, it should not matter if my textures are 512 or 1024, I have the gear to handle that. What I think is that others in game can NOT handle it and it reflects on evryone else.

***edited my ram amount, had a "slight" typo! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

VFS-22_SPaRX
02-26-2006, 10:22 AM
As far as the TexLarge setting. It really should have no bearing on my system. I have 2mb of ram, a 256 mb x800xl card and a 5mb/2mb cable connection. So, it should not matter if my textures are 512 or 1024, I have the gear to handle that. What I think is that others in game can NOT handle it and it reflects on evryone else


Yeah Coastie, I am thinking that this is most of the problem as well. Its too hard to tell if your system is causing the stutter, or it is infact someone else causing it for you. If their system cannot handle it and they delay sending data to the server, then you are going to see it as well because your do not get the needed info. Guess we just gotta keep watching and see how it plays out. We seen the same thing when PF was released. Oleg warned us that we were going to need more ram, but not many heeded his warning.

OldMan____
02-26-2006, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
Oldman,

This is not just happening to ATI users. Its happening to Nvidia users as well. Maybe you shouldn't make such bold statements before you know all the facts?

I know that I see complains much more frequently on ATI cards and I develop graphic engines in OpenGL myself. And I KNOW ATI drivers are *$¨!¨$&#@! for any OpenGL that does not work like ID family of engines. And whenever I get in touch with ATI they write it "we do not care for other Opengl applications, at least until we receive complains about that"

PF_Coastie
02-26-2006, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by OldMan____:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
Oldman,

This is not just happening to ATI users. Its happening to Nvidia users as well. Maybe you shouldn't make such bold statements before you know all the facts?

I know that I see complains much more frequently on ATI cards and I develop graphic engines in OpenGL myself. And I KNOW ATI drivers are *$¨!¨$&#@! for any OpenGL that does not work like ID family of engines. And whenever I get in touch with ATI they write it "we do not care for other Opengl applications, at least until we receive complains about that" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its not that ATI does not care. Its just that Nvidia has the "other" OpenGL engines in thier pocket and they will not cooperate with ATI engineers. Very simple business really! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

|CoB|_Spectre
02-26-2006, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
Its not that ATI does not care. Its just that Nvidia has the "other" OpenGL engines in thier pocket and they will not cooperate with ATI engineers. Very simple business really! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I don't begin to understand the alchemy of programming drivers, but is the "open" in "OpenGL" proprietary and only known to Nvidia? Seems a company as techno-savvy as ATI could reverse engineer or otherwise get a handle on whatever it is that Nvidia seems to know about OpenGL if they put their corporate minds to it. It may be they aren't motivated to optimize OpenGL drivers because they view it as a niche or even obsolescent. After all, they've written off everyone interested in their newest cards that haven't upgraded to a mobo with PCI Express whereas Nvidia still makes models for AGP. These things don't go unnoticed by the buying public.

OldMan____
02-26-2006, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
Oldman,

This is not just happening to ATI users. Its happening to Nvidia users as well. Maybe you shouldn't make such bold statements before you know all the facts?

I know that I see complains much more frequently on ATI cards and I develop graphic engines in OpenGL myself. And I KNOW ATI drivers are *$¨!¨$&#@! for any OpenGL that does not work like ID family of engines. And whenever I get in touch with ATI they write it "we do not care for other Opengl applications, at least until we receive complains about that" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its not that ATI does not care. Its just that Nvidia has the "other" OpenGL engines in thier pocket and they will not cooperate with ATI engineers. Very simple business really! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ATi is part of OpenGL rulling body as well as NVIDIA. Both have same access to things.. in fact THEY decide what openGL is and will be (along with IBM, Sony, 3Dlabs SGI...).

Direct3D is M$ property.. ATI is M$ allied currently.. this don´t stop NVIDIA from making decent D3D drivers.

These does not buy.

ATI always openly claimed to not be interested in OpenGL. It was forced to change a little bit when Doom3 engien appeared, but they are extremely focused on it only.

ATI has great hardware engineers, but they have horrible politics.

Whenever you have a graphic problem on PF, complain to ATI as well!!! Almost all developers agree that when an OpenGl problem arises on ATI card its 9/10 chance its THEIR problem. (usually a feature they don´t give a look for a long time). Complain and they will look at it.

BTW, opengl is NOT outdated, it has EVERYTHING Direct3D have, and een when new D3D arrive.. it will take a few weeks only to have all neew features aded to GL ( because any company in rullinb body may add these features to GL (as probably Nvidia will do).

gkll
02-26-2006, 10:35 PM
Tons of pauses, long pauses, short pauses... almost unplayable. Sometimes for 10 or more seconds. Seemed to start 403? I play so little it is hard to remember, but online the other night (404), was terrible, seems to be worst right as you get close to other aircraft. I'll try some video driver stuff I guess. 10 seconds seems to be some other problem you would think, however it is a recent issue, with no hardware changes.

AVG_WarHawk
02-26-2006, 10:53 PM
Wasn't experiencing pauses until 4.04m. Now pauses from approx. .5 sec to 4 seconds in both offline and online http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Luv the FMs but give me back my old dll.

Signed, frustrated in N. California

Targ
02-26-2006, 11:35 PM
I noticed it first in the HQFoam.Dll's and promplty changed back to the 4.03, nerxt day the patch 4.04 came out!
I should have tested those DLL sonner and reported what I found.

|CoB|_Spectre
02-27-2006, 02:59 AM
I don't know if this has any bearing on what you guys are experiencing, but I had a pause-fest yesterday playing offline like nothing I've ever seen before. I had hosted a squad flight Saturday night with no pause issues, but Sunday I got an update reminder from Zone Labs that there was a new version of Zone Alarm available so I downloaded and installed it. I didn't see anything weird about it until I loaded a QMB, then the pauses began and they came with increasing frequency (keep in mind this was offline). I uninstalled v61.737 and went back to v55.094 and everything smoothed out.

pourshot
02-27-2006, 03:23 AM
I am also seeing these constant micro stutters now as well as packet loss (I think).

After joining war clouds tonight I grabbed a Tempest and was in combat strait after take off clearing a wingman€s six I got a nice long burst onto a turning 109 so many in fact we all broke off but he did not even smoke I then called the others to kill him. Next I shot up a TA and the same thing. All the time the guys on coms are saying man look at those hits but when I looked at the server <gunstat it showed only 9 hits after those two attacks?

I am not complaining so much because it could very well be on my end and I know I have been hit and was surprised that I was still in one piece on more than the odd occasion, but it would be nice if other people could test this also.

I don€t get that many kills but when I do make a nice shot I would like the bugger to go down. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

Kwiatos
02-27-2006, 08:20 AM
For Ati users try atifix2 dlls - which was relased some time after 4.03 - should be the best.

Matz0r
02-27-2006, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
I have zero problems offline. Smooth as silk.

Do you use hyperlobby? I've found that hyperlobby causes most of my stutters when playing online.

|CoB|_Spectre
02-27-2006, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by F16_Matz_:
Do you use hyperlobby? I've found that hyperlobby causes most of my stutters when playing online.

I'm not sure how Hyperlobby would do that. Basically, all Hyperlobby does is serve as a meeting place and a jumping-off point for you to host or join as a client, then return to the meeting place afterward. The host is the defacto server. Hyperlobby does not act as a server in any way.

VR_Cutter
02-28-2006, 07:34 AM
Yeah I am getting tonnes of pauses now. As well My squad is finding the game randomly locks up if we are flying a mission with lots of objects.

If anyone finds a solution to this please share!

Birdman86
02-28-2006, 09:58 AM
Have you tried to defrag your hard disk?

I did it and loading times and stutters are now a lot shorter.

FastDriver74
03-01-2006, 12:57 AM
First, I would not recommend defragging an NTFS partition with the XP supplied defrag. It can and will destroy your NTFS partition. I lost 100 gigs on my last defrag. The company that made defrag for Windows has their own newer version that has much better performance. Perhaps that was intentional? Diskkeeper is what I think it is called.

I've noticed more stutters, 1 to 3 second stutters 4 times in a row and then nothing for some time, and then the same pattern. Has nothing to do with LOD - they are just intermittent consistent stutters since 4.04.

I also feel there is at least 1 new memory leak in the new patch. This is because the first time in a room I can fly with next to zero stutters - except for the known spawn, and sometimes LOD stutters. But the second time in the room, I get the 1 or 2 second stutters, each being 4 in a row. 4 1 or 2 second stutters every 5 to 10 min or so. A reboot completely solves this problem which leads me to believe there is a memory leak somewhere.
I have not attached the MSVC 6 or MSVC .NET debugger to the process as of yet to determine if this is true or not. Perhaps it could do a mem dump for me or trace allocation during execution.

Anyone else notice that after playing once, the game stutters more? Online or off.

whiteladder
03-01-2006, 03:40 AM
I noticed an increase in pausing online since 403, offline smooth. Gets to a point were it is almost unplayable.


As a side question in my video option should I use OpenGL or DirectX? I have a nvidia 6200.

OldMan____
03-02-2006, 04:30 AM
Open up terminal and type GC (all uppercase). I do it on start of each round and it helps a bit. Sometimes is needed to run it a few times, since the garbage colelctor has a limited time frame to make the collection and this might not be enough.

F16_Petter
03-02-2006, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by F16_Matz_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
I have zero problems offline. Smooth as silk.

Do you use hyperlobby? I've found that hyperlobby causes most of my stutters when playing online. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hyperlobby only interferes with IL2 when you run it in active but in background, lets say you connect to game directly via IP or ASE and STILL have HL idling in background (you forget to close it). HL is a visualbasic module and each time someone send a chat message it will take all cpu and gfx power and cause a small stutter.

But running VIA hyperlobby shouldnt be a problem, ive tested this very very carefully..
However, it shall not be forgotten that HL DOES use resources such as CPU power and Memory, it also could be cause of memory leaks if improperly programmed.

But the problem isnt really about Hyperlobby... its about getting into a game in any way and you still get the pauses... the root of this particular problem lies within the game code.

Remember the old IL2 days?
You could place static planes to "preload" the 3models into the sim.engine... that way the join freezes were minimized if not totally gone.

This is not only an online issue... if you are a regular offline flyer and if you create missions, where you set aircraft or ships or tanks to be "spawned" or activated lets say 10-15 minutes into a mission, you will get a 1-2 second freeze when the "new" object is insterted/loaded into the sim.engine....

Anyway..If that wasnt enough... anyone getting small micro-micro-stutters when flying really really close in formation with someone? (Blue Angels Style, that is)

It was possible in FB 1.0 up to a point of... hm.. dont rember.. but nowadays its not possible.. getting small small warps.. not big.. but noticable.

And this occurs even in a LAN enviroment.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FastDriver74
03-03-2006, 11:12 PM
Well I'm not sure about Hyperlobby but I ran the MSVC 6 debugger (SP6) and the Microsoft Visual C++ Express Edition .NET debuggers on the running process il2fb.exe.

The debugger exited when il2fb had over 100 first-chance exceptions at address 0x0C000005, 8 Microsoft Visual C++ exceptions that occurred inside of Kernel32.dll, and several other first-chance exceptions with identical addresses.

I have not checked the number of memory handles or available memory prior to running il2fb, and then after it has exited so I cannot verify definite memory leaks. If DirectX is used for sound, input, or anything else I could run the debug DLLs for DX and get all kinds of information back.....but I have yet to do this.

I'm still wondering where these exceptions came from since the debugger was attached to the process. Theoretically the debugger itself would not cause the exception by trying to read memory that does not belong to it, but this may be what happened.

I am nearly convinced there are some memory leaks, and/or COM resource leaks (if it is using COM/ActiveX) in 4.04m. Once the game is played, exited (like back to hyper after a game) and then re-played....stutters are worse and performance is not up to par. This points to an incorrect cleanup of memory and/or resources on exiting the il2fb application.

I also notice during the downtime of Hyperlobby that while playing over IP on =AFJ= Dedicated, I experience very little stuttering, pauses, etc. Now with Hyper back up, I'm experiencing more. This could be a problem in Hyper AND in il2fb and together they wreak havoc.

A good test would be to fly - exit game, fly-exit game and do this many many times and note the performance each time and check the memory handles, active processes, available memory, allocated memory, CPU load, etc, etc...each time you do this. If the program performance and/or Windows performance degrades - somewhere memory or a resource is being allocated and not being returned to the system.

MSVC 6 also has utilities to track every window, process, thread, and object currently in use by the OS. This should show something as well after a few tests.

I'm sure Maddox and team are watching the code as they expand and change it to make sure memory leaks are either fixed completely (doubtful) or occur so infrequently or in such situations as to not even warrant addressing them.

MobyGrape
03-06-2006, 10:20 PM
I have been hosting coops..Never had a freeze in pre 4.04..Now its common..I am using the new dll.s