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Divine-Wind
06-03-2007, 09:05 PM
Do you Focke Wulf jocks see over the danged instrument panel? I swear, it's like trying to fly VFR with Flight Simulator's IFR panel. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Deflection shots must be a bloody nightmare, or else you must all have top-secret X-Ray goggles.

I just had to ask. Been flying the Butcher Bird a bit since I started the Burning Skies campaign. I think I'll stick to Thunderbolts and Tempests after I'm done... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

FritzGryphon
06-03-2007, 09:08 PM
Make a note of the target's heading, then pull lead and shoot. Even without being able to physically see the target, you should be able to visualize where it is. Between bursts of fire, drop the nose to see if the target was hit, and adjust accordingly.

Or, just spray randomly along the target's predicted path. You're bound to hit something.

VW-IceFire
06-03-2007, 09:14 PM
What Fritz said....most of the kills I make in a FW190 are typically sight unseen. I see the target...make a mental note...fire my burst of gunfire and then check to see if I did it properly. Sometimes if its at an odd angle I'll roll inverted or nearly inverted just to make the shot...unusual but sometimes I'll do it.

Divine-Wind
06-03-2007, 09:18 PM
That must take practice. Mostly I end up squirting (lol) round all 'round the target, and get like 15 hits.

I will say one thing for the 'Bird - Doesn't take more than a couple hits to exploderize or disintegrate a plane. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Love the rollrate too. I almost got seasick when I flipped over to dive on that one poor sucker.

DKoor
06-03-2007, 09:20 PM
I don't have some secret technique just...
in deflection, I don't level my wings to enemy ac wings that mean straight 6 and level. That way I can actually see/track the target.

Otherwise in most cases I wouldn't be able to shoot or I would simply lose my target because smart pilots, when engaged this way will evade without pattern.

That's the pood part about it.

The bad part about it is you get really a snap burst but in Wurger's case, that should be enough. At least one or two 20mms should end up on target. After that you just climb up in direction opposite of your enemy evading turn, so he actually must roll to the other side (which is a very crappy move in Spitfire) to get a gun solution on you... at that point you are at least 450m away from him and still increasing distance lightning fast.

So he is making basically an impossible shot.

So... go back on him from above and repeat the procedure. After two passes you should cripple/destroy him.

You can't shoot down something you can't see/feel in some way. It's that simple.
No matter what other guys say, to pull a blind deflection your opponent must make a perfect pattern-evading turn. I can, I'm pretty sure of that, shot down ea ~8/10 cases in hard blind deflection if he makes a perfect evasion. That ~2 cases are accounted for guns RoF in combinations with distance and deflection speed and my crapy shooting. Some may pull better than that perhaps even 10/10! Nose of the FW should move very little in the direction of evading turn (few ac distances ahead of it shooting lasts until target flies thru it) to make that target barrage area very dense and filled with flying lead so the target ac must get some.

Go online and check just how much times will that happen.

But... if they make you what they make in most cases it should look like this for example; you track him then he goes for hard right turn evasion, you quickly compensate by putting your nose few aircraft lengths in front of his last know position and start to shoot at that point - barrage shoot - and he is supposed to run thru your bullets.... but where he is..?

After he hard evaded right, he continued right then down then chopped throttle and went straight up above you, while you are in hard turn shooting at that point. If you continue to turn and search for him you'll certainly find him.... at your six and closing.

But if you are willing to take my advice... engage mostly targets that didn't saw you.
Maneuver at his high six, then dive... dive below his level while keeping extra fast speed.
Few moments before you enter gun range level at his dead six.
Stabilize your Focke Wulf (you trimmed the elevator few notches down, didn't you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif), gunsite directly at target.
And.. when he fills your gunsight just pull the trigger with gunsight dead on target.
Like I said at 250m you should literally tear him apart.

Those are cleanest and best kills, but thing is they aren't as easy as they look like at first sight. To do it, for a start, you must be able to spot him before he spots you.
And that is, in WW2 fighter Vs fighter combat - EVERYTHING.

LStarosta
06-03-2007, 09:38 PM
Kuna is wrong.

Raaaid has the real answer.

M_Gunz
06-03-2007, 10:33 PM
I have rolled FW's over to be able to use the top of the sight ring for deflection.
It's not something you can do when pulling much any G load but some times it can be done.

Korolov1986
06-03-2007, 11:37 PM
Minimize the shots you need in deflection. If you generally know where your rounds are going to be going, then you can effectively guess where your shots are going and where your target will be. You can also pull up, fire a burst, and see if it hits.

K_Freddie
06-04-2007, 12:02 AM
Wot you can also do to keep the a/c in sight is to level out a the last moment and kick 100% rudder and take a potshot... something like a horizontal deflection shot in the plane(flat surface) of the target http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Henkie327
06-04-2007, 01:38 AM
No cockpit.

You can turn the cockpit off in the difficulty setting.

Feathered_IV
06-04-2007, 02:56 AM
Indeed. Heinz Bar said he did that all the time.

tigertalon
06-04-2007, 03:42 AM
Fly inverted, pull negative G. Takes a bit of practice, but after a while you'll be hitting your targets without much trouble.

WTE_Ibis
06-04-2007, 04:24 AM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Indeed. Heinz Bar said he did that all the time.
--------------------------------------

Funny that, so did Hanz Solo.


.

MEGILE
06-04-2007, 04:41 AM
Booster Seat

BBB_Hyperion
06-04-2007, 04:50 AM
Switch of Target Computer and use the Force else search for another plane http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Philipscdrw
06-04-2007, 07:00 AM
Does this mean the Fw190 was a pioneer of BVR fighting? I mean, if you're firing at someone you can't actually see, that's Beyond Visual Range, right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

DKoor
06-04-2007, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
Fly inverted, pull negative G. Takes a bit of practice, but after a while you'll be hitting your targets without much trouble. He he yes lol

Those are insane shots, when I line up on target he goes in opposite direction and I'm pulling negative G lead shot on him http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif
But at least I can see him all the way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

DKoor
06-04-2007, 10:08 AM
RoFL

No... I know why "ignored" that comment... because 190 on no pit is something like a wonderplane.
Enemy ac are just falling from the sky lol too easy if you ask me.

Only very few know how to evade 190 attack and even them cannot do that successfully every time lol

If you fly a Dora even with pit on there is little that can touch you if you stay fast and awared at all times. Keep altitude from 2-3k and be very fast.

Flying a 190 on no pit server sure is fun... but only for those who fly it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Divine-Wind
06-04-2007, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Skunk241981:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Henkie327:
No cockpit.

You can turn the cockpit off in the difficulty setting.

Sure, but most people here are elitist *******s who will ignore this comment. Me included. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

AKA_TAGERT
06-04-2007, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by Skunk241981:
Sure, but most people here are elitist *******s who will ignore this comment. Me included. Elitist?

So.. let me see if I got this right..

Your an elitist for pointing out that cockpit on is more realistic than cockpit off?

Is that the jist of it?

Huh..

Who knew!

So would it also be considered elitist to point out things like.. oh I don't know.. things like it is wrong for a P51 to do 750mph in level flight?

Or does this elitist title only get applied when one of the wonder woman users get but hurt when one of the non-wonder woman users points out that cockpit on is more realistic than cockpit off?

DISCLAIMER
'more realistic' is not ment to imply nor should it be confused with 'real'

AKA_TAGERT
06-04-2007, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Skunk241981:
Maybe elitist was a bad choice of wording...perhaps "a|\|al retentive" would be more proper.
a|\|al retentive?

So.. let me see if I got this right..

You are a|\|al retentive for pointing out that cockpit on is more realistic than cockpit off?

Is that the jist of it?

Huh..

Who knew!

So would it also be considered a|\|al retentive to point out things like.. oh I don't know.. things like it is wrong for a P51 to do 750mph in level flight?

Or does this a|\|al retentive title only get applied when one of the wonder woman users gets but hurt when one of the non-wonder woman users points out that cockpit on is more realistic than cockpit off?

DISCLAIMER
'more realistic' is not ment to imply nor should it be confused with 'real'


Originally posted by Skunk241981:
Oh and its you're not your.
So

polak5
06-04-2007, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
Make a note of the target's heading, then pull lead and shoot. Even without being able to physically see the target, you should be able to visualize where it is. Between bursts of fire, drop the nose to see if the target was hit, and adjust accordingly.

Or, just spray randomly along the target's predicted path. You're bound to hit something.


what he said... i when trying deflection shots i usually just try to visualize and spray were he will be... works most the time... use the aboundant ammount of mg ammo for these ocasions.

VMF-214_HaVoK
06-04-2007, 09:29 PM
I actually find deflection shooting rather easy in the FW. Its all in the timing and I believe its the rof of the rounds more so then the platform. Usually I can average 15-20% air hits against fighters (not bombers people, thats easy) with this plane. One of my favorite all time rides. You just have to fly it awhile and get used to it like any other plane. Any plane with wing mounted cannons makes deflection shooting easy.

Now you want hard when it comes to deflection shots? Try flying the P-47D-10/22! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
06-04-2007, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skunk241981:
Maybe elitist was a bad choice of wording...perhaps "a|\|al retentive" would be more proper.
a|\|al retentive?

So.. let me see if I got this right..

You are a|\|al retentive for pointing out that cockpit on is more realistic than cockpit off?

Is that the jist of it?

Huh..

Who knew!

So would it also be considered a|\|al retentive to point out things like.. oh I don't know.. things like it is wrong for a P51 to do 750mph in level flight?

Or does this a|\|al retentive title only get applied when one of the wonder woman users gets but hurt when one of the non-wonder woman users points out that cockpit on is more realistic than cockpit off?

DISCLAIMER
'more realistic' is not ment to imply nor should it be confused with 'real'


Originally posted by Skunk241981:
Oh and its you're not your.
So </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You just cant shake these basterds. There was a whole thread about this stuff and the only ones complaining are the wonderwoman view fliers. LOL! Insanity. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif The original poster flies cockpit on so why would he want to fly arcade? Because its easier?????? Got ya! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
06-04-2007, 09:37 PM
Here is an idea. Lets divide the community and give arcade fliers there own forum. Ahh that would be sooooooo sweet indeed. One can dream.

ElAurens
06-04-2007, 09:49 PM
HaVoK, you are such an elitist.


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Airmail109
06-04-2007, 10:10 PM
WHo gives a **** Havok

ANd I freaking doubt your hit ratio with M2 .50 cals is 15-20 percent unless you dont take defelction shots and shoot when the enemies taking up your entire windscreen

The best deflection shots down even have to visualize where to shoot, its second nature.

AKA_TAGERT
06-04-2007, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
You just cant shake these basterds. There was a whole thread about this stuff and the only ones complaining are the wonderwoman view fliers. LOL! Insanity. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif The original poster flies cockpit on so why would he want to fly arcade? Because its easier?????? Got ya! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif Exactally!

I mean if they need or want to fly with cockpit off..

More power to them! What ever floats your boat! You go girl!

But don't call me an elitist or anal for prefering cockpit on..

And..

For pointing out that cockpit on is more realistic than cockpit off!

And..

For the but hurt cockpit off crowd..

read what I said SLOWLY!

I did NOT say cockpit on 'is realistic'.. I said 'more realistic'!

Big difference!

Anyone that thinks a 2D .20 dot pitch 20" monitor can do the real 3D 120? FOV world justice is nuts!

But..

It is MORE realistic with it on!

It affects every aspect of the game! Not just you view!

M_Gunz
06-04-2007, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
Fly inverted, pull negative G. Takes a bit of practice, but after a while you'll be hitting your targets without much trouble.

Not for me! I work to arrange the shot to not cost me E as much as possible and inverted G's?
If you can't follow him enough for a good shot then you're not back far enough.
Even so that just means it's time to use the vertical, anything to keep from stalling off speed
just to stay behind a what? Whatever it is, it probably turns better at lower speeds. Just let
yourself get that slow and see how well he turns!

People should fly the most handicapped planes they can get just to see what kinds of tactics
they have to come up with. I've always been more into early war models in PC sims because they
need more coaxing to build energy with and required better aim, less firepower and ammo limited.


I am sure that I have read in pilots memoires about firing just when the target goes beneath
the nose. But were they pulling lead in a circle then? I think probably, but I dunno.
But they did done then firing blind like that and told about it.

M_Gunz
06-05-2007, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
Fly inverted, pull negative G. Takes a bit of practice, but after a while you'll be hitting your targets without much trouble. He he yes lol

Those are insane shots, when I line up on target he goes in opposite direction and I'm pulling negative G lead shot on him http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif
But at least I can see him all the way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Take a tip from a German Ace and approach a point off to the side of the target instead of
getting straight behind. From there you are one hard turn, canopy up, into the target and
at close range you don't aim, you time it like a music note how fast to pull. If you are
faster and off to the side a bit, you can cross his path at will and he can only make the
shot briefer esp if you outroll him. Works better on bombers than following them, too.

You don't have to follow the tail of the target. His rear is armored way better than the
rest, esp the sides. To fly differently eliminates poor low speed turning as a handicap

M_Gunz
06-05-2007, 12:11 AM
How can cockpit off players complain about the FW view??

fordfan25
06-05-2007, 12:11 AM
please with blue guns.... you dont need to see your targets

Brain32
06-05-2007, 03:20 AM
Originally posted by fordfan25:
please with blue guns.... you dont need to see your targets
Ouch http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
It's better if you don't, will save you the dissapointment, but with Hispano you just have to see those big beautifull one-shell-hit mid air explosions http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Feathered_IV
06-05-2007, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
Here is an idea. Lets divide the community and give arcade fliers there own forum. Ahh that would be sooooooo sweet indeed. One can dream.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Henkie327
06-05-2007, 05:34 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
How can cockpit off players complain about the FW view??

Even no cockpit fliers can toggle the cockpit on (by accident) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2007, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
But don't call me an elitist or anal for prefering cockpit on..


You know it was meant as a joke. I thought people would take a laugh from some guy pointing out that some people think they're aces because they fly with cockpit on. If you read me again, I included myself, which when one has a sense of humor, can clearly see the joke in the statement.

Of course if it offended you, I guess that in some way you are as I described.

I removed my posts because you turned them into more serious words.

Oh and HaVok, thanks for calling me a basterd. I needed some sense talked into me.

Divine-Wind
06-05-2007, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
HaVoK, you are such an elitist.


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
No, a|\|al retentive!

Jeez, I start a thread about the IFR Focke Wulf cockpit for a bit of humor, and all you goofballs go and get into an argument about Wonderwoman View and elitism. GET A LIFE.

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2007, 07:47 AM
Sorry about that D-W.

DKoor
06-05-2007, 09:24 AM
He he nice changing in threads course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
As expected tho http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

ElAurens
06-05-2007, 10:42 AM
Sheesh.

HaVoK and I have fought many good fights agianst one another, I have a very high regard for his skills, and I know that he understands I am having a bit of fun with him.

I rather think that I'm not the one that needs to lighten up a bit around here.

Daiichidoku
06-05-2007, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
I rather think that I'm not the one that needs to lighten up a bit around here.

Francis is here? didnt see him

ElAurens
06-05-2007, 03:57 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif