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XyZspineZyX
10-22-2002, 08:53 PM
Hello,
I recently started flying some coop missions with the stuka.
When on the gunner position in the stuka, I can't seem to hit squat or take down any enemy planes even when they are directly behind me 200-500 meters.
I don't think there is any kind of deflection(correct me if I'm wrong) and I usually aim for the engine...but still nothing.
Any tips for the gunner would be great.

t

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/thomas3120/miscpics/Corsair.jpg


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/thomas3120/T's%20Arcade%20Cabinet/T's%20Arcade%20Cabinet.htm

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2002, 08:53 PM
Hello,
I recently started flying some coop missions with the stuka.
When on the gunner position in the stuka, I can't seem to hit squat or take down any enemy planes even when they are directly behind me 200-500 meters.
I don't think there is any kind of deflection(correct me if I'm wrong) and I usually aim for the engine...but still nothing.
Any tips for the gunner would be great.

t

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/thomas3120/miscpics/Corsair.jpg


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/thomas3120/T's%20Arcade%20Cabinet/T's%20Arcade%20Cabinet.htm

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2002, 08:59 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean. The early Stukas' defensive armament was not sufficient though. A solitary 7.92 mm machinegun, could just as well shoot peas! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

regards, GurraZ

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2002, 11:00 PM
Try to let them come in closer... espescially in Coop, other fella's will come in much too close to the Stuka's.

Oh yeah, don't mind hitting you own tail, the stuka can take alot of hits from its own machine gun before anything noteable happens /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

really, I tried it several times!!

3 And why beholdest thou the mote
that is in thy brother's eye, but
considerest not the beam that is
in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy
brother, Let me pull out the mote
out of thine eye; and, behold, a
beam [is] in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out
the beam out of thine own eye; and
then shalt thou see clearly to cast
out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2002, 12:49 AM
If I am in the unfortunate situation of having to use the tailgun, I just spray wildly at the enemy at all ranges in the hopes of damaging or scaring him.

And if I manage to do either one of those, I am happy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-23-2002, 04:45 AM
fennec if we ever get your defiant in the game...remind me not to have you as my gunner lol


though i can see it now zORK and Fennec awarded the victoria cross for scaring away the germans on many occasions....lol

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XyZspineZyX
10-23-2002, 04:55 AM
Lead them depending on the approach angle. If you can't do it well your more than likely a lousey shot as a pilot too.

michapma
10-23-2002, 09:25 AM
I believe in the training track (or was it the manual?) with the IL-2 it is recommended for the rear gunner to aim a bit behind the enemy plane approaching from the rear instead of leading it. I couldn't figure out why.

When I practice as a rear gunner I don't seem to hit anything, but then again you just might not notice if you hit. Try gunning with the arcade settings on to see whether you are making hits. Maybe I'll have to practice this (with unlimited ammo!).

Funny how the Stukas always manage to take out my engine if I sit very long on their six. Why can't I when I'm in the Stuka? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Mike

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2002, 10:27 AM
I manage to shoot down quite a few bandits when their range is less than 30metres



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He knows no manners...
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michapma
10-23-2002, 10:36 AM
Fresshness wrote:
- I manage to shoot down quite a few bandits when
- their range is less than 30metres

Do you mean 300 meters?

0.3 (icon reading) = 0.3 &times; 1km = 300m

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 08:10 PM
Bumparooski

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 08:19 PM
Well for one if you can see them coming up from behind they're not straight on your six. While your firing backwards at them you must correct for bullet drop, and aim a little more to the side they're on. So if they're on the right side of your tail aim a little right of them.
The 8mm machinegun is nothing to laugh at though. I know people call them peashooters, but I have a 8mm Rifle and the thing will kill an elephant. Look at the "Great White Hunter" thats the same caliber he uses.
It's just not a cannon so shots have to be put in the right spot. Forget the engine I know it's hard with them coming right at you. Instead aim a little high, and go for the pilot. It only takes 1 or 2 rounds to hit him, and canopy glass won't stop the rounds.
9 times out of 10 when a Stuka gunner gets me in my I-16 he kills me rather than my engine. It takes some getting used too but once proficient the mounted guns are awesome. I especially like them on the TB-3 russian bomber. Of course on the Stuka you don't have nearly as much freedom of movement.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 10:58 PM
My method is to sucker them in, after I dump my load on some sucker trying to taxi I' ll fly around their base in circles, once someone starts after me I set the "level stabilization" key a wait for them, don't fire till they do, they think you're not in the gunner seat or not paying attention so they will come in really close, then let them have it slightly above the cockpit, it's the only way, takes quite a few hits to trash the plane but very little to kill the pilot. If he breaks off to come around again then I take back control of the aircraft but stay in the gunner seat, once you have the ability to think backwards you can fly the plane pretty good, swaying side to side using the rudder is better to get a shot away from your tail, sudden climb gets a good shot at the cockpit, sudden barrel roles throws them for a loop. I've been take out most times but have taken a few out as well, as well inflict heavy damage on them then bail out.

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 11:07 PM
Sorry for butting in chaps! but could someone please explain to me when a gun becomes a cannon? Is it when the barrel is over a certain size or is it the ammunition used (explosive) that counts???

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 11:30 PM
I belive a cannon is 20mm and larger. --> anything less than 20mm is machinegun.

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XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 12:56 AM
Well, at 600m distance, the MG bullets didn't have ONE INCH DROP!!
Did a QMB, me in a D-3 and a MiG...well, I manage to shoot down both my rudder and the MiG, and then replayed the track

YOU CAN WITHOUT ANY FUSS START SHOOTING FROM 500-600M AT LEAST!!!
The bullets have no drop due to the distance and they sure can bite...poor MiG pilot got killed



Which brings me to a VERY OVERLOOKED BUG...try to shoot your guns and will se a drop after 500-600 m, but the rear gunner MG of the 20mm AAA can shot like laser beams!...I get angrywhen I am at least 5-6 km away from a place and the 20mm still whizez past me in STRAIGHT LINE!


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XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 01:10 PM
sobolan -
would it have anything to do with the plane moving forward, while you are shooting out of rear of plane - plus if the plane is closing then the plane is rushing into your bullets and that 600 meters is somewhat "reduced".

Hopefully someone here can understand what I and trying to say and artfully prove / disprove this thought.


S!


Non Solum Armis

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 01:23 PM
dbuff wrote:
- sobolan -
- would it have anything to do with the plane moving
- forward, while you are shooting out of rear of plane
- - plus if the plane is closing then the plane is
- rushing into your bullets and that 600 meters is
- somewhat "reduced".
-


Excellent point. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif




"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 01:31 PM
No the firing aircraft speed is subtracted from the rounds velocity. So the aircraft being fired upon as far as the machinegun is conscerned is standing still or only advancing a few meters per second.
Also it's hard to tell how much a round drops in flight except over long distances. When the important question is how much does it rise?
For example if I sight a rifle in to hit on target at 300 meters. Then at 100 meters I'll have to aim about 1 foot low to hit the center of the target. Not to mention high powered rifles rounds simply don't drop that much at all. Especially in the calibers used on aircraft.
Although it may be a game glitch, but I notice a drop on my machine. Then again I shoot further away as a 8mm still has plenty of oomph at 800 yards. It'll kill a man at 1000 yards. Probably farther but accuracy becomes a problem at 700+ yards.
Also the computer uses a standard weapons deflection of 500 meters. So when he starts shooting he's 500 meters out approx. Also it seems the Stuka's tail gun drops more than the guns on the PB-3.
I noticed this when firing at a I-16 on my tail at approx 600 meters. Aiming right for the engine was sending rounds just under the bottom of the cowling. The correction to get on is tricky also because round trajectory changes depending on whether your firing above or below the horizon.

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 02:38 PM
Ju87D has dual MG81Z, which is not in any other german bombers, and it's the best Axis rear gun in the game. I don't mind it, cause I kill them either way, but it absolutely rips against early soviet planes.

WRT AAA range, look at the barrel length of your 20mm MG151/20 guns, then look at how long the ShVAK is (length from bubble to muzzle on La5, for example). Now compere these to the size of the AAA guns on the ground.

AAA have longer barreled guns. 20mm never shoots you from 5km, I think you are exaggerating, but thanks to it's higher Muzzle velocity it will be able to shoot at you from a couple of kilometres away, no problem. It won't hit much, but it can reach. Still has dispersion and fall for AAA, it's just less so.

If you're talking about the 20mm tail gunners in the Pe-8, those are ShVAKs, which are better than the 151/20 in terms of velocity as well, so they will appear to fall later. No way will they fire at you from 5km though, or even 1km.