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Ironman187
10-09-2007, 03:23 PM
Would someone please tell me step by step how to get a flight of fighters to escort a flight of bombers. I have tried everything I can think of. Doing it the way you would attach aircraft. Going to "Target", but all my escorting aircraft do is go around in circles. Help PLEASE.

LEXX_Luthor
10-09-2007, 03:34 PM
Its been long time since I did that but...

I assume you have been using FMB to SET the escorting aircraft to the bombers. The escorts will only join up if they come within visual range of the bombers ... about 7km I think. Also, the SET won't take unless its made to the second waypoint (waypoint "1" as I think they start counting from zero). But I'm a little fuzzy on that now.

I forgot what the FMB interface looks like, so I can't give a step tutorial. Have you tried the Mission Sculptor forum?

LEXX_Luthor
10-09-2007, 04:03 PM
Also, look at some other missions, both with FMB and WordPad or some text editor, to see how its done. That helped me.

Ironman187
10-09-2007, 08:36 PM
I can lock a betty onto zekes. I can lock A-20 onto hellcats. I do this using the target set. I cannot lock fighters to bombers. This sucks because you can't set steer points for the bombers, they just folow the fighters. That "Type, Target" Just exactly what does that do? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

LEXX_Luthor
10-09-2007, 10:32 PM
Your best bet is the Mission Builder forum.

It does work, but even I spent a long time figuring it out. I eventually mastered it far beyond Oleg's intention, having bomber formations escort bomber formations in various "tree" or "branch" style structures to create mass bomber formations after takeoff. The neat thing -- the lead bomber needed full waypoints while all following bombers only needed one waypoint (the SET) waypoint. The escorting bombers performed as bombers and dropped bombs when the lead formation dropped bombs. It was pretty advanced stuff, but was somewhat ruined by totally needless AI vs AI collision modelling as the AI cannot avoid collision outside its own flight. In some of the tighter SET structures, fully half the bombers would be destroyed in collisions as they tried to gain position. I got up to about 27 bombers in one functional AI formation, using 9 flights of 3 aircraft each. It was an amazing sight, especially seeing them form up as they came off the airfield. I set waypoints to lead bomber formation that kept it near the airfield while the rest took off. Maybe 10 minutes total.

Ironman187
10-10-2007, 10:15 AM
Collisions= Set waypoint (WP) farther apart. Set WP after attack farther out from target. Give each flight different altitudes. I put up 16F6Fs, escorted by 16 P-38s. I had to put bombs on the P-38s to get them to follow the F6Fs. All the aircraft attacked ground targets (GTs), but would not defend F6Fs when I put Zekes in to attack F6Fs. I love this sim, but damn it's frustrating. The manual isn't very clear on how to get this right. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

LEXX_Luthor
10-10-2007, 10:44 AM
Waypoints don't help when you set bombers to "escort" bombers. They fly a hardcoded distance from the bombers they "escort" ... and all at the same altitude.

Try it ~> Heavy level bombers. Unless Oleg changed something since pre~Pe2 FB.

dbillo
10-10-2007, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Ironman187:
Would someone please tell me step by step how to get a flight of fighters to escort a flight of bombers. I have tried everything I can think of. Doing it the way you would attach aircraft. Going to "Target", but all my escorting aircraft do is go around in circles. Help PLEASE.
Step 1: Lay out the course of your bombers, with at least four waypoints, just to be sure there are enough.

Step 2: Lay out the course of your escort fighters, roughly parallel to the bombers course, with corresponding waypoints a short distance away, but 200-300m higher altitude.

Step 3: For each fighter escort waypoint, use the "Set" button and make the target the corresponding bomber waypoint.

That will generally do it, subject to some caveats. As LEXX mentioned, you may want to have one waypooint for the escort fighters BEFORE they start escorting.

Also, the fighters will STOP escorting at the second-to-last waypoint that you have the "Set...Target" implemented. So make sure you have at least one waypoint for both fighters and bombers, with the "Set" function used, beyond the last point where you want the escorting to continue.

The fighters will NOT follow their exact waypoints, but will zigzag and circle along this route to keep the bombers they are escorting in sight.

Bearcat99
10-10-2007, 10:21 PM
Mission Builder Forum (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=frm&s=400102&f=50910533)

Pigeon_
10-11-2007, 05:47 AM
Or even the sticky on top of the Mission Builder Forum:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/50910533/m/835104564

(2nd post)

NHawk52
10-11-2007, 11:25 AM
I once setup a flight of F4F-4's to fly with a fight of SBD-3's. I layed out waypoints for both flights to and from the target area. I hung bombs on the F4's and then "SET" the F4F waypoints to the SBD corresponding waypoints (WITHOUT using the "Target-Escort" tag). I set all planes as AI-controlled and watched the mission progress. After takeoff the F4F flight formed up with the SBD flight in one nice bomber formation rather than flying in "high escort" position. (note: without bombs, the F4F's flew in "high cover" style) Halfway to the target area I had an incursion of enemy fighters intercept the allied flight. Upon sighting, the F4F's dropped their bombs, broke formation and attacked as defending fighters. Once they dispatched the attacking enemy, the F4F's resumed their preset flight plan flying as fighters, rejoined the SBD flight and flew in "high cover" escort style for the remainder of the mission. So, yes, it can be done.

LEXX_Luthor
10-11-2007, 06:38 PM
NHawk, that is very interesting.

I'd say that Oleg's AI is programmed more than we were told about. Try it with a large number of heavy level bombers, very nice.


ASSUME lead bomber (say, Ju-88) flight has target to the East. After takeoff, place the next leader waypoint maybe 10km West of the airfield, then fly back over the airfield (do this as many times as needed, but once or twice is good, depending on how many following flights are desired).

THEN all following aircraft, after takeoff, should have only one (1) waypoint to the West. They will easily come within the 7km visual range of the leader, and all will form up. Depending on the waypoint "tree" structure as I call it, there may be lots of AI vs AI collisions. Experiment with the tree structure. By tree structure, I mean there are different ways of applying SET to flights to build an overall formation...

If I recall, even though only the LEAD bomber flight has all waypoints plotted, and all following flights have only TAKEOFF and FIRST waypoint, if the entire LEAD flight is shot down, the game somehow tells the rest of the formation to keep following the LEAD's waypoints ... even though all aircraft in the lead flight are gone. I *THINK* that's the amazing thing I discovered, but I'm not sure if this is correct. Try and see. If this is true, then Oleg's AI programmer did some stunningly advanced stuff, and nobody knew it...


well nobody ever asked


Examples of SET tree structures...

Simplest in form is all following flights are SET to the lead flight.

More complex is only a few following flights are SET to the lead flight, while more following flights are SET to the already SET following flights.

You can make as complex SET pattern as desired, the more flights the more possibilities.

Less complex, and the one that prevents AI vs AI collisions, is all flights are SET to the flight immediatly in front. This would be a strictly linear formation of flights, and its a bit long and stretched out, but if I recall, it had the least collisions.

--

Level bombers are best for this method, as they maintain the formation through the entire mission until landing. Dive bombers or attack bombers are put at risk a second time from collisions as the flights join up on the way home after the target.

furyan65
10-11-2007, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Ironman187:
Would someone please tell me step by step how to get a flight of fighters to escort a flight of bombers. I have tried everything I can think of. Doing it the way you would attach aircraft. Going to "Target", but all my escorting aircraft do is go around in circles. Help PLEASE.

Hit autopilot, sit back then de-action once there maybe? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif