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Flying_Nutcase
01-15-2005, 08:59 AM
Well, whether or not the Me-262 could have changed the course of the air war nice, why not see how much damage it could do in a single sortie.

http://www.jumpintojapan.com/images/fb-pf-missions/b-17-off-center/strip.jpg

This mission, 'Relentless' offers plenty of opportunity for head on passes (there are five formations of bombers coming along the same path about five minutes apart).


Me-262 vs B-17. Mission: 'Relentless' (http://www.jumpintojapan.com/fb-pf-missions.html)


The most I've managed is six downed bombers in a single sortie before running out of ammo.

With 9 seconds of cannon fire, I'm sure some of you could do a lot better than six. (EDIT: Aha! Using two cannons at a time instead of all four would probably allow even more kills!)

So, if you're up for the challenge, why not give it a shot.


S!


Nutcase


P.S. This is the same mission that got lost in the eight pages of the 'Could the Me-262 have changed the course of the air war' post.

I had a good time flying it. I hope you do too. :-)

Flying_Nutcase
01-15-2005, 08:59 AM
Well, whether or not the Me-262 could have changed the course of the air war nice, why not see how much damage it could do in a single sortie.

http://www.jumpintojapan.com/images/fb-pf-missions/b-17-off-center/strip.jpg

This mission, 'Relentless' offers plenty of opportunity for head on passes (there are five formations of bombers coming along the same path about five minutes apart).


Me-262 vs B-17. Mission: 'Relentless' (http://www.jumpintojapan.com/fb-pf-missions.html)


The most I've managed is six downed bombers in a single sortie before running out of ammo.

With 9 seconds of cannon fire, I'm sure some of you could do a lot better than six. (EDIT: Aha! Using two cannons at a time instead of all four would probably allow even more kills!)

So, if you're up for the challenge, why not give it a shot.


S!


Nutcase


P.S. This is the same mission that got lost in the eight pages of the 'Could the Me-262 have changed the course of the air war' post.

I had a good time flying it. I hope you do too. :-)

WUAF_Badsight
01-15-2005, 02:56 PM
i have a bomber kill Me262 training coop

all the 4 engine bombers are there

my highest score is 4800 points , 12 bombers shot down

the B-17 is the strongest bomber of them all & is stronger than the B-29

the Pe-8 feels the eaisest to knock down

Flying_Nutcase
01-15-2005, 04:06 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
i have a bomber kill Me262 training coop

all the 4 engine bombers are there

my highest score is 4800 points , 12 bombers shot down

QUOTE]

Out of interest, did you use head-on tactics?

GerritJ9
01-15-2005, 04:24 PM
So far my maximum is four- one with R4Ms and three with 30mm.

Atomic_Marten
01-15-2005, 06:25 PM
It really depends.. number of bombers that one can destroy heavily depends on the bomber path length. If you set-up a mission with bombers on 20km away mission, there is need to inflict heavy damage on him.

If not, you just have to give him accurate short 30mm burst, so that he fuel leaks and/or emmit smoke from some of it's engines.. hopefully if remaining path is long enough, many of them will go down because of lacking fuel, or engine failure..

About Me262 itself as a interceptor, my opinion is not that high (due to problems with engines) -- also Fw190/Tank can be used for the same role (with fairly comparable successes).. there's no doubt that in it's later stages of development, Me262 would by far outclassed every other German prop. interceptor, but these first versions were far from flawless..

Hypothetical situation is high flying Jug escort attachment, they will IMO succesfully chase away Me262 interceptors if they decide to attack B17 formation (of course if those weren't protected by piston Luftwaffe fighters while attacking bombers).

p1ngu666
01-15-2005, 06:35 PM
i think ive killed 16 in qmb. use 2 different convergances on the mk108s, like 250/1000 and use them independently. also u can take rockets and get 1 kill with them..
irl i think u could do single, small group, all as firing types

WUAF_Badsight
01-15-2005, 06:41 PM
i would gladly turn fight P-47s in the Schwalb

not many get DF pratice in it , it has its own dis-advantages & advantages

as for head-on attacks , they are highly effective , but in the 262 my first pass is usually over 700 kmh which makes for lots of head-on rams

i usually try to shoot the wings off , hitting a B-17 in the fuselarge is a waste of ammo

Atomic_Marten
01-16-2005, 01:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
i would gladly turn fight P-47s in the Schwalb

i usually try to shoot the wings off , hitting a B-17 in the fuselage is a waste of ammo <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

About first one (I in Me262 enemy in P47 and then turnfight), I have to disagree. But only because of throttle. It takes very, I mean very experienced pilot who can take that kind of fight (I did not say that you don't have the required experience, but most of the guys don't have it, partly because Me262 isn't common ride).

About second one, big *yes*. Because IMO it's the best way to destroy B17. From dead six.. nah. That does not work well even with Mk108s (I have to spend a lot, not to mention that probability of me being hit by gunners are over 90% and no matter what speed).


BTW, *almost* entirely off topic, I have watched one interview with one fighter pilot today, and he said that he can fly on 7G in his jet fighter, wearing "anti grav" (don' recall actual name for that suit) suit. I just figured what G's we are able to produce in our FB jets, especially during long full thorttle dives, and then manoeuvres (turning, gaining alt etc.). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I bet they can only envy us. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fritzofn
01-17-2005, 12:14 AM
wonder if u can drop bombs from the 262 like u can in "SWOTL" with a timer on the bomb, ????? or will the timer only start when bomb hit's ground??

MGBurrows
01-20-2005, 01:45 PM
Okay. My answer is precisely 1. The exact number of passes I've been able to survive when attacking B-17s, even at 800kph indicated. I set-up a training mission to practice flying wing in combat where I pick any one of 4 different flights of LW Fighters (1 Jet, 3 Prop) and choose a katschmarek a/c. We take-off, climb to Hohe 65, then intercept a formation of B-17s escorted by a squadron of Mustangs. I originally entitled it "Brawl over Berlin". Now I think of it as "Suicide over Berlin". If I am lucky, my leader opts to go after the Mustangs and I have a fighting chance of survival. If he turns after the bombers I pull out my P-38 and shoot myself in the head to save the Amis the trouble...
You people speak of downing 12 in one mission. I never use invulnerability settings, so my limit is: 1.
Someone said they found the Pe-8 easy to down. I outlawed it from my campaign because I found it anything but. In fact, it seemed downright invulnerable. I once destroyed one in an Me-262. I once survived a single pass in a 109K4, but was promptly killed in my second before I could even pull the trigger. B-17s are slightly more survivable. If there's only one it's not so bad, in formation they are unassailable. Pe-8's are flying death machines singly, the ultimate doomsday device in groups...I'd rather single-handedly take on an entire group of P-51D Mustangs in the Wright Brothers' Flyer armed only with paper and a straw than take on a single Pe-8; I might actually survive the Mustangs.
This has been my one real complaint about this game. Bomber defensive fire - like FLAK - was never this effective. Fighter escort is superfluous because any idiot closing on a formation of B-17s will be lucky to make one pass before his fighter is a heap of flaming wreckage.
I've tried head-on passes. I get the one I was aiming for, but his wingmen destroy me before I can clear their range.
I've tried from high and above behind, diving in at high speeds that have my aircraft shuddering. Same same.
In fact, I've used every possible angle and variation. Same same.
I remember an EF interception. My Staffel took off and intercepted unescorted VVS bombers intruding over German airspace. The first group were SB series bombers. We did fine against them, only a couple of 109s were lost or forced to abort. Then we ran into some TB-3's. That was pretty much the end of the Staffel. I did better than the AI pilots, who just got downed one after the other haplessly doing no damage at all. I slipped in below and behind and started shooting-up one. His wingman, however, wrecked my 109F2 before I could finish the TB-3 off. He was trailing smoke, but even as I descended in my parachute I never saw the thing go down ... and I watched all the way down. TB-3's are nowhere near as bad as B-17's or Pe-8's. Not even close.
I bet the VVS wished it had actually worked that way in real life. In reality I've read numerous accounts of 109s attacking unescorted bomber formations on the EF and downing a dozen or more without loss to themselves. (Aside: The VVS units involved in these often reported more losses in the incident than the LW had claimed victories)
In fact, the USAAF and RAF doubtless wish it had worked this way. Maybe the USAAF wouldn't have been chased out of the skies over Germany in the latter half of '43 for want of a fighter that could escort the bombers far enough in. The RAF could have maintained a daylight bombing campaign more precise in nature.
I don't know what you people are doing that I am not, or what your computers are not doing that mine is, but this is how it works when I do it. I have suspended my Late War campaign because of this, as bomber interceptions are such an important part of any Late War LW campaign. However, I am soon going to conduct tests with the B-17D now available and see if it is assailable. If it turns out to be so, then I might resume that campaign using exclusively the D and calling it "E" or "G".

Tater-SW-
01-20-2005, 02:55 PM
You should really make sure the bombers are in a combat box flying very close for mutual support if you wanted to make any generalizations. The planes were flown half a wingspan apart horizontally, 12 planes to a squadron.

http://www.398th.org/Images/Images_Formations/Formation%20Drawings/B-17%20Element%20Formation.jpg

http://www.398th.org/Images/Images_Formations/Formation%20Drawings/B-17%20Squadron%20Formation.jpg

An overview:
http://www.398th.org/Research/Formations/Formations_Description.html

tater

Flying_Nutcase
01-20-2005, 09:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MGBurrows:
You people speak of downing 12 in one mission. I never use invulnerability settings, so my limit is: 1.

This has been my one real complaint about this game. Bomber defensive fire - like FLAK - was never this effective.

I've tried head-on passes. I get the one I was aiming for, but his wingmen destroy me before I can clear their range.

I've tried from high and above behind, diving in at high speeds that have my aircraft shuddering. Same same.
In fact, I've used every possible angle and variation. Same same.

I don't know what you people are doing that I am not, or what your computers are not doing that mine is, but this is how it works when I do it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Dunno how you do it!

Flying the 'Relentless' mission with boxes of twelve B-17G bombers (less losses), I made well over 100 head-on passes (four to six per sortie) and got hit exactly TWICE. One smoking engine and one cockpit instant death.

And that's flying 'full-switch' = vulnerable, limited ammo, etc.

I'd like to help you get over your anti-bomber blues. Do you want an ntrk to see that it CAN be done?


S ~


Nutcase :-)

MGBurrows
01-21-2005, 01:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flying_Nutcase:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MGBurrows:
You people speak of downing 12 in one mission. I never use invulnerability settings, so my limit is: 1.

This has been my one real complaint about this game. Bomber defensive fire - like FLAK - was never this effective.

I've tried head-on passes. I get the one I was aiming for, but his wingmen destroy me before I can clear their range.

I've tried from high and above behind, diving in at high speeds that have my aircraft shuddering. Same same.
In fact, I've used every possible angle and variation. Same same.

I don't know what you people are doing that I am not, or what your computers are not doing that mine is, but this is how it works when I do it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Dunno how you do it!

Flying the 'Relentless' mission with boxes of twelve B-17G bombers (less losses), I made well over 100 head-on passes (four to six per sortie) and got hit exactly TWICE. One smoking engine and one cockpit instant death.

And that's flying 'full-switch' = vulnerable, limited ammo, etc.

I'd like to help you get over your anti-bomber blues. Do you want an ntrk to see that it CAN be done?


S ~


Nutcase :-) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope the name you chose isn't too perspicacious...

Actually, I tested the 17D yesterday at lunch (I live where I work) and found that model is assailable. I tested it by doing silly things such as diving into the middle of their formation and hovering on a 17's tail as I pulverized it. I survived multiple passes before being wrecked or destroyed. In one case I limped my Ta-152 back to base though wounded and landed.
Maybe your computer is nicer than mine.
As an example of what happens when I try it:
Oblt. Gerhard Seidemann, II/JV100 operating Me-262's out of Luftwaffenstutzplatz Bonn on his first operational sortie was sent up pre dawn to intercept an in-bound raid on Germany. As his Rottenfuhrer dove into the B-17's he covered from above, but lost sight of the RF in cloud cover. He next sighted the RF west of the bomber formation and turned to regain position on his wing. The idiot AI pilot had slowed down enough to allow several escorting P-51's catch him and was shot-down before Seidemann could get there. Thus relieved of his wing responsibilities Seidemann performed a chandelle to vector back at the bombers. Several P-51's attempted to close but Seidemann picked-up speed by entering a shallow dive and soon out-distanced them. He approached the formation from high-right-behind and entered a a steep dive with the throttle at full. He exceeded 800 kph approaching the formation. He began launching R4M's and - for my first time, in Jane's WWII Fighters I never hit anything with those verdammt contraptions - struck a B-17G causing it to virtually disintegrate. However, at almost the same time his Schwalbe was hit repeatedly by defensive fire and when he emerged from the formation below it both engine's were on fire forcing him to cut them off to extinguish the flames. He glided for some distance hoping he might be able to get back to LWSP Bonn and land, which was not all that far away. However, the engines kept bursting into flames and he bailed-out over German held territory.
I counted myself lucky that I had at least survived and didn't have to write-off my Me-262 pilot after his first sortie. I just hate it when that happens.
I would not mind watching your .ntrk. If you have to e-mail it my address is aetivs@charter.net.
BTW: I am not a newbie. My leading ace, Olt Manfred Ludner, Staffelkapitan 2 / I / JG51, has reached his 55th Luftsieg and has been assigned a freiejagd over Vyazma for 8 Oct 41. His last mission he downed two VVS Guards pilots - 1 Hawker Hurricane and 1 P-36 (I don't know if the VVS actually flew any of those but I threw in a flight of them anyway.)in his Bf-109F4. Would have downed a second Hurricane, but an AI flown 109 dove into my sights between us and shot him down before I could pull the trigger. That's another thing I get about sick and tired of, too.
When Obfw Rausch was flying Bf-110's he was chasing a LaGG-3 that was chasing his Schwarmfuhrer and had already hit the LaGG twice when the Rottenfuhrer dove in behind Rausch and opened fire on the LaGG THROUGH Rausch! I was nearly creamed. I still think I should have dropped back and shot his AI --- out of the sky.

Atomic_Marten
01-21-2005, 07:09 PM
I did not read all of the above posts, but for sure we can't mix some things up. If we fly on realistic settings, these ├╝ber results in the number of downed Fortresses are going on serious shrinkage, or else.. you won't survive. For sure. I have noticed that some of you are speaking about how "you get shot head-on from bomber gunner". But that is not so rare anymore like it was before (but in spite that fact it is quite rare that you get fatal haed-on burst from gunner). If you level flight and aim for one of these bombers nose gunners will hit you now more than before..

If I fly against ACE AI B17s with cockpit off, I attack them with straight BnZ strategy (vertically on high speed) - it is proven to be quite safe with good results.(if you aim them in wings).

On the other hand if I fly with 'realistic' settings, I execute high-side attacks. That way I gain speed as I rush towards bomber and I keep it almost all time in my sight. In the moment when I get close enough I give some rudder action in the direction of the bomber, and I turn on him. With a little luck he will end up in the crosshair of my gunsight for piece of second and I will catch him with burst. Sometimes this tactic work sometimes don't (I miscalculate my trajectory). Also if there's no chance to hit better save ammo..

All of the other tactic on 'realistic' settings I found to be more difficult mostly due to fact that in many of them you *can't* see the bomber you attack (you attack blindly). These tactics (for example straight high vertical BnZ) requires great ammount of skill and gunnery (not to mention patience and nerves -- one wrong 'step' or impatience can end up with you being shot up by bomber gunners), but most of the times even these skills will not prevent you for overshooting greatly and wasting your ammo.

TAGERT.
01-21-2005, 07:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flying_Nutcase:
The most I've managed is six downed bombers in a single sortie before running out of ammo.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Try it again at night.. Im sure you will get at least one.. The one you rammed because you could not see it until it is too late... Too late because you were going too fast! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

WUAF_Badsight
01-21-2005, 08:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MGBurrows:
You people speak of downing 12 in one mission. I never use invulnerability settings, so my limit is: 1.
Someone said they found the Pe-8 easy to down. I outlawed it from my campaign because I found it anything but. In fact, it seemed downright invulnerable. I once destroyed one in an Me-262. I once survived a single pass in a 109K4, but was promptly killed in my second before I could even pull the trigger. B-17s are slightly more survivable. If there's only one it's not so bad, in formation they are unassailable. Pe-8's are flying death machines singly, the ultimate doomsday device in groups...I'd rather single-handedly take on an entire group of P-51D Mustangs in the Wright Brothers' Flyer armed only with paper and a straw than take on a single Pe-8;. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ok you got issues , i dont know if i can help

what i do know is that Pe-8 gunners do seem to do more "work"

but really , since AEP , gunners , AI gunners , are so useless they cant shoot to save themselves

they are accurate if you give them a stright shot still , & the gunners on the Pe-8 are firing guns with fast MV guns

but Pe-8s are nowhere near as strong as B-17s , their fuselarge will pop earlier for sure & hitting both A/Cs wings , well the Pe-8s just wants to fold in

i too get lots of ramms in head-on attacks (greedy) but then again i keep speed as high as possible if im going to do an attack that has me flying stright

Veteran gunners seem just as effective as Ace

Fliegeroffizier
01-22-2005, 11:54 AM
Me262 against a single 4-ship B17 formation(easier than a box formation,no doubt about it):
Two confirmed, one probable, one possible...in a single highspeed(what else)pass
http://members.cox.net/wasaf2004/Me262Angriffe17Flotte.gif

Flying_Nutcase
01-22-2005, 04:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fliegeroffizier:
Me262 against a single 4-ship B17 formation(easier than a box formation,no doubt about it):
Two confirmed, one probable, one possible...in a single highspeed(what else)pass
http://members.cox.net/wasaf2004/Me262Angriffe17Flotte.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Reminiscent of (I think) WUAF_Badsight's Triple (but from head-on) in a Go229.

That's a VERY interesting vid.

Badsight.
01-22-2005, 04:53 PM
yea but theres only one gun to compete with the Mk103 at hitting bombers

& it aint the Mk108

Atomic_Marten
01-22-2005, 04:55 PM
I have watched ur head-on attack on column of 3 B17s, very good track, Flying_Nutcase. Particularly that last head-on from little above (on already damaged Fortress).

The toughest part is to line up correctly with bomber heading (correct intercept course -- almost makes me to say correct collision course LOL) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Good work..http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DL Moffet
01-22-2005, 06:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MGBurrows:
You people speak of downing 12 in one mission. I never use invulnerability settings, so my limit is: 1.
Someone said they found the Pe-8 easy to down. I outlawed it from my campaign because I found it anything but. In fact, it seemed downright invulnerable. I once destroyed one in an Me-262. I once survived a single pass in a 109K4, but was promptly killed in my second before I could even pull the trigger. B-17s are slightly more survivable. If there's only one it's not so bad, in formation they are unassailable. Pe-8's are flying death machines singly, the ultimate doomsday device in groups...I'd rather single-handedly take on an entire group of P-51D Mustangs in the Wright Brothers' Flyer armed only with paper and a straw than take on a single Pe-8;. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ok you got issues , i dont know if i can help

what i do know is that Pe-8 gunners do seem to do more "work"

but really , since AEP , gunners , AI gunners , are so useless they cant shoot to save themselves

they are accurate if you give them a stright shot still , & the gunners on the Pe-8 are firing guns with fast MV guns

but Pe-8s are nowhere near as strong as B-17s , their fuselarge will pop earlier for sure & hitting both A/Cs wings , well the Pe-8s just _wants_ to fold in

i too get lots of ramms in head-on attacks (greedy) but then again i keep speed as high as possible if im going to do an attack that has me flying stright

Veteran gunners seem just as effective as Ace <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, maybe my gunnery skills aren't yet quite up to snuff, but considering that have downed as many as 4 fighters in one sortie and have performed some pretty impressive seeming deflection shots - one of my favorites being in a P-39 vs a Zero were he rolled into a left bank and I snap rolled, laid my sight ahead and a touch below, then fired a quick test burst to see if I was lined up correctly, and blew the entire port wing off of his aircraft. I saved the track and enjoy watching it from time to time - I don't view that as highly likely.
Before I completely out-lawed the Pe-8 I did allow 1 to fly in a VVS bomber group on a Southern Front mission. As I had feared, I was the one who blundered into it. I attacked anyway. It is still the only mission Obfw Rausch (1 / III / JG77 at that time, he has since been transferred to I / ZG2, and now is back to flying 109E7Z's in 3 / III / JG77, 26 Luftsieg.) has ever been shot down in.
It could also be luck. FLAK and bomber defensive fire are the two most lethal opponents I've encountered in the game, it seems like anytime I run into either I get creamed by them inevitably.
I believe the Pe-8 - for me, at least - has proven more lethal than B-17's is because of the array of 20mm cannons it has for its defensive armament. B-17's shoot me up really fast, but I usually survive them. Not so the Pe-8, thanks - I believe - to those 20's.
BTW: I don't mean to be in any way harsh. I have abandoned all my other CFSes in favor of Il-2 because it is the best, bar-none. In any game there will always be gripes here and there about this or that. Ce ligere, mon Capitan. Parley nous a-boire.
Non pas du marriage!
Toujours en regrettant,
Nos jolis temps passes.
(Chorus of an old Cajun tune).

MGBurrows
01-28-2005, 01:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fliegeroffizier:
Me262 against a single 4-ship B17 formation(easier than a box formation,no doubt about it):
Two confirmed, one probable, one possible...in a single highspeed(what else)pass
http://members.cox.net/wasaf2004/Me262Angriffe17Flotte.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's some pretty neat footage - took me awhile to notice, but I got it now. I've seen similar sights through my own cockpit. For the three seconds I survived.
Your attack techniques and mine differ. You cut across them spraying 30mm lead quite accurately, I am suitably impressed. I tend to focus on one target as I close, lay my sights and put a short but usually lethal burst on target. I am rather conservative in my ammo expenditures, particularly in cannon armed fighters as they run out fast.
I did not note any return fire from the B-17's, that's what always gets me. In my campaign missions I'm attacking boxes of 3 ship formations (That's how bombers were organized, they flew in in 3 chip formations which they formed together into boxes for mutual protection. Not effective enough in real life, but lethal in Il-2.) and the torrential bath of defensive fire I receive pulverizes me virtually instantaneously. It was blindingly quick in that mission I described above that Seidemann flew. That whole mutual exchange occured - I believe - in less than 2 seconds or so. I was going really, really, really fast; my throttle was wide open and I was in a steep dive, my Schwalbe was shuddering as I closed.
I'll keep at it - save for the Pe-8.

I have a question: How do you save such footage from a gun camera perspective? That looked really quite cool.
In fact, how do you save something as an .ntrk that can be posted? I would like to able to post a track or two and see what comments you people have about my gunnery and flying skills. I can't fly on-line as my primary computer is not connected for defensive reasons (My 1st computer was wrecked by a virus. I lost a lot. Even after I F disked the thing and wiped it trying to eradicate the bug the computer was never the same again. My 2nd computer has been negatively impacted by the internet, despite having numerous defenses. I'm still using that one, but now strictly for the internet. It's 512 MB of RAM never operated FB/AEP at full graphics and I could not use the Berlin Map because it caused vicious stuttering near Berlin that made landings touchy at best.) as I have too much to lose on it. I shudder to think of losing the manuscripts and background work for other stories I have stored on it.

MGBurrows
01-28-2005, 01:12 PM
Chips?!? Ffffffffffpppppppp!

Anyway, I also wanted to point out - to be helpful only - that during the Battle of Britain the RAF was still employing the 3 SHIP Vic formation. I noted on that movie on your really cool website that the Hurricanes were flying in fours.
I still haven't experimented with static cameras, but I need to. Do they just sit in place in one point in space pointed in one direction filming whatever passes before them, or do they pivot and follow things in the area?

Fliegeroffizier
01-29-2005, 02:02 PM
Static cameras stay in one place, but you can rotate them as you see fit with your mouse or TIR...

Guncam footage:

Fly your FB/PF mission, turning your track recording on and off as you feel necessary(you have to assign a key to do QuickRecordings.

Playback your *.ntrk Track in an 800X600 or 640X480 Window...use the NO-cockpit view option, and toggle to the NO-gunsight at all option. Run the track at 1/2 or 1/4 speed.

Record/Capture using FRAPS at 15FPS setting.

Open the Fraps recording file/movie(*.AVI format) in VirtualDub. Set filters to change to greyscale, blur it a bit....crop and resize to 320X240 size. Generate the output movie using DivX5 codec...it will be vastly reduced in file size, and will be in AVI format. This CAN be your final guncam filmclip.

[If you want an animated gif file to display on a forum such as this, open teh AVI file in a program like PaintShopPro(JASC Animation option)...play around with settings, frame rate, etc..Save output as a GIF. You are finished

Or, you can use Windows Movie Maker...import the VirtualDub output AVI movie/file into WMM. Use WMM filters/effects to add aged look, scratches, etc...Add soundtrack if you'd like. Save/Render your movie..it will come out in *.WMV format.

Good luck

DL Moffet
01-30-2005, 05:43 PM
Wow! It worked! I can reply now from here. Well, I'll be execrated.

That all sounds rather complicated. But, I see now. That's a front view, just without cockpit or gunsight. Looks like a gun camera though. I'll follow your given directions as best I can with my own set-up. I'm not sure that I have the right programs, I also have not been able to figure out how to save screen shots.
I do believe I figured out how to save .ntrk's. I noted that if I hit "escape" in flight and choose "Start Recording" it says 1945.ntrk, I can then eliminate 1945 and retitle. However, when I do this I loose all sound in the game and the only way to restore it is to select "Stop Recording". Is there another way?

And, on an annoying note: I have now also out-lawed the TB-3. Why? 2 Staffel / I / JG51 just got exterminated - again - by TB-3s. It was sickeningly ludicrous. I have never, in all of the immense amount of reading on this subject I have done (and I have a personal library exceeding 900 volumes, though not exclusively on WWII aviation) ever read of such a thing happening even once, and in Il-2 it has now happened twice.
On 6 Sep 41 we took-off at 1620 and intercepted a raid with 6 SB bombers and 6 TB-3s. The SBs arrived well ahead of the lumbering TB's. We slaughtered them, all 6 went down and 2 109's had to abort from damage. That left 10 of us when 6 TB-3's trundled into the area. We attacked: 10 Bf-109's were shot-down, me included. I survived, though.
14 Oct 41, 1750 stunden: 2 Staffel takes-off to intercept a VVS raid reported to consist of 18 bombers at least. We fly to Sychevka at hohe 45. On the way a kette of LaGG-3's on CAP latched onto us, but being LaGG-3's they couldn't keep up and I ordered my pilots to stay on course. At Sychevka we ran upon 9 DB-3F and 9 Tb-3's, the raid we had been sent out to intercept. We intercepted, first attacking the faster DB-3's. I personally downed two, for Ludner's 56th and 57th luftsieg. I then spotted the LaGG-3's entering the area and attacked them. I downed the leader after shooting his wingman off his tail (No victory, that LaGG was trailing white smoke when he broke, but I did not see him go down) for Ludner's 58th. I then made the critical mistake of going after the TB-3's. I attacked the tail-end charlie, came in from below in a steep climb where his gunners couldn't fire on me.
His neighbor's could, though. I was crippled instantly and had to roll off and descend away, trailing black smoke from my engine and blind due to the oil that was pasted all over my windscreen. I tried to get back to Flugplatz Ugra, but just north-west of Vyazma the engine seized and I bellied-in. I then watched the 9 TB-3's trundle by over-head, polishing off the rest of 2 Staffel like a horse shrugging off a fly.
9 TB-3's were attacked by 12 Bf-109's.
3 crippled Bf-109's returned to base trailing smoke, my katschmarek one of them. 9 109's were shot-down.
1 TB-3 suffered significant damage, trailing black smoke from one engine. He flew on and was still in formation when I lost sight of them.
All the 109's were veteran.
Typical of early war VVS pilots: All the TB-3s were rookie.
I find the result rather on the ludicrous side. As I said earlier: The VVS wished it had gone that way in reality. Too bad for them and their pilots it didn't.

Fliegeroffizier
01-30-2005, 11:11 PM
Go into "controls" in the game. Set a key to toggle QuickRecording on and off. The recordings are numbered sequentially. You'll find them in your FB/PF "records" Folder as *.ntrk files. In the Game, when you slect the Play Tracks option in the main menu screen, scroll down to the numbered quick(ntrk)files.

MGBurrows
01-31-2005, 05:35 PM
Thank you. I shall experiment. You have been very helpful and if there is anything I can do in reply you have but to ask.