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View Full Version : Real Servers - lone wolves? no squads? - A SOLUTION!



Haigotron
04-11-2006, 04:40 PM
mmmmhello, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Before i send this puppy over to the ready room, I was wondering what most people would think of the lack of real squadron to squadron fighting in HL. ***I know of real life squadron we can join, but sometimes not all members will be present, and god knows finding a person as a wingman is harder than squeezing under an ottoman to eat the underside foam***

In reality, I doubt pilots from both sides, took off randomly, and went towards the other teams base, and hoped to find one loner plane flying alone and jump them.

What Im suggesting is the following:
Like the Battlefield 2 spawn menu -
In that game you can use the spawn menu to chose a squad and join it, that way you're always banded together. But, in BF2, should you die, you respawn next in proximity to your squad leader.

The last point can be altered for Bob (hopefully) like so -
instead of respawning in the air, next to the others, in the middle of a skirmish...you can simply switch to another squadron or wait for their return. If a squadron is alread in flight, a message would appear on the select screen next to them "In flight" and not allow you to chose that squadron.

This way, people will spawn on the same airfield, close to eachother, identifiable...and fly together in formation...

We can also give the flightleader some options, lock it to less than 4 planes (or keep the number of planes/squadron historical)

NOW BRING ON THE CRITICISM...I need a good lesson http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

georgeo76
04-11-2006, 05:25 PM
The only thing that keeps groups of pilots flying together now is the desire to do so. Some do, most don't bother.

This system would be interesting, but I'd guess that ppl would rather fly lone-wolf than bother.

Haigotron
04-11-2006, 06:26 PM
True true, alas,

but it can still be an option, and if someone wishes to fly lone wolf, then can simply not chose a squadron

xTHRUDx
04-11-2006, 06:34 PM
if where up to me, i'd just do batch respawns. kinda like a shorter less resource intensive version of death kick without the kick.

Jumoschwanz
04-11-2006, 07:20 PM
Well I think with the small numbers of players on most maps, that in effect, maybe one or two players can represent a whole squadron.
And yes, just because you spawn next in the proximity of a squadron, does not mean that pilot will have any skills necessary to stay in formation, or know anything about team tactics.

The pilots who are in squads and want to fly as a team do it right now as we write this, and those who don't care to, no matter if they take off with teamates in a coop or dogfight server, will not stay with them anyway.

Above all I would like to continue to have the power to do whatever I want on a dogfiht server. Those who like squads can join them, fly in the online wars, and find all manner of anal-retentive activities they can partake in.

If it is an option that can be ticked off or on then that would be good though. The more features the better. But the free-for-all dogfight server will always be popular, and that is reason enough to keep them going.

Then also coms are an issue, unless you also want to force everyone to use coms, they are not going to do much good if you cannot communicat with them, and I don't know if even half the pilots on HL use them.

So I am always for any additions to the sim, but only if they are an option and can be disabled so the sim can continue to provide entertainment for every level of gamer or simmer.

ImpStarDuece
04-11-2006, 07:21 PM
If people want to fight in squadrons, let them choose to fight in squadrons, but don't force them to.

I flew in a dedicated online squadron for 12 months of so and really enjoyed it. Occasionally we would go into servers as a coherent squadron and attempt to wreak havoc. But at the end of the day, I'd much rather be able to fulfill the mission criteria when and how I want rather than having 6-20 other pilots around me, who can't agree on the plane we want to fly, the target we want to strike, that altitude we should fly at.

At the moment I fly solo Mosquito ops on HL. There is nothing better than cruising at 500 feet and 300mph with 2000lbs of ordinance. Any time I have an escort, I always seem to get shot down.

The best solution for DF servers I have seen was several online war style servers who limited the plane types per airfield quite severly and asked (but not forced) all players to fly in wing-pairs or better.

The other option is for co-ops, where the plane type, loadout, mission profile ect are predetermined before the mission begins.

A few practical problems with an enforced squadron seting:

1. No effective leadership/command structure
2. Mixed squadrons ( i.e. 2 Spitfires, 3 P-51s, 1 P-47, 2 P-38s, 3 Tempests, 1 Mosquito and a P-40 all flying together do not a coherent force make)
3. Mixed preference for mission profiles: strike vs jaeger, low alt vs high alt profile, flying straight at the target vs taking a dogleg approach.
4. Mixed aircraft load-outs (having half your force flying around with an hour and a 1/2 of fuel while the others have 20-30 mins worth, or having a mixed squadron with loaded out with a collection of bombs, HVARS, 60lbrs, parachute bombs or whatever)

slo_1_2_3
04-11-2006, 07:37 PM
I would much rathewr fly in formation than alone and would also like the enemy to be doin the same . I always get jumped by 5 different planes just tryin to get in front of each other t kill me and no help is ever around or realy cares to help. When I see someone in trouble I try to help them but I say I like the idea of forming up I always try to ge tpeople to form up with me or form up with them but they refuse or sometimes dodge me.

Stigler_9_JG52
04-11-2006, 08:51 PM
The biggest problem with this is that most players won't wait for "the next squadron strength launch". When I ran my own squad, and instituted this as a rule, it was hard enough to make this a discipline, but with players who don't even know each other, and have no real incentive to cooperate, this would be like herding cats.

Feathered_IV
04-11-2006, 09:33 PM
When the Il-2 engine WW1 sim is released, the lone-wolf thing will suddenly be much more accurate historically. Looking forward to that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Haigotron
04-11-2006, 10:00 PM
excellent points !!!!

1) i definitely would like it to be an option, as a side bar called squads, and whoever joins the game, they could click on the tab, and chose to join a squad...

2) ... if not, click on the BOB version of "armament" and fly awaay as a loner ..er lone wolf http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

3)...i can see where comm can be an issue...

anyone else?

TX-Zen
04-12-2006, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
So I am always for any additions to the sim, but only if they are an option and can be disabled so the sim can continue to provide entertainment for every level of gamer or simmer.


+1

WOLFMondo
04-12-2006, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by georgeo76:
The only thing that keeps groups of pilots flying together now is the desire to do so. Some do, most don't bother.

This system would be interesting, but I'd guess that ppl would rather fly lone-wolf than bother.

The squad system in BF2 does work. But BF2 is different as its an FPS but it is a good system. Regardless if your in a clan or whatever you can join a server, join a squad and work with that squad as you get the same orders and you can see each other clearly on the map. Essentially lone wolves in BF2 are dead weight. But thats BF2.


Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:

1. No effective leadership/command structure


In the BF2 system you have a commander for each side who has various abilities and then each squad on each team has a leader who can request the commander to either give orders, support or use his abilities to help the squad. It does work, a good commander with enough players in squads will win a map every time.

I don't think it will work that well for a game like a combat flight sim though.

Haigotron
04-12-2006, 07:53 AM
In the BF2 system you have a commander for each side who has various abilities and then each squad on each team has a leader who can request the commander to either give orders, support or use his abilities to help the squad. It does work, a good commander with enough players in squads will win a map every time.

I don't think it will work that well for a game like a combat flight sim though.

That's also a good point, i doubt anyone wants to stay inside the comm tower at the base, and watch enviously as everyone takes off..or would they?

but each squad leader can mark a waypoint/altitude on the map BEFORE taking off...this would remain static, and realistic, as in real life....

and I agree, that sometimes the commander can be the bane of a team in BF2

anyone else wanna beat his matter like eggs in a pan? (mmmm so hungry)