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View Full Version : Dear FH community pls stop to complain about the Raider RW



PNgamerGER
05-06-2019, 09:31 PM
Hello,

This here is from Clutchmeister:

"Another day, another session of hearing people complain about not being able to react to attacks after two years of complaining about people reacting to their attacks."

He is right and this is so tue ! In my opinion the Devs did a pretty good job with the Raider RW. He´s absl. fine. This game has a high learning curve and you can react to everything with training and practise. I respect and accept everyone with his opinion here but, some ppl here need rly to come down and relax.

Greetings

Meanpie13
05-06-2019, 09:52 PM
Or the Devs could just admit they make mistakes and work towards fixing all the issues with their reworked characters?
- Raider is now broken OP
- Berzerker still had a ridiculous amount of Hyper armor and damage
- Conqueror's shield bash still sucks
- LB still doesn't have a decent offense
- Kensei still needs faster side lights
- Highlander is still really weird with polarizing matchups and a buggy Offensive Stance
- Nobushi still needs more attention/a faster light opener or something
- Aramusha still doesn't work at high level play and destroys everyone else
- PK is still a light spammer and absolutely nothing else
- Nuxia is still just PK, but with traps that almost never work
- Valkyrie still isn't where the Devs think she needs to be
- Shinobi's entire kit doesn't belong in a game like For Honor, no one knows what to do with him
- Centurion is still mostly useless
- Gladiator's zone is still broken and he is still stuck with a short reflex gaurd

The list goes on and on. The sad thing is, after after a year of reworks and rebalancing, characters have gone up and down, but the game as a whole is still just as unbalanced as it has always been.

rottmeister
05-06-2019, 10:03 PM
YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO, MOM.




I think it may be a bit too early to judge, but the Raider really feels overwhelmingly strong. I feel like the damage buffs were a bit of an overkill. Solid rework though.

David_gorda
05-06-2019, 10:04 PM
Yep clutch knows what he is talking about. Raider is finally balanced and viable to play without being to strong.

BananaNum7
05-06-2019, 10:08 PM
Man, I (maybe not only me) aren't complain about speed, the main raider's problem is damage, it can be 400ms, it can be stun, but it can't be 400ms light from 300ms heavy flicker which provides combo which can easily eat 1/3 or 1/2 of your health, it isn't ok. My suggestion below was make stunning tap 15dmg with 15dmg light finishers just to make damage at least a little adequate.:p

C4rmine52
05-06-2019, 10:55 PM
Nah we’re not all biased raider mains like you. No one is saying nerf him into the ground but he needs a nerf. To say he isn’t stupidly broken is nothing but you being blind or indenial because raider has been kind of crap for a while even tho statistically he’s been just fine. His orochi like lights, hyper armor, buffed damage. And dodge guard break, strong stun tap, crazy mix ups with a unblockable guard break soft feint ? And you’re gonna sit here and tell me he isn’t broken. Even on paper devs should’ve known this was gonna be a problem. If he doesn’t get a nerf it’s just gonna be cent and shaman era over again with people throwing the game in the garbage because they can’t enjoy the game anymore due to a stupidly skilless broken character. Even raider mains find raider broken, the few that don’t are just biased idc what you think.

PonE-Sharp
05-06-2019, 11:59 PM
Dear forum poster: No.

DaytimeRaider
05-07-2019, 01:04 AM
I really do love Raiders rework it makes him very viable. He might have gotten overtuned a bit with the damage buffs but everything else works fine and helps him compete now. Realistically though I dont see him being changed by the dev team. We've been asking and complaining now for how long as far as toning down beserker's damage or hyper armor after his buff and haven't gotten anywhere so I really dont see the devs doing anything about raider and just leaving him be.

C4rmine52
05-07-2019, 01:50 AM
You think they won’t, but they will.

DaytimeRaider
05-07-2019, 02:29 AM
You think they won’t, but they will.

Guess we will see if they decide to touch raider again or just leave him be in the next few months.

C4rmine52
05-07-2019, 02:45 AM
Seeing as how 9/10 of the for honor base find him stupidly broken? Unless they want to lose more players in an already Endangered player base they’re going to nerf him.

DaytimeRaider
05-07-2019, 03:15 AM
Seeing as how 9/10 of the for honor base find him stupidly broken? Unless they want to lose more players in an already Endangered player base they’re going to nerf him.

Couldn't you say its pretty similar to beserker and that never stopped them from leaving him as he was. The playerbase at this point is at a point where all the people who would outright quit because of one character are already gone. the ones who care and will continue to play the game even if it has its problem characters will always stick around until a new game that takes for honors fighting and improves it comes around. I understand completely that they went too far with the damage Im not trying to say they didn't just I don't see them putting hours and money into changing a rework they just rolled out. With Black prior he received his balancing since he was a new character but if they follow their general formula they aren't going to touch or change a rework until another set of reworks are rolled out.

C4rmine52
05-07-2019, 05:50 AM
No i wouldn’t. Because raider is literally 10x worse then berserker and I didn’t even think it was possible. Plus as annoying as Zerk is he’s no where near as cancerous as raider. Nothing but raider spamming lights and stunning tap and you can’t do sht about it especially on console. So yes he will get looked at, and when he gets nerfed I want u to come back to this thread and kneel and apologize

Playing_Mantis
05-07-2019, 06:16 AM
well i guess since clutch can deal with the raider he's not op. of course he's one of the very top players in the world in for honor.

you can just see what the raider has on paper without even playing him to know he's a bit op. the devs went too far with his kit. nobody needs that many tools in their kit. sorry, but were not as good as clutch and thats a pretty dumb thing to go off of for the average player.

we will calm down as soon as the devs accept they made a mistake on this one. chances are they won't.

Goat_of_Vermund
05-07-2019, 09:26 AM
He has the best damage, hyperarmor, fast lights, neutral unblockable with softfeint, very high punishes, high stamina drain with very high oos pressure and punish, and the stupid dodge gb which punishes everything for possibly 40 damage. Compare this to warlord, aramusha, orochi or peacekeeper. Or even Kensei or Tiandi. He is probably so broken that he could defeat the original centurion or peacekeeper easily.

For a start, remove dodge gb. After that, the shirtless hobo might be fine.

SpaceJim12
05-07-2019, 10:06 AM
Dear PNgamerGER! Pls have a courage to admit your favorit character in the game is overpowered. Thank you.

Faithly88
05-07-2019, 12:35 PM
ahh the old well Beserker is broken so this class should be too trick ayyyeeee....

wasters who honestly wants to play a broken main : / ??

He has so much utility but people just seem to wanna throw the top bash ... constantly....

Doesn't need a nerf, needs toning down as the damage buff is abit much.

PNgamerGER
05-07-2019, 02:00 PM
Dear PNgamerGER! Pls have a courage to admit your favorit character in the game is overpowered. Thank you.

yes i have courage and i am a 36 years old man ( a big for honor fan and gamer since over 26 years ) Dear SpaceJim12. My absl fav character on this Game is ( as you can see on this forum for sure ) THE NUXIA and not the raider ! and believe me she´s absl. not on top but this is not the reason why i was making this post. Theres a big point and this is the reaction from Clutchmeister. A very expensive and strong player.

Knight_Raime
05-07-2019, 02:19 PM
I respect Clutch and 100% agree with the statement listed.

HOWEVER, that response is dishonest to the complaints as a whole. Yes, there are people who are complaining about it being unreactable.
But the bulk of the complaints (that i've witnessed personally anyway,) is that stunning tap as a move does far too much. (blind, stamina damage, hits too hard, is too fast.)
The other big chunk of complaints that i've witnessed (large portion of them being from recognizable names on the comp reddit) is that he still has his dodge gb/cgb. That's pretty much universally wanted to be removed just like shove on block was.


I cannot and will not speak for others, but I will say that the sentiment from higher up players regarding stunning tap is that you could pretty much nerf any aspect about the stunning tap as long as it doesn't effect the mix up's potential. To be specific that means no nerfing the speed. No nerfing the blind. No nerfing the variable timing. No nerfing what can and can't be soft feinted. Which leaves us with the moves stamina damage and it's actual damage.


On a personal note this is what i'd like done with Raider:

~dodge into GB/CGB removed.
~Stunning tap's damage reverted to pre buff.
~Stunning taps stamina damage reduced by half or removed completely.
~dial back the damage buff to the light finishers.
~fix the recovery bug on neutral and in chain zone attack.
~Reduce the stamina drain from stampede.
~Stunning tap/stampede no longer do stamina damage to an OOS person.

Raider 100% needs adjustments. No one wants him to be useless again. To state that Raider is fine in this current statement is to do a dishonesty to the community and yourself.

Arekonator
05-07-2019, 02:37 PM
While Clutch is right, he also said that keeping dodge-gb on top of all the improvements is simply stupid and makes him too good. If you want to use argument by authority, ommiting that part is dishonest, at best.

Vakris_One
05-07-2019, 03:06 PM
yes i have courage and i am a 36 years old man ( a big for honor fan and gamer since over 26 years ) Dear SpaceJim12. My absl fav character on this Game is ( as you can see on this forum for sure ) THE NUXIA and not the raider ! and believe me she´s absl. not on top but this is not the reason why i was making this post. Theres a big point and this is the reaction from Clutchmeister. A very expensive and strong player.
What exactly is this big point you're making may I ask? Because the point Clutch is making from that quote you have there is that average players whine about unreactable attacks... So what of it? Why does this suddenly close down all discussion about Raider?

Raider's issue isn't that he got given a 400ms unreactable indicator on stunning tap. The problem is that he still has the side dodge GB and got given massively overtuned damage numbers on his punishes. It seems to me like you don't actually understand the real reasons why Raider is considered genuinley overtuned even by the competitive community. And thus you're using a quote from Clutchmeister without understanding the proper context of it. He isn't saying "shut up about Raider". He's saying, "Stop whining about unreactable offense if you want to be able to actually attack in this game." There's a big difference there my dude.

SpaceJim12
05-07-2019, 03:45 PM
yes i have courage and i am a 36 years old man ( a big for honor fan and gamer since over 26 years ) Dear SpaceJim12. My absl fav character on this Game is ( as you can see on this forum for sure ) THE NUXIA and not the raider ! and believe me she´s absl. not on top but this is not the reason why i was making this post. Theres a big point and this is the reaction from Clutchmeister. A very expensive and strong player.

But it's you who defend Raider rework, my friend. Text you quoted just shows how all new/rework characters met by community. And yes, most of reworks don't deserve all the hate. In my opinion only three chars a real overpowered on the start. It's Berserker, Juang Jun and Centurion. Cent nerfed, JJ nerfed and he is pretty average hero now. Berserker still overtuned, but looks like there not so much good players still play as Zercers, so it's not a big deal.
Raider rework for some reason are overtuned too. If you ask me, well, someday he will be same spot as Berserkers now. But this is not mean he is okay, and people can't post a real feedback about their frustration about this hero. I still could kill Raiders on Black Prior and as Orochi, for example, but Tiandi, Lawbringer and Nobushi are almost useless agains good Raider now. Even against average, actually. LB rework mostly changed nothing, but Raider's rework made him a biggest problem in 4v4. I see more Raiders, then Hitokiri. It's not a healthy state of the game no matter what perspective you choose.

DaytimeRaider
05-07-2019, 05:06 PM
No i wouldn’t. Because raider is literally 10x worse then berserker and I didn’t even think it was possible. Plus as annoying as Zerk is he’s no where near as cancerous as raider. Nothing but raider spamming lights and stunning tap and you can’t do sht about it especially on console. So yes he will get looked at, and when he gets nerfed I want u to come back to this thread and kneel and apologize

Hah good luck with that. Ill come back and say that I they changed him and that my opinion may have been wrong, but as apologizing yeah not happening. Apologize for what?? The fact that I was willing to put my own personal opinion out there that I didn't believe that they were going to change him. Last time I checked putting your opinion out on this forum about what you believe will happen with a character didn't include having to apologize if something else happened. Apologies are only necessary when you personally attack someone which none of my posts were personal attacks on you or anyone in this thread. With that response I rest my case, feel free to disagree with this statement but im not going to respond again since this was not ever a personal issue in this thread just wanted to share a personal opinion.

Good luck to you and hope you have a good day.

TontonPanda
05-07-2019, 05:41 PM
Or the Devs could just admit they make mistakes and work towards fixing all the issues with their reworked characters?
- Raider is now broken OP
- Berzerker still had a ridiculous amount of Hyper armor and damage
- Conqueror's shield bash still sucks
- LB still doesn't have a decent offense
- Kensei still needs faster side lights
- Highlander is still really weird with polarizing matchups and a buggy Offensive Stance
- Nobushi still needs more attention/a faster light opener or something
- Aramusha still doesn't work at high level play and destroys everyone else
- PK is still a light spammer and absolutely nothing else
- Nuxia is still just PK, but with traps that almost never work
- Valkyrie still isn't where the Devs think she needs to be
- Shinobi's entire kit doesn't belong in a game like For Honor, no one knows what to do with him
- Centurion is still mostly useless
- Gladiator's zone is still broken and he is still stuck with a short reflex gaurd

The list goes on and on. The sad thing is, after after a year of reworks and rebalancing, characters have gone up and down, but the game as a whole is still just as unbalanced as it has always been.

The to-do list for the devs.

matt89connor
05-07-2019, 06:07 PM
Hello,

This here is from Clutchmeister:

"Another day, another session of hearing people complain about not being able to react to attacks after two years of complaining about people reacting to their attacks."

He is right and this is so tue ! In my opinion the Devs did a pretty good job with the Raider RW. He´s absl. fine. This game has a high learning curve and you can react to everything with training and practise. I respect and accept everyone with his opinion here but, some ppl here need rly to come down and relax.

Greetings


Dear competitive player, who knows all the glitches and knows how to use them and blast them, although you are not the only one who tells me (although in this case not directly) that the new Raider is OK (even Antonio0075 a player who is not competitive but who plays at your same levels told me that the new raider is "reactable"), does not mean that it is BALANCED. The thing that makes us angry is not the Raider itself, but the fact that the developers, every season, must necessarily put a hero with an unbalanced move (prior, conqueror, warden, centurion season 2, JJ), as if they wanted there to be a hero that many find it hard to counter and that is easily accessible even to new players, and whoever cares about balancing.

what makes it all very funny, is the fact that reworks are done in a very bad way (see orochi, valk,) or wrong modifications and then left like this (see aramusha), moreover, usually the new hero always creates panic, see place of anger against Sakura? I NO, it means that IF they want, things can do well, and that putting a "spammable move" on a hero does not mean BALANCING it ... And then how can you blame if people, tired of these constant mistakes, an they complain about the unbalanced hero? Especially those from the Console?

matt89connor
05-07-2019, 06:09 PM
Or the Devs could just admit they make mistakes and work towards fixing all the issues with their reworked characters?
- Raider is now broken OP
- Berzerker still had a ridiculous amount of Hyper armor and damage
- Conqueror's shield bash still sucks
- LB still doesn't have a decent offense
- Kensei still needs faster side lights
- Highlander is still really weird with polarizing matchups and a buggy Offensive Stance
- Nobushi still needs more attention/a faster light opener or something
- Aramusha still doesn't work at high level play and destroys everyone else
- PK is still a light spammer and absolutely nothing else
- Nuxia is still just PK, but with traps that almost never work
- Valkyrie still isn't where the Devs think she needs to be
- Shinobi's entire kit doesn't belong in a game like For Honor, no one knows what to do with him
- Centurion is still mostly useless
- Gladiator's zone is still broken and he is still stuck with a short reflex gaurd

The list goes on and on. The sad thing is, after after a year of reworks and rebalancing, characters have gone up and down, but the game as a whole is still just as unbalanced as it has always been.

put this to DEVS, moderators pls do it

PNgamerGER
05-07-2019, 06:46 PM
hey matt89connor,

i think the devs do listen to feedback, however, not everyone will feel the same way as you or other. This is an fighting game with many different playstyles, not everyone is going to see eye to eye on every change. While you may not like the changes personally, there were many more who supported the changes.

Rabid Malamute
06-10-2019, 04:01 AM
"pls stop complaining about the Raider RW"

Pls stop complaining about people complaining. It makes you no better then them.

AmonDarkGod
06-10-2019, 07:22 AM
Raider just needs a slight damage nerf

Lotus.Sia
06-10-2019, 10:42 AM
OMEGALUL. These scrubs thinks every attack should be reachable so that they can turtle. Nah, that's a no from me chief. Every character must & should have unreachable attacks to help their offense & opening their enemies up. Casual people are just too dumb to make a read instead of reaction.

The_B0G_
06-10-2019, 11:38 AM
OMEGALUL. These scrubs thinks every attack should be reachable so that they can turtle. Nah, that's a no from me chief. Every character must & should have unreachable attacks to help their offense & opening their enemies up. Casual people are just too dumb to make a read instead of reaction.

The problem is, the strength these openers need to open up the top 1-2% players who are ridiculously good at the game, makes the same move oppressively strong for regular players, especially moves like unblockable zone into stunning tap, which feels like a 50/50 guessing game and is a very easy move to pull off for even beginners, but very hard to defend against.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, why play any other character right now besides the raider, unless you're going to use prior, conq or zerk, at least with the other 3 top tier heroes you have to learn more than one move, with Raider you just throw a light or two and go into your stunning tap mixup. Unless you have a good dodge attack you have to predict correctly every time.

Liduras
06-10-2019, 11:43 AM
Raider's mixups don't even have the lowest risk/reward ratio.

The risk/reward ratio = x̄(the chance of taking damage × amount of damage taken)/x̄(the chance of dealing damage × the amount of damage dealed)

x̄: the arithmetic mean symbol

According to this formula, the strongest mixup in the game is Warden's shoulderbash, not Raider's mixup.

The_B0G_
06-10-2019, 11:50 AM
Raider's mixups don't even have the lowest risk/reward ratio.

The risk/reward ratio = x̄(the chance of taking damage × amount of damage taken)/x̄(the chance of dealing damage × the amount of damage dealed)

x̄: the arithmetic mean symbol

According to this formula, the strongest mixup in the game is Warden's shoulderbash, not Raider's mixup.

Wardens bash can be really good, but you have to be a good warden and learn how to use it well, alternating between charged and uncharged SB along with feinting it, you don't need to do any of that with Raider, he is ridiculously easy to use and does a ton of damage, if you get hit with the stunning tap it just gets easier as well.

Lotus.Sia
06-10-2019, 12:02 PM
The problem is, the strength these openers need to open up the top 1-2% players who are ridiculously good at the game, makes the same move oppressively strong for regular players, especially moves like unblockable zone into stunning tap, which feels like a 50/50 guessing game and is a very easy move to pull off for even beginners, but very hard to defend against.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, why play any other character right now besides the raider, unless you're going to use prior, conq or zerk, at least with the other 3 top tier heroes you have to learn more than one move, with Raider you just throw a light or two and go into your stunning tap mixup. Unless you have a good dodge attack you have to predict correctly every time.

You don't have to be correct every time, even top tier pro players who has 200-300 reaction time makes mistake. Dodge at the right time will grand you a gb if raider let's it fly. If you early dodge & raider somehow reads you're going to do he'll soft-faint it to gb or light if you go for parry. Reading the opponent is a great aspect of the game that makes the game fun & frustrating for not making the correct read. Also his zone mix-ups are a-lot of stamina consuming for raider unlike jj who has sifu.

The_B0G_
06-10-2019, 12:14 PM
You don't have to be correct every time, even top tier pro players who has 200-300 reaction time makes mistake. Dodge at the right time will grand you a gb if raider let's it fly. If you early dodge & raider somehow reads you're going to do he'll soft-faint it to gb or light if you go for parry. Reading the opponent is a great aspect of the game that makes the game fun & frustrating for not making the correct read. Also his zone mix-ups are a-lot of stamina consuming for raider unlike jj who has sifu.

Reading the opponent is what I was referring to with the 50/50 guessing game, because that's what a read is, a guess.

Once you get stunning tapped once the feint into GB is another very strong factor of the mixup because you get no GB indicator. So now you have to guess about that coming as well. I play on console, so I may see things differently than you if you're on PC. For me, the Raider is very easy to use, has an easy mixup with tons of damage and pressure.

Lotus.Sia
06-10-2019, 12:19 PM
Reading the opponent is what I was referring to with the 50/50 guessing game, because that's what a read is, a guess.

Once you get stunning tapped once the feint into GB is another very strong factor of the mixup because you get no GB indicator. So now you have to guess about that coming as well. I play on console, so I may see things differently than you if you're on PC. For me, the Raider is very easy to use, has an easy mixup with tons of damage and pressure.

Having good reaction time helps you to not make read though. They really should at least make console 60 fps, i feel you. Used to have 30 fps monitor & it was hard to defend.

The_B0G_
06-10-2019, 12:30 PM
Having good reaction time helps you to not make read though. They really should at least make console 60 fps, i feel you. Used to have 30 fps monitor & it was hard to defend.

Yeah, every little bit of extra time you get helps immensely for this game, I doubt they'll ever get the balance right, since they balance for PC and balance so the changes also work at the highest tier of player's.

Lotus.Sia
06-10-2019, 12:50 PM
Yeah, every little bit of extra time you get helps immensely for this game, I doubt they'll ever get the balance right, since they balance for PC and balance so the changes also work at the highest tier of player's.

They say the 30 fps lock on console is because of graphics issues. I don't get it. Even as a PC player I don't play my game on High graphics. Some of the graphics settings i set to are from medium to completely off. One of the reason for that is getting stable, high fps. Also there's anti-aliasing graphic setting which helps you make stuns bearable & easy to see by turning it off. Yeah, i know Ultra or Very high graphics makes your character looks cool & all but for the cost of fps advantage.