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View Full Version : Give hyperarmor to orochi



TicioQ
04-30-2019, 05:23 PM
As orochi is becoming less and less playable (the same for PK) what if we change is play style and we give him some attacks with Hyper armor and some that are unblockable?

This way it can stay competitive in more games than 1vs1 and will not make his team lose automatically!

DaytimeRaider
04-30-2019, 05:43 PM
Only way hyper armor could be balanced with him though was if his attacks were slowed down or cost more stamina. If hyper armor were just slapped on the orochi it would still be a problem as people would still stick to light spam only with protection by the hyper armor.

TicioQ
04-30-2019, 06:12 PM
Sounds fair to me, anything but the current state .

The_B0G_
04-30-2019, 06:21 PM
*Laughs in Lawbringer*

DaytimeRaider
04-30-2019, 07:53 PM
Sounds fair to me, anything but the current state .

fair to give hyperarmor and take away in return for the hyper armor? even if they gave orochi hyper armor it still doesnt really fix his core problems and sure it might make him a better 4v4 character but he would still be utter trash in 1v1 since most upper play his lights are parried anyway.

Vendelkin
04-30-2019, 08:25 PM
As orochi is becoming less and less playable (the same for PK) what if we change is play style and we give him some attacks with Hyper armor and some that are unblockable?

This way it can stay competitive in more games than 1vs1 and will not make his team lose automatically!

Absolutely terrible idea and contrary to his identity. He dows need some work. Maybe an unblockable. But hyper armor does not belong on amy of his moves

TicioQ
04-30-2019, 09:01 PM
Oh I know is a terrible idea, but I already made some threads about Orochiís situation... and after the deflect change I know nothing will be addressed.

Si iím Just hoping that they give him something. Anything, I just donít care.

And what identity if I may ask? As far as I know ďcounterattackerĒ is not his identity as other characters can do it better.

I know iím Being a little annoying, but I cannot avoid it when I play a couple of matches and orochis is just a weight for all the team.

DaytimeRaider
04-30-2019, 10:15 PM
Oh I know is a terrible idea, but I already made some threads about Orochi’s situation... and after the deflect change I know nothing will be addressed.

Si i’m Just hoping that they give him something. Anything, I just don’t care.

And what identity if I may ask? As far as I know “counterattacker” is not his identity as other characters can do it better.

I know i’m Being a little annoying, but I cannot avoid it when I play a couple of matches and orochis is just a weight for all the team.

I feel your pain orochi is in a bad place and Ubi didnt help him by pinholling him into a brainless light spam character. Really at this point realistically the only way orochi can be saved is by doing a semi gutting of his character and doing a good rework, not what they did before by just speeding up his attacks.

FlyinBeef
04-30-2019, 10:37 PM
If Orochi will get HA then everybody should have HA. On Orochi it looks very stupid.

TicioQ
04-30-2019, 10:44 PM
But he has nothing!

-The lights are easy to parry (even if they are fast, other characters have same speed)

-no feint game

-special moves like riptide strike is too slow so It always get blocked (if not parried) even when you are dodging a full attack and is not a feint.

-dodge attacks are just a suicide, they ALWAYS end in a parry. As the opponents know is the only way to avoid GB they always have the advantage.

-The tracking up attack has no purpose as is always parried and anyways makes no damage and has no reach (put it with a jump or something)

-deflects can be avoided and normally are a trade damage agains fast enemies. And now, they are just imposible to do, has they change their Iframea.

-letís no talk about heavies.

-no Unblockables so in a multiplayer game is just dooming all the team and putting in risk the whole Macht giving free revenge.

-It almost impossible to have revenge as the HP is so low that you die faster than you refill the marker. Would not be a problem if you had the ability to counter attack, but the lights get parried and you die...

I only play with orochi, never changed since beta. I always loved him and I loved the play style. Now it doesnít feel unique, neither a counterattacker, neither anything.

The wise move is to play with other character that do the same but better, BUT I DONít want to. I just want him to be viable please!!

Sorry for being a crybaby, really, I think Iím normally more compose and try to do interesting threads but I Just had some games and they destroyed my morale. I had just enough of worst players destroying me because they use better characters and better players just moping the floor with me just because... they are better than me but I never had a chance with orochi. I just had enough.

TicioQ
04-30-2019, 10:47 PM
Of course! That would be like if all the roster had Unblockable attacks except 2 character!! That would be so silly!

FlyinBeef
04-30-2019, 10:52 PM
But he has nothing!

-The lights are easy to parry (even if they are fast, other characters have same speed)

-no feint game

-special moves like riptide strike is too slow so It always get blocked (if not parried) even when you are dodging a full attack and is not a feint.

-dodge attacks are just a suicide, they ALWAYS end in a parry. As the opponents know is the only way to avoid GB they always have the advantage.

-The tracking up attack has no purpose as is always parried and anyways makes no damage and has no reach (put it with a jump or something)

-deflects can be avoided and normally are a trade damage agains fast enemies. And now, they are just imposible to do, has they change their Iframea.

-letís no talk about heavies.

-no Unblockables so in a multiplayer game is just dooming all the team and putting in risk the whole Macht giving free revenge.

-It almost impossible to have revenge as the HP is so low that you die faster than you refill the marker. Would not be a problem if you had the ability to counter attack, but the lights get parried and you die...

I only play with orochi, never changed since beta. I always loved him and I loved the play style. Now it doesnít feel unique, neither a counterattacker, neither anything.

The wise move is to play with other character that do the same but better, BUT I DONít want to. I just want him to be viable please!!

Sorry for being a crybaby, really, I think Iím normally more compose and try to do interesting threads but I Just had some games and they destroyed my morale. I had just enough of worst players destroying me because they use better characters and better players just moping the floor with me just because... they are better than me but I never had a chance with orochi. I just had enough.

That is why you want to give him hyper armor? He can get good iniciation tools, openers, powerfullier chains with unblockables, 400ms lights with 15dmg, maybe 400ms neutral lights, gank tool, big damage from heavies, there are many ways to make him really strong assassin which will be assassin, character who made to kill enemies, not to trade.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
05-01-2019, 03:33 AM
I hate orochi. A patient one can always kill me as shugoki on console That said generally I usually beat them fairly easy now. I'd suggest giving a top flip counter attack that can either be a light starter or a gb faint. Plus give him hyper armor on his riptide and that three direction attack he does from a distance (I forget the name). The flip over attacker counter attack would have hyper armor on the light only and would be 600 ms but would be a chain starter. Just a thought.

EvoX.
05-01-2019, 03:52 AM
I fully agree that Orochi needs an update since he's starting to lag behind the more new characters and reworks come out, however giving him some hyperarmor is not the correct and healthy way to do so.

dehlenfeld
05-01-2019, 06:25 AM
there should be levels of hyperarmor if there is not already. type of attack, distance and force

Playing_Mantis
05-01-2019, 08:49 AM
would be zerker 2.0? he needs an opener and zerker needs to lose the hyper armor after feint. stupid op..why is this a thing?

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
05-01-2019, 09:24 AM
You could make his zone an unblockable as an opener. If you gave orochi HA on his distance and a few counter attacks only it wouldnt be another Berserker. A heavy could still out trade him were as its very hard to out trade a berserker.
Or you could just make his first light 300 ms but im sure that would get abused.

TicioQ
05-01-2019, 10:24 AM
I did past post, I only proposed;

giving more speed to the light deflect attack so it couldnít be stopped or trade damage with fast enemies.

The toxin kick as an opener or the way to make damage in a 2vs1.

Recently, to recover the previous sides deflects stats, as now is almost impossible to do.

And finally, to give him back the old riptide strike, as the one now is just to slow. So maybe having both could give some diversity.


I never asked for more, but yesterday my nerves just clicked and, in desperation, I asked for anything that could help the actual situation (Is easy to see that I had two breachís with 2 good zerkers on the other team 😳)

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
05-01-2019, 11:34 AM
Berserker just needs to be nerfed. Any character in 's tier needs a Nerf. The reworks are bring most heros to Shamon level as was the plan to make her par.
Personally I'm so tired of light faint heros in general on console. It's a stupid gimmick that some heros can abuse latency that much. I don't have the fastest reactions but I'm pretty good. I can block light spam a good amount without relying on HA but to be constantly fainted with light spam is another story especially since the average latency seems to be about 50 to 60 on Xbox.

x6_Musashi_9x
05-01-2019, 11:55 AM
Ok, lets address this light spam debate. he is not the only one who light spams, nor the fastest. all heroes have 500 ms lights now, some have 400 ms lights so that point is mute. The reason players light spam so much with him is thats damn near all he has, hyperarmor on his riptide and storm rush would at least make it so you cant just light poke him out of it, and a bash mixup would be nice so light spam and fainted heavies wouldn't be his bread and butter. deflect is a joke because almost all heroes have HA so you just trade hits, and for a move that is already hard to pull off consistently is not a valid move. zerk is light spamming away with 400 ms light faints with HA and massive dmg yet nobody says anything. now it seems every one gets HA, UB, and bashes. WTF? Balance between move mixups dmg and health should be taken into consideration before we say what should and should not be on a hero.

DaytimeRaider
05-01-2019, 02:28 PM
Ok, lets address this light spam debate. he is not the only one who light spams, nor the fastest. all heroes have 500 ms lights now, some have 400 ms lights so that point is mute. The reason players light spam so much with him is thats damn near all he has, hyperarmor on his riptide and storm rush would at least make it so you cant just light poke him out of it, and a bash mixup would be nice so light spam and fainted heavies wouldn't be his bread and butter. deflect is a joke because almost all heroes have HA so you just trade hits, and for a move that is already hard to pull off consistently is not a valid move. zerk is light spamming away with 400 ms light faints with HA and massive dmg yet nobody says anything. now it seems every one gets HA, UB, and bashes. WTF? Balance between move mixups dmg and health should be taken into consideration before we say what should and should not be on a hero.

I agree mostly with your point but however I can guarrantee that the part about nothing being said about zerk is wrong. There have been so many threads on how they need to balance beserker and strip away some hyperarmor that you could probably build a whole new forum section based on just zerk see as how overtuned and unbalanced he is compared to the rest of the cast currently. Orochi struggles so much because light spam is all he has. To new players he is just this broken character but once you rep up a decent bit you rarely see him. He is kinda like aramusha in the fact that he is a "noob" stomper but once he gets into 1v1 he is useless and cant really compete too well.

darksavior1977
05-01-2019, 09:59 PM
Orochi with an unblockable riptide strike, the ability to soft faint riptide into a gb, and maybe the unique ability to initiate executions off of light attacks that kill opponents would help him tons.

x6_Musashi_9x
05-02-2019, 12:28 AM
True there are post about it, yet the devs have said nothing except the one comment about "yeah he is overtuned" that's what I meant, good catch.

x6_Musashi_9x
05-02-2019, 12:37 AM
But I am a high rep player, 64 I think, just because I started a new profile, but in 1v1 it is very hard to take out a strong defense hero, one wrong move or missed cancel, your done. but win and oh boy does the salt fly, yes I beat you with lights, but how many times did you fall for the fainted heavy? He is in a weird spot tho, good yet tough to win against upper lvl players. few things to his kit to break a turtle but not so good as to make it his main move.

DaytimeRaider
05-02-2019, 02:50 AM
But I am a high rep player, 64 I think, just because I started a new profile, but in 1v1 it is very hard to take out a strong defense hero, one wrong move or missed cancel, your done. but win and oh boy does the salt fly, yes I beat you with lights, but how many times did you fall for the fainted heavy? He is in a weird spot tho, good yet tough to win against upper lvl players. few things to his kit to break a turtle but not so good as to make it his main move.

Thats very true I dont know guess I never played him much since I really didn't like his play style so taking it with a grain of salt a rework is all I could come up with. I dont have any ideas how to make him better since I dont play him but guess I chimed in on this thread since I knew that giving him hyperarmor wouldnt be the way to go from fighting him since it wouldnt fix his core problems.

x6_Musashi_9x
05-02-2019, 03:02 AM
HA isn't what he need, the only move he has that needs HA is stormrush, and only because the best way to stop it is an attack as he charges, yes he can cancel and block, or deflect but the timings are tight, especially with the amount of 400ms attacks now. The best thing he could receive is a bash/kick faint, thats the only two things he needs. (other than fix the ********* frames so a side deflect is possible again)

Soldier_of_Dawn
05-02-2019, 09:20 AM
Orochi's HA on his Hurricane Blast may need to be tweaked but he doesn't need anymore to improve him. Take a look at the brainstorms from my thread and tell me what you think.

Orochi Balance Suggestions:
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1911423-Orochi-Balance-Suggestions

TicioQ
05-02-2019, 12:47 PM
I remember your post, it has quite interesting ideas!

In my case, I would be extremely happy with a return to the old value of deflect, tozenís kick and add the old riptide.

Put HA on the light deflect could be useful as right now is not always landing and you trade damage, but is not primordial in my opinion.