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Knight_Raime
04-29-2019, 12:07 PM
Hey it's you're totally favorite, not at all annoying poster Raime. Bringing you yet another thread literally no one asked for. Today I want to talk about hero styles, aka the small description of the hero when you scroll over them (ex warden says adaptable/straight forward.) Actually, I specifically want to talk about one style that doesn't work with this game. Or should I say the direction the game is going in. (there are other styles that don't work but we'll focus on this one because it's the biggest offender.)

So who has this style? PK, Orochi, Aramusha, Shinobi, and Warlord. Ever wonder why none of these heros are good? Ever wonder why the way they are effective is annoying? It's because they all share one part of a style. aka the "counter attacker" style. Well what is counter attacking? Basically your opponent does x action and you respond with y option. Have you noticed it yet? You know how all of these heros are objectively bad at actually initiating/going on the offense? Well it's because of this style. This style asks you to turtle. You actually feel like you're doing something to your enemy when they attack first.

PK? Zone cancel when they mix up. Dagger/GB cancel when they mix up. Dodge attack on indicator. You do nothing offensively.
Orochi? Riptide on orange. Dodge attack on orange/indicator. Deflect to do damage. You have one initation tool called storm rush. It's not great.

Aramusha. Parry.
Shinobi. whiff back flip to punish attempts. double or quad dodge to kick people who do anything. Your ranged offensive options are bad.
Warlord...Heavy from full block on GB indicator/mix up. head butt occasionally. everything else is bad.

"But Raime if every hero was offensive it would be boring!" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....ahhh. No. Look at black prior. His style is defensive specialist. Bullwark/fast flow let him play defensively quite well. But his defense is offense. And he has semi usable offensive options in his bashes and bullwark slash. Every GOOD hero out there can do a little of everything but is good at one specific thing. Where as hero's who are only good at one thing (literally highlander style being big damage) end up in the dumpster.

This is why said heros are not good. Even with updates to Orochi, pk and warlord they still are miles behind other reworked heros. Counter attacking is something heros should be able to do. Not something heros are defined by. If we actually had a good counter attacker he'd be a good turtle. And no one would enjoy fighting him. So i'll just get to the point already.

Orochi, Aramusha, Peace keeper, and Warlord need new styles. Shinobi already has one in the way of mobility. I still don't personally agree with giving a hero so much mobility in combat when the rest of the game doesn't really fit it. But it can be made to work. The others need to be changed. Which I know is hard because the devs literally said they don't want to change a hero's identity. I'm going to propose a new style for each hero. And then slowly crank out reworks for each one. For those who comment on this i'd like if you can mention which style you'd like to see first.

Peace keeper potential styles: Cruel (attacks that limit opponent's effectiveness.) Bleeder (style focused around bleeding and harassing her opponent.)

Orochi potential styles: Decisive (stance based with single hand and two handed attacks.) Efficient (use of draw attacks and shealth.) Battle hardended (use of melee blows along side the katana.)

Warlord potential styles: Board and blade (focus on using shield defensively and offensively with blade based initiation or follow ups.) Superiority (Momentum based combat.)

Aramusha potential styles: Enforcer (focus on brute force through double katana based attacks.) Way of the dragon (mixture of guerilla style tactics featuring tools) Thousand cuts (focus on overwhelming with sheer number of attacks that vary up and feature some momentum based play.)

In case it wasn't obvious Bleeder, Board and blade, and thousand cuts are all essentially "updated" versions of current kits. Meaning similar move animations or even mechanics. But brought up to be actual gimmicks of the kit rather than seemingly random shallow aspects of the kit. Orochi is the only hero here with all brand new styles. Finally Shinobi would be reworked to have more of a focus on his mobility. But less disjointed play for both the player and the opponent. And an improvement to the hit and run style he has in his kit.

Looking forward to what you guys want me to do first.

Sweaty_Sock
04-29-2019, 01:39 PM
I agree with alot of what you say but to this one, no

Balance is the differentiation from the median, which barely functions now. Not trying to be harsh but from what I gather you want honest feedback

Goat_of_Vermund
04-29-2019, 02:20 PM
The only other thrash heroes beside these five are cent and nobu. Technically, they are counterattackers, they just don't have it listed (nobu's Hidden Stance is technically a synonim. Centurion's description is an outright lie, Wallflower would be the perfect word).

Most of my posts are about pk reworks, so I support you on this. The Bleeder would work well I think. I am mot really fond with debuff moves, a stamina drain would slow the combat- a stamina regen on bleed on the other hand would greatly help the pk.

Knight_Raime
04-30-2019, 09:52 AM
I agree with alot of what you say but to this one, no

Balance is the differentiation from the median, which barely functions now. Not trying to be harsh but from what I gather you want honest feedback

No to what? No to redoing their design? (aka new styles)


The only other thrash heroes beside these five are cent and nobu. Technically, they are counterattackers, they just don't have it listed (nobu's Hidden Stance is technically a synonim. Centurion's description is an outright lie, Wallflower would be the perfect word).

Most of my posts are about pk reworks, so I support you on this. The Bleeder would work well I think. I am mot really fond with debuff moves, a stamina drain would slow the combat- a stamina regen on bleed on the other hand would greatly help the pk.

Centurion is technically "mix up intensive" if you follow the bones of his kit. The problem is that half of the tools he's supposed to mix in don't work. So he's relegated to being defensive and counter attacking. I guess Nobu technically does counter attack a lot. But to me she seems like a zoning hero. Someone you respect spacing on because of how her kit works.

So a vote for bleeder style on pk. Gotcha. thanks for participating.

Velentix
05-01-2019, 02:14 AM
The warlord style has always been a curious topic for me. The current iteration of how he uses his shield is quite laughable. The options you have with a shield that size are enormous. It would be used to for defense sure but especially for someone like the WL his shield is his primary weapon, not his sword. He should use it to open his opponents guard, in order to get in his one lethal strike. As little as anyone wants to hear it, his weapon set would focus on bashes with his shield to get in quick damaging strikes, as well as using his shield to block his opponents line of sight so as to easier trick them as to what he wants to do. Honestly he shouldnt be a heavy he should be a hybrid with a kit thats a mix of gladiator and nobushi. My two cents aside I'd give him your board and blade style I suppose, but I'd also like to know more what you mean by superiority style. Specifically what does a momentum based style look like to you? Lots of HA? A zerker type flurry of attacks?

Knight_Raime
05-01-2019, 02:31 AM
The warlord style has always been a curious topic for me. The current iteration of how he uses his shield is quite laughable. The options you have with a shield that size are enormous. It would be used to for defense sure but especially for someone like the WL his shield is his primary weapon, not his sword. He should use it to open his opponents guard, in order to get in his one lethal strike. As little as anyone wants to hear it, his weapon set would focus on bashes with his shield to get in quick damaging strikes, as well as using his shield to block his opponents line of sight so as to easier trick them as to what he wants to do. Honestly he shouldnt be a heavy he should be a hybrid with a kit thats a mix of gladiator and nobushi. My two cents aside I'd give him your board and blade style I suppose, but I'd also like to know more what you mean by superiority style. Specifically what does a momentum based style look like to you? Lots of HA? A zerker type flurry of attacks?

Unfortunately I won't be doing this. Not really going to soap box anything but i've just decided to stop trying to fix the game for the devs. I'm just a bystander now.

But to answer your question about Momentum based gameplay I was thinking of making him more threatening the more he was doing. So for example, If he managed to land an attack, fast flow into full block, and then block an attack he'd be able to "grab" the individual like crashing charge does to push them back (or potentially over if they ran out of stamina.) Another idea was doing a parry counter shield smack into a followed up attack that was faster. and if that attack was hit confirmed or blocked he could do the crashing charge thing again. Basically the more active Warlord played or the better he played the more threatening he would become.