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View Full Version : Still Waiting for FB to Catch Up with IL2 v1.2



XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 02:41 AM
IL2 Rules!

IMO that is still true today, even with the advent of FB. IL2 v1.2 was great! It seems like we have taken some steps backwards, and have no plan to recover, even with FB patch 1.2b. I'm very disappointed!

Here's what I think IL2 has right that FB (still) doesn't ...

1) Faster engine throttle response
2) Faster trim response
3) The wind buffet sound warning me of impending stall
4) The forceful sound
5) The AI that I could actually sneak up on. FB AI has no blind spots!

I just don't understand. I looked forward with great anticipation of FB picking up where IL2 left off. I looked forward to more aircraft and maps and more of the same great IL2 FM. I've waited for one patch after another with the hope that the above items would get fixed. I can only conclude that Maddox games is not concerned with these issues and has no plans to correct them.

Respectfully frustrated and continuing to play IL2,

Stevsky

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 02:41 AM
IL2 Rules!

IMO that is still true today, even with the advent of FB. IL2 v1.2 was great! It seems like we have taken some steps backwards, and have no plan to recover, even with FB patch 1.2b. I'm very disappointed!

Here's what I think IL2 has right that FB (still) doesn't ...

1) Faster engine throttle response
2) Faster trim response
3) The wind buffet sound warning me of impending stall
4) The forceful sound
5) The AI that I could actually sneak up on. FB AI has no blind spots!

I just don't understand. I looked forward with great anticipation of FB picking up where IL2 left off. I looked forward to more aircraft and maps and more of the same great IL2 FM. I've waited for one patch after another with the hope that the above items would get fixed. I can only conclude that Maddox games is not concerned with these issues and has no plans to correct them.

Respectfully frustrated and continuing to play IL2,

Stevsky

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 10:08 AM
"2) Faster trim response"


From the Typhoon manual:

"The trim is very sensitive and should be therefore used gently"

"The elevator trimming tabs are very sensitive and should therefore not be used when diving. If however they are used, the control should be moved slowly and gently."


From the Mustang III manual:

"The elevator trimming tab controls are sensitive and should be used with care."

and so on...


In real life, if you use the elevator trim like a mad pork in a dive or in a hard turn, you get in serious trouble. At very high speed, you can even lose a wing!



So, what do you prefer, a FB-style sim or a Crimson Skies sim?

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 10:28 AM
Come on you cant be serious...

The only thing I liked about IL2 over FB was the sound engine. I havent tested the new sounds, but I have faith Oleg will get them right eventually.

"Faster throttle response" That was the biggest problem with IL2. You could do a sustained turn then come off of it and be back to full speed nearly immediately. That was not realistic. FB is so much better. In IL2 the planes acted like they were on pavement, in FB they act like they are in air.

"Faster trim response" - Already been addressed, still not perfect, but a much better compromise over insta-trim like before.

"Wind buffet sound/forceful sound" - As I said, IL2's sounds were great. But FB is getting better.

"AI" The AI was very crude in IL2. They are still easy in FB, but they were way too predictable in IL2.

Now add in better eye candy, better DM, better FM, more aircraft, more maps, more objects, etc.... How can you honestly say FB is a step back from IL2? As a matter of fact, given the degree of advances from IL2 to FB, I can say that I honestly cant wait for 1C's new game. But I am going to get a lot of playing (FB) in the mean time!





http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehler.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 10:33 AM
With regard to the blind spots,

Some AI do seem blind. I do not know if we encounter a mix of AI experience but whilst some do seem very 'aware' I've also flown onto the six of a flight of 4 I-16 (for example) and then flown up the line knocking holes in them as I went.

They definitly had blind spots as did an LaGG I met this morning.

my 2 cents...

In the Foxhound's Kennel is...

ASUS A7V8X-X, AMD Barton 2500+, Win XP Home-SP1, 512MB DDR333, Ti4800SE, Creative SB5.1, Dx9.0b, FB1.11

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 10:55 AM
I miss from IL2 FM for every plane. Expecially stall/spin character of flight. Now in FB i feel only a few planes flight in air expecially Fw-190, P-47, P-51.

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 04:07 PM
I thinks it's due to alot of people complaining about it as a so called "Cheat". I think it improved turn radius in dogfighting or something like that.

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 04:29 PM
Fehler wrote:

- The only thing I liked about IL2 over FB was the
- sound engine. I havent tested the new sounds, but I
- have faith Oleg will get them right eventually.


BINGO!! Oleg and Company HAD the sound right in IL2...I don't post much here, but I do read alot and I still can't find any answer as to why the sound was messed with?? I mean, it was brilliant in the original - extremely immersive, and downright scary when you got ambushed from a blind spot...the sound of rounds hitting your craft was superb! Then there was the rich engine sounds that differed from plane to plane. Correct me if I am wrong, but the repertoire of engine sounds seems to have been streamlined in a big way - and not for the better.

If I was 1C, I'd go and find all the sound files from IL2 and transplant them into FB for the next patch. Sound would be the only thing that I would ask for - I could care less if the Mustang goes 3 miles per hour slower than it should.


Guelph

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 05:35 PM
Agree....Sound engine is the only real problem with FB. I'm using the first .dll release and it's working well on Open Gl, but with some broken up sound of guns on Direct X. I do like the engine sounds much better on IL2 and which they were back...especially the 109E series which never sounds to be running above idle.


Everything else is mostly subjective since most of us have never and will never fly anything like these aircraft. IMEO this is the best sim ever produced...and it's going to get even better....and it's got the best support.

"Nothing difficult is ever easy"

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 01:37 AM
CHDT,

That's my point exactly about trim ... it is very sensitive, i.e. something happens quickly when you do it!

A trim tab is nothing more or less than a miniature control surface that the pilot can adjust to trim out small pitching moments when the main control surfaces are at zero deflection. Since they are smaller, they have less effectiveness, yet for the small forces required, they accomplish their goal of trimming out small pitching moments (elevator), rolling moments (aileron) or yawing moments (rudder). Why should it's response per unit time be any different than the main control surfaces? It's only that the forces are smaller, the aerodyanmics are the same.

And I would hardly compare IL2 with Crimson Skies ... please!

---------------------------

Fehler,

If you can come off a sustained turn and come back to speed immediately the problem my be with the drag-due-to-lift being too small and/or the thrust generated being too large. It comes down to Force (Thrust - Drag ) = Mass * Acceleration. If thrust minus drag is too big , for a given mass, you will accelerate faster which is what you pointed out. It may not have to do with how responsive the engine is.

We all have reciprocating engine experience whether with our car or lawn mower. Horesepower required is sized for the task at hand, even for aircraft. All these engines have decent time response. This technology has not changed a whole lot in the last 60 years. These are not early jet engines with long spool up times which eventually matured to the more responsive jets of today.

Concerning the AI the only thing I have noticed is that FB is tougher, but perhaps for the wrong reasons. FB AI can see you no matter where you are. I've conducted tests with the mission builder to confirm this. I started flying against an AI manned P-47C in his six-o'clock low position. As soon as the mission started, he began a break turn. This did not happen in IL2. I could build missions in which the element of surprise could be built in to simulate historical encounters. Can't do with FB.

Also whenever the AI flys his a/c seem to have better performance than when flown by human pilots. Maybe this is due to the simplified AI routines taking the shortcuts necessary to run on todays PCs. This did not occur in IL2 either. These two facets of FB AI have made playing it much less enjoyable than IL2 for me.

I agree with you that having more a/c and maps is nice, but don't necessarily think that the DM and FM is that much improved over IL2. I really miss the wind buffet sound feedback since I don't have a FF joystick. FB seems to be becoming more of a survey sim with lots of eye candy which may be detracting from the simulation side. There is only so much time in a day and you have to set your priorities! I still don't understand why some of these things that worked so well in IL2 had to be tinkered with.

v/r
Stevsky