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Silca_Silva
04-26-2019, 08:31 AM
Observation:
The game is centred around the Second Industrial Revolution only.

Suggestion:
Including the First Industrial Revolution.

Added value:
One of the greatest feelings in Anno 1800 is to experience the positive feedback loop that the first railroad/ powerplant creates: steel -> railroad -> oil -> power -> more steel and oil (+ overall production) -> more railroads and power ...
The First Industrial Revolution created a similar positive feedback loop in real life that can be modelled ingame: iron -> steam engine -> pumping water out off coal mines -> more coal -> more steampower (+ overall production) ...

Suggestion for game mechanics:
As described above, building a steam engine shop will allow upgrading mines with steam engines, increasing their output. Additionally, weavers can be upgraded with steam engines. Not-upgraded weavers will be very inefficient (e.g. four weavers might be needed to create current output levels), which will take a major drain on the work force and make sustaining a large number of artisans virtually impossible. Only after upgrading the coal mines will the player have enough coal to supply the upgraded-weavers, thereby creating a workforce surplus that can be used to advance more efficiently.

Options:
a) As mines become way more productive, they could later in game become eligible for train transport. Currently, trains only deliver oil, which is a bit limited. With the new mechanism, it would make sense to have trains pick up coal and iron, delivering them directly to the large furnaces that we see in the current game. The large furnace could be preceded by small-scale furnaces. This would then create another positive feedback loop for the steel: steel -> railway -> large furnace -> more steel.
b) The coal train would make energy from coal a possibility, which would not only be historically more accurate but would also open up far more uses for oil; e.g., an entire oil refining production chain that allows for oil powered cars and speeds up the formerly coal-powered ships. This creates another small positive feedback loop: oil -> faster oil tanker -> more oil -> faster ships ...

GameMasterFox
04-26-2019, 11:59 PM
I have to agree that some of the work put in is lackluster-ish. One of the biggest complaints during the beta that I've made is that farming was too labor intensive. One of the biggest things that the Industrial Revolution had was the fact that farming mechanization was a MAJOR thing, and having that in-game would be perfect to help improve the game flow. Right now I'm forced to create sprawling metropolises just to get the needed farmers to keep up with the needed good production.

However, I'll have to say that oil-fired ships weren't a thing until the 1920s when a series of advancements allowed oil to outpace coal as a fuel for ships.

DukeOfRockford
05-30-2019, 08:45 PM
I have to agree that some of the work put in is lackluster-ish. One of the biggest complaints during the beta that I've made is that farming was too labor intensive. One of the biggest things that the Industrial Revolution had was the fact that farming mechanization was a MAJOR thing, and having that in-game would be perfect to help improve the game flow. Right now I'm forced to create sprawling metropolises just to get the needed farmers to keep up with the needed good production.

However, I'll have to say that oil-fired ships weren't a thing until the 1920s when a series of advancements allowed oil to outpace coal as a fuel for ships.

That is interesting observation you made about agriculture being too labor-intensive in Anno 1800 which does indeed runs contrary to how the industrialization worked in the history. It is in fact the Agricultural Revolution beginning in the 18th century that was one of the factors which made possible the Industrial Revolution by creating a surplus of unemployed laborers available for the factories and thereby contributing to the urbanization. While mechanization is certainly important in that phenomenon, large-scale mechanization was still way off until late 19th century when the Second Industrial Revolution took place where great advancements had been made in steel-making, chemicals, and so on. Generally, the Agricultural Revolution in the 18th century and early 19th century was more about increasing efficiency by non-mechanical means though there certainly were some mechanical improvements (e.g. tiller).

Two important improvements from this Agricultural Revolution were the use of a better crop rotation (it became four-crop instead of the three-crop) and the enclosure movement. Enclosure, while highly controversial for displacing the tenants, were immensely beneficial in that it permitted more efficient land management and a greater capital accumulation. These capitals were in turn re-invested into further improving and expanding the agricultural production while some of these newly acquired capital were also invested into manufacturing ventures. It is not unheard of for some of the landed aristocracy in Britain to even invest in the manufacturing sector despite the common (and generalized, I might add) conception of landed aristocracy vs. manufacturing interests).

It should also be noted that one important factor that catalyzed the then-ongoing First Industrial Revolution (commonly held to have started in about 1750s), especially in the Britain where it originated before it spread to rest of the Europe and to the United States, was the labor shortage as a result of the Britain's involvement in the Napoleonic Wars (1803-1815). Britain had the smallest army of all Napoleonic War participants (it just peaked at 250,000 men), though it had the largest and most powerful navy with virtually unquestionable naval supremacy since the Battle of Trafalgar, but that was out of its population of just roughly 16 million (France at the time had 30 million).

The resulting labor shortages due to Britain's war efforts at that time essentially forced the manufacturers to seek the ways to improve their efficiency and thereby reduce the labor input necessary for producing goods that the government needed for their military. While the Napoleonic War was, like any other wars, a great stimulus for the economy, it should not be surprising that post-Napoleonic economic depression followed as result of decreased demands due to the end of war. But equally significant, the jobs weren't simply available enough because of the improvements that the manufacturers made to reduce the labor input. Unemployment ran high and a great deal of disturbances, understandably, took place in Britain during late 1810s and most of the 1820s. Some kind of market correction had to take place in order to stabilize and thereafter steadily increases the job supply from that point on.

At any rate, I think there need to be ways for Anno 1800 to better represent the recurring factor that is a common thread between the agricultural revolution and industrial revolution: efficiency. Not just in increasing the output but also in reducing the input. Right now, it seems that you can only increase the output but not reduce the input. By input, I don't just mean labor but also in raw materials. Victoria II, a grand strategy game published by Paradox Interactive which is set in the 19th century focused on industrialization, represented these facets of the industrialization pretty well. I suggest that Anno 1800 developers take a look at that game to get a better idea of how industrialization ought to be represented in an economic simulation.

morganjah
05-31-2019, 04:33 PM
I would love this. I would also suggest that coal be consumed on steamships. I will re-port the suggestion below:

The gradual change from sailing ships to steamships is one of the iconic themes of the Industrial Revolution.

Currently in the game, Steam ships do not have this flavor as they should.

I suggest that the upkeep on steamships be greatly reduced, to the level of sailing ships or even below, but then add an additional hold for coal, which the steam ship must consume in order to move.

This will model the important issues which faced steam ships, the necessity for them to carry and replenish their fuel.

Who can forget that the SS Great Eastern was built specifically to tackle the problem of going to Australia and back without having to replenish its coal supply?

For longer routes, coal will have to be stockpiled in intermediary ports.

Will it add to micromanagement?

I think not too much. Steam ships on trade routes can have their coal supplies automated like any other good, except they don't offload it.

War steamships will differentiate sailing ships, with unlimited range, with steamships, more powerful, faster, but vulnerable to their fuel supply.

How cool would it be to defeat an overextended steam fleet by being able to raid their resupply vessels?

Industrial Revolution should feel like it. I love the game. I would love to see even more of the flavor of the Age added.

cherlo2
06-05-2019, 11:46 PM
"I fot machines had stole me job"