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XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 02:13 AM
Hi,
I just upgraded my ancient Athlon Thunderbird
1200Mhz to a newer but still ancient XP-2100
Palamino. It runs at an actual speed of 1733Mhz
which is only 32% faster than my old T'bird But I was
literally astounded by the improvement in frame rates!!
I knew that FB was video and ram intensive, didn't need to be a genious to figure that out, but I guess it's very
processor intensive too. My point being is that
I was going to either build a new monster system
( have built a lot of computers ) or get one prebuilt
by Alienware or some similar outfit. But decided to try
a cheap update instead and I'm really glad I did now.
In a particular campaign I've been in, flying a 153 in the
Finish/Leningrad summer map, I'd been getting steady
frame rates in the lower 30s. This made it hard if I came
up on a city or some AAA started firing, since lower 30s was borderline marginal anyway. But having only bumped up to this newer processor I am now all he way up to 45 to 55
frames per second average. It goes way over 60 in QMB and most other campaign maps. Goes to show you that you don't always have to have the latest and greatest to get a game running well. I am not running the highest graphic settings but I ran 2x AA and 2X aniso before the change and now and am happy with the way everthing looks. I have Win98SE ( ultra tweaked ) and 1GB of Corsair XMS2700 CAS2, although I can't run it 333 DDR speed on my old Asus A7M266 mobo. I have to be satisfied running it at 266 DDR, but it sure should be ultra stable running slower than rated speed anyway!! Should be cooler too. Now all I have to do is upgrade to Windows XP for a tiny bit more speed. Although it won't run much better in XP, maybe a hair better. I also am getting by with a really old video card, a Leadtek Winfast A250 ultra TI-4600. I have it overclocked some though, which is good since it's a year old now.
With this new processor, the new heatsink/fan and the extra 512 of Corsair ram I put on a few months back, I have substantially improved the way my system runs FB. A huge difference overall and for only about $220.00 for those 3 items. So the next time you think you might want to upgrade to a newer system, you might think about saving some money in this tight economy, like I just did.





Message Edited on 06/17/0302:02AM by mortoma

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 02:13 AM
Hi,
I just upgraded my ancient Athlon Thunderbird
1200Mhz to a newer but still ancient XP-2100
Palamino. It runs at an actual speed of 1733Mhz
which is only 32% faster than my old T'bird But I was
literally astounded by the improvement in frame rates!!
I knew that FB was video and ram intensive, didn't need to be a genious to figure that out, but I guess it's very
processor intensive too. My point being is that
I was going to either build a new monster system
( have built a lot of computers ) or get one prebuilt
by Alienware or some similar outfit. But decided to try
a cheap update instead and I'm really glad I did now.
In a particular campaign I've been in, flying a 153 in the
Finish/Leningrad summer map, I'd been getting steady
frame rates in the lower 30s. This made it hard if I came
up on a city or some AAA started firing, since lower 30s was borderline marginal anyway. But having only bumped up to this newer processor I am now all he way up to 45 to 55
frames per second average. It goes way over 60 in QMB and most other campaign maps. Goes to show you that you don't always have to have the latest and greatest to get a game running well. I am not running the highest graphic settings but I ran 2x AA and 2X aniso before the change and now and am happy with the way everthing looks. I have Win98SE ( ultra tweaked ) and 1GB of Corsair XMS2700 CAS2, although I can't run it 333 DDR speed on my old Asus A7M266 mobo. I have to be satisfied running it at 266 DDR, but it sure should be ultra stable running slower than rated speed anyway!! Should be cooler too. Now all I have to do is upgrade to Windows XP for a tiny bit more speed. Although it won't run much better in XP, maybe a hair better. I also am getting by with a really old video card, a Leadtek Winfast A250 ultra TI-4600. I have it overclocked some though, which is good since it's a year old now.
With this new processor, the new heatsink/fan and the extra 512 of Corsair ram I put on a few months back, I have substantially improved the way my system runs FB. A huge difference overall and for only about $220.00 for those 3 items. So the next time you think you might want to upgrade to a newer system, you might think about saving some money in this tight economy, like I just did.





Message Edited on 06/17/0302:02AM by mortoma

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 03:38 AM
That was smart mortoma.

I read that flight sims are the most demanding of any home software on a pc because there are so many things going on for the computer to keep track of. Each plane and tank etc. I have an athlon 900 on a kt133 board, an xp1700 on a kt133a board, and an xp2500 barton on an nforce2 oc'd to 2079mhz. The mhz and agp aperature setting in bios did have the biggest effect on frame rates. But the biggest difference in loading and the speed FB gets run is having one gigabyte of ram. I put a gf2ti and an ati9700pro both in the xp2500 for comparison. The 9700pro was not worth the money! The gf2ti ran great! Sure at 4x and 8x speed the 9700 ran smoother. But for playing in normal time there was hardly any diff at all. It was all in the cpu and ram. I spent a lot of cash learning my lessons. Hopfully someone can read this and save some. I took the barton apart to do some stuff to it, so I have been using my xp1700 with one gig of sdram and a gf3ti500 vid card, and it runs so close to the oc,d xp2500barton w9700pro, I wish i had never spent the cash. I could have just bought ram like you and been in like flint. Oh well, I could have spent it on heroin.

One other big big advantage in FB online is this: A high quality monitor at least 19". I run mine at 1600x1280 no prob at all. I can see planes way before they are in padlock range. That is five kilometers. Big big help. And some money i don't regret havig spent.


Jumoschwanz

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 04:00 AM
My goal was to run high game settings, with high res/fsaa. So it's all relative on what your after../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Nothing but a high end system would have worked for me. Plus i'm stinking rich anyway../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Da Buzz
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Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>

http://www.huntress.com/images/MichaelHaberlin.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 07:33 AM
Great news, thankshttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I just called the local PC shop the other day where I buy my parts and get advice. Almost the same scenario. I have an Asus A7V-133 mainboard and an Athlon 1.2ghz chip. The guy I talked to said the same thing you mentioned. He said the best I could do would be to install the XP-2100 chip. Although he did say he only had the chips with the thoroughbred core? Does this make sense? He wasn't sure it would work on my older MB. He also mentioned the Palamino was the one I probably needed. Any advice?

Also, in my bios setup, what should the AGP aperature setting be for the best performance with FB? Currently I left this as default of 32mb.

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 05:43 PM
Well, sounds like the same boat I was in. They ( Asus ) probably had the same limitation with the A7V-133 as the A7M-266, namely, the most recent Bios revision allows an upgrade to the XP-2100, but it has to be the Palamino core.
After AMD went from Athlon Thunderbird to the newer XP core technology ( and newer architechure of "Quantispeed" too ), they went to the Palamino core. Unfortunately, they went from the Palamino to the Thorougbred A core very quickly, which was the almost the same architechture but a newer, thinner die process. This made them run a hair cooler. But Asus was not able to upgrade those older boards to run the Thorougbred A or the newer still Thoroughbred B, let alone Barton. Probably never will, probably can't.
Since AMD didn't make many Palaminos before dropping them for the T'breds, you will have trouble finding them. I found one on Ebay for $120.00 and had to get it from England!!!!
There are still some around, you will just have to look.
I think it would make a difference in the way your sys runs FB, but I have would try to upgrade to a newer mobo that runs DDR ram too, which yours doesn't. And if you did that you wouldn't any longer have the Bios restriction we are talking about. But I still think you'll see an improvement even sticking with that mobo. Whether it's worth the price of the processor, couldn't tell you, but it was for me, running 1GB of RAM. As far as graphics aperture size, the neat part is you won't hurt your system by changing it and experimenting. 32Mb sounds like too small to me but it depends on how much Ram you have too, the more Ram, the higher you can make your G-A-S, and therefore run higher frame rates. I have mine set at 128mb. I would run FRAPS
during FB at different GAS settings until you get the best frames. Fraps is a free program that will tell you your
frames per second as you run any game. Ask around how to find it, but it's a free download and it's out there.
By the way, you can tell a Palamino from a Thoroughbred by the serial number. The serial of a Palamino will start with a "AX", my serial was AX2100**** something. The serial of a T'bred will start with "AXDA" and it's found on a little black sticker on the processor circuit board material.
The serial on the Palamino will be printed on the processor die itself ( the rectagular metallic looking thing smack in the middle of the processor. ) along with the other stuff printed on it. By the way, my Palamino is running cooler than my older T'bird did.



Message Edited on 06/17/03 05:15PM by mortoma

Message Edited on 06/17/0305:16PM by mortoma

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 05:51 PM
What Buzz said. FB looks totally different.
But i agree with you on approach tho. If you tight on the budget 200-300 bucks upgrade will bring you on the good playable level.
Shoot, i build my rig a little over 2 months ago...and it`s already in loss of 120 bucks lol. But still, didn`t regret a thing. FB looks stunning, that`s all i needed.

V!

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 11:07 PM
Thanks for the advice, interesting reading. I'll see if I can find the XP-2100 with the palamino core. If I don't I'll figure something else out.

One reason I'd like to keep my current mainboard is I have invested in pc-133 ram already. Another 512 stick and I'll have 1536mb ram.

Currently I am getting around 30fps most of the time. This dips down to 20fps at times over large cities, etc.

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 11:26 PM
Popov mate, nowdays with prices dropping every day you can get XP2100 + 333 mobo and 1GB of PC2700 all retail for under 300 bucks. I went to that setup from P3 800 with 1GB of PC133.... and literally doubled performance in FB. You`ll hardly recognize the game /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 12:31 AM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
- Popov mate, nowdays with prices dropping every day
- you can get XP2100 + 333 mobo and 1GB of PC2700 all
- retail for under 300 bucks. I went to that setup
- from P3 800 with 1GB of PC133.... and literally
- doubled performance in FB. You`ll hardly recognize
- the game
-
- Regards,
- VFC*Crazyivan


Maybe your right. No sense in nursing a lame horse. Time to shoot it and find another ride.

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 01:18 AM
Yea, these guys are steering you right, a new mobo, more ram, then the new processor. Which, if you went for an even higher speed than XP-2100, would be not much more. I bet you can get a Thoroughbred XP-2400 or so for just a fraction more. I recommend Corsair memory, I refuse to put any other brand in any computer I build or upgrade. Corsair is hands-down the best out there. You can go cheaper but Corsair will run cooler and more stable than the other brands.

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 01:42 AM
Hey Craz, what's the minimum wattage PS you could use to run that rig?

Great info, thanks!


crazyivan1970 wrote:
- Popov mate, nowdays with prices dropping every day
- you can get XP2100 + 333 mobo and 1GB of PC2700 all
- retail for under 300 bucks. I went to that setup
- from P3 800 with 1GB of PC133.... and literally
- doubled performance in FB. You`ll hardly recognize
- the game <img


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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 03:02 AM
mortoma wrote:
"... I knew that FB was video and ram intensive, didn't
need to be a genious to figure that out, but I guess
it's very processor intensive too..."

FB is very hard on video card and does need lot of RAM BUT it is more CPU intensive/dependant than RAM or Video card. In short, first you need a very fast CPU (2G+) then lot of RAM and a decent video card and so on. But still pretty much all of your harware (incuding PSU) should be tip-top stuff!



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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 05:47 AM
I called the PC shop this afternoon. Looks like I may be able to possibly trade in some of my components towards the upgrade.

The good news is that I currently have an GF4ti-4200 128mb ddr and SB live. So the new MoBo, CPU and Ram should get me there hopefully.

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 04:10 PM
Hey Popov, save your money. Go to www.monarch (http://www.monarch) computers.com. They have some of the older xpathlons for sale. you don't need one faster than a xp1700 or 1800 with the kt133a chipset and sdram. For gods sake set your agp aperature as high as it will go! Now! This will help five hundred percent! my kti33 with xp1700 and One gig of sdram is set at 256, I have set other computers agp aperature to 512 that have let me. I have a gf3ti500 that runs and looks great. The ati 9000pro is just as good and only 100 bucks. Make sure any ati card you buy says "pro". As in 9000pro, 9700pro, these are the gaming cards. But an old gf2ti or gf3ti will run great. Don't get a gf2Mx, they are crap. Get a deluxe card, or something that was deluxe when it came out. YOu don't have the computer tuned up you have now and you want to dump more cash into it? you can fix it for free. I have an amd 900athlon with 1000 megs of ram and gf2ti vid card and it runs FB ok so you can make yours work. Use knowledge, learn about the computer, don't throw cash at it.