PDA

View Full Version : Instead of spending a fortune on PC upgrade for SoW:BoB...



rnzoli
06-04-2007, 04:05 AM
... I am thinking about enhancing my IL-2 experience with a setup like this.

http://www.oflebbe.de/FgShow2/images/DSCF1198.jpg

Reason: it's great that you will see nicer terrain and skins in SoW:BoB, but viewing them through a single monitor (even widescreen), it will be still like wearing a cardboard box on my head. I figure that the money is better spent on improving peripheral vision instead.

How many people have got a similar setup working for IL-2, and what are the technical requirements for a 3-monitor setup with IL-2?

stathem
06-04-2007, 04:16 AM
Sorry, no info about such a set-up, but here's what I'm planning.

Currently saving up hard (given up smoking, thanks Oleg) for a PC for SoW and KoTS, been on target to put away ~1500 quid in 12-18mths to finish in Jan-Feb 08.

So, I figure if I can do that, then the next thing, over the subsequent 12 months, is to save for one of these, (http://www.3dvisor.com/), on the basis that SoW will have a life of 7-8 years, and at some point during that time HMD will be the way to go.

MEGILE
06-04-2007, 04:18 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

agree 100%

for me.. no matter how cutting edge the graphics.. you are still looking through a monitor.

3 Screens seems like a potentially Good improvement

ploughman
06-04-2007, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by stathem:


...I figure if I can do that, then the next thing, over the subsequent 12 months, is to save for one of these, (http://www.3dvisor.com/), on the basis that SoW will have a life of 7-8 years, and at some point during that time HMD will be the way to go.

When that tech matures it'll really put us in the game. Reading around the Z800 it seems they had a good stab at it but they didn't quite get there. Hopefully they'll be able to make there next pitch a winner based on the TONS of feedback they got of the Z800 and get in with a company like Track-IR who can help them with some of the spatial problems the headset had with 6DoF.

major_setback
06-04-2007, 04:41 AM
'Triple Head 2Go' is a cheap way to do it. No need for a special graphics card (if you have agood one to start with). Review:

http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds/main/review/th2go.htm

WOLFMondo
06-04-2007, 04:42 AM
I remember trying goggles a few years back. They were pretty damn good but gave me a splitting headache after a few minutes.

WOLFMondo
06-04-2007, 04:44 AM
Originally posted by major_setback:
'Triple Head 2Go' is a cheap way to do it. Review:

http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds/main/review/th2go.htm

I'd be tempted but Matrox need to bring out a graphics card with the power of a top of the range Nvidia or Ati card. Matrox cards are always sadly lacking in power although there clarity and colour is always top notch.

WhtBoy
06-04-2007, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I'd be tempted but Matrox need to bring out a graphics card with the power of a top of the range Nvidia or Ati card. Matrox cards are always sadly lacking in power although there clarity and colour is always top notch.

The triple head is NOT a graphics card. It uses your existing graphics card to display a triple width desktop resolution across 3 monitors. If you're running at 1024x768 you would set your resolution to 3072x768 using the TH3 after installing the TH3 software and hooking everything up.

--Outlaw.

Philipscdrw
06-04-2007, 05:37 AM
Edit: Oops! I am completely wrong.

WOLFMondo
06-04-2007, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by WhtBoy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I'd be tempted but Matrox need to bring out a graphics card with the power of a top of the range Nvidia or Ati card. Matrox cards are always sadly lacking in power although there clarity and colour is always top notch.

The triple head is NOT a graphics card. It uses your existing graphics card to display a triple width desktop resolution across 3 monitors. If you're running at 1024x768 you would set your resolution to 3072x768 using the TH3 after installing the TH3 software and hooking everything up.
--Outlaw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Will it work with any non Matrox card? I wonder if it will work with 2x19" either side of a 24"? If so I might be very interested.

WhtBoy
06-04-2007, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Will it work with any non Matrox card? I wonder if it will work with 2x19" either side of a 24"? If so I might be very interested.

It will work with ANY card. I wouldn't think the physical size of the monitors would make a difference to the hardware as it has no way of knowing the physical size anyway.

--Outlaw.

WhtBoy
06-04-2007, 06:51 AM
I don't know what your idea of a fortune is, but I just built a dual core (E6700 Intel CPU) rig with a single BFG8800 video card, SLI ready m/b (for later), and 2 gig of RAM for right at $1500 including tax. The only thing I didn't buy new was the DVD drive which would have added about $40.

I bought everything from Directron (http://www.directron.com) which, fortunately for me, is located about 3 minutes from where I work so I didn't have to pay for shipping.

IF you could find such a machine at somewhere like Best Buy/Circuit City/etc. my guess is it would be around $2800.

--Outlaw.

cmirko
06-04-2007, 07:43 AM
real problem with triplehead2go is that you still need a monster computer for it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - the principle is that the matrox box behaves like a vga card which only draws pixels at a resolution of 3x1280 x 1024 - so your computer has to render that picture http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - there is a nice thread in community forum about shortcomings of il2 and perfect landscape in which you can test the view setting on your own monitor....

Philipscdrw
06-04-2007, 08:54 AM
edit: oops! I am completely wrong.

triad773
06-04-2007, 09:08 AM
Like the idea but the LCD edges would give me immersion problems. From the pic above it gives the perspective of driving from the rear seat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think I'd rather stick with one larger, continuous screen. For all the money the 3 would cost I could put into one large monitor and not have to mess with the three-on-one setup.

Just my two cents

major_setback
06-04-2007, 09:22 AM
If I remember rightly you don't need a new graphics card, but you need one extra monitor output, and you get one with the device (triple head 2go), so oyu need a card with an extra monitor output. Otherwise you need 2 of the devices (I think). You can hook up several devices i think to give ex 6 monitors.

It might say more here:
http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/gxm/news/pr/2007/th2go_digital.php

I didn't see FB/PF in the list of suported games:
http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/gxm/products/th2go/gaming/list.php

WhtBoy
06-04-2007, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by major_setback:
If I remember rightly you don't need a new graphics card, but you need one extra monitor output, and you get one with the device (triple head 2go), so oyu need a card with an extra monitor output. Otherwise you need 2 of the devices (I think). You can hook up several devices i think to give ex 6 monitors.

It might say more here:
http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/gxm/news/pr/2007/th2go_digital.php

The TH3 takes a single input from your video card and splits it between three monitors. Only one video card (with one output) and one TH3 are required. If you have a multi-head video card only one of the outputs will be used.

--Outlaw.

Philipscdrw
06-04-2007, 09:38 AM
Edit: Ooops! I am completely wrong.

BaldieJr
06-04-2007, 10:11 AM
It should work. Enable three renders in your conf.

Philipscdrw
06-04-2007, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by BaldieJr:
It should work. Enable three renders in your conf.
Aaaah. I think I was confused by widescreen limitations...

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/746...991052845#2991052845 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/7461052845?r=2991052845#2991052845)

http://www.e-335thgr.com/Athos/TripleHead2Go_01.JPG

Xiolablu3
06-04-2007, 12:13 PM
Thats awesome - You would have a MASSIVE advantage online over those without that setup or TrackIR.

Think how much easier that is than trying to look around with a mouse or hat switch.

F19_Orheim
06-04-2007, 12:56 PM
I pass, dont want a "cockpit" where the wings points forwards http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
(see image in previous post)

good quality widescreen with Tir4 is the way to go....

Old_Canuck
06-04-2007, 01:48 PM
I can't get the wings to face out like that. Having a full size cockpit is nice though but you have to look down once in awhile to check gauges. Come to think of it, I haven't tried this in the best looking cockpit of the game yet (Gladiator) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif Will give it a try after posting this. Sorry about the image quality .. had to photoshop the lighting a bit to make things show up.

Setting up a deflection shot in Zeke Vs Wildcats.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x184/al-randall/wide-1.jpg

Same scene from outer view. Name blotted out in respect for the Zero pilot who took on three of us all by himself and kept us all busy for an eternity of long minutes. It was a lucky deflection shot anyway.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x184/al-randall/wide2.jpg

BillyTheKid_22
06-04-2007, 01:51 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif cool!! good time!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-HH-Quazi
06-04-2007, 02:10 PM
When they make a single monitor that will wrap around seamlessly and sell it cheap enough for John Q. Public to afford it, that is when I would like to start looking this direction. Hopefully 6DOF with BoB SOW will help some with the single flat screen monitor.

WhtBoy
06-04-2007, 02:28 PM
I wonder if it would be possible to cut the plastic off the right side of the left hand monitor, the left side off the right hand monitor, and both sides off the middle monitor so that they could be positioned very close together. Has anyone ever disected a newer LCD monitor?


--Outlaw.

Old_Canuck
06-04-2007, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
When they make a single monitor that will wrap around seamlessly and sell it cheap enough for John Q. Public to afford it, that is when I would like to start looking this direction. Hopefully 6DOF with BoB SOW will help some with the single flat screen monitor.

I hear you. My three monitors also get used for 3D drafting and other graphics projects or it would have been a hard call. This parabolic monitor below is tempting but still a bit pricey at 24000 Euros (entry level).

http://www.est-kl.com/projection/elumens/vs_visionstationsplash.jpg

Best cockpit in game IMHO as displayed by Matrox triplehead2go minus the monitor sidebars -- when the 3D lenses are mounted there's only a 3/8" bar between the monitors. Have been flying online for months now at perfect settings and haven't noticed any appreciable frame rate drop due to the Matrox setup. As stated earlier, the Matrox device is a peripheral which runs off a compatible graphics card. My card is not even top of the line: Nvidia 7800 GS.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x184/al-randall/glad.jpg

Airmail109
06-04-2007, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
I can't get the wings to face out like that. Having a full size cockpit is nice though but you have to look down once in awhile to check gauges. Come to think of it, I haven't tried this in the best looking cockpit of the game yet (Gladiator) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif Will give it a try after posting this. Sorry about the image quality .. had to photoshop the lighting a bit to make things show up.

Setting up a deflection shot in Zeke Vs Wildcats.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x184/al-randall/wide-1.jpg

Same scene from outer view. Name blotted out in respect for the Zero pilot who took on three of us all by himself and kept us all busy for an eternity of long minutes. It was a lucky deflection shot anyway.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x184/al-randall/wide2.jpg

how the ****?

I thought Il2 didnt support widescreen? Is that just a blown up picture with the top and bottom cut off or is that truly uber widescreen? what settings did you change to do thst?

How did you get it so it didn't display the horrible forward swept wings?

Morteiin
06-04-2007, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by WhtBoy:
I wonder if it would be possible to cut the plastic off the right side of the left hand monitor, the left side off the right hand monitor, and both sides off the middle monitor so that they could be positioned very close together. Has anyone ever disected a newer LCD monitor?


--Outlaw.

I've done that. You're still left with approx. 5mm on either side of the viewable area.

In terms of a wrap-around screen, there's a technology being developed called OLED(organic light-emitting diode). It's been mentioned here at least once. Put simply, the screen is like a flexible piece of plastic that becomes transparent when the diodes aren't emitting. I have no idea how far away the developers are from making actual products, or if they ever will at all. Would be the ideal stuff though.

Old_Canuck
06-04-2007, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:

how the ****?

I thought Il2 didnt support widescreen? Is that just a blown up picture with the top and bottom cut off or is that truly uber widescreen? what settings did you change to do thst?

How did you get it so it didn't display the horrible forward swept wings?

That's the way Matrox displays it, Sir. The settings are 3072 x 768. You don't get a lot of extra wide view in cockpit but it seems you are always in zoom view and when you go to gunsight view it's like super-zoom. Great for spotting those little red meatballs from a long ways off http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

M_Gunz
06-05-2007, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by cmirko:
real problem with triplehead2go is that you still need a monster computer for it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - the principle is that the matrox box behaves like a vga card which only draws pixels at a resolution of 3x1280 x 1024 - so your computer has to render that picture http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - there is a nice thread in community forum about shortcomings of il2 and perfect landscape in which you can test the view setting on your own monitor....

1920 x 480 would look about as good as TV and is only 50% more pixels than 1024x768.
There's people running at 1600-some by 1280, compared that to 3072 x 768 is not that much more.

Those visors, when they get to the wraparound goggle stage then whooo-hoo!
Even the old ones with the 2 flat LCD's are a gas just from the apparent size.

cmirko
06-05-2007, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by WhtBoy:
I wonder if it would be possible to cut the plastic off the right side of the left hand monitor, the left side off the right hand monitor, and both sides off the middle monitor so that they could be positioned very close together. Has anyone ever disected a newer LCD monitor?
--Outlaw.

no need to, with 3 fresnel lenses you could get uninterupted view over all monitors....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIJg522nOYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9POFJo6E1I

striker-85
06-05-2007, 10:18 AM
I have been using the TripleHead2Go for a year now and it works great.

The TH2G simulates a large monitor, you choose the size from a list, I use 3072x768. It will work with any video card because the video card thinks it is just connected to a large monitor.

The TH2G then takes the video from the card and splits it across the three monitors. The selectable resolutions are multiples of 3 in the width because it will be put on 3 monitors. Since I use 3072 x 768 it is 1024x768 on each monitor.

You will need a good Video card to drive such a large resolution. I initially had an ATI (forgot the model now) that was my first card in the system, then moved up to an Nvidia 7950GX2 and now use the Nvidia 8800 GTX. It gives me pretty good frame rates, 40+ FPS in BD with perfect settings at 3072 x 768.

The TH2G effectively just gives you a very wide screen. It is because of the Use3Renders option in the il2.conf that you can split 3 views across the screens. If not for that you would just have the equivalent of a wide screen display. However the TH2G provides you 3 screens of equal area so when you use Use3renders it is able to fully place one view on each screen. You could use the Use3Renders on a single monitor or wide screen display (I give instructions on how to do this in the post listed below) but if your width is not a large multiple of 3, like 3072 x 768, it will look very crappy on a single monitor or wide screen display.

When using Use3Renders I believe each monitor represents around 90 degrees of view. So you have around 270 degrees of view with all 3 monitors. That is why IF you have all 3 monitors lined up straight in a row the wings look pointed out. I was VERY disappointed the first time I saw this and at first I didn't understand why. However I learned 2 things: First move the 2 monitors on the sides so they are tiled inwards, it doesn't have to be a huge tilt, just a little bit. Second, once the monitors are tilted in and you are sitting in the 'focal point' you do not notice the wings point out. From your peripheral vision they seem to point straight out to the sides. I have Track IR so as I move my head the wings move into the center screen and you never notice any oddity or wings pointed out at all. However people standing behind you or pictures taken from a distance will notice the wings sticking out, but as long as you are in the 'focal point' you do not notice this.

There is a problem with using Use3Renders and Perfect settings. I describe the problem in the following post, but basically it is just a flashing black box on the lower left corner on the the left monitor. The problem is not with the TH2G, it is an issue with the game itself. You can see 3 views and see the problem I describe even if you only have a single monitor. I have provided instructions on how to see 3 views on a single monitor in the following post.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/4521077615?r=4501038135

Old_Canuck
06-06-2007, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by striker-85:
I have been using the TripleHead2Go for a year now and it works great.

....
When using Use3Renders I believe each monitor represents around 90 degrees of view. So you have around 270 degrees of view with all 3 monitors. ....

Thanks for reposting this this info, striker-85. Switched over to 270 degree view last night and stayed up waaaay too late playing around with it. The wings sticking out the sides are not a problem in normal flight if you zoom in a bit. Then you're seeing the leading edge and maybe half the way back through the wing chord. In combat the instinct is to zoom way back to get a better field of view and it's amazing how easy it is to ignore those wings sticking out the sides when you're busy following the movements of the adversary. Even with the latest driver for my Nvidia 7800 GS there's too much flickering textures in perfect mode so I've dropped back to Excellent mode but that's a small price to pay for the extra FOV. Not likely that they'll fix this bug at this stage of IL2's lifespan but it's still great to have the options open. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

For sake of comparison, here's my fav. cockpit again with use3render=1. This view is looking out the side so you can see that the pilot is sitting just behind the outboard strut.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x184/al-randall/port-1.jpg

If you start at normal view and click to zoom forward 3 times it seems more normal than having the wings sticking straight out and you still have 180 degree field of view or maybe a bit more. The outboard struts are just out of peripheral view so it seems more natural. If you compare this photo with the same view posted earlier in this same airplane only without use3renders=1, you'll see the diffence between these two settings as striker-85 pointed out.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x184/al-randall/forward-1.jpg

Here's that same cockpit again viewed with use3renders= <span class="ev_code_RED">0</span> The pilot position is zoomed back as far as it can go using toggle gunsight back and zooming back.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x184/al-randall/glad.jpg
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

rnzoli
06-06-2007, 02:53 PM
guys, thanks a million for these tips, this thread became a gold mine! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

striker-85
06-06-2007, 03:52 PM
Hey rnzoli, Glad we could help.

Hey Old_Canuck, thanks for the Zoom tip, I'll try it out later today. As for the flashing textures on perfect mode Manos1 found that the latest Nvidia drivers fixed most of those issues. I have tried it and I can report that on my system the flashing textures are gone. I'm using the NGO HQ Nvidia drivers.

The flashing black box in the lower left corner issue still exists though, I have tested on 4 different PCs with both ATI and Nvidia so it looks like that is definately a game problem http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif but it is not so annoying. I also still notice some rolling clouds when the weather is set to poor or worse, not for sure if this is a game issue or driver problem.

Old_Canuck
06-06-2007, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by striker-85:
Hey rnzoli, Glad we could help.

Hey Old_Canuck, thanks for the Zoom tip, I'll try it out later today. As for the flashing textures on perfect mode Manos1 found that the latest Nvidia drivers fixed most of those issues. I have tried it and I can report that on my system the flashing textures are gone. I'm using the NGO HQ Nvidia drivers.

The flashing black box in the lower left corner issue still exists though, I have tested on 4 different PCs with both ATI and Nvidia so it looks like that is definately a game problem http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif but it is not so annoying. I also still notice some rolling clouds when the weather is set to poor or worse, not for sure if this is a game issue or driver problem.

Thx again striker-85. I wasn't sure if that driver Manos1 mentioned was for the higher end cards or if it would still work on the 7800 GS. Do you know off hand if it will work on the 7800 GS? It will be worth checking into as it would be nice to get back into perfect mode again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

striker-85
06-06-2007, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
Do you know off hand if it will work on the 7800 GS?
Yes, it should work OK for the 7800 GS. I'm currently using NGO NVIDIA Optimized Driver 2.15822 from http://www.ngohq.com

Old_Canuck
06-06-2007, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by striker-85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
Do you know off hand if it will work on the 7800 GS?
Yes, it should work OK for the 7800 GS. I'm currently using NGO NVIDIA Optimized Driver 2.15822 from http://www.ngohq.com </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
AWESOME! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Can't wait 'till this shift is over and it gets installed. Take tomorrow off, striker-85, -- with pay.