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LilHorse
11-03-2005, 11:01 AM
...weighed in on the "wobble" subject at all? I've seen where reciently Oleg popped into a .50cal sync thread but that's all I've seen. It's not like they can ignore everything that's being said. I would have thought by now there would be some official response. Anybody know what the developers think of all this?

carguy_
11-03-2005, 12:04 PM
I don`t think this requires a certain 1C reaction.

The issue is experienced by a big part of online community yet you can`t say that most of them don`t like it.

In order to receive 1C answer/statement this should be stirred up to a rank of main issue of the game like say a FW190 bar or dot/LOD visibility.

Or maybe someone should come up with proof showing that most WWII birds did not wobble like we have in the game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

arcadeace
11-03-2005, 12:31 PM
He hasn€t weighed in here but considering how many with the problem are respected members and not whiners, I can€t imagine he€s not taking it serious. My guess is 4.03 will be a big improvement.

Chuck_Older
11-03-2005, 02:39 PM
I'm still baffled that a portion of the community experiences no wobble...but yet it is insisted to be a problem with the patch


Doesn't logic kind of say that if some folks d/l'd 4.02 and have no wobble, but others have it, then those with the wobble are experiencing a problem? And doesn't that also lend itself to the conclusion that the folks with wobble have a problem on their end, while folks without it have no problems with the patch or the program?

I just can't figure it out in my head, how 4.02 can be the problem...and yet I have no wobble issues. I mysteriously have some issue that enables me to use 4.02 with no wobble? In short, my PC is the problem, and somehow it corrects 4.02's shortcomings?


Doesn't that seem unlikely?

lowfighter
11-03-2005, 02:46 PM
Chuck you might be right, however Oleg and co. could considerably help us by just stating it's position in this issue, after all it's not one or two users who have the problem.
Cheers!

jds1978
11-03-2005, 02:49 PM
Chuck: this weekend i had hours and hours of yard work to do, so i did a little experiment....i uninstalled the sim, reinstalled and re-patched up...SURPRISE, apparently i had a bad patch as my wobbles had largely dissappeared. Previously i had tweaked the joystick settings until rudder and pitch input produced no wobbles...now they're practically gone.

it'll be interesting to see exactly what's up w/ this whole wobble thing. Bad Patch? Bad Piloting? Bad equipment? only The Shadow knows.

trumper
11-03-2005, 03:10 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gifI don't think i have the "wobble" problem in the patch,could someone post a track showing the wobble,cheers

Chuck_Older
11-03-2005, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by lowfighter:
Chuck you might be right, however Oleg and co. could considerably help us by just stating it's position in this issue, after all it's not one or two users who have the problem.
Cheers!

Oh, I know lots of people have the problem. I think Oleg's standpoint would be "Patch 4.02 has no errors of this kind. Check PC for problem on your end". I think the real trick will be diagnosing the problem- if a good, 'clean' install shows nothing of this sort of problem over at maddox games, how can Oleg have a standpoint other than "PC on your end has problem. None in 4.02 causing wobble"

I'm not trying to belittle it, I'm just saying that short of having your PC shipped to Oleg so he can see your particular issues, how could he possibly say what the problem is?

I also start to wonder: has some clever jerk managed to hack an online server and given folks who fly online a virus or some type of program that messes with your stick reactions in-game? I see more and more that folks who play online have this issue. It seems a common issue with online flyers. is it possible to write a routine that randomises stick inputs slightly? I don't think it would necessarily be an FB issue; it would just be how windows presents the info to FB, and maybe even FB only. I don't think it's impossible to do this

neural_dream
11-03-2005, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I see more and more that folks who play online have this issue. It seems a common issue with online flyers. is it possible to write a routine that randomises stick inputs slightly? I don't think it would necessarily be an FB issue; it would just be how windows presents the info to FB, and maybe even FB only. I don't think it's impossible to do this
No no. That's not the case. I didn't have the chance to fly 4.02 online yet. I saw the wobbly patch as an opportunity to fly offline campaigns http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif.

Chuck_Older
11-03-2005, 03:54 PM
I don't understand

You haven't flown 4.02 online yet, but you do have wobble offline, is that it?

neural_dream
11-03-2005, 04:45 PM
Yup.

msalama
11-04-2005, 12:32 AM
Hey all, try another JS driver if at all possible! Solved the wobble issue for me...

partic_3
11-04-2005, 02:28 AM
Look, I had a pretty bad wobble problem before the patch but it certainly didn't help.
What I do is just keep my shirt on as much as possible, then the wobble isn't so obvious.
I'd love a patch that would fix it and if anyone could do it, it would be Oleg, but, well, I'm not holding my breath...
just holding the gut in!

lowfighter
11-04-2005, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lowfighter:
Chuck you might be right, however Oleg and co. could considerably help us by just stating it's position in this issue, after all it's not one or two users who have the problem.
Cheers!

Oh, I know lots of people have the problem. I think Oleg's standpoint would be "Patch 4.02 has no errors of this kind. Check PC for problem on your end". I think the real trick will be diagnosing the problem- if a good, 'clean' install shows nothing of this sort of problem over at maddox games, how can Oleg have a standpoint other than "PC on your end has problem. None in 4.02 causing wobble"

I'm not trying to belittle it, I'm just saying that short of having your PC shipped to Oleg so he can see your particular issues, how could he possibly say what the problem is?

I also start to wonder: has some clever jerk managed to hack an online server and given folks who fly online a virus or some type of program that messes with your stick reactions in-game? I see more and more that folks who play online have this issue. It seems a common issue with online flyers. is it possible to write a routine that randomises stick inputs slightly? I don't think it would necessarily be an FB issue; it would just be how windows presents the info to FB, and maybe even FB only. I don't think it's impossible to do this </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chuck,when patch came out because of that stupid mixing of the filenames on the download site I had quite weird behaviour of the game so I uninstalled (and deleted all remaining files), reinstalled PF and added the patches. I didn't play online. The wobbling is there but not with all planes, planes like zero and ki84, are quite stable, p51 is relatively ok,p47 is a bit worse corsair is hard to handle though.
Reading this threads it looks like sometimes changing joystick settings can cure the problem, one strange idea heard recently is that toning down the stick settings makes thing worse, it's kind of counterintuitive but I'll give a try to sensitive settings.

Maraz_5SA
11-04-2005, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I'm still baffled that a portion of the community experiences no wobble...but yet it is insisted to be a problem with the patch

Doesn't logic kind of say that if some folks d/l'd 4.02 and have no wobble, but others have it, then those with the wobble are experiencing a problem?


Chuck,
what people call "wobble" is the gyro effect: when you input a pitch change the aircraft yaws and oscillates in yaw, when you input a yaw change the aircraft pitches and oscillates in pitch.

The gyro effect is reported in 4.02 readme so is not a dream of someone or a corrupt install. I don't believe someone is not experiencing it, unless he's flying only a particular aircraft that is immune from it (of course some MUST be immune like Me.262, Me.163, P-38....).

So the question about which Maddox Games might react is: is it normal that an aircraft with stabilizer surfaces, at high speed (like a Bf.109 or a P.47 in a shallow dive, for instance) experience such a heavy gyro effect like that is now implemented?

IMHO gyro effect shoud be important at low speed but much smaller at high speed where the air flow along fin and tailplanes should make the aircraft much steadier. Remember that the propeller rotates about the same RPM at high and low speed so the amount of angular moment is the same but the effect of stabilizer surfaces is greater at high speed.

Maraz

triggerhappyfin
11-04-2005, 05:12 AM
Correct me if I´m wrong..but TRIMMING is essential.

ElAurens
11-04-2005, 05:34 AM
You old timers, like me, remember the first time you took off in a Mig3 in the original IL2?

Well?


4.02 is no worse than that.

I don't understand all this gnashing of teeth over 4.02.

Kwiatos
11-04-2005, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by Maraz_5SA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I'm still baffled that a portion of the community experiences no wobble...but yet it is insisted to be a problem with the patch

Doesn't logic kind of say that if some folks d/l'd 4.02 and have no wobble, but others have it, then those with the wobble are experiencing a problem?


Chuck,
what people call "wobble" is the gyro effect: when you input a pitch change the aircraft yaws and oscillates in yaw, when you input a yaw change the aircraft pitches and oscillates in pitch.

The gyro effect is reported in 4.02 readme so is not a dream of someone or a corrupt install. I don't believe someone is not experiencing it, unless he's flying only a particular aircraft that is immune from it (of course some MUST be immune like Me.262, Me.163, P-38....).

So the question about which Maddox Games might react is: is it normal that an aircraft with stabilizer surfaces, at high speed (like a Bf.109 or a P.47 in a shallow dive, for instance) experience such a heavy gyro effect like that is now implemented?

IMHO gyro effect shoud be important at low speed but much smaller at high speed where the air flow along fin and tailplanes should make the aircraft much steadier. Remember that the propeller rotates about the same RPM at high and low speed so the amount of angular moment is the same but the effect of stabilizer surfaces is greater at high speed.

Maraz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point Maraz. "Wobble" came with 4.02 and for me it is obviously. It simple to check - get file files.sfs from other previously patch and "wobble" are gone. Back to 4.02 files.sfs version and "wobble" back. I dont belive in many bs here like reinstaling, defragmentation, new config etc make "wobble" nonexist. It is silly.

4.02 cause that many planes behave like hanging on gums and spinging their noses while manouvering. For me its uncorrect and need to be fixed.

Chuck_Older
11-04-2005, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Maraz_5SA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I'm still baffled that a portion of the community experiences no wobble...but yet it is insisted to be a problem with the patch

Doesn't logic kind of say that if some folks d/l'd 4.02 and have no wobble, but others have it, then those with the wobble are experiencing a problem?


Chuck,
what people call "wobble" is the gyro effect: when you input a pitch change the aircraft yaws and oscillates in yaw, when you input a yaw change the aircraft pitches and oscillates in pitch.

The gyro effect is reported in 4.02 readme so is not a dream of someone or a corrupt install. I don't believe someone is not experiencing it, unless he's flying only a particular aircraft that is immune from it (of course some MUST be immune like Me.262, Me.163, P-38....).

So the question about which Maddox Games might react is: is it normal that an aircraft with stabilizer surfaces, at high speed (like a Bf.109 or a P.47 in a shallow dive, for instance) experience such a heavy gyro effect like that is now implemented?

IMHO gyro effect shoud be important at low speed but much smaller at high speed where the air flow along fin and tailplanes should make the aircraft much steadier. Remember that the propeller rotates about the same RPM at high and low speed so the amount of angular moment is the same but the effect of stabilizer surfaces is greater at high speed.

Maraz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But...I have this gyro effect. And I use a rocker rudder, which everyone claims is so awful

It's not an issue at all for me. I use the rudder to turn, I co-ordinate turns, and I ese off the rudder if I've been on it


Is this "over-center" issue where the nose swings back past the no-yaw point after rudder input is cancelled what people are calling "wobble"?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

If so, um, gotta say that this is a pilot input problem after all

crazyivan1970
11-04-2005, 10:10 AM
One more wobbling post and i am going to shoot myself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
11-04-2005, 10:22 AM
As usual with Maddox/1C, a lack of communication has fanned the flames of an issue.

A sticky from the developer describing new effects with the flight model, how it manifest itselfs, why it may affect certain aircraft more than others and simple ways to check their install being correct/check their stick settings would have sufficed.

Instead, as usual, they'd prefer to have a shedload of confusion and speculation abound!

Nothing changes, eh?

Ta,
Norris

crazyivan1970
11-04-2005, 11:15 AM
Oleg is sick

LilHorse
11-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
One more wobbling post and i am going to shoot myself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Or puke. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Well, look what I started. I was just wondering.

Chuck speculates on what Oleg might say but as yet we haven't heard from him. Even if it is to say that the problem isn't on his end.

At any rate, I tried the F4U-1C last night offline. And at first it was very twitchy but after adjusting my axis settings (they were all at 100)it seemed to be more stable. Also, I use rudder pedals and it seems ppl have more problems with twisties or rocker switches. So, I can't say whether I have this horrible "wobble" or not, having never flown a real warbird. All I know is when I kick rudder one way or the other and release, it swings back and forth a few times but then stablizes. If that doesn't sound like the "wobble" then I don't have it.

NorrisMcWhirter
11-04-2005, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Oleg is sick

Wasn't someone sick last time the **** hit the fan?

Best wishes on a speedy recovery to Oleg.

Ta,
Norris

crazyivan1970
11-04-2005, 11:50 AM
People get sick all the time Norris... and **** hits the fan all the time too... no big Coincidence here

Airmail109
11-04-2005, 01:04 PM
Purge the Wobblewhiners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

LEBillfish
11-04-2005, 01:30 PM
Now stop all this or I break out the "Big Guns"........

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Island Oleg</span>

fraidycat1
11-04-2005, 02:05 PM
jds1978, Thanx! ive been trying to remember his name for a long time! that was cool

Archangel2980
11-04-2005, 02:08 PM
Speaking of sh*t it's about that time... I drop the lethal payload. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif