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NLxAROSA
04-18-2019, 09:33 PM
Just recalibrated a piece of gear. In the regular version of the game the stat was capped. But on the PTS I can go a lot higher and not only that, but it only gives me +48. So that implies I can go even higher. Looks like recalibration is more powerful now? Needs more testing though.

iSayBoourns
04-18-2019, 10:24 PM
Yes, recalibration is stronger now. You can get stats a lot higher than you previously could. This is getting overlooked by all the crying about talents.

xcel30
04-18-2019, 10:57 PM
Apparently the cap has been removed, and i heard that you can reroll for any stat including ones that are already on the item, but haven't gotten to checking that one out

Joonnnyy
04-18-2019, 11:12 PM
from my limited small looks, you can increase the stats by about 6x the amount compared to befor, which in some cases makes you unable to reach the cap because you still need an item with high enough amount of stats to transfer
so increaseing a max roll will be impossible, as you wont get anything higher, but if you have a very low roll and want to improve it it will go so much higher its almost rediculous
the 3k health, 5% weapon type dmg glove? seemed useless 2 days ago but can roll close to max weapondmg on pts, so its 3k health for almost free which also get better due to less incoming dmg

but i have not seen that you can change the color of the attribute, eg armor->critchance or doublicats

randmanqq
04-18-2019, 11:27 PM
I actually haven't even thought about whether you would be able to swap the colored attributes or not in the PTS now, and that was one of the biggest annoyances of the re-calibration station I've had since launch

NLxAROSA
04-19-2019, 08:20 AM
Can't swap colered attributes.

I've been experimenting a bit with a yellow build based around a few of the following talents: Spike, Tech Support, Terminate, Skilled and On The Ropes. I tried Rooted as well but that one is a bit unreliable IMO. Assault turret is a very useful asset now, esp. when playing solo CP4. I remember pre-patch on regular it hit for 2k-ish. Goes easily over 10k now. Just keep dropping armor to get the buff, let the turret do the final kill for another. Very fun to play.

Now that individual attributes can go higher, you need to sacrifice less red/blue stats to get some skill power to unlock mods. Though with the right talents, it's not even really needed to unlock those.

Not saying skill-based builds are a 1:1 alternative for a red build, but certainly getting there.

youngManiac_
04-19-2019, 09:57 AM
Can't swap colered attributes.

I've been experimenting a bit with a yellow build based around a few of the following talents: Spike, Tech Support, Terminate, Skilled and On The Ropes. I tried Rooted as well but that one is a bit unreliable IMO. Assault turret is a very useful asset now, esp. when playing solo CP4. I remember pre-patch on regular it hit for 2k-ish. Goes easily over 10k now. Just keep dropping armor to get the buff, let the turret do the final kill for another. Very fun to play.

Now that individual attributes can go higher, you need to sacrifice less red/blue stats to get some skill power to unlock mods. Though with the right talents, it's not even really needed to unlock those.

Not saying skill-based builds are a 1:1 alternative for a red build, but certainly getting there.


could u provide me with a bit more insight on the turret damage?

does it scale with elite damage?

does it scale with weapon damage?

what mods are u using with turret?

im a huge turret lover for pve and if u could provide me these informations id be immensly grateful.

edit : for work reasons i cannot try the pts unfortunately, else i would have tested this myself

NLxAROSA
04-19-2019, 10:05 AM
Can't answer these just yet (because work), but quite happy to test a few of those things out tonight.

youngManiac_
04-19-2019, 10:17 AM
Can't answer these just yet (because work), but quite happy to test a few of those things out tonight.

thanks a lot.

youngManiac_
04-19-2019, 02:03 PM
a friend just tested on live and the weapon turret does not change with weapon damage on gear.

hitting veterans and reds for 6190

now, after seeing the damage he did not even try to test the elite damage because its irrelevant if it still hits reds and purples for that low amount.

if this turret dmg is the same on pts, even on 10k, how could u say its doable to do control points lvl 4?

pls come back to me after your testing and lets compare a few datas, im not giving up the game yet i refuse to believe they want the skill power build to be this ****ing ****

i ****ing refuse to believe it.

waiting for some more of your datas

NLxAROSA
04-19-2019, 02:59 PM
Still at work, but my turret DMG out of the box with a few mods and around 1500 SP is 7500. With the buffs from talents (e.g. Terminate, Spike, etc.) this exceeds 10k (though not constant of course). And that's without stacking talents on top of each other (which is possible). With regards to CP4, I was able to solo Solar Farm and while it took a while, it was quite doable. It looks like civilians got a buff too because they're no longer dying instantly.

RNG has not allowed me to create my ideal build just yet, but hoping to get that done this weekend, if RNGesus is on my side of course. ;)

Kalimwulf
04-19-2019, 04:35 PM
could u provide me with a bit more insight on the turret damage?

does it scale with elite damage?

does it scale with weapon damage?

what mods are u using with turret?

im a huge turret lover for pve and if u could provide me these informations id be immensly grateful.

edit : for work reasons i cannot try the pts unfortunately, else i would have tested this myself
What the devs have said is that the damage does scale, but you don't see it unless you go all in.

x6 Destructive + Tech Support will give you an excellent bolshevik muppet, x5 Destructive + Tech Support + Calculated means your cool downs are a lot lower once you start killing Reds. Both those work in Challenge really well. It strips the armor off of purples and starts doing the same to Yellows. But it really is all in. You have to have +SP and + Cool down on all your gear. You must have Utility slots. The biggest issue is that you end up with an absolute mishmash of gear and can't take full advantage of any one brandset.

I was really hoping they would give us the ability to change 1 colored attribute to make life a little easier.

The healer build works really well, even on a team - Challenge only, but I'm not sure if it is worth the lack of DPS. We did a Challenge bounty on live yesterday and I was in full combat medic roll, but ...

youngManiac_
04-19-2019, 05:20 PM
What the devs have said is that the damage does scale, but you don't see it unless you go all in.




You have to have +SP and + Cool down on all your gear.


i dont see how cooldown reduction has anything to do with the base damage of the turret whitch is what i was referring to, and i said that if they went from 6k to 10k thats a very poor damage buff and will contribute nothing to the turret build.

and no, we tested with zero weapon damage, 5% weapon damage and up to 35% weapon damage, and it DOES NOT scale with the turret damage.

so no, going all in with skill power is completely useless, since u need just the right amount to unlock the turret mods that u want.

my m60 scuffed build with close to zero effort, hits mobs for about 90k headshots, if my turret does 10k per hit, its pathetic, there is zero reason to use skill if they dont buff the base damage by a lot.

and the fact that it doesnt scale with weapon damage and neither with skill power, makes it even worse.

provide me some good data of the pts with real numbers and modifier used (ex:skill mods, talents)

Kalimwulf
04-19-2019, 05:44 PM
i dont see how cooldown reduction has anything to do with the base damage of the turret whitch is what i was referring to, and i said that if they went from 6k to 10k thats a very poor damage buff and will contribute nothing to the turret build.

and no, we tested with zero weapon damage, 5% weapon damage and up to 35% weapon damage, and it DOES NOT scale with the turret damage.

so no, going all in with skill power is completely useless, since u need just the right amount to unlock the turret mods that u want.

my m60 scuffed build with close to zero effort, hits mobs for about 90k headshots, if my turret does 10k per hit, its pathetic, there is zero reason to use skill if they dont buff the base damage by a lot.

and the fact that it doesnt scale with weapon damage and neither with skill power, makes it even worse.

provide me some good data of the pts with real numbers and modifier used (ex:skill mods, talents)
Cool down reduction has nothing to do with Turret, unless of course it was destroyed and you need to bring it back. Cool down reduction does come into play when using seekers or drones.

You are looking at this from just your perspective. Skills don't have to scale like weapon damage does. It just has to scale in some attainable manner to be able to damage Heroic mobs.

For healing, using the +20% skill duration talent makes the chem launcher healing event longer - think of a Heal Over Time. It make the the Heal Drone last longer, etc. It also makes the Turret last longer, though dpending on the specific turret you might be better off with +Ammo.

Tech Support raises Skill damage by +25% when a skill kill happens for X seconds. - So once the seeker kills the first Red - boom boom.

Terminate Depleting an enemies armor grants +35% skill damage for 15s. Re throw your turret after the seek has nibbled on purples and yellow.

We do have options that you seem to be over looking.

Oh, and +SP allows you to use Mods that directly affects the damage that you do and how often you can do it.

Kalimwulf
04-19-2019, 06:21 PM
Still at work, but my turret DMG out of the box with a few mods and around 1500 SP is 7500. With the buffs from talents (e.g. Terminate, Spike, etc.) this exceeds 10k (though not constant of course). And that's without stacking talents on top of each other (which is possible). With regards to CP4, I was able to solo Solar Farm and while it took a while, it was quite doable. It looks like civilians got a buff too because they're no longer dying instantly.

RNG has not allowed me to create my ideal build just yet, but hoping to get that done this weekend, if RNGesus is on my side of course. ;)

Have you looked at Rooted While equipped and in cover, all skill damage and healing are increased by +25% for 10s. Buff is lost when exiting cover. Can occur once every 25s.?

I use it, but from my perspective getting into and out of cover every 25s just doesn't happen.

Savi0ur_
04-19-2019, 06:24 PM
Youre right cooldown reduction isnt that important for the turret except as you said if its destroyed and you want to keep the damage / suppresion up to not get rushed an trashed by mobs.

Of course skills have to scale in a way similar to weapon damage. How would you otherwise be able to kill any type of mob with your turret? One of my build features 121% elite damage which will make my turret hit for aroudn 13k on elites. in my opinion thats way to low. i would be faster killing them with the first AR gained starting a new char. If i take all the talents you mentioned into account the 13k will end up around 16.2k with tech suppport and around 20k with tech support and the other talent you mentioned.Keep in mind that mobs hide from the turret and you dont get that many hit on them. Even without a lot of weapon dmg my pistol hits for more.

To get these buffs my skills would first need to deplete an armor or kill an enemy which honestly wont happen as long as the hit reds and purples for only 6k. Having higher dmg on elites isnt helping as well since they have higher armor and health.

Skill power isnt worth anything when it comes to the turret or the seekers. Not going for any weapon dmg or crit just to reach 2700 skillpower to be able to put the high dmg mods to my skills wont help either since they only gett buffed by what 40% in total (6k + 40% = 8.4k... thats still like petting any mob). Curretnly all skills besides healing chemlauncher and deflecter drone (only for pvp) are basicly useless.

Dont get me started on the seeker and the low dmg outpout they have even if you fully buff your build and ramp up your explosive dmg.

Another example try to take your deflector shield and stay infront of a red mob in normal difficulity. You will realize that you do barely no dmg to him while he can take out you shield within seconds. Eventhough you fully modded your shiled with health and regen.

As long as they dont improve skills by adding a dmg / health modifier such as in division 1 (sp = dmg or health) you wont be able to make a proper skill build. Currently they force us to make builds relying on yellow talents which they are planing todump down now...

Kalimwulf
04-19-2019, 06:52 PM
I don't use Auto Turret specifically because I can't find a way to make it worth while in Challenging and I've stayed the hell away from the Shield.

I am in no way saying the devs don't have work they should think about doing.

All I'm saying is that we can make certain thing work as long as go all in. I'm serious about what you can do with
x6 Destructive and Tech Support.

What the devs have tried to do is make the skill build much more human interactive. It does need work, but you need to keep that in mind. It about coupling together a build that highlights the two skills. Like what NLxAROSA did. Seeker and Artillery Turret, Destructive and Tech Support.

NLxAROSA
04-19-2019, 08:49 PM
could u provide me with a bit more insight on the turret damage?

does it scale with elite damage?

does it scale with weapon damage?

what mods are u using with turret?

im a huge turret lover for pve and if u could provide me these informations id be immensly grateful.

edit : for work reasons i cannot try the pts unfortunately, else i would have tested this myself
Did some testing. DTE or Hard Hitting does not impact the turret as far as I can tell. The only thing that impacts turret damage is specific talents and of course turret mods with +damage.

Turret mods: +14% damage, +7.2% damage and +4.7% duration (for a total of 7512 damage). With a stack of Spike and Terminate my turret hits for 11393k per shot. Funny thing: these numbers don't add up. If I divide 11393k by 1.35 and again by 1.35 I end up with 6251. Which is close to the base damage of the turret, but not exactly. So I'm not quite sure what's going on here.


Have you looked at Rooted While equipped and in cover, all skill damage and healing are increased by +25% for 10s. Buff is lost when exiting cover. Can occur once every 25s.?

I use it, but from my perspective getting into and out of cover every 25s just doesn't happen.
I have Rooted, but I think it's not so reliable. For me it's not triggering every 25s if I stay in the same cover. But even when switching cover it doesn't always trigger. I suspect there's a longer cooldown, but hard to say without being a dev.




To get these buffs my skills would first need to deplete an armor or kill an enemy which honestly wont happen as long as the hit reds and purples for only 6k. Having higher dmg on elites isnt helping as well since they have higher armor and health.You don't need to use your skill to reduce armor or make a headshot kill, you can use a weapon for that. It's quite easy to get a stack of buffs up, esp. in group content when there's lots of enemies. I used Spike + Terminate + Skilled. Still looking for a piece with On The Ropes. With both Spike and Terminate up my turret hits for 11393.

DPS is a bit contextual though. This build is most effective in a target-rich environment with armored enemies. And it still needs a bit more buff to be really competitive. But it's a good start. I'm having a lot of fun with this build.

youngManiac_
04-21-2019, 02:32 PM
i went into some deep skill power testing on live and, to add up the skill hitting as hard as a wet noodle, the cooldown is just outright garbage, starts the cooldown when the skill ends, so u place your turret, throw seeker mine, and once they both in cooldown, u are there wathing your loooooooooooooong skill cooldown it feels sooooo UNFUN AND NOT ENJOYABLE...... i dont know what to say anymore.

I dont know how u having fun using a build like that


Dont come back and tell me im using the wrong skills, wrong pieces because ive tryed everything, skill haste isnt going to make it worth, because if u spec in skill haste u cannot have enough skill power for the powerful mods (almost 3k for the powerful ones)

ive tryed every single skill talent and skill ability, its just not worth using them , my unoptimized gun with unoptimized shooter build with non shooter talent still does more damage than my skills, its litterally a waste of time to sit and use the skills when u can just shoot your weapon and do more! simple!

the seeker with max explosion still hits like nothing even with procs up........................ how could u possibly say its fun!!!!!!!!!! how!!!!!!!!!! what makes it fun for you? the abnormal cooldown? or the laughable damage? maybe you are having fun at seeing how poor designed that is?

still waiting for some words on the future skill power changes because, some simple mods buffs wont resolve any issue what so ever.

i want to repeat my self on the fact that playing skill power abilities is NOT FUN AT ALL, AN UNFUN EXPERIENCE ALLTOGETHER

NLxAROSA
04-21-2019, 08:37 PM
1. Skill DPS is not up to par with weapon DPS, been mentioned a couple of times already. Skill has not been addressed in this update at all, except a few talent buffs. Again, this should be no surprise.
2. Turret's main use for me is CC. Seekers to drive enemies out of cover, or kill multiple already weakened enemies at the same time (and reset cooldowns).
3. I use Spike/Terminate/Skilled and still looking for a piece with 'On the ropes to boost DPS when skills are on cooldown'.
4. Cooldown on my turret is 30s and on my seekers it's 20s. But most of the time it's reset early by Skilled.
5. The fun I have in this game has nothing to do with how easy it is to put down enemies.
6. Using lots of exclamation marks, bold and large fonts and all caps does not drive a point across, it just makes you look like a five year old.

calm.eagle
04-21-2019, 09:29 PM
On current live server, I use seeker mines (multiple) first as a better form of "pulse" because it immediately IDs targets, and second as a way to soften up those targets. I don't ever expect the seeker mines to kill anything. I've used them this way from day 1, mostly as a solo player, and found it fun.

youngManiac_
04-22-2019, 04:16 PM
1. Skill DPS is not up to par with weapon DPS, been mentioned a couple of times already. Skill has not been addressed in this update at all, except a few talent buffs. Again, this should be no surprise.
2. Turret's main use for me is CC. Seekers to drive enemies out of cover, or kill multiple already weakened enemies at the same time (and reset cooldowns).
3. I use Spike/Terminate/Skilled and still looking for a piece with 'On the ropes to boost DPS when skills are on cooldown'.
4. Cooldown on my turret is 30s and on my seekers it's 20s. But most of the time it's reset early by Skilled.
5. The fun I have in this game has nothing to do with how easy it is to put down enemies.
6. Using lots of exclamation marks, bold and large fonts and all caps does not drive a point across, it just makes you look like a five year old.


at this point i dont care if i look like a 5 year old, me and loads of other skill power players, think exactly like me, and im tired of people like you saying that skills are viable and they have no clue what they are talking about, skills arent supposed to be only used for ''cc'' like u are right now, skills are ment to do damage if u spec all in for it, just like guns.

i have spent more than 100 euros for something that i have been lied on, allow me to be ****ing upset if the game not even a month in goes into emergency manteinance with PTS and the mods in the forum talking about how good melee shotgun damage is like what the hell?

just because the majority of people dont even bother to come in here and just leave the game, doesnt mean im wrong.

i may look like a 5 year old, but at least i do speak my soul out and that is only because i always cared about this game and supported it.

talking to me with that condescending tone doesnt give u a place in the moderators room mate, u are just as pathetic as the others defending skill power at the moment, the situation is dire at the moment, the game is quickly disappearing from the radar of everyone and im here complaining in the pts forum because i got nothing to do other than doing this, this is the last straw, when u dont see anymore here it means i am completely gone off the game.

do u think that for an AAA game like this, where they earned MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, is it ok to be in such a state?

no, i dont think so, so yea, i look like a 5 year old? who cares, at least im trying to repair this game with all my heart.

Kalimwulf
04-23-2019, 08:51 PM
at this point i dont care if i look like a 5 year old, me and loads of other skill power players, think exactly like me, and im tired of people like you saying that skills are viable and they have no clue what they are talking about, skills arent supposed to be only used for ''cc'' like u are right now, skills are ment to do damage if u spec all in for it, just like guns.

i have spent more than 100 euros for something that i have been lied on, allow me to be ****ing upset if the game not even a month in goes into emergency manteinance with PTS and the mods in the forum talking about how good melee shotgun damage is like what the hell?

just because the majority of people dont even bother to come in here and just leave the game, doesnt mean im wrong.

i may look like a 5 year old, but at least i do speak my soul out and that is only because i always cared about this game and supported it.

talking to me with that condescending tone doesnt give u a place in the moderators room mate, u are just as pathetic as the others defending skill power at the moment, the situation is dire at the moment, the game is quickly disappearing from the radar of everyone and im here complaining in the pts forum because i got nothing to do other than doing this, this is the last straw, when u dont see anymore here it means i am completely gone off the game.

do u think that for an AAA game like this, where they earned MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, is it ok to be in such a state?

no, i dont think so, so yea, i look like a 5 year old? who cares, at least im trying to repair this game with all my heart.
Investing into Destructive +20% Explosive Damage, +cool down, and +skill power using seekers and artillery drone buys you an old school tactician bomber

Investing into Capacitive +20% Skill Duration, +cool down, and +skill power using healing chem launcher, healing seekers or Hive Reviver as Suvivalist buys you a Healer build.

I've built versions of this on both Live and PTS. They both work.

So can you be more specific about what skills you would want the devs to make viable?

NLxAROSA
04-23-2019, 09:53 PM
Investing into Destructive +20% Explosive Damage, +cool down, and +skill power using seekers and artillery drone buys you an old school tactician bomber

Investing into Capacitive +20% Skill Duration, +cool down, and +skill power using healing chem launcher, healing seekers or Hive Reviver as Suvivalist buys you a Healer build.

Good stuff, will try these out. Always loved my Classified Tactician and Classified Reclaimer builds in TD1, even though they sucked in DPS compared to a Classified Striker. A lot of fun to play.

Kalimwulf
04-23-2019, 10:36 PM
Good stuff, will try these out. Always loved my Classified Tactician and Classified Reclaimer builds in TD1, even though they sucked in DPS compared to a Classified Striker. A lot of fun to play.
The mad bomber is a lot of fun. You should look at Tech Support Kills by active skills grant +25% skill damage for 10s. I lost it on the builds I'm currently using on live and PTS, and I really miss it.

I'm using Calculated Kills from cover reduce skill cooldowns by 20%, as a way not to have to invest so heavily into +cool down, but that's no working. I don't know if the skill isn't procing or if it's just not as good as using the +cool down stuff.

I'm using x5 Destructive on CP3 on PTS. It kills Reds outright, strips armor from Purple and Yellows. I'm not 100% happy with the drone. It works 100% as an Alpha strike, but once the shooting starts the NPCs run when they see the drone flying in. I'm playing this solo, so that doesn't help much.

I'm also using On the Ropes Weapon damage is increased by +25% while all skills are on cooldown or reach zero charges, but darned if I know whether it's procing or not. Theoretically it would fit right in to give you a DPS boost.

Be aware that you can't heal yourself except armor kit using two Boom skills, but it is a literal blast to play.

AOD_Hyperion
04-25-2019, 10:18 AM
Investing into Destructive +20% Explosive Damage, +cool down, and +skill power using seekers and artillery drone buys you an old school tactician bomber

Investing into Capacitive +20% Skill Duration, +cool down, and +skill power using healing chem launcher, healing seekers or Hive Reviver as Suvivalist buys you a Healer build.



I have built into these builds as well. Using China Light for the extra explosives damage; 4x Destructive, 1x Skilled, 1x Calculated and 1x Hard Hitting (which I haven't managed to change yet.) Looking to try Tech Support and Payload when I get the opportunity.
Spec'd as much as I need to so my seekers have the max damage mods unlocked that I hold so far. It's a fun build but the real nerf is to the way cluster seekers work now.
They should rename them from Seeker Mines to Seeker "Where you Were and Not Where you Are" Mines.

NotNowNelson
04-25-2019, 10:57 AM
Any ideas where the material caches are? Can't make any of these builds to try out without any materials.

Kalimwulf
04-25-2019, 07:34 PM
I have built into these builds as well. Using China Light for the extra explosives damage; 4x Destructive, 1x Skilled, 1x Calculated and 1x Hard Hitting (which I haven't managed to change yet.) Looking to try Tech Support and Payload when I get the opportunity.
Spec'd as much as I need to so my seekers have the max damage mods unlocked that I hold so far. It's a fun build but the real nerf is to the way cluster seekers work now.
They should rename them from Seeker Mines to Seeker "Where you Were and Not Where you Are" Mines.
The two 'tracking' seekers aren't reliable with there pathing. It's obvious that this was intentional since they worked so well in TD1. Getting the Cluster to deploy where you want is a PITA and the AI has no issue running when it sees it coming. Same issue as the bombadier drone. Getting either of those to work right, and height differences just makes it worse, is usually just rewarded by being shot in the face or flanked.

Mister.Wong
04-25-2019, 07:38 PM
no clue, also waiting

Ubi-Lucipus
04-26-2019, 01:12 PM
A gentle reminder to refrain from derailing threads with insults or general negative attitude towards each other.