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XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:53 PM
The one thing that is missing from every air combat sim that I know of, is the 'shared kill', ie everyone who hits an enemy plane gets a partial credit for killing it (certain parameters would have to be met).

At present, it is possible for people to wait till they see a plane out of control, and on its way down, attack it, and 'steal' the kill from whoever actually shot it down. Not only is this unfair, but leads to accusations and hard feelings.

Is there any reason why the game can't award partial kills to pilots, based on # of hits or a ratio of hits?
For example, one guy gets 3 hits, another gets, 127 hits, the second guy should get the kill since he has overwhelming majority of hits. If first guy gets 30 hits, second guy 45 hits, then it would be shared equally, because the ratio is close.

Shared kills were a part of WWII combat, particularly in BoB, so this would be a nice thing to have.

S! Budanova

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:53 PM
The one thing that is missing from every air combat sim that I know of, is the 'shared kill', ie everyone who hits an enemy plane gets a partial credit for killing it (certain parameters would have to be met).

At present, it is possible for people to wait till they see a plane out of control, and on its way down, attack it, and 'steal' the kill from whoever actually shot it down. Not only is this unfair, but leads to accusations and hard feelings.

Is there any reason why the game can't award partial kills to pilots, based on # of hits or a ratio of hits?
For example, one guy gets 3 hits, another gets, 127 hits, the second guy should get the kill since he has overwhelming majority of hits. If first guy gets 30 hits, second guy 45 hits, then it would be shared equally, because the ratio is close.

Shared kills were a part of WWII combat, particularly in BoB, so this would be a nice thing to have.

S! Budanova

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:09 PM
One question: are you just hunting kills or enjoying the game?
I don't really care myself who gets the credit for a kill, I just want to have fun when playing. I don't look at the score and kills. I'm happy if I manage to cripple a plane and then someone else finishes it... doesn't matter, I still did my job and the plane was shot down by a teammate -> score for my TEAM.
Of course it would be nice to have shared kills, but is it necessary? Not in my opinion. I'm not saying it should not be implemented, I'm just saying that the kills aren't the only thing in the game.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:24 PM
He's right however that partial kills were awarded. Many WWII aces had scores like 12.5 kills. I remember in the Battle of Britain movie (it just illustrates the point superbly) that one of the pilots was awarded a 1/3rd of a kill.

Thing is that the game knows who fired the last shot. The annoying part online is when you've spent 10 minutes in a fight with a superb pilot, you finally down his plane and some guy flys in takes a single shot at it and gets all credit for the kill. Thats why partial kills would be good.

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XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 11:27 PM
How about this: As soon as you damage enough vital systems to cause the aircraft to go down [meaning no way to continue flying] It stops scoreing kills on him.

As well as technical kills maybe? EX: You shoot an aircrafts engine out, but he glides to a landing: Score one kill.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 12:03 AM
its annoying in single player when aircraft steal your kills /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
im multiplayer ive done it by acciedent but i apologise

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 12:37 AM
Jusas wrote:
- One question: are you just hunting kills or enjoying
- the game?
- I don't really care myself who gets the credit for a
- kill, I just want to have fun when playing. I don't
- look at the score and kills. I'm happy if I manage
- to cripple a plane and then someone else finishes
- it... doesn't matter, I still did my job and the
- plane was shot down by a teammate -> score for my
- TEAM.
- Of course it would be nice to have shared kills, but
- is it necessary? Not in my opinion. I'm not saying
- it should not be implemented, I'm just saying that
- the kills aren't the only thing in the game.
-
-

Well then, the question is: Should your selfishness affect other people?
Just because you are happy to play your job some people play this game to be on the top of the lists, and I'm sure their qutie a few aswell.
The topicmaker has a good point, what is called "fragstealing" in other games wouldn't be a to hard of a thing to implant in this game really

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XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 09:27 AM
VOL_Jon wrote:
- As well as technical kills maybe? EX: You shoot an
- aircrafts engine out, but he glides to a landing:
- Score one kill.

as far as i have seen, this is already in the game. you do not even have to damage the enemy critically and you will still get credit for a kill. it does, however, seem to have a time limit on it. so you might hit a guy and he'll land immediately and you get the little aircraft destroyed message on the right even though it says "playerX lands" in the chat. if you do the same amount of damage to the enemy but he does not immediately land, it seems to not count any kind of credit.

the whole points system is rather arbitrary and should be dropped for a kills/deaths system or a team-based system. i was hoping to see this in the patch, but it seems unlikely at this point.

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XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 02:26 PM
Budanova,
I think this feature should be added to the wishlist for the BOB sim!

because the Brithish RAF will play a major part in that sim did validate shared kills, as well as the later UK based USAAF.

On the Otherhand the Luftwaffe did not recognize shared kills, the Kill would go to the one who dealt the 'coup de grace' (Final blow to the victim) or the Pilot with the Highest rank would be granted the victory when it was not certain who dealt the final blow (wich frustrated a lot of lower rank pilots, Ofcourse!) The Incredebly succesfull JG 52 (Featuring, Hartmann, Rall, Graf etc.) might have been more fair as soon as the pilots where airborne would the one who spotted the enemy first be the leader of the pack. also the ones who had most skills would become the natural leader and could even be angry with superior oficers who had to forget what was been said during combat when the were back on the ground and the oficail ranks were valid again!

Don't look for fairplay to much tough History shows the real battles in the air and the validation of air kills where far from fair (Sharing a kill means very unsportif un gentleman like behavior since at least two planes killed a single adversary!)

Regards,
Kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 02:42 PM
the way this could be done in my opinion is through onlinewar reports like VOW or VEF i think the guys who programme these excellent auto reports could maybe alter the parameters in the logfile to allow shared kills.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 02:49 PM
Fighter Ace has shared kills, called assist. Whoever does the most damage to a plane gets the kill, anyone else who gets hits on it gets an assist. Kills and assist have different points depending on who and what you killed them in. If you have reached the rank of General and you down a rookie, then you get very little points but a rookie gets a lot of points if he downs you. Those are not all of the criteria that go into the equation, but it can get complicated at times. All scoring systems have their good and bad points.

Since I fly the jug, I probably damage 6 or 8 planes for every one that I down and get credit for. You know the scenario, B&Z a plane and as you extend and head back to hit their smoking plane, someone else drops on their wounded tail and smacks them down. I no longer worry about the points, I enjoy wounding them for teammates to have an easier time picking them off. That is why I like the team games so much more than the regular dogfights.

WYS
AB_Onedoc

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 03:47 PM
credit for damaged planes would be good in offline campaigns (mentioned in the detailed mission log), so you have e.g. Yak1b shot down, Mig3 damaged and would be nice to have credit for planes that you down but which don't explode.


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XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 08:48 PM
I would be happy with a system that gave a equal portion to all pilots involed . Thats how a local ww2 navy pilot explained how it worked to me it to me . He said that it didnt matter if you landed 100 shots or a maybe 1 or 2 it was no way to determan which had the most effect downing a plane so the navy gave all involed a equal share of the kill.

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