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View Full Version : If Massive wanted to lose as many players as possible, PTS changes are the way to go.



McKelan
04-17-2019, 03:25 PM
If these changes go live you will destroy any good will you have with the player base. And as we all know from the past 3 years, nerfs always go live. They destroy just about every single build players have farmed for in the last month.

The message you are sending is that we don't value your time at all. And if you do farm for whatever the new best build is after these nerfs, well, we will probably nerf that too. So really why would we ever continue to play if all the time we put in was for nothing.

This PTS is going to be a public relations nightmare and whoever approved this needs to have their judgement seriously questioned. And I didn't even discuss the insane requirements for the nerfed talents.

krfloll
04-17-2019, 03:32 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/be7qff/there_is_more_than_just_they_nerfing_all_dps_on/


I think we should wait until the NPC health changes hit the PTS before we light our torches and grab our pitchforks

Lyon-CZ
04-17-2019, 03:32 PM
Players found something, that is working. Nerf. Players found another working combination. Nerf. And again and again. But there is one positive thing - those nerfs, in the end, will make everything so useless, that there will be nothing to nerf. Mission accomplished..

Nazwyn
04-17-2019, 03:37 PM
They should try to make everything equally good, and not equally bad all the time..

RichardOshea
04-17-2019, 03:44 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/be7qff/there_is_more_than_just_they_nerfing_all_dps_on/


I think we should wait until the NPC health changes hit the PTS before we light our torches and grab our pitchforks

I have to agree. The best thing we can do is wait, test and reply. It's a little too premature to attack or defend any of this right now.

Diedel443
04-17-2019, 03:58 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/be7qff/there_is_more_than_just_they_nerfing_all_dps_on/


I think we should wait until the NPC health changes hit the PTS before we light our torches and grab our pitchforks

Ok, so let's say this is "part one". Where is the notes and confirmation that this is the case, because testing half a patch is a waste of time. Question 2: When is this going live ? I can't imagine it not going live with the raid, a major balance patch in teh middle of the raid would be stupid, but that leaves ONE week for any additional balance, testing, feedback, changes, approval, rollout, during the eastern week. That honestly does not sound in any way realistic.

Hmm, did i hear "raid next month" right ?

I am not sure they are moving in the right direction at all, but they might have a bit more time.

Syncope-83
04-17-2019, 04:02 PM
Ok, so let's say this is "part one". Where is the notes and confirmation that this is the case, because testing half a patch is a waste of time. Question 2: When is this going live ? I can't imagine it not going live with the raid, a major balance patch in teh middle of the raid would be stupid, but that leaves ONE week for any additional balance, testing, feedback, changes, approval, rollout, during the eastern week. That honestly does not sound in any way realistic.

Next content update has been delayed so they can do their best by all of us to get it right.

https://tomclancy-thedivision.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-updates/348203/the-division-2-development-update-title-update-3

Comatoaste
04-17-2019, 04:13 PM
I have to agree. The best thing we can do is wait, test and reply. It's a little too premature to attack or defend any of this right now.

It's not premature because this is the same team that caused this exact problem in the first game... only difference is they are sinking this ship so much faster.... this game was suppose to be built from the ground up and yet most bugs from d1 are in d2. The coding and programming is the same mess. Constant nerfs instead of buffs even after they said they wouldn't nerf anymore only buff. The way they do business you would think they are running for president

Comatoaste
04-17-2019, 04:18 PM
Ok, so let's say this is "part one". Where is the notes and confirmation that this is the case, because testing half a patch is a waste of time. Question 2: When is this going live ? I can't imagine it not going live with the raid, a major balance patch in teh middle of the raid would be stupid, but that leaves ONE week for any additional balance, testing, feedback, changes, approval, rollout, during the eastern week. That honestly does not sound in any way realistic.

Hmm, did i hear "raid next month" right ?

I am not sure they are moving in the right direction at all, but they might have a bit more time.

Why wouldn't this go live with the raid? They made a major change and gutted skill power builds for the release of world tier 5

Nightfall--
04-17-2019, 04:33 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/be7qff/there_is_more_than_just_they_nerfing_all_dps_on/


I think we should wait until the NPC health changes hit the PTS before we light our torches and grab our pitchforks

That's nice and all but my build now basically went down the drain with these changes. Tens of hours of endgame farming for what?

Diedel443
04-17-2019, 04:37 PM
And one of the biggest things is something you can't even see, the DZ only GS 515 will be as loved as the forced DZ gearing was in TD1.

RichardOshea
04-17-2019, 04:40 PM
It's not premature because this is the same team that caused this exact problem in the first game... only difference is they are sinking this ship so much faster.... this game was suppose to be built from the ground up and yet most bugs from d1 are in d2. The coding and programming is the same mess. Constant nerfs instead of buffs even after they said they wouldn't nerf anymore only buff. The way they do business you would think they are running for president

Entirely premised on the notion that we learn nothing from our experiences. Wrong. Engines have limitation, bugs that are hard to eradicate, issues that are hard to replicate and thereby repair etc etc. The game is a month old; all I can urge you to do is be patient and play the game for fun. If you cannot then I would urge you to find something else to do in the interim. That said, you payed for the game the same as anyone else and your opinion is as valuable as mine. But ask yourself how your current reaction is benefiting you as a player?

Don't get me wrong here, if you're unhappy then to a degree that also makes me unhappy. But perspective is needed right now and not emotional reactions.

DogBiscuit4U
04-17-2019, 04:40 PM
If these changes go live you will destroy any good will you have with the player base. And as we all know from the past 3 years, nerfs always go live. They destroy just about every single build players have farmed for in the last month.

The message you are sending is that we don't value your time at all. And if you do farm for whatever the new best build is after these nerfs, well, we will probably nerf that too. So really why would we ever continue to play if all the time we put in was for nothing.

This PTS is going to be a public relations nightmare and whoever approved this needs to have their judgement seriously questioned. And I didn't even discuss the insane requirements for the nerfed talents.

Which changes are your concern McKelan, are you just blanket stating all changes = bad? Because that's not really relevant feedback.

If you think you are going to log in to a looter game thats been up a month and truly believe that all your farming is going to have mattered next month, you have mislead yourself.

Morehei
04-17-2019, 04:41 PM
Ok, so let's say this is "part one". Where is the notes and confirmation that this is the case, because testing half a patch is a waste of time

About the confirmation, Thylander on twitter.
And yes, some context and notes with the PTS would have gone a long way.
https://twitter.com/Thylander/status/1118498641046642689

Diedel443
04-17-2019, 04:50 PM
About the confirmation, Thylander on twitter.
And yes, some context and notes with the PTS would have gone a long way.
https://twitter.com/Thylander/status/1118498641046642689

Meh, with teh best gear only being in DZ again i see no point in even trying. I might peek in once in a while to play, but so far the PTS patch is a total disaster. Even if they "fix" the NPCs, the insane requirements for the talents are killing it for me, this whole things doesn't feel balanced for a fun looter shooter in PvE at all. I can barely get any GS 500 stuff in the LZ, yet they hand out GS 5151 in the DZ :(

And that is only for challenging/heroic, yet everybody in PVE will be "balanced" that way.

DogBiscuit4U
04-17-2019, 04:52 PM
Meh, with teh best gear only being in DZ again i see no point in even trying. I might peek in once in a while to play, but so far the PTS patch is a total disaster. Even if they "fix" the NPCs, the insane requirements for the talents are killing it for me, this whole things doesn't feel balanced for a fun looter shooter in PvE at all. I can barely get any GS 500 stuff in the LZ, yet they hand out GS 5151 in the DZ :(

The "insane" requirements for talents are to make sure you actually stick to a build focused on red blue or yellow, I'm sorry if you wanted to run x blue x red and 0 yellow and use every top tier talent in the game, but that was only hurting the game not helping.

Jessilan
04-17-2019, 05:33 PM
The first chance you people get to cry and be the certain attention you take it. Grow up and learn to be patient. It's on PTS for a reason.

DrayloreX
04-17-2019, 06:11 PM
Next content update has been delayed so they can do their best by all of us to get it right.



i.e there are a lot of talents and things players enjoy that need to be nerfed so they need time :)

DogBiscuit4U
04-17-2019, 06:19 PM
i.e there are a lot of talents and things players enjoy that need to be nerfed so they need time :)

Yes, people enjoying the imbalance in talent builds while yelling for buffs to the stuff they are ignoring are going to have a lot of crying on the forums to do until then. Maybe when they relearn how to make a build in the new meta as opposed to the current meta that encouraged dps only because of poor scaling there will be less crying for the talents that were nerfed and more crying when they have to nerf the huge passive stats gains we've had from this part of the patch.

DrayloreX
04-17-2019, 06:40 PM
Yes, people enjoying the imbalance in talent builds while yelling for buffs to the stuff they are ignoring are going to have a lot of crying on the forums to do until then. Maybe when they relearn how to make a build in the new meta as opposed to the current meta that encouraged dps only because of poor scaling there will be less crying for the talents that were nerfed and more crying when they have to nerf the huge passive stats gains we've had from this part of the patch.

I sure as hell do not feel overpowered taking on CP4s or Heroic missions or not getting any special ammo for my specialization weapon.....nerfing the few talents synergy that gave me a fighting chance is not my idea of bringing balance to the game....unless of course by build diversity they mean...regardless of build you are equally screwed.

I see nothing in the changes on PTS that add build diversity in any meaningful way....just reducing the few that current "work" or at least are worth using.

Them constantly chasing and nerfing whatever the current meta builds might happen to be is a pointless never ending effort that just makes the game less and less popular.

NLxAROSA
04-17-2019, 09:29 PM
It's clear from the responses in here that very few (if even any) have actually played on the PTS. They may have nerfed some builds, but ALL builds are brought back up again by reduction of NPC health/armor. So no, not all builds are suddenly useless, it's quite the opposite. The reddit thread and the SOTG are not the complete picture. But you will only know that if you actually play the PTS...

DogBiscuit4U
04-17-2019, 11:23 PM
It's clear from the responses in here that very few (if even any) have actually played on the PTS. They may have nerfed some builds, but ALL builds are brought back up again by reduction of NPC health/armor. So no, not all builds are suddenly useless, it's quite the opposite. The reddit thread and the SOTG are not the complete picture. But you will only know that if you actually play the PTS...

Plus most of the stats you lose from talent nerfs can easily be recouped permanently on gear through recalibration instead of being stuck being a trigger... which should be a good thing for anyone with reading comprehension honestly.

MadBede
04-18-2019, 12:30 AM
The "insane" requirements for talents are to make sure you actually stick to a build focused on red blue or yellow, I'm sorry if you wanted to run x blue x red and 0 yellow and use every top tier talent in the game, but that was only hurting the game not helping.

100% true.

MaltedMilkhouse
04-18-2019, 03:25 AM
Complete incompetence once more from Ubi Massive. This game is already lacking any end game. The new changes are uninspired and insipid. The game will die off worse than the first one. I am getting a refund, no refunds? There is by breaking Australian Consumer Law. Terrible anti consumer company just doing what they have always done, and that is stroke their own egos and dismiss any opinions of the people who ultimately pay their wages.

Dwayne-Camacho
04-18-2019, 03:45 AM
It's clear from the responses in here that very few (if even any) have actually played on the PTS. They may have nerfed some builds, but ALL builds are brought back up again by reduction of NPC health/armor. So no, not all builds are suddenly useless, it's quite the opposite. The reddit thread and the SOTG are not the complete picture. But you will only know that if you actually play the PTS...

So instead of just buffing the things that were terrible, they are nerfing the stuff that wasn't, and then changing the only constant so that all existing feedback is essentially useless?

So now when people point out the horrible build diversity, they can simply deflect by saying they changed the mobs and they need months worth of feedback to tell them what they should already know. And the fanboys will parrot the same thing. (you are literally already doing it)

And FYI, skills are still complete garbage. They could quadruple the effects of offensive skills and they would STILL be garbage. You would know that if you actually play the PTS...

NLxAROSA
04-18-2019, 07:28 AM
Solo'd a level 4 CP yesterday without too much trouble. Not sure if the friendly NPCs got a buff, but they sure as hell didn't die as much as before.


So instead of just buffing the things that were terrible, they are nerfing the stuff that wasn't, and then changing the only constant so that all existing feedback is essentially useless?As explained above by multiple people: they're not doing that. I'm not going to repeat myself, please read again.


And FYI, skills are still complete garbage. They could quadruple the effects of offensive skills and they would STILL be garbage.The devs stated that skills would not be part of this particular update. So not sure why people would expect a change in this right now, unless (again) they didn't bother to read.

RDS80360
04-18-2019, 01:43 PM
Devs are trying to balance the game, give them a chance.. Players need to try to relax and adapt

xXPimpcanesXx
04-18-2019, 04:25 PM
So instead of just buffing the things that were terrible, they are nerfing the stuff that wasn't, and then changing the only constant so that all existing feedback is essentially useless?

So now when people point out the horrible build diversity, they can simply deflect by saying they changed the mobs and they need months worth of feedback to tell them what they should already know. And the fanboys will parrot the same thing. (you are literally already doing it)

And FYI, skills are still complete garbage. They could quadruple the effects of offensive skills and they would STILL be garbage. You would know that if you actually play the PTS...

THESE CHANGES AREN'T FINAL AND THE DEVS ARE REQUESTING OUR FEEDBACK. Stop acting like itís the apocalypse, most of these changes are actually good because being granted 100% weapon damage ( berserk ) and 200% critical hit damage ( strained ) while having no armor on top of critical hits heal you ( clutch ) while you troll your opponents is ****in broken AF. If youíre not happy with the changes then discuss why and post some potential changes youíd like to see. Armor / Health and enemy scaling hasnít been touched as of yet because this is phase 1 of the PTS. They actually did buff some weak talents if you bothered to read any of them in game, and some of the talents were actually busted which warranted the nerfs they received (see above). Some of the changes appear to be a bit extreme and these are the things Iíd like to see discussed here.

Kevbroseph
04-18-2019, 06:00 PM
It amazes me how people complain so much about balancing and claiming NERF about everything they love. I'd say sorry but I have no pity for people who stack up talents that break the game and expect it to stay around. People dropping 5 or more healing chems on the ground while zig zagging through the healing clouds with a CLUTCH-ON THE ROPES-BESERK build making it impossible to enter the dark zone or push an objective in Conflict.

These balances are necessary to make the game playable for many builds. There shouldn't be one or two Metas and that's all everyone uses. Games should be catered to everyones best interest. The players whining about balancing is breaking the game really need to stop and look. For those of us who play SIEGE, we well know that people cried about the Black Beard "NERF." Pretty sure a glass bullet proof shield on a rifle that can withstand over 100 rounds in a game where 1 of those bullets could have one tapped any operator in the game is the definition of broken.
If balancing and nerfs truely kill games, then SIEGE would have died years ago.

So play the game, the PTS, submit feedback and if changes are implemented that you feel are not necessary overall state your opinion and as a collective it will be taken into consideration. If your only interest is to protect a broken build then you really shouldn't be surprised if it's taken away. And if you have any forthought, when you're grinding for "10's of hours," collect items for potential future builds and be prepared to try new things. Don't be a sad 1 trick.

MeowNuts
04-20-2019, 04:44 PM
Devs are trying to balance the game, give them a chance.. Players need to try to relax and adapt

too many crybabies with knee-jerk reactions.

magicplayerno1
04-20-2019, 06:29 PM
It amazes me how people complain so much about balancing and claiming NERF about everything they love. I'd say sorry but I have no pity for people who stack up talents that break the game and expect it to stay around. People dropping 5 or more healing chems on the ground while zig zagging through the healing clouds with a CLUTCH-ON THE ROPES-BESERK build making it impossible to enter the dark zone or push an objective in Conflict.

These balances are necessary to make the game playable for many builds. There shouldn't be one or two Metas and that's all everyone uses. Games should be catered to everyones best interest. The players whining about balancing is breaking the game really need to stop and look. For those of us who play SIEGE, we well know that people cried about the Black Beard "NERF." Pretty sure a glass bullet proof shield on a rifle that can withstand over 100 rounds in a game where 1 of those bullets could have one tapped any operator in the game is the definition of broken.
If balancing and nerfs truely kill games, then SIEGE would have died years ago.

So play the game, the PTS, submit feedback and if changes are implemented that you feel are not necessary overall state your opinion and as a collective it will be taken into consideration. If your only interest is to protect a broken build then you really shouldn't be surprised if it's taken away. And if you have any forthought, when you're grinding for "10's of hours," collect items for potential future builds and be prepared to try new things. Don't be a sad 1 trick.

Except the build isnt broken? There are PVP LMG builds that melt even better than SMG builds. There are rifle and AR builds that melt in PVE better than SMG builds and are safer.

Xaunzor
04-23-2019, 08:15 AM
sooner or later, there will be nothing to nerf, because everything will be already nerfed :) Everything gonna be equal and useless, so there will not be any need for further grinding and motivation to play the game = end of the game :)

helios2791
04-24-2019, 05:16 PM
i like going into DZ to get the non contaminated gear and contaminated gear,if they drop the amount of the non contaminated gear that will be ********...i hope they dont.

Sty.x_
04-24-2019, 07:58 PM
Anyone else actually facing the problem that lvlin an alt is the only thing you can do on live server right now?
Because as i read the forum it seems as if the whole game is changing.
I stopped farming gear with my main because somewhere i read that they are going to buff the attributes with TU3. Didnt found anything here that this will also happen to gear thats allready in my. stash.(?)
I dont want to cry but i'm somehow sad that me and many players in my clan dont see any reason to play endgame right now on live server. And investing time on pts seems as a waste of time for me personally. Even if i appreciate those who are doing this and giving feedback to ubi.
sry for my broken english this is not my native language.

Kwoung
04-25-2019, 12:53 AM
Anyone else actually facing the problem that lvlin an alt is the only thing you can do on live server right now?
Because as i read the forum it seems as if the whole game is changing.
I stopped farming gear with my main because somewhere i read that they are going to buff the attributes with TU3. Didnt found anything here that this will also happen to gear thats allready in my. stash.(?)
I dont want to cry but i'm somehow sad that me and many players in my clan dont see any reason to play endgame right now on live server. And investing time on pts seems as a waste of time for me personally. Even if i appreciate those who are doing this and giving feedback to ubi.
sry for my broken english this is not my native language.

Totally agree, there is no reason to play live at the moment, when almost every decision you make make on what gear to keep or toss may be wrong. I am actually fairly excited about the changes on PTS, as most seem really good and will increase my enjoyment of the game. That said, if it is delayed and I stop playing long enough (talking days, not weeks) I will go play something else and not return. But of course, they already have my $100, so whats it matter?

Nepocrates
04-25-2019, 02:54 AM
I am not defending anything however can you give constructive criticism like what exactly you do not like.

To make it easier
Since there are many things you dislike in the PTS List you top 3 and why you dislike them, please be as specific as you can and try to avoid speaking on behalf of others just explain your experience or even the streamer you watched where you saw it.

Since there is general at least one change that is ok (note I did not say good or great) name 1 thing that is ok in this patch and why please be specific as possible.

Finally are these changes that bother you the mostly because you are mainly a PVEVP or the PVE or do both. What I am reading in your post is that you do not like nerf because you feel that you wasted your time. Also you still think the requirements for the adjusted talents still need to be looked at.

For me I am mainly a PVE player. I rarely go for the Flavor-of-the-Month Build and I have not spent much time on PTS. Of the time I spent there the NPC seemed rather easy to kill even on challenging. Thursday I am going into PVP with my less than optimized build to see how I fair. At tier 5 I expect you be wasted rather fast in the ODZ but I might stand a chance in Normalize however I really dont know yet.

TLDR; I really value opinions of players that may have a better understanding of the game than me so can the OP please elaborate and what exactly is wrong other than it all sucks.

Starbag.
04-25-2019, 08:50 AM
Spend time build up the most popular characters in your story, then kill them and call it drama. :D

Ehrlich-Colis
04-25-2019, 02:39 PM
If we bring everything up to the standard of the current meta and fun builds in the game, it would make everything flat.

If we bring all of these things and devalue everything you've worked for up to this point by making everything balanced down, you've still made everything flat.

Berserk Strained was high risk, high reward, build. Stacked health and low armor and intensely high dps. It was one of the most fun builds I've ever played, It made me aggressive and push for close quarter combat due to lack of critical range. It was unique and it felt powerful.

The logic behind nerfing these things so harshly rather than bringing other things up is strange because it sets a tone in the community that nothing you achieve in this game is meaningful, that it you find your power fantasy, if you find build that is anything better than just decent, it will be crushed. So why bother?

You can achieve balance without alienating me and devaluing the countless hours I've spent looking for the pieces of gear needed to make a build work.

A buff encourages people to try a new thing.
A nerf forces it.

Who do you want to be Massive?

AirJarhead
04-26-2019, 06:20 AM
I sure as hell do not feel overpowered taking on CP4s or Heroic missions or not getting any special ammo for my specialization weapon.....nerfing the few talents synergy that gave me a fighting chance is not my idea of bringing balance to the game....unless of course by build diversity they mean...regardless of build you are equally screwed.

I see nothing in the changes on PTS that add build diversity in any meaningful way....just reducing the few that current "work" or at least are worth using.

Them constantly chasing and nerfing whatever the current meta builds might happen to be is a pointless never ending effort that just makes the game less and less popular.

This is EXACTLY how I feel.

Ubi-Lucipus
04-26-2019, 11:05 AM
Phase 1 of our PTS is to focus solely on bug reporting, so any other balancing changes are of course subject to change :)

Tweaks and changes will be made based on the feedback that we receive from our community, please be as detailed and constructive as possible in your feedback.

That being said I am very keen to hear your thoughts on what has made some less than desirable changes to your build!

sprayNprayz
04-27-2019, 05:52 AM
Phase 1 of our PTS is to focus solely on bug reporting, so any other balancing changes are of course subject to change :)

Tweaks and changes will be made based on the feedback that we receive from our community, please be as detailed and constructive as possible in your feedback.

That being said I am very keen to hear your thoughts on what has made some less than desirable changes to your build!

Well you phase two changes have me considering walking and I was ok with sticking out phase 1. If you make us all have to refarm all this crap again because you introduce new stats, changed stat allocations, nerfed talents, buffed sets, it will trigger us. How completely off was your testing to require this significant of changes to every aspect of gear/talents/stats? You are redesigning the entire gear system shortly before a raid after people have poured hours into your RNG simulator dealing with crappy stash space and aggravating drop RNG. I'm typically a person who is in support of constructive criticism and support, but you have me at a loss. I just cant even.

FourthVariety
04-27-2019, 11:07 AM
Before PTS:
Players want the best build and to get it they have to drill down into all their gear slots, while desiring very specific rolls for each slot. No item will stick out from the crowd, it is a tedious accumulation of 5-10% here, 5-10% there moments that adds up over time, while streamers already get excited when something reads +25% damage, hyping players with builds that are unattainable because for normal players, timegating does exist.

After PTS:
Players want the best build and to get it they have to drill down into all their gear slots, while desiring very specific rolls for each slot. But now it is different items with different rolls. No item will stick out from the crowd, it is a tedious accumulation of 5-10% here, 5-10% there moments, while streamers already get excited when something reads +25% damage. But hey, at least the timegate goes away, or was the weapon nerfed? I no longer know.


I mean this in the most constructive way possible. But playing merry-go-around with a bunch of 10% boosts meant to stack atop of each other is only going to reset most players progress, which is not going to win any favors with these players. The core issue of The Division 2 once you start to build your character towards heroic is the lack of choice. You may want a certain distribution of red, blue and yellow, but you need the luck of the drop to make progress on your build. Your specialization does not scratch that itch, since you do not create a build there, you just end up with everything.

The best chance Division 2 has for build diversity are its skills. You only get two of them, but with cooldowns being what they are, you essentially have to learn to play encounters without them, since you cannot always count on your skills getting you out of tight spots. You then naturally reach the point where you do not need your skills and that aspect of the game dies off and builds along with it.Everybody is full damage, dps for the win, but what a loss for Div2.