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View Full Version : Whats with all the Luft 46' hate?



Autozam-1
07-03-2005, 03:52 AM
Greetings,I'm just getting into IL-2 but the main thing that drew me in were some of the more bizzare aircraft (Volksjager,Flying Wing,Komet,Bi-2) but unfortunantly it seems that most of the online games I play have cut these aircraft,and even the 262,Which by comparison is actually quite common.Now I dont fly these aircraft because I need the tech advantage,I just like them.But I havnt found a server yet allowing me to use them.But the thing is,Flying a jet aircraft is as hard,if not harder then it's prop counter parts.Theres the constand overheating and the very high chance of setting yourself on fire if you're too hasty.So I guess what I mean to ask is that if anyone knows of any servers that allow these aircraft at all?

Jasko76
07-03-2005, 03:59 AM
Hosts of these servers feel that these aircraft have too huge advantage in speed and firepower as opposed to prop fighters. No particular hatred against German jets. BI-1 and P-80 are left out as well.

Autozam-1
07-03-2005, 04:03 AM
Even so,It seems like alot of the prop fighters are being left out too.Tonight I was in a server where they removed virtually all the bombers except for the He-111 and the Russian Flying Boat Doo-Dad and pretty much all the fighters except for the major ones.

Yet they still had the BF-109z.

Badsight.
07-03-2005, 04:39 AM
WW2 Combat Flight Sim fans are generally propeller plane & DF combat enthuisiasts

their isnt as much interest in Jet Aircraft with these people as their is with Prop planes

partly also because Jet Gunzo combat isnt as cut & thrust as it is with Prop planes & partly because Jets as so fast that trying to kill one with a prop fighter is a lesson in patience

jet bias exists in CFS game communitys

Autozam-1
07-03-2005, 04:52 AM
I just did some quick battle testing and if theres 1 jet plane besides the 262 that should be let into games it's the 162.It has a fairly small ammo load as well as only being equipped with machine guns.That and the engine is about as big as the plane it's self and sits on top of it,Right out in the open.

But I mainly want to see them becuase they are just plain interesting to fly,But theres only so much you can do against the AI.

carguy_
07-03-2005, 05:20 AM
He162 and Me262 are unbeatable if flown by an experienced pilot.Simply you can`t do anything but evade them firing on you.

They were there in `44 and `45 - they were flown in combat and in good numbers,still the fantasy Me109Z is a prop plane thus possible to kill.


In this game you rarely have a chance to catch someone landing.This would be very hard because you always know if enemy planes are around.

Also long time ago when He162 and Me262 were in dev update screens,the whole allied community were laughing how little range those jetplanes have.Well,it came out completely the oher way.

Heliopause
07-03-2005, 05:56 AM
Don't know the names of the servers that have these planes but they are there. I saw them a few times on servers..(Hyperlobby)
Not very often though.

Fox_4
07-03-2005, 06:07 AM
I think there is a good deal of potential in the Me-262 for online games. So long as numbers of it were restricted, say only 2-3 allowed on a server, it wouldn't make things unbalanced, just more varied. The 262 is still suitably vulnerable, if enemy planes can gain an altitude advantage. I expect the P-47 in particular would be well suited to the task of patrolling at hi-alt and BnZing jets. Really, the Me-262 is just another BnZ plane, with its own set of advantages and disadvantages. Those engines don't take much damage at all, for one thing. So in cockpit only servers, limited numbers of Me262s would be quite an interesting addition I think.

WarWolfe_1
07-03-2005, 06:39 AM
Is it just me, or was there no Luft in 1946? Maybe thats why.

ForkTailedDevil
07-03-2005, 06:59 AM
I don't have a problem flying with jets in fact one of the main server's I fly on they allow jets from time to time. One of the last times I splashed 2 Me262's with a P-38 on the same sortie. What I miss are the bombers lately I have enjoyed them more and more I love attacking boats the most. It seems everyone wants to be a fighter jock though.

WTE_Wombat
07-03-2005, 07:49 AM
We have a map on the WTE_Ded server that has 262's. They operate in limited numbers from a single base and the Allied pilots (should) try to suppress it and the LW pilots (should) try to defend it.

Otherwise, look for some servers with more "relaxed" settings (like 'no cockpit') - they often have a more "relaxed" planeset too.

.

Nubarus
07-03-2005, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by Autozam-1:
It has a fairly small ammo load as well as only being equipped with machine guns.

Since when is the 20mm cannon a machine gun?

p1ngu666
07-03-2005, 09:32 AM
could always make a map/mission with me262 2a, but no one likes that one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

he162 is iffy, hardly used but not very potent, so 50/50 choice

go229, never used and utterly uber or was before.

me163 could be interesting!

bf109z ground object http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

me262 1a somewhat battleshiplike firepower so ;\

262 1/4u or whatever the big cannon one is called, never used, but requires luck and skill, so id be tempted to put it in http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
07-03-2005, 09:42 AM
Greatergreen or warclouds, I can't remember which, used to run a map where the Me262 was used for skip bombing against allied shipping. It had D9s for point defense of the airstrips and he-162 for support and cover of the 262s. The allies has the P-80, the P-51 and a couple of the other late ware prop planes. The map seemed to be very well balanced and was a lot of fun.

Jaws2002
07-03-2005, 10:34 AM
On Spits vs 109's I flew the Me-262 1/U4 against shermans in tunderstorm. That was hard and fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-03-2005, 01:36 PM
As for the LW46', I don't care to see them just as I don't like seeing the PY-80. IIRC, the PY-80 was flown but never saw combat. It's track record leaned more towards suicidal and too late.

In the future I plan to have a server of my own. It will be full real and the planesets will depend entirely on the maps and dates. If it was there and saw action it will be in the planeset; simple.

It amazes me that there are so many inaccurate planesets and maps on so many servers while we have so many threads whining about inaccurate FM's based on little or no real evidence. I like this sim because of it's accuracy while I dispise most servers because of their inaccuracies.

Am I the only one that cringes when I see a zero over eastern Europe? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz

VW-IceFire
07-03-2005, 03:41 PM
Depends on the servers you fly on. UK-D has a balanced and historical set of maps to fly on and one map inparticular has a very late war 1945 Berlin map with Me-262 jet fighters available for the blue side.

This is the MOST difficult map to fly on as a Red pilot as you will be facing down about 3/4ths of the Blue team in Me-262 jet fighters.

They have speed, climb, zoom climb, and firepower advantage over all red aircraft. Most of the time, Red focuses all efforts on destroying the ground targets and ending the map but this is a hazardous activity.

La-7 and Yak-3 pilots can sometimes catch unexperienced jet pilots in turns and during zoom climbs with a few rounds of 20mm. Fortunately a few hits and jets burn...but its very difficult.

Until Oleg lets us set limits to certain types of planes it will be hard.

A map with 2 Me-262s would be just fine...but if the entire team is flying them. Extrodinarily hard.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-03-2005, 03:49 PM
Zeros in Europe? Almost as bad as '45 Corsairs in Pearl Harbour recreations (yep...in a co-op).

It's always been a shame that quotas cannot be imposed on aircraft because it really would open things up in DF servers by allowing some of these maligned aircraft to fly and without the whining that accompanies them.

As to Luft "'46" hate? Nah..it's just jealousy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ta,
Norris

Fox_4
07-03-2005, 03:51 PM
I think the Russian planes are generally less well suited to fighting 262s than some American ones. They don't have good enough hi-altitude performance or high speed durability to be effective BnZ planes against jets. A western front map with 262s would be a closer matchup perhaps.

Monty_Thrud
07-03-2005, 04:35 PM
Because Oleg knows theres a big LW fanbase out there and wants to keep 'em interested...shame there isnt the Allied '46 planes to counter attack...then you might see more servers running them...bit of balance

VW-IceFire
07-03-2005, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Fox_4:
I think the Russian planes are generally less well suited to fighting 262s than some American ones. They don't have good enough hi-altitude performance or high speed durability to be effective BnZ planes against jets. A western front map with 262s would be a closer matchup perhaps.
True...although we only have one of a few jet chasers. The Mustang Mark III and P-51D are it at the moment. Tempest V and Spitfire XIV would also be good jet chasers.

Autozam-1
07-03-2005, 04:44 PM
Well I swallowed my pride and gave the Bf-109 a shot.I was happily downing P-51s and Ki-85s on Vet difficulty.

LEXX_Luthor
07-03-2005, 07:47 PM
carguy is right.
In this game you rarely have a chance to catch someone landing.
Landing (and takeoff) were the vulnerable spots of early jets when prop planes could beat them.

Along with the above mentioned idea of limiting plane numbers of each type, we need to require players to ReFuel and ReArm after landing, instead of arcade Instant Refly. This would be the most historical and realistically allow uber jets because now the jet pilots have to go through landing before joining The Dogfight(tm) again.

Autozam-1
07-03-2005, 08:14 PM
If anyones interested I am currently working on some replays of landing a Komet,A rather tricky plane to land.

Stigler_9_JG52
07-03-2005, 11:41 PM
By the way, Autozam, flying vs. the offline drones, on any level, in no way equates to flying vs. real humans online. It's just apples and oranges. Some things AI does very well, some things very bad. But not much of it is very humanlike.

jugent
07-04-2005, 12:19 AM
And the Me-262 is perhaps the most undermodelled plane in this sim.
According to my figures it is supposed to climb to 20.000 ft at 7 minutes, almost exacly as the P38L-1/5-LO according to the same sources.

Pirschjaeger
07-04-2005, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
By the way, Autozam, flying vs. the offline drones, on any level, in no way equates to flying vs. real humans online. It's just apples and oranges. Some things AI does very well, some things very bad. But not much of it is very humanlike.

I prefer flying against humans simply because they are both predictable and unpredictable. It doesn't take long to see when your enemy lacks experience but it doesn't mean he can't cut your rudder off with one of his wings. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Sometimes a noob is more dangerous than an ace.

Fritz

Badsight.
07-04-2005, 01:25 AM
AI changed big-time in v4.01

Autozam-1
07-04-2005, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
By the way, Autozam, flying vs. the offline drones, on any level, in no way equates to flying vs. real humans online. It's just apples and oranges. Some things AI does very well, some things very bad. But not much of it is very humanlike.

Exactly why I want to take some of these jet fighters online.But if you're referring to the Bf-109,Well those are pretty much my first prop fighter kills in 1 on 1.Especially since I just tried Vet them on vet today.

Fox_4
07-04-2005, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fox_4:
I think the Russian planes are generally less well suited to fighting 262s than some American ones. They don't have good enough hi-altitude performance or high speed durability to be effective BnZ planes against jets. A western front map with 262s would be a closer matchup perhaps.
True...although we only have one of a few jet chasers. The Mustang Mark III and P-51D are it at the moment. Tempest V and Spitfire XIV would also be good jet chasers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A think the P-47 would also be quite capable against Me262s. Not at chasing them outright, but at BnZing them. The jets are pretty fast, so sturdiness and good handling at high speeds would be necessary to 'safely' BnZ them (at high enough speeds that they can't just chase you down). Plus the 8 .50cals would make a big mess of those weak engines.

anarchy52
07-04-2005, 03:31 AM
I don't understand why are people putting Me-262 in Luft '46 category?
Me-262 was introduced in combat in late summer of 1944. 1400+ built, 300-400 flew in combat due to lack of pilots and fuel.
Me-163 was used from July 1944.

He-162, Ta-152H and even Do-335 flew combat sorties in very limited numbers.

Horten is probably the only Luft 46 plane in the game. Prototypes only, never used in combat.

Autozam-1
07-04-2005, 03:35 AM
Luft '46 refers more to the "wonder weapons" that were used at the end of the war,But did not get used to their full potential.But perhaps if Germany wasnt in the state it was in during 1945 the planes could of been used at the level they were planned.And if the war continued into 1946 built in large numbers as well as having a suitable number of pilots etc.

Loc-Dog6
07-04-2005, 03:39 AM
Anyone accusing the Go229 of being a uber plane should fly it more then once before making false statements. If you actually try it against a huge bomber formation or as a dog fighter, you will quickly realize that besides having canons the size of artillery, it's like flying a tanker truck! If hit anywhere, with any caliber, the Go229 will either start a fuel leak, or catch on fire and eventually blow up or run out of fuel. The Go229 is also very huge and flat, which makes it hard not to score hits on it, which leads to fuel leaks and other hazards.

Jet aircraft in IL-2 are more prone to failure and the invertible disaster when damaged in battle or experience mechanical failure then prop aircraft. I consider catching on fire by over-throttling or overheat a mechanical failure. All this considered, they might not be all that uber anymore. A smoking jet in IL-2 blows up eventually. A prop aircraft on the other hand can drift about, even after its engine is dead. What's so uber about that?

Autozam-1
07-04-2005, 03:43 AM
Yes the 229 is extremely vulnerable,Espescially when you jump it.Althought at level flight it's quite tricky to hit.

Badsight.
07-04-2005, 04:53 AM
i find when fighting the G0-229 with the P-80 , its easy to get leaking fuel , but Very hard to bust it apart

it doesnt get on fire to easy for me , & thats with shooting it with the best fire-starters to boot , the M2 fifty cal

seems to have a pretty strong DM imo

mynameisroland
07-04-2005, 05:03 AM
The best solution to fighting the Me 262 would be to allow the red side a few Fw a9 and d9's so they could add a liitle bit of firepower to the boom and zoom tactics. Imo those two ac are the best high speed B and zoomers in the game.

WOLFMondo
07-04-2005, 05:10 AM
No luft hate here, I'd really like more maps with those restriced airfields so we could have a few jets in there. We've got allied aircraft that where used to shoot down jets and were likely to get more i.e. the Tempest V which was a fantastic prop plane for taking down jets.


Originally posted by Fox_4:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fox_4:
I think the Russian planes are generally less well suited to fighting 262s than some American ones. They don't have good enough hi-altitude performance or high speed durability to be effective BnZ planes against jets. A western front map with 262s would be a closer matchup perhaps.
True...although we only have one of a few jet chasers. The Mustang Mark III and P-51D are it at the moment. Tempest V and Spitfire XIV would also be good jet chasers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A think the P-47 would also be quite capable against Me262s. Not at chasing them outright, but at BnZing them. The jets are pretty fast, so sturdiness and good handling at high speeds would be necessary to 'safely' BnZ them (at high enough speeds that they can't just chase you down). Plus the 8 .50cals would make a big mess of those weak engines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd say at the moment the P47 is the best jet chaser going because it can dive faster than any thing else and not have the risks of the wings ripping off. Its top speed before breaking up is so much higher than anything else, even the jets!

Gibbage1
07-04-2005, 05:36 AM
Well the main problem with addign the Me-262 and its like to online servers is that the ME-262 suffers from NONE of its historical drawbacks. #1 being limited numbers. When an Me-262 is in a map, ANYONE can fly it. And almost everyone does! The #2 drawback is fuel, or the lack of. The ME-262 was primaraly used against high alt bomber formations. Once it got UP to the bomber formations, it got 1-2 passes before it must return to base from lack of fuel. Thats when the escorts had there only chance, and that when they hit them. Online, 10-15 mins can be forever. 30 mins of fuel will sometimes last the entire map.

Once an Me-262 gets over your airbase, life is over for that airbase till he runs out of ammo if its properly flown. Its so fast not even AAA can hit it.

To put it simply, it unbalances the map too much.

JG7_SITH
07-04-2005, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by Autozam-1:
but unfortunantly it seems that most of the online games I play have cut these aircraft,and even the 262,Which by comparison is actually quite common.Now I dont fly these aircraft because I need the tech advantage,I just like them.

Its very simple .

G6 trying to catch up with a P-51 , 38 , 47 & Spitfire is VERY fun for the Allies .

P-51 , 38 , 47 & spitfire trying to catch a 262 is not very fun for the Allies , SO ban it . But they'll never admit it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mynameisroland
07-04-2005, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Well the main problem with addign the Me-262 and its like to online servers is that the ME-262 suffers from NONE of its historical drawbacks. #1 being limited numbers. When an Me-262 is in a map, ANYONE can fly it. And almost everyone does! The #2 drawback is fuel, or the lack of. The ME-262 was primaraly used against high alt bomber formations. Once it got UP to the bomber formations, it got 1-2 passes before it must return to base from lack of fuel. Thats when the escorts had there only chance, and that when they hit them. Online, 10-15 mins can be forever. 30 mins of fuel will sometimes last the entire map.

Once an Me-262 gets over your airbase, life is over for that airbase till he runs out of ammo if its properly flown. Its so fast not even AAA can hit it.

To put it simply, it unbalances the map too much.

What kind of map are you flying on? 30 min isnt that long even online. I regularly fly over 30 min sorties on maps that rotate and have a timelimit of 80 min. Having flown the Me 262 online quite often I can also dismiss your fears that it is immune from AAA Most of my online deaths in the 262 are a direct result of AAA. As its ammo supply is also limited I dont see too much of a problem. When a 262 dives it can quickly reach break up speed and become unmanuverable - I dont have gripes with it I think its a great AC but it is not uncounterable or Uber.

On UKD the ME 262 has a KD of 3.73 to 1 the where as the Fw 190 D 44 has a KD of 4.87 to 1 I find it easier to get multiple kills in a D9 as you can follw an evasive manuver for longer and you are not flying a paper AC.

WOLFMondo
07-04-2005, 06:14 AM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
The ME-262 was primaraly used against high alt bomber formations. Once it got UP to the bomber formations, it got 1-2 passes before it must return to base from lack of fuel.


They were also used extensivly for airfield attack and recon. The whole Tempest 'Rat Catchers' thing was set up to specifically stop 262's which were causing all sorts of havoc.

IRL they would make one pass at an airfield then leave because the AA was so intense. At this point the 'rat catchers' on active patrol would dive on then and shoot them down or shadow them back to the flak corridors and take them down on landing.

Loc-Dog6
07-04-2005, 07:21 AM
In response to your post Gibbage1: What about the P-51? It doesn't suffer from a crucial historical drawback that made pilots crash and burn if not told, or so I've read...

Supposedly, the P-51 had a 85 gallon fuselage tank behind the center of gravity. The aircraft would snap roll and dig in if you got fresh on the stick with a full tank. So they had to drain it down to about 40 gallons which brought back the center of gravity and made it stable again.

I'm not a luftie, or whatever you guys call it. I just think it's slightly unfair to point out those things without realizing that half of the allied planes lack similar things in the game. This is not an authentic game, at least in terms of FM and aircraft authenticity.

Hetzer_II
07-04-2005, 07:33 AM
I dont know if it was already said,

but...

besides the Go229 we dont have any 46luft planes in the current planeset...

most of them 262,335 for example flew much earlier.. the 262 also in not to small numbers...

And for the books:

I bet there were more operational 262´s on the eto than spit XIV, markIII or IX with 25"...

greets...

;-)
now bash on me...

p1ngu666
07-04-2005, 10:18 AM
actually, i think the most number of sorties by 262's in a day was nearly beaten by a single ground attack wing, flying spitfires.
before lunch.

largest number of 262s in frontline service, 200 in april 45

most fighter sorties in a day, 59

most fighterbomber sorties in a day 55

most victories in a day 16

highest tonnage of bombs dropped 7 and a half tons

~spitfire~
4 squadrons, but sending 6 aircraft at a time, 1/2 - 1/3rd strength being sortied at a time
9 missions
9x6=54

thats from 9.45am to 11.35

making a hypothetical 12hour day of flying, at the same rate they would fly 648 sorties, including a 10minute break everyhour http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
07-04-2005, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
Zeros in Europe? Almost as bad as '45 Corsairs in Pearl Harbour recreations (yep...in a co-op).

It's always been a shame that quotas cannot be imposed on aircraft because it really would open things up in DF servers by allowing some of these maligned aircraft to fly and without the whining that accompanies them.

As to Luft "'46" hate? Nah..it's just jealousy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ta,
Norris
It is possible to limit the amount of people that can spawn at a base. Say you want only 5 pilots to be able to fly 262s. It can be done by limiting spawns for that base.

BigganD
07-04-2005, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Depends on the servers you fly on. UK-D has a balanced and historical set of maps to fly on and one map inparticular has a very late war 1945 Berlin map with Me-262 jet fighters available for the blue side.

This is the MOST difficult map to fly on as a Red pilot as you will be facing down about 3/4ths of the Blue team in Me-262 jet fighters.

They have speed, climb, zoom climb, and firepower advantage over all red aircraft. Most of the time, Red focuses all efforts on destroying the ground targets and ending the map but this is a hazardous activity.

La-7 and Yak-3 pilots can sometimes catch unexperienced jet pilots in turns and during zoom climbs with a few rounds of 20mm. Fortunately a few hits and jets burn...but its very difficult.

Until Oleg lets us set limits to certain types of planes it will be hard.

A map with 2 Me-262s would be just fine...but if the entire team is flying them. Extrodinarily hard.

"Until Oleg lets us set limits to certain types of planes it will be hard." I agree with that!

LEXX_Luthor
07-04-2005, 05:27 PM
Havok::
It is possible to limit the amount of people that can spawn at a base. Say you want only 5 pilots to be able to fly 262s. It can be done by limiting spawns for that base.
That's what I always suspected. So, the unlimited numbers are sloppy map making? I suggest putting the limited 262 bases farther back from the... Dogfight Frontline...I guess that's what you call it. Then taking 262 requires willing to fly it longer distance.

Gibbage is right about 262s used for attacking bomber formations...like... Year 1941 He-111? B-25? What Online play needs is more 1941 planes to match the Flyable bombers available. Bomber pilots get cut off at 1942, leaving them facing nothing but 1944 Dogfighter planes.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-04-2005, 06:13 PM
Hi,

I know you can limit the # of aircraft by, AFAIK, adjusting the size of the circle around the base (hardly an intuitive way of doing things but hey) and I suspect you're right (people are lazy and/or don't know about it) or maybe it just doesn't work very well.

I'm not sure why the co-op plane selection interface couldn't be applied to DF servers also. Too late in the day now, though.

Ta,
Norris

Autozam-1
07-04-2005, 10:32 PM
So that circle just adjusts how many people can spawn at that base? Does anyone have a reference on how many people are allowed for each slider location?

horseback
07-04-2005, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Loc-Dog6:
In response to your post Gibbage1: What about the P-51? It doesn't suffer from a crucial historical drawback that made pilots crash and burn if not told, or so I've read...

Supposedly, the P-51 had a 85 gallon fuselage tank behind the center of gravity. The aircraft would snap roll and dig in if you got fresh on the stick with a full tank. So they had to drain it down to about 40 gallons which brought back the center of gravity and made it stable again.

I'm not a luftie, or whatever you guys call it. I just think it's slightly unfair to point out those things without realizing that half of the allied planes lack similar things in the game. This is not an authentic game, at least in terms of FM and aircraft authenticity.

Actually, the P-51 in the game does wallow like a pig with 100% fuel; but, just as in real life, it is rarely flown during combat with a full fuselage tank. Because of the well known CG problem, it was the last tank filled and the first tank burned off for combat operations.

The only time it was filled was for escort missions, and they burned off that tank first, even before the drop tanks. The rest of the time, if you didn't need that fuel, they left the fuselage tank less than half full and flew the aircraft the way the designer intended, properly balanced.

So most people, not needing to fly for 4-6 hours, choose to fill their Mustangs with 50% or less fuel. The balance is apparently modelled on percentage of fuel, but since we don't have the option of selecting fuel tanks in this sim, a half load of fuel in a Mustang shows the fuselage tank full by default, but the CG balance is modelled as though the fuselage tank is near empty and the wing tanks were full.

Oh, and by the by, Gibbage is one of the few people here with an intimate knowledge of what goes into the modelling of the aircraft. He's the guy who did the P-38s in this sim.

cheers

horseback