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View Full Version : Idea for changes to 'contested dens/tower take over'



SolidSage
12-19-2011, 11:09 AM
Hi.
I kind of like the Den Defense but it's not something I want to do anymore. I'm not bothering with it in my 2nd save, as keeping the towers 'Alive' makes replay so much more fun.

My idea, is that instead of contesting towers (lets just keep those under enemy control so we ALWAYS have people to fight), and defending dens (the mandatory mini game seems to be a bit of a distraction to most), let us instead, have to defend our stores.
So periodically, the banks, blacksmiths, etc, will come under attack (one at a time) and we have to defend them to keep that particular site open. I don't think it needs to be a mini game, just a randomly occuring event that requires our attention and keeps the game going after completion.
Failed defense would result in the site closing and monetary/access loss until we open it again. But instead of buying it open we should have to raid the HQ of the faction that attacked it, beat up their boss, make him say sorry, and then rebuy it.
The motivation being the desire to not have to run miles and miles to withdraw cash. The bypass for players not interested being tunnel use back to Assassin HQ bank. Although.....tunnels might need attacking too! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif
And lets have the physical defense of the site, happen in the street, with a wave like attack of about 50 to 100 faction members. So, 5 in the first wave, then 10 in the second, 15, 25, 30.

How you like?

Assassin_M
12-19-2011, 11:15 AM
I wouldnt want den defence for on simple reason only:

It would be repetitive to include in AC III, Id like it to be an ACR exclusive..

So any change to the concept of "contested den" in the right direction would be fine for me..

your idea however is plausible.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

SolidSage
12-19-2011, 11:30 AM
Yeah, I don't think contested den needs to live after ACR. But I do think random events need a bit more attention. Something enjoyable that can KEEP happening long after game completion...forever basically.
My goal with this idea is for there to be a somewhat frequent excuse for a MASSIVE combat sequence, where we get to slay loads of AI, and upon failure (cos it should be a challenge, maybe give the store a life bar), a good excuse to infiltrate a compound, sneakily killing or bypassing guards (no detection mandate) and then a nice set up for either an assassination of the boss or perhaps a beat up.
Maybe have different requirements for different factions, so thieves we have to chase and aquire something during defense, mercenaries are a straight up fight, etc. And have those differences apply to the infiltrate/assassinate sequence too, in some way.

Its not well thought out but I get the the Devs ARE trying to address a replay issue with these towers. I think what they did in ACR is better than ACB, but it still could use a nice tweaking.

scout455
12-19-2011, 12:15 PM
I disagree. I like the idea of the enemies trying to reclaim their territory. It gives me more to do. It's the way they're doing it. Den defense is fun and all but I don't think it suits assassins creed gameplay. I'd prefer like a massive hand to hand combat battle with your recruits. That's my suggestion.

SolidSage
12-19-2011, 12:20 PM
That would work just fine too. Remove the den defense and no permanent tower take over.
Big brawls we agree on it seems.

ProdiGurl
12-19-2011, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by scout455:
I disagree. I like the idea of the enemies trying to reclaim their territory. It gives me more to do. It's the way they're doing it. Den defense is fun and all but I don't think it suits assassins creed gameplay. I'd prefer like a massive hand to hand combat battle with your recruits. That's my suggestion.

First off all, hats off to SolidSage for trying to brainstorm new ideas instead of just criticizing & removing things.

I'd still like my Q answered about a value system/treasure chests/economy - what do we buy with our money if not liberating the towns where Templars are suppressing the people.

I know it's the devs job to think up everything, but we don't seem to have any answers either... ? But if people want buying shops & city landmarks to go, what do we do for a value/reward system?

Sorry, back to topic, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

I agree with this & this was the only solution I could come up with. I like the idea of real consequences & setbacks to our cause and making some sort of difficult combat scenario is a good one if they keep D Defense at all.

I guess the real question would be in the combat details.
My input was that we couldn't have medicine & could easily lose. It can't be easy to win.

SolidSage
12-19-2011, 01:07 PM
@Prodigurl
Yes, it has to be hard. Maybe the stores have a tiered value system, so small banks get less waves, but the big/higher tiered banks/stores, get the big waves. And its not that you get killed as much as it takes super skill to prevent the site life bar getting trashed, like the herald defense MA mission hard.

We deffo need city rennovation for our money, along with stores. I wonder if, in AC3, instead of 'owning' recruits as mentor, we instead have to 'employ' them. So keeping money generating sites at maximum income, not only gives replay, but also keeps us in enough money to 'purchase' the arrow storm or send recruits on missions for us etc.
We DO need something to make money a necessity after completion and also to make managing it a bit of work. Because for me, after game completion in the last three games, I'm always big bank with nothing to spend it on really.

ProdiGurl
12-19-2011, 02:47 PM
We DO need something to make money a necessity after completion and also to make managing it a bit of work. Because for me, after game completion in the last three games, I'm always big bank with nothing to spend it on really.


Ya that's me too since I take my time playing, it just keeps rolling in lol (if only real life were like this) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

They could force us to pay for better weapons for our Recruits - and pay more for the leveling up missions they get sent on?
That would make things have to go slower.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have gone into detail on the value system thingy - it messes with your Topic which is a good one.

I have a feeling more people would prefer defense be totally yanked than revamped.

But if they created it into a more mission-based system (which majority of user input is in favor of adding more missions), they might not have as much complaint about it.

Plus if they somehow made it optional, that would be even better for those who just think it doesn't belong in AC at all.

SolidSage
12-19-2011, 03:03 PM
Yeah, I think the main complaint with Den Defense is that it takes you out of the game and into another. I'm sure that if it was just a physical contesting, fighting with guards, everyone for the most part would be cool with it.
I think using tower take over as the tool to assist with replay is the way to go. Even as a replacement for the lack luster randomly occuring events. Which are also a good idea but the events themselves are very unengaging.

Someone suggested randomly occuring bounties like in RDR/Grand Theft Horse. They did work well, but might just turn into courier pursuit, which was good but quickly boring.
I'd like a larger scale occurence, something like a mission, even if it only had four variances, which is why I used the factions as the involved elements.

ProdiGurl
12-19-2011, 03:43 PM
Someone suggested randomly occuring bounties like in RDR/Grand Theft Horse. They did work well, but might just turn into courier pursuit, which was good but quickly boring.
I'd like a larger scale occurence, something like a mission, even if it only had four variances, which is why I used the factions as the involved elements.

Bounties . . ya that was a kool element in RDR.
Hmmmm gets me thinking.
It's always a fine line of Annoyance vs. a great little addition that adds excitement.

The Stalkers were brilliant - just wish they could actually offer more damage than they did.
It sure kept me from putting my controller down without Pausing & walking away to do something or not pay attn. lol.

Ya involving Factions could work too since there were concerns about the Factions becoming less important.

Black_Widow9
12-19-2011, 08:54 PM
Please make sure you post this here-
AC Revelations: Singleplayer Game feedback. [Do Not Post Spoilers!] (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/3721023169)

ProdiGurl
12-20-2011, 05:40 AM
Thanks,
I've been posting in there ... I laid off of it for a little while, I thought people might get irritated at my constant additions lol
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Maybe one of us can copy/paste some of the points in there. I don't know if Ubi will be reading all that. I hope they have a thick skin too.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Inorganic9_2
12-20-2011, 08:04 AM
I quite enjoy den defence, but I also don't think it should be dug up again for another AC game. Contested dens should stay, but there needs to be a different method for winning them back. The dens themselves should look a bit more conspicuous, not massive towers. That would mean you may have to search out the right building in enemy territory too.

Contested dens...perhaps you should have to fulfil different requirements, based on the the type of enemy presence to reclaim it. Stealth assassinate x soldiers (or certain soldiers) and the leader without being spotted, get into open conflict and last for x minutes, take out certain gunmen before you can confront the attacking leader etc.


A few little side points

Factions: Imo, should be less important. An assassins should be able to distract and infiltrate without needing help from random people.

Stalkers: excellent addition; I only wish killing them yourself didn't reduce notoriety.

luckyto
12-20-2011, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by scout455:
I disagree. I like the idea of the enemies trying to reclaim their territory. It gives me more to do. It's the way they're doing it.

Amen.

I do not like Den Defense. I cannot skip it, I can avoid it, but I can't skip. Even if I could just choose "Forfeit Den" and then take it back the hard way would be enough.

but... since we are hypothesizing...

I would run it like a contamination... certain dens and businesses in the city start our "RED" (Templars). On a timed counter, they spread like a virus to the closest business/den geographically... turning those businesses "RED." These areas would also feature Templar guards and random targets.

The player could retake dens, repurchase businesses or potentially participate in side quests to lock some (but not all) businesses/dens. Eventually, if the player worked hard and fast, he could either eliminate the threat or contain it to a single spot which isn't 'takeable.'

- One, this would lead to a constantly dynamic map. When someone finished the campaign, there would still be hours of work... and they could potentially free-roam forever; reliving side quests, business purchases and den conquests.
- Two, the economic system would be even more balanced than Revelations (which was the most balanced of the three games.) Your income would be constantly increased or decreased.
- Three, because of the nature of the virus, it likely would never spread the same on replay. It would always be different.
- Four, holds true to the story foundation that the war between the Assassins and Templars is a constant struggle.

The key would be how quickly it spread. If it spread too fast, it would be annoying. Too slow, and it might not be challenging.

Still, if I were King of the World, that's how I'd do it.

ProdiGurl
12-20-2011, 09:17 AM
luckyto that's really interesting, I will think about that approach -

SolidSage
12-20-2011, 10:46 AM
There's some interesting ideas coming up. I think we all agree that we want some sort of continual demand of our time and attention, and money, and that it needs to include violence. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I like Lucky's idea of a dynamic map. Having to actually fight the war of attrition in a more direct manner, as well as influencing the future with our mission assassinations.

I'm not stuck on my idea at all, but I am stuck on wanting to see an improvement to open ended gameplay.

I don't want to see us locking down the entier maps and eliminating the exciting AI from replay again. It's the same after completing every Creed, the city loses it's vibrancy, it's no longer as hostile because of our liberation of it, and that's just depressing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

ProdiGurl
12-20-2011, 11:26 AM
There's some interesting ideas coming up. I think we all agree that we want some sort of continual demand of our time and attention, and money, and that it needs to include violence. Veryhappy

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif


I don't want to see us locking down the entier maps and eliminating the exciting AI from replay again. It's the same after completing every Creed, the city loses it's vibrancy, it's no longer as hostile because of our liberation of it, and that's just depressing. Too Happy
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
Ya I like em suppressed and downtrodden too, they're alot more fun that way.
hahah

luckyto
12-20-2011, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by SolidSage:

I don't want to see us locking down the entire maps and eliminating the exciting AI from replay again. It's the same after completing every Creed, the city loses it's vibrancy, it's no longer as hostile because of our liberation of it, and that's just depressing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

HAHA too right --- guards to rain death upon. Except AC1 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Guards stay just as fun.

No game was more evident of this than Brotherhood. A game that I enjoyed - though didn't love - through the missions. But once the Borgia were gone and the Towers were clear, the city took on the same bland environment and frankly, there was absolutely noone to go about fighting. It was barren. A couple of guards here and there, but that was it. With chain-killing, any fight would be over in seconds.

I now keep a save file about halfway through, with all but the bottom corner opened up. I've left four towers untaken. I'll go and fight, but I never light it. Then I'll go back and take it again. The districts actually have a slightly different look now, because some are free and some are still oppressed. It's better, but not great.

ProdiGurl
12-20-2011, 01:18 PM
I didn't think about doing it that way... good idea.

SolidSage
12-20-2011, 03:49 PM
I did the same thing in ACB, just opened the 1 or maybe 2 that the game required.
I am of course doing the same thing with R. No locked dens whatsoever.

Ha ha, its so sad, we're like little kids when it comes to the AI, "chase me chase me....okay, now DIE!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif (maybe not the last part so much but I think you catch my drift). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif