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Diablo310th
08-31-2005, 12:25 PM
My wishes and dreams for the Jug:

1. Climb Rates http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/8501049053

2. Dive Accelerations http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/9991053533

3. Desynchronize the .50's http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/2231006943

4. Have a proper bomb loadout of 2x1000 lbs on wings with a 500lb slung under fuselage.

5. Next new small patch that we plan to release in the end of August is v4.02 and will contains: - P-47D boosted for use of 150 octan (almost P-47M performance).

6. a new cockpit with gauges that work and a headrest that allows rearward visibility.

7. DM tweak where 1 20mm doesn't cut tail off.

8. Radiator flaps that actually work. http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/5691058153

9. Possible overweight issue of extra ammunition .

10. A more realistic USAAF loadout of API-API-API-API-APIT.

Hmmm did i miss anything Jug Jocks??? feel free to add to this list.

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-31-2005, 12:28 PM
Don't forget the ashtray...no really, they had them.


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Looks good to me D

TheGozr
08-31-2005, 12:37 PM
Ha!! the P47

http://www.french.themotorhead.com/il2/images/skin/P47GH1.jpg

Lets do a flight formation for some action in a P47 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Daiichidoku
08-31-2005, 12:45 PM
not sure, but i believe the D 22 is NOT fitted with paddle prop, as it should be

D 27 should have small rudder fillet

an armoured headrest that actually is amroured, hehe
**** thing is SO big, no way to see around it...yet it seems to afford completely NO protection for pilots head at the same time PFT

well, only other thing i can think of is a "field mod", as the 190s got with ability to remove some guns...a few 56th jugs (D 10s i think) were changed to "superbolts" by mahrins crew chief...and a few others did the sdame, too
cracks filled and polished; removal of rearview mirror; removal of 4 guns

WOLFMondo
08-31-2005, 01:20 PM
i'm not even bothered about the new 'm' version, i'd like the d27 to perform like it did and i'll be happy.

Saunders1953
08-31-2005, 02:59 PM
You guys dream about jugs, too? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

56th BMAC
08-31-2005, 03:10 PM
Looks good to me Diablo. I sincerely hope it all gets done!

It'll be interesting to see how many more people fly the Jug in the next patch. Perhaps this will get some of the fighting above 1000 meters for a change http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
08-31-2005, 03:10 PM
The ability to leave a 109 behind in a dive. Not talking maximum breakup speed either.

VW-IceFire
08-31-2005, 06:58 PM
I like that list http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Its overdue. At least number 5 seems to be a dream come partially true.

fordfan25
08-31-2005, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Diablo310th:
My wishes and dreams for the Jug:

1. Climb Rates http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/8501049053

2. Dive Accelerations http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/9991053533

3. Desynchronize the .50's http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/2231006943

4. Have a proper bomb loadout of 2x1000 lbs on wings with a 500lb slung under fuselage.

5. Next new small patch that we plan to release in the end of August is v4.02 and will contains: - P-47D boosted for use of 150 octan (almost P-47M performance).

6. a new cockpit with gauges that work and a headrest that allows rearward visibility.

7. DM tweak where 1 20mm doesn't cut tail off.

8. Radiator flaps that actually work. http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/5691058153

9. Possible overweight issue of extra ammunition .

10. A more realistic USAAF loadout of API-API-API-API-APIT.

Hmmm did i miss anything Jug Jocks??? feel free to add to this list.


i had the same dream last night. only i had a danceing bear on each wing and the guns fired egg's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Grey_Mouser67
08-31-2005, 07:49 PM
Excellent list...I'd like to add

1.pitch and yaw oscillations brought under control for certain allied aircraft and control dampening so that the nose of a Mustang, lightning and Jug doesn't jiggle around like an Oleg Bobblehead. I would anticipate a big improvement of gunnery scores as a result of this change and the ability to make consistant tracking shots with Jug, Lightning, Mustang etc with more certainty of killing opponent.

2. P-38J climbrates improved to historical numbers and elevator authority brought up to standards on all Lightnings

3. When a plane starts on fire...ie Lightning, Me-110 Ki-43 etc...it actually burns and does damage and doesnt just go out ala ki-84 and George

4. Fantasy four...Spit Mk XIV or poor mans version...25lb boost Mk IX and a flyable Avenger...oh yeah, I need four...B-25 gunship and Typhoon as long as I'm dreaming.

5. AI speed bug dealt with

6. Soften up that Fw...there is a bigger problem than not showing trailing smoke

7. Toughen up Jug, Hellcat and Corsair...couple of AI aircraft MC202 and George are tough as nails too...probably simplistic DM and doesn't get much attention due to AI status.

8. The jugs are great! Keep em coming...but please let us outdive something!

9. As long as we're on the topic of Jugs...it would be nice to have a HVAR loadout for that late model Jug and maybe even a K-14 gunsight...but if not, I'll get over it!

10. I'd love to have some more killable ships...especially small ones like barges, fishing boats, trawlers, japanese submarines, maybe a cruiser...the small boats should be killable with HMG's.

Enough for now...my top ten

fordfan25
08-31-2005, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Grey_Mouser67:
Excellent list...I'd like to add

1.pitch and yaw oscillations brought under control for certain allied aircraft and control dampening so that the nose of a Mustang, lightning and Jug doesn't jiggle around like an Oleg Bobblehead. I would anticipate a big improvement of gunnery scores as a result of this change and the ability to make consistant tracking shots with Jug, Lightning, Mustang etc with more certainty of killing opponent.

2. P-38J climbrates improved to historical numbers and elevator authority brought up to standards on all Lightnings

3. When a plane starts on fire...ie Lightning, Me-110 Ki-43 etc...it actually burns and does damage and doesnt just go out ala ki-84 and George

4. Fantasy four...Spit Mk XIV or poor mans version...25lb boost Mk IX and a flyable Avenger...oh yeah, I need four...B-25 gunship and Typhoon as long as I'm dreaming.

5. AI speed bug dealt with

6. Soften up that Fw...there is a bigger problem than not showing trailing smoke

7. Toughen up Jug, Hellcat and Corsair...couple of AI aircraft MC202 and George are tough as nails too...probably simplistic DM and doesn't get much attention due to AI status.

8. The jugs are great! Keep em coming...but please let us outdive something!

9. As long as we're on the topic of Jugs...it would be nice to have a HVAR loadout for that late model Jug and maybe even a K-14 gunsight...but if not, I'll get over it!

10. I'd love to have some more killable ships...especially small ones like barges, fishing boats, trawlers, japanese submarines, maybe a cruiser...the small boats should be killable with HMG's.

Enough for now...my top ten


would you like to super size that order for just 15 cent http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Mackane1
08-31-2005, 08:43 PM
I think the P-47 should have a Red Rider carbine action Daisy air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing that tells time! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
http://home.si.rr.com/skywolf/031223_christmasstory_hmed_11a.hmedium.jpg

Grey_Mouser67
08-31-2005, 08:43 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

They don't call em wish lists for nothing!

Seriously...I'd really be happy if we got climb rate on P-38J corrected along with elevator authority...and the pitch dampening/oscillations toned down to Bf109 levels...the game would be soooo much more enjoyable.

I actually get very frustrated flying online with a Mustang or Lightning due to those traits and I hope to never get to the point I don't enjoy the game because simming is one of my favorite things and there just is no competition out there for Oleg or for us.

Just tonight, while flying, I lost my wingman as I shot at a 109, got strikes, flashes, pcs, fuel leak...but no kill...I couldn't stay on target through the manuevers...if I'd been flying a Fw or 109, that guy and his wingman would have been toast. I got two kills during one sortie...both were pass/sprays that got pcs..and I had to run for my life...I was faster so that wasn't a problem...then 10 minutes later I get the "enemy destroyed" signal when the guy landed....

You know, if it wasn't for that little online gimmick...there would be a full fledged riot on Oleg's hands! And I do mean that...I'd say nearly 50% of my online kills come from leakers/smokers that return to base...imagine if the statistics on Warclouds reflected that...cut red kills in half! Holy Moly...it would get downright owly in this forum http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

I am really, really looking forward to the Hotrod Jug though!

LeadSpitter_
09-01-2005, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
i'm not even bothered about the new 'm' version, i'd like the d27 to perform like it did and i'll be happy.

my thoughts exactly same with many other ac and dms.

Friendly_flyer
09-01-2005, 01:11 AM
7. DM tweak where 1 20mm doesn't cut tail off.

I thought that the point of 20 mms was to cut tail of armoured aircrafts off. Am I mistaken?

Monson74
09-01-2005, 01:28 AM
Bump for the desync - I know nothing about the rest.

WOLFMondo
09-01-2005, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">7. DM tweak where 1 20mm doesn't cut tail off.

I thought that the point of 20 mms was to cut tail of armoured aircrafts off. Am I mistaken? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The P47 has virtually no armour apart from behind the pilot, its over built construction is its strength but its tail does come off all to easy.

I've flown it a few times since 4.01. The P47 was my favorite ride along with the 190's. Now I simply don't fly it cause it just aggrivates me that its nothing like its real life analogue.

GR142_Astro
09-01-2005, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by Mackane1:
I think the P-47 should have a Red Rider carbine action Daisy air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing that tells time! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
http://home.si.rr.com/skywolf/031223_christmasstory_hmed_11a.hmedium.jpg

You'll shoot your eye out!


Good list Diablo. Like the P51 the Jug is just kind of a bundle of hokey gimmicks now. Pre 4.01 the Jug could rock, ONLY if flown well and that's how it outta be.

Unless someone mentioned already, proper forward view in the D22.

@Gozr: Nice Jugs!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

http://www.oliversart.co.uk/acatalog/images/jpgs-lrg/aviation/0042%20Thunderbolt%20Strike%20.jpg

Cajun76
09-01-2005, 05:32 AM
Mmmmmmmm........ Jugs.


Astro, is there a bigger version of that pic I can get somewhere? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cajun76
09-01-2005, 05:34 AM
Originally posted by 56th BMAC:
Looks good to me Diablo. I sincerely hope it all gets done!

It'll be interesting to see how many more people fly the Jug in the next patch. Perhaps this will get some of the fighting above 1000 meters for a change http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Now how am I going to keep my kill count up if they stop mowing the grass, boss? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-01-2005, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by Cajun76:
Mmmmmmmm........ Jugs.


Astro, is there a bigger version of that pic I can get somewhere? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


It's a Robert Taylor and is available at most aviation art vendors. One of my favs too.

Professor_06
09-01-2005, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by Grey_Mouser67:
Excellent list...I'd like to add

1.pitch and yaw oscillations brought under control for certain allied aircraft and control dampening so that the nose of a Mustang, lightning and Jug doesn't jiggle around like an Oleg Bobblehead. I would anticipate a big improvement of gunnery scores as a result of this change and the ability to make consistant tracking shots with Jug, Lightning, Mustang etc with more certainty of killing opponent.


That would be "Yaw Damping" and yes the P47 all subvarients and the F4U, all subvariants are missing correct yaw damping. and, in addition, incorrect gyroscopic effect causes these planes to wobble in the linear and vertical axis at all speeds, like a flying beer keg.

I would add

11. corrected tracer color
12. tracer smoke as per reality
13. correct convergence dispersion. (all guns were aimed and test fired to converge within an 18inch target at 200 yards) I find excessive lateral and vertical deviation from the target in excess of standard practice.

GR142_Astro
09-01-2005, 10:41 PM
Bump for Jugs, and a BIG bump for tracers you can actually see. I've seen a couple of folks yarn out something about b&w film making tracers much more bright than in real life, but simply put: I ain't buyin'.

Don't go nuts, a little is all we ask.

http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/Tracers.Jpeg

Jagdklinger
09-02-2005, 05:22 AM
Could I add my support to this thread...

....incidentally, I hate the P47 (a poor man's Fw190) and I think it looks more like a torpedo bomber than a fighter, but I refuse to believe it was as truly appalling in RL as it is in this sim... heck, if it was we'd all be speaking German...

Keep up the good whining, guys!

Cajun76
09-02-2005, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by Jagdklinger:
Could I add my support to this thread...

....incidentally, I hate the P47 (a poor man's Fw190)...


Ah, a case of altitude envy? That's alright, it can go play "Mow ze Lawn" with the Yaks... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif j/k

Actually, I had some fun with Kurt's masterpiece the other day. I kept a Ta-152 at bay by forcing him to try and roll to keep on me or lose any hope of an angle. Worked pretty well, I think I could have exploited it even better if I wasn't so rusty, not that I'm great on a good day mind you. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif After coming in with better speed and alt, he left in search of other prey. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I wouldn't normally mention the fight, but it might help some other Jug-aholics out there.

WOLFMondo
09-02-2005, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Jagdklinger:
Could I add my support to this thread...

....incidentally, I hate the P47 (a poor man's Fw190) and I think it looks more like a torpedo bomber than a fighter, but I refuse to believe it was as truly appalling in RL as it is in this sim... heck, if it was we'd all be speaking German...

Keep up the good whining, guys!

bah! There very similar planes in many respects and very different in others but one thing I do know, there my two favorite planes in FB.

But a jug with a Torpedo...that would be an interesting combination.

Dtools4fools
09-02-2005, 09:50 AM
Agree on lot of changes suggested except this one:


The P47 has virtually no armour apart from behind the pilot, its over built construction is its strength but its tail does come off all to easy.

Point is that the tail does not come off too easy. No one-20-hit-tail-comes-off. This is simply not true. Read testing done in P-47 DM topic.
Tail comes off to OFTEN (instead of other damage), but not too EASY.
P-47 is thoughest single engine figher and needs not to be tougher overall. And certainly it does not need to get tougher because other planes (FW) DM is porked. Those need to be corrected. If one plane got wrong DM, then giving another plane a wrong DM as well to "even" things is wrong approach. Two wrongs do not make one right.
P-47 was no flying tank.
****

NorrisMcWhirter
09-02-2005, 09:59 AM
The thing is, once people know that the 'tail comes off', they just shoot there all the time and self-perpetuate the theory that it comes off 'every time someone gets on my 6' i.e. 'too easily'

Ta
Norris

Stanger_361st
09-02-2005, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Saunders1953:
You guys dream about jugs, too? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Every night.

Jagdklinger
09-02-2005, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by Cajun76:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jagdklinger:
Could I add my support to this thread...

....incidentally, I hate the P47 (a poor man's Fw190)...


Ah, a case of altitude envy? That's alright, it can go play "Mow ze Lawn" with the Yaks... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif j/k

Actually, I had some fun with Kurt's masterpiece the other day. I kept a Ta-152 at bay by forcing him to try and roll to keep on me or lose any hope of an angle. Worked pretty well, I think I could have exploited it even better if I wasn't so rusty, not that I'm great on a good day mind you. After coming in with better speed and alt, he left in search of other prey

I wouldn't normally mention the fight, but it might help some other Jug-aholics out there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, this has inspired ME to give the P47 another whirl. How do you maximize effectiveness of convergance of 50s? I have been trying 175m MG/225m cannon to try a 'shotgun' effect, but it seems woefully ineffective compared to the Fw190. Here are some issues I have with P47 - any advice you can give me to help would be appreciated: (besides 'stay high')

Fw190 can evade better, and dive as fast or FASTER (historically wrong?)
Fw190 cannon more effective in BnZ
Fw190 can corrects its aim better in BnZ
Climb rate seems similar (Fw190 seems better in high-speed climb?) (historically wrong?)
Fw190A/D performance superior to P47 low/medium

The only thing I currently enjoy about the P47 is its cockpit/view - admittedly I have not much flight time in it, hence my appeal for advice...

NorrisMcWhirter
09-02-2005, 06:06 PM
On the subject of dives, I was attacking a '44 P47 online last night in a 190A8. In level flight I was gaining slowly on the P47 then he nosed down and pulled away from me (admittedly slowly). When we levelled out again, I caught him and put a 30mm cannon round into his pit...which didn't kill the pilot.

So, from a position of similar e, he could pull away from me initially. Of course, we started off at about 3k so he didn't have many options available.

Ta,
Norris

ljazz
09-03-2005, 03:37 AM
ahhhhhh Jug Dreams!!!

I dream of a day when the Jug will once again have some teeth. Unfortunately, I think I'm better off in the a20 for now.... atleast I can fire back out the tail.

ljazz

Cajun76
09-03-2005, 04:06 AM
Depending on initial separation, he should have started a shallow high speed climb if he was far enough away, preferrably toward home. Fw's usually fall behind, and you've gained alt at the same time.

If the Fw stays level, he will continue to gain, until he has to pull up or climb to shoot, that's when you start a shallow dive and slight turn by rolling slightly to throw off his aim. Roll more if needed, but try not to lose too much alt. When you reach co-alt, level out and resume shallow climb with a higher energy difference than before. If he's really aggresive, he'll dive for speed when you dive. Stay level with a slight climb. The same situation will develope. Before long, he'll either be disadvantaged, or disengaged.

All this is dependent on how close he is to start and if you've gained enough alt on him while staying fast. If done correctly, the second time he comes after you will produce a lot bigger gain in energy. If something dosen't feel right, it probably ain't. This takes practice and knowing when to respond.


On the subject of dives, I was attacking a '44 P47 online last night in a 190A8. In level flight I was gaining slowly on the P47 then he nosed down and pulled away from me (admittedly slowly). When we levelled out again, I caught him and put a 30mm cannon round into his pit...which didn't kill the pilot.

So, from a position of similar e, he could pull away from me initially. Of course, we started off at about 3k so he didn't have many options available.


After all the to-do about the Mg 151/20, I would have thought the Mk 108 would have fallen out of favor. Instead of fixing it, maybe Oleg should have just added Mk 108's for the inboard guns as well, to satisfy the more arcade minded whiners among us. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Jagdklinger
09-03-2005, 04:42 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cajun76:
Depending on initial separation, he should have started a shallow high speed climb if he was far enough away, preferrably toward home. Fw's usually fall behind, and you've gained alt at the same time.

If the Fw stays level, he will continue to gain, until he has to pull up or climb to shoot, that's when you start a shallow dive and slight turn by rolling slightly to throw off his aim. Roll more if needed, but try not to lose too much alt. When you reach co-alt, level out and resume shallow climb with a higher energy difference than before. If he's really aggresive, he'll dive for speed when you dive. Stay level with a slight climb. The same situation will develope. Before long, he'll either be disadvantaged, or disengaged.

All this is dependent on how close he is to start and if you've gained enough alt on him while staying fast. If done correctly, the second time he comes after you will produce a lot bigger gain in energy. If something dosen't feel right, it probably ain't. This takes practice and knowing when to respond.[QUOTE]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif This is the sort of useful tactics and tips we need more of in GD (instead of red vs blue trolling contests)...

Vipez-
09-03-2005, 05:00 AM
This thread has my support http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Imho most important is to fix the poor zoom climb, and undermodelled dive acceleration.. I have no trouble leaving 109 behind in dive, but 190s will follow, which makes flying the Jug challenging at the moment . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
09-03-2005, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by Cajun76:
Depending on initial separation, he should have started a shallow high speed climb if he was far enough away, preferrably toward home. Fw's usually fall behind, and you've gained alt at the same time.

If the Fw stays level, he will continue to gain, until he has to pull up or climb to shoot, that's when you start a shallow dive and slight turn by rolling slightly to throw off his aim. Roll more if needed, but try not to lose too much alt. When you reach co-alt, level out and resume shallow climb with a higher energy difference than before. If he's really aggresive, he'll dive for speed when you dive. Stay level with a slight climb. The same situation will develope. Before long, he'll either be disadvantaged, or disengaged.

All this is dependent on how close he is to start and if you've gained enough alt on him while staying fast. If done correctly, the second time he comes after you will produce a lot bigger gain in energy. If something dosen't feel right, it probably ain't. This takes practice and knowing when to respond.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> On the subject of dives, I was attacking a '44 P47 online last night in a 190A8. In level flight I was gaining slowly on the P47 then he nosed down and pulled away from me (admittedly slowly). When we levelled out again, I caught him and put a 30mm cannon round into his pit...which didn't kill the pilot.

So, from a position of similar e, he could pull away from me initially. Of course, we started off at about 3k so he didn't have many options available.


After all the to-do about the Mg 151/20, I would have thought the Mk 108 would have fallen out of favor. Instead of fixing it, maybe Oleg should have just added Mk 108's for the inboard guns as well, to satisfy the more arcade minded whiners among us. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As you will be well aware, Cajun, context is everything so let me fill in the gap for you. I was carrying the heavy weaponry as my mission objective was to prevent bombers from reaching their target and, seeing as your average B25 sniper can take out a 190 engine or pilot with a miniscule burst, it makes sense to spend as little time in their cone of fire as possible. i.e. 108s are a prefered loadout. The P47 making a run for it just happened to be icing on the cake of a fruitful mission http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'd like to have kept this as a reasonably 'no red vs blue' discussion and didn't wish to drag this off on an 'attack the whiner' slant, but seeing as you obviously want to, don't forget that Oleg has already pointed out who has whined 'arcade style non-historical' weapons into the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Your anti FW tactics are interesting and I shall take note because it's always best to know what your enemy might try to pull off. In that instance, I'd personally disengage and request someone at alt to come and drop them for me. If available, of course.

Ta,
Norris

Cajun76
09-03-2005, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:

As you will be well aware, Cajun, context is everything so let me fill in the gap for you. I was carrying the heavy weaponry as my mission objective was to prevent bombers from reaching their target and, seeing as your average B25 sniper can take out a 190 engine or pilot with a miniscule burst, it makes sense to spend as little time in their cone of fire as possible. i.e. 108s are a prefered loadout. The P47 making a run for it just happened to be icing on the cake of a fruitful mission http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'd like to have kept this as a reasonably 'no red vs blue' discussion and didn't wish to drag this off on an 'attack the whiner' slant, but seeing as you obviously want to, don't forget that Oleg has already pointed out who has whined 'arcade style non-historical' weapons into the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Your anti FW tactics are interesting and I shall take note because it's always best to know what your enemy might try to pull off. In that instance, I'd personally disengage and request someone at alt to come and drop them for me. If available, of course.

Ta,
Norris


Wow, you quoted me, and then wrote my name: must be taking me to task. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I thought this was reasonable. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I mentioned not 'red' nor 'blue' in my post. Indeed, there were 'reds' asking for the MG 151/20 fix as well. I see just as many sporting Mk 108's now as I did before the fix, go figure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif And yes, you still seem to bring up the .50's (I knew you would before I ever hit Post Now) and Oleg's way of saving face. With all the requests over the years to change this and that, some of it legit, others not, he decided on this one thing to go against his high standards. I think not. People will see what they want to see though, no matter what, like your reference to 'red' and 'blue' when there was none.

As far as tactics, the guy in trouble probably called for help before you, and he's in a position to counter attack. Going from near certain destruction to a superior position is the name of the game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif It could very well be you were too close for this particular tactic to work for him. Learning to gauge when your going to lose the advantge before it actually happens can allow you to retain that extra energy to survive and eventually reverse the situation.

NorrisMcWhirter
09-03-2005, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Cajun76:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:

As you will be well aware, Cajun, context is everything so let me fill in the gap for you. I was carrying the heavy weaponry as my mission objective was to prevent bombers from reaching their target and, seeing as your average B25 sniper can take out a 190 engine or pilot with a miniscule burst, it makes sense to spend as little time in their cone of fire as possible. i.e. 108s are a prefered loadout. The P47 making a run for it just happened to be icing on the cake of a fruitful mission http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'd like to have kept this as a reasonably 'no red vs blue' discussion and didn't wish to drag this off on an 'attack the whiner' slant, but seeing as you obviously want to, don't forget that Oleg has already pointed out who has whined 'arcade style non-historical' weapons into the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Your anti FW tactics are interesting and I shall take note because it's always best to know what your enemy might try to pull off. In that instance, I'd personally disengage and request someone at alt to come and drop them for me. If available, of course.

Ta,
Norris


Wow, you quoted me, and then wrote my name: must be taking me to task. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I thought this was reasonable. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I mentioned not 'red' nor 'blue' in my post. Indeed, there were 'reds' asking for the MG 151/20 fix as well. I see just as many sporting Mk 108's now as I did before the fix, go figure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif And yes, you still seem to bring up the .50's (I knew you would before I ever hit Post Now) and Oleg's way of saving face. With all the requests over the years to change this and that, some of it legit, others not, he decided on this one thing to go against his high standards. I think not. People will see what they want to see though, no matter what, like your reference to 'red' and 'blue' when there was none.

As far as tactics, the guy in trouble probably called for help before you, and he's in a position to counter attack. Going from near certain destruction to a superior position is the name of the game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif It could very well be you were too close for this particular tactic to work for him. Learning to gauge when your going to lose the advantge before it actually happens can allow you to retain that extra energy to survive and eventually reverse the situation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think we both know what the score is, Cajun; the jibe about taking the 108s was quite obvious so please don't try to weedle out of it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I was merely responding to it - if you had said nothing of it, I wouldn't have had to have mentioned Oleg's comment. Now, you do mention that reds wanted the 151/20 fixed and that was correct. However, you failed to mention that their numbers were few and that the whining about it after it has been fixed has been..let's say...more than inconsiderable.

Now, back to the subject at hand - yes, you're quite correct but losing the advantage to a jug doesn't mean it's all over as the 190 will outrun it anyway and, unless you are in a straight 1 on 1, there is no problem.

My real point was that people say the P47 doesn't outdive a 190 but I'm saying that we started off with similar e and it did outdive it.

Ta,
Norris

BSS_CUDA
09-03-2005, 02:01 PM
well the problem with the P-47 with almost M performance is the Lufty will be whining wanting you to prove that it exisited just like they did with the L-Late http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif