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kevinmcnally
05-12-2006, 08:41 PM
Can anyone give me any pointers as to how to properly land the P-40 without doing a nose over into the ground. I'm not sure which version of the plane it is other than its the second plane you fly in the "Pilot Career" mode. I have yet to keep the darn thing upright after many otherwise successful missions. I am using a Saitek X52 that I've had for about 5 months....I love it! Thanks in advance for your help!

danjama
05-12-2006, 09:04 PM
flare at around 170/160kmh

careful of torque

MadRuski
05-12-2006, 09:07 PM
if u land one plane... then u no how to land them all, u have to be around 150 - 200 KM/H wen u hit the ground, i land without flaps, u can use flaps at the lowest oppening if u want, try not to use the brake system to much, as it makes ur plane flip, so just the 1 metre before u hit the ground, open flaps fully.

I450IVex
05-12-2006, 09:15 PM
Hit the ground on two wheels at around 160km.
kill the power and pitch as soon as your wheels touch, when you hit the breaks pull back on the stick, because over 100k's it will go nose over.

3 point landing is for show offs and requires a much more subtle, and measured approach.

the P-40 is port side heavy at low speed and will dip the wing very suddenly.

it's also a nasty bouncer if you too fast or coming in from too high.

heywooood
05-13-2006, 10:20 AM
always the advantage of sim flying is that you dont die when you f up....

just practice flying with the flaps extended and the gear down at just above stall speed - thats the slowest speed you can fly at before you fall.

when you can control the airplane at this minimal speed - then just take that experience over to the airfield and fly it down to the foot of the runway...simple.

Most new guys try to go from full throttle to the deck and landing without properly reducing speed on the approach - approaches and approach speed (slowing) are vital to safe landing -

Reduce to idle - fly down to approx 500' alt - do a base circuit - thats like a lap around the field...lower the flaps in stages as your airspeed drops until you are at your practised minimum airspeed (see above) with full flaps and gear extended you want to be lined up on final approach about 250' feet in the air and the same distance from the foot of the strip.

fly it down to the strip - flare (pull up slightly) and cut power to nil slowly.

smooth - not jerky - "they can teach monkeys to fly better than that"

TC_Stele
05-13-2006, 10:22 AM
Three pointers are hard with the P-40 since the landing gear is high. I usually land the two wheels first with the body of the plane parallel to the ground and continue a long roll until eventually the back of the plane glides down.

horseback
05-13-2006, 11:32 AM
I'm on a P-40E career on the Leningrad map now, myself. This is how I do it:

Get lined up (at least within 15 degrees of your landing strip) approximately 6-7km from the strip, altitude around 450m, flying at 300kph or less. I recommend 100% prop pitch & about 40% throttle; at these speeds, you get a quicker accel/decel response with 100% PP and just working your throttle.

As you descend, add flaps and decrease throttle; I find that lining the gunsight pipper on the patch of ground just in front of the landing strip gets me at about the right place to flare, about 50-100m short of the strip and around 30m alt, with 20% throttle and around 180kph of airspeed.

Somewhere before that, it would be a good idea to deploy your landing gear.

Anyway, at that point, cut your throttle and raise the nose just a bit, and you should settle down nicely. Raise your flaps as soon as you make contact, and keep the stick back (make sure your tailwheel is still locked) and straight. Gently apply brakes, if you have them assigned to an axis, or tap the button assigned to brakes to slow down.

I find that the hardest part is getting slowed and down to altitude; generally, you'll find that 100% prop pitch and dropping your throttle are your best tools for this. Fly to the last waypoint, fly towards the strip to make sure you can line it up (and doofus that I am, I need to note the course), and then circle back around to that last waypoint to kill your remaining excess speed and altitude. You're now at the right point and speed to begin your landing approach.

Hope this helps.

cheers

horseback

PBNA-Boosher
05-13-2006, 03:05 PM
As with any plane: nice, easy final, small descent rate. Keep power in to steady you at 190 kph. In a flare you'll be able to kill the speed. Don't forget to throw in heavy up trim. Radiators full out, flaps full down, gear down, lock tailwheel.

SithSpeeder
05-13-2006, 03:07 PM
Kev--

Are you nosing over immediately upon touching the ground, after rolling for a bit, or right near the end when you are at 30-50 kmh?

My first inclination is that you are applying the brakes too hard and fast. Tap them repeatedly when moving fast. Once you are below takeoff speed, you can pull back fully on your stick and tap them a bit harder/more often (but still should not just jam them on).

I have toe brakes on rudder pedals so I have kinda forgot what it's like to use the "B" key anymore. The rudder pedal brakes also have a curve associated with them (so they are not all on or all off, but graduated).

* _54th_Speeder *

AlGroover
05-13-2006, 10:16 PM
You can also try sideslipping to kill excess speed on approach. Retract flaps as soon as you are down, pull back on the stick and only pulse the brakes.

WarWolfe_1
05-14-2006, 12:15 AM
I put flaps at take off, slow to about 90mph, then as landing gear touch down I go to full flaps (Landing). There after I pulse breaks.

heywooood
05-14-2006, 10:36 AM
so, newguy...Kevin...did any of this help....help?


and welcome to the jungle...we got fun n games.

WTE_Galway
05-14-2006, 06:00 PM
do you have proportional brakes or a key ?

if its a key you need to tap it as pointed out in the post above


also a general landing point .. once you are over the threshold at a sane airspeed and height just reduce throttle and try to reach the end of the runway without landing .. imagine you want to fly the full length of the runway at almost no throttle without touching it ... this will usually gove a nice 3 pointer in most planes

mandrill7
05-14-2006, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by MadRuski:
if u land one plane... then u no how to land them all

I always find a heckuva difference landing a heavy, nose-weighted beast like the Mossie and a lightweight bouncer like the Spit. For me it means almost a complete difference in power control and approach.

NonWonderDog
05-14-2006, 07:39 PM
I've just got a few general tips:

DO use 100% rpm during landing, no matter what plane you are in. In a Me-109 it's even recommended to switch to manual prop control and actively maintain a high rpm. Just because the engine is louder doesn't mean it's pulling you forward harder. High rpm results in more drag and better throttle response, both of which are needed in abundance during landing.

DO NOT relax back pressure on the stick when the tail wheel is on the ground. This goes double during three-point landings. The only time you should ever NOT be holding the stick all the way back is when taxiing in a tailwind. You can be inattentive to this in a tricycle gear plane without incident, but if you let go of the stick in a taildragger you will lose at least some directional control and stand a much better chance of either ground looping, striking the prop, or both.

DO NOT apply full brake pressure. There's no need to, and you'll probably end up standing on your nose anyway. If you're using the keyboard for brakes this means you have to tap the "B" key in order to slow down.

Three-point landings are standard procedure for most taildraggers, and I assume that includes fighters. Don't try to bring the plane in nose-high, though -- fly down into ground effect at minimum speed, run the throttle back to idle, and ease back on the stick until the plane settles down onto the runway by itself. It's only slightly harder than it sounds.

Wheel landings are more difficult, as they require absolute minimum sink rate. Aim for a 3 degree glideslope when attempting a wheel landing. Fly the plane into ground effect, cut throttle, push the mains (gently!) onto the ground, and hold the tail off the ground until it settles by itself. Once the plane settles, and not until it settles, pull all the way back on the stick to keep the tail on the ground. Wheel landings are most useful when there are crosswinds or gusts, as the higher landing speed diminishes their effect somewhat.

DON'T fly too slow when attempting a wheel landing, however. This is a common rookie mistake. If you're carrying too little speed to maintain a level attitude and you touch down too hard, the plane will bounce and you'll probably porpoise down the runway. It's pretty simple, actually: the center of gravity is behind the main gear, so if the mains hit the ground heavily the plane will rotate backwards, increasing the angle of attack and flinging you back into the air. You want to either be so slow that the plane will not lift off the ground when the tailwheel is down (3-point landing) or you want to be fast enough that you can maintain a level attitude and touch down gently (wheel landing). The middle ground is what causes problems.

Chuck_Older
05-15-2006, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by kevinmcnally:
Can anyone give me any pointers as to how to properly land the P-40 without doing a nose over into the ground. I'm not sure which version of the plane it is other than its the second plane you fly in the "Pilot Career" mode. I have yet to keep the darn thing upright after many otherwise successful missions. I am using a Saitek X52 that I've had for about 5 months....I love it! Thanks in advance for your help!

Hi Kevin

Quick questions for you-

How many guns are in the wings of your P-40? Easy to tell in this sim which "side" of the P-40 family you're driving

P-40B and C, H-81A-2 all have two guns in each wing. (Two are in the nose)

All the rest have 3 guns in each wing, none in the nose


My next question is: which version of the sim are you flying? It matters. The "early" P-40s (B C and H81A-2) had some 'waddle' issues while taxiing in earlier versions of the sim

the latest versions addressed this, although the short fuselage of early marks does promote some wander


next question: can you open the cockpit?

Last question: do you see nose gund fire when you pull the trigger?


My technique for landing any tail dragger in the sim that I have trouble with:

keep the tail up until you're quite slow. Fly the plane as long as you can- don't just be 'along for the ride'

In general, players seem to land at speeds to great for comfort. The P-40 should be less than 100mph indicated. More like 85 mph at touchdown

I disagree that flaps are not needed. You want to increase your lift while allowing the plane to slow down

One thing you might try is to fly at 10,000 feet,a dn then slow down as much as you can without stalling or spinning. Next, lower one 'notch' of flaps, and see how slow you can go while retaining full control of the plane. Note the slowest speed you can attain while maintaining full control. repeat this for each flap position

Repeat this test for gear down

repeat this test again, for gear down and flap position

Sorta-kinda how they really find out how to tell how slow you can go to land http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm comfy landing a P-40B C or H81A-2 at about 90 MPH indicated. I think that's too fast actually but in this sim I can get away with it

Capt.LoneRanger
05-15-2006, 08:58 AM
Actually landing the P40 is not as difficult as moving it on the ground - just remember to NOT hit the brakes and hold them. The P40s engines are too heavy - if you brake to hard, you'll burry your nose in the runway. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

kevinmcnally
05-17-2006, 09:02 PM
My apologies to you and the rest of the folks who gave me advice on this. I meant to test it out and respond much sooner...unplanned roadtrip came up. Anyway, I think I'm getting the hang of it. Apparently, I was coming in way too hot and my angle of descent was too great. I had gotten away with this bad behavior in other aircraft (at the same skill level), I guess the P-40 makes you do it right. Many thanks to you and the rest of the crew for being sooooo helpful. I just retired from a long career with the feds so maybe I will finally have enough time to apply myself as I should have been all along. This IL2 sim is addictive and fun as heck! Thanks again!!



Originally posted by heywooood:
so, newguy...Kevin...did any of this help....help?


and welcome to the jungle...we got fun n games.

Capt.LoneRanger
05-18-2006, 03:18 AM
Yes, the P40 is a plane with some flaws, but it's one of the most rewarding planes, once you have some practice.

If you fly online on HL, don't hesitate to drop me a message and maybe we can fly a bit together. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

AVGWarhawk
05-18-2006, 10:12 AM
The P-40 is my favorite plane in the game. It is not the fastest but flown correctly, it can be quite satifying! Another way to land. Hit the CTRL and E keys repeatedly. Where you chute lands you is always a great landing in a P-40 or any other plane for that matter. Besides, the ground crew will give you another one without argument.

Chuck_Older
05-18-2006, 04:52 PM
I think the early marks P-40 are some of the sweetest FMs in the sim. Certainly not over-modelled I should think, but they feel to me as if my inputs produce the crisp reactions I expect of a fighter.

I havent posted a pic in a long time

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/FirstShark.jpg