PDA

View Full Version : corsair 101?



llama_thumper
02-01-2007, 04:05 PM
elo all...

was wondering if anyone can give me any hints on flying the corsair, mainly vs jap. planes?

is it also boom and zoom? what are the main things to take into account (easy spins?)? why would you choose the corsair over other types of aircraft, say if you were up against Zeros?

llama_thumper
02-01-2007, 04:05 PM
elo all...

was wondering if anyone can give me any hints on flying the corsair, mainly vs jap. planes?

is it also boom and zoom? what are the main things to take into account (easy spins?)? why would you choose the corsair over other types of aircraft, say if you were up against Zeros?

BlitzPig_DDT
02-01-2007, 04:16 PM
From an ingame perspective - the reason you would choose a Corsair over other types is because it has nearly no drag and otherworldly energy retention while having no vices of any kind (to speak of).

More explicitly - the Hellcat is too slow and snap spins unbelievably easily (when it pretty much shouldn't *at all*), and has worse visibility over the nose (which is bass-ackwards), and, inexplicably, is more difficult to land on a carrier (not that it's hard, just more so, which is also backwards)

- The Wildcat is dead meat, it's just too slow and lumbering when faced with Zeros (and this is historically accurate). It's only chance is in team tactics, preferably with the bounce.

The other planes are Army or Marine planes, and since you ask here, I'm assuming you mean Naval stuff.

However.... the P-39 is great downlow, just don't spin it and fly it like you would any other plane - fast.

The P-47 is superb in ground attack and has the juice to pull away from anything the Japanese *Navy* has to offer.

The P-51 is another great choice, flys like a less turn-able F4U. Fast as all get out, great in zoom climbs, no altitude issues (like the P-39) and at lower altitudes is faster than the Jug. Fly both high and fast and keep them there.

I can't speak on the P-38, that's not my kind of plane.


As for tactics, you're dealing with an enemy that (speaking of Zero's that is) is slower than you, but can out climb you, and at lower speeds, HANDILY out turn you, and has the punch to take you down pretty quickly.

It's weaknesses are speed, altitude performance, and handling at high speeds.

You want to get and stay above them if you can. You want to keep your speed up over 250mph (Indicated) if you can. Over this speed his controls should be pretty stiff, and you'll be better able to cut an run if needed. The Army fighters will be better in this regard.

Fly it like the Germans have to fly against the VVS - come out of the sun, look for surprise, choose your battles, go for slashing attacks, and as mentioned, keep your speed high, and try to stay above them in a superior energy state.

It's not easy, and even less easy to pick up from description. Look for a BlitzPig server on HL and pop in sometime. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (we don't always fly PTO, and not always props, but the principles still apply)

M2morris
02-01-2007, 06:32 PM
Here's a video I found a while back, might help you a little bit.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1056703518162002454&q=ww2&pl=true
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/planegeek/Corsair_animatedgif.gif

VW-IceFire
02-01-2007, 07:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by llama_thumper:
elo all...

was wondering if anyone can give me any hints on flying the corsair, mainly vs jap. planes?

is it also boom and zoom? what are the main things to take into account (easy spins?)? why would you choose the corsair over other types of aircraft, say if you were up against Zeros? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You've got a huge speed and weight advantage over the Zero. Use it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Boom and zoom passes with the occasional sharp break turn to get angle and deflection shots into a Zero but never fight them in the horizontal.

The Corsair is also ideal as a fighter-bomber platform because of its incredible bomb and rocket loadout options.

stansdds
02-02-2007, 04:22 AM
The Corsair is not a turn fighter, but is much better as an energy fighter (boom and zoom). If you enter a turning fight, you better get your shots in before you make one full (360 degree) turn, otherwise you will lose any advantage and become a target.

The Corsair is a great fighter-bomber, the -1C (armed with four 20mm cannons) and -1D are capable of lifting up to 3000 pounds of bombs as well has eight 5 inch HVAR's.

The downsides to the Corsair are the poor visibility over the nose, especially on the ground and the low speed stall tendency coupled with the torque from the engine. But once you master the Corsair you will appreciate its strong points and it can quickly become a favorite ride.

BlitzPig_DDT
02-03-2007, 01:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stansdds:
The Corsair is not a turn fighter, but is much better as an energy fighter (boom and zoom). If you enter a turning fight, you better get your shots in before you make one full (360 degree) turn, otherwise you will lose any advantage and become a target.

The Corsair is a great fighter-bomber, the -1C (armed with four 20mm cannons) and -1D are capable of lifting up to 3000 pounds of bombs as well has eight 5 inch HVAR's.

The downsides to the Corsair are the poor visibility over the nose, especially on the ground and the low speed stall tendency coupled with the torque from the engine. But once you master the Corsair you will appreciate its strong points and it can quickly become a favorite ride. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In real life, perhaps. But in game the f4u has unbelivable visibility over the nose (truly, it's impossible to beleive they could have given it so much, or to believe that it's even close to realistic), *and* is better at turn fighting than the Hellcat (might as well give it hover engines too).

Avont29
02-03-2007, 01:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
From an ingame perspective - the reason you would choose a Corsair over other types is because it has nearly no drag and otherworldly energy retention while having no vices of any kind (to speak of).

More explicitly - the Hellcat is too slow and snap spins unbelievably easily (when it pretty much shouldn't *at all*), and has worse visibility over the nose (which is bass-ackwards), and, inexplicably, is more difficult to land on a carrier (not that it's hard, just more so, which is also backwards)

- The Wildcat is dead meat, it's just too slow and lumbering when faced with Zeros (and this is historically accurate). It's only chance is in team tactics, preferably with the bounce.

The other planes are Army or Marine planes, and since you ask here, I'm assuming you mean Naval stuff.

However.... the P-39 is great downlow, just don't spin it and fly it like you would any other plane - fast.

The P-47 is superb in ground attack and has the juice to pull away from anything the Japanese *Navy* has to offer.

The P-51 is another great choice, flys like a less turn-able F4U. Fast as all get out, great in zoom climbs, no altitude issues (like the P-39) and at lower altitudes is faster than the Jug. Fly both high and fast and keep them there.

I can't speak on the P-38, that's not my kind of plane.


As for tactics, you're dealing with an enemy that (speaking of Zero's that is) is slower than you, but can out climb you, and at lower speeds, HANDILY out turn you, and has the punch to take you down pretty quickly.

It's weaknesses are speed, altitude performance, and handling at high speeds.

You want to get and stay above them if you can. You want to keep your speed up over 250mph (Indicated) if you can. Over this speed his controls should be pretty stiff, and you'll be better able to cut an run if needed. The Army fighters will be better in this regard.

Fly it like the Germans have to fly against the VVS - come out of the sun, look for surprise, choose your battles, go for slashing attacks, and as mentioned, keep your speed high, and try to stay above them in a superior energy state.

It's not easy, and even less easy to pick up from description. Look for a BlitzPig server on HL and pop in sometime. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (we don't always fly PTO, and not always props, but the principles still apply) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol? what?? ok he's right about something, but not all


first of all, wildcat is a GOOD plane against a jap plane, just got to know what your doing lol. wildcat has a strong armor plate, 4 .50 cal guns, ok range, all you gotta do is boom and zoom it, come in high, see a jap plane down low, dive down ****** him to death pull back up to alt, , theres no way the zero or ki or wahtever will be able to climb all the way up there with you if they do, they'll be at stalling speeds, and that just makes the kill easier. wildcats can climb ok, just can't turn, espcially when the zero or ki or whatever turns an tries to drag you down into a turn fight. dont fall for that bulls**t, just as soon as he turns climb back up, that way you keep energy , while the dumb jap loses all his energy, and just keep b&zing it, trust me it works, i've done it so many times. plus, if you have complex engine management, prop pitch and mixer, and radiator will help you a lot. my squad is MCVG-2 , pm me if your interested in learning and talking. i can teach you a lot..espcially if you like flying the corsair, cause thats one of the main planes MCVG-2 flies.



by the way, there are ways to turn with greater turning planes in a corsair, wildcat of hellcat, etc. but i dont recommend it , unless your an expert or something i dunno. but you'd have to use airbrake, throttle and flaps in the right combination to do it, but i dont do it, seeing as i lose all my speed and energy for that matter.

VW-IceFire
02-03-2007, 06:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stansdds:
The Corsair is not a turn fighter, but is much better as an energy fighter (boom and zoom). If you enter a turning fight, you better get your shots in before you make one full (360 degree) turn, otherwise you will lose any advantage and become a target.

The Corsair is a great fighter-bomber, the -1C (armed with four 20mm cannons) and -1D are capable of lifting up to 3000 pounds of bombs as well has eight 5 inch HVAR's.

The downsides to the Corsair are the poor visibility over the nose, especially on the ground and the low speed stall tendency coupled with the torque from the engine. But once you master the Corsair you will appreciate its strong points and it can quickly become a favorite ride. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In real life, perhaps. But in game the f4u has unbelivable visibility over the nose (truly, it's impossible to beleive they could have given it so much, or to believe that it's even close to realistic), *and* is better at turn fighting than the Hellcat (might as well give it hover engines too). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hrrmm....Hellcat is still the better turn fighter...even if its top speed is generally undermodeled. The visibility thing is an interesting thing because the USN thought that the Corsairs view out the front was bad...but give them a FW199A-5 and in the test they report that its view out the front is also sub par and worse than the Corsair. Yet read other reports about the FW190A and you hear about how nice the forward view is.

Thats a very relative report I think. Consider that the points of comparison are the F4F Wildcat and F6F Hellcat which have no nose. Even the F2A has no nose to speak of in comparison.

roybaty
02-03-2007, 06:58 PM
Excellent http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif vids!

Hmmm I remember reading about one of Ira Kepford's battles against multiple Zekes. He went into a tight turn at high speed and wavetop altitude. Zeke caught at wingtip on the water, cartwheeled and disintegrated.

Makes me think high speed turning performance of the Corsair was pretty good.

BlitzPig_DDT
02-03-2007, 08:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Hrrmm....Hellcat is still the better turn fighter...even if its top speed is generally undermodeled. The visibility thing is an interesting thing because the USN thought that the Corsairs view out the front was bad...but give them a FW199A-5 and in the test they report that its view out the front is also sub par and worse than the Corsair. Yet read other reports about the FW190A and you hear about how nice the forward view is.

Thats a very relative report I think. Consider that the points of comparison are the F4F Wildcat and F6F Hellcat which have no nose. Even the F2A has no nose to speak of in comparison. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it's NOT the better turn fighter in this game. The 1D has been given the same turn rate as the F6F (which is ridiculous), and the 1A is almost identical. AND, just as important, you can wrench it hard and if it does stall, it's gentle with lots of warning, whereas the F6F will snap spin if you blink hard (using the same stick and stick settings).

Furthermore, the reason the F6F is too slow is that drag chute it's pulling. This further reduces it's turn capabilities as it can't recover it's speed.

All those add up to a sham. The F6F flew like a trainer with a gentle stall and was hard to spin. Had lower stall speed than the f4u, and could easily hand it it's arse in a turn fight. While at altitude they were basically the same (reaching about the same 400mph speed).

And regarding vis, the f4u has a seat jack because it needs it. It must come in, in a crazy turn pattern because you can't see over the nose and it's the only way to see the LSO. It took over a year and the British to get it carrier qualified. The Hellcat was a Navy pilot's dream. It had vis so good it didn't need that turning pattern nonsense and didn't even need a seat jack.

Totally bass-ackwards from what we have in game.

BlitzPig_DDT
02-03-2007, 10:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Avont29:
lol? what?? ok he's right about something, but not all


first of all, wildcat is a GOOD plane against a jap plane, just got to know what your doing lol. wildcat has a strong armor plate, 4 .50 cal guns, ok range, all you gotta do is boom and zoom it, come in high, see a jap plane down low, dive down ****** him to death pull back up to alt, , theres no way the zero or ki or wahtever will be able to climb all the way up there with you if they do, they'll be at stalling speeds, and that just makes the kill easier. wildcats can climb ok, just can't turn, espcially when the zero or ki or whatever turns an tries to drag you down into a turn fight. dont fall for that bulls**t, just as soon as he turns climb back up, that way you keep energy , while the dumb jap loses all his energy, and just keep b&zing it, trust me it works, i've done it so many times. plus, if you have complex engine management, prop pitch and mixer, and radiator will help you a lot. my squad is MCVG-2 , pm me if your interested in learning and talking. i can teach you a lot..espcially if you like flying the corsair, cause thats one of the main planes MCVG-2 flies. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are talking about pie in the sky ideal text book situations. And you're also stating the obvious. Might as well tells us air is clear.

Additionally, you show that you don't *really* know all that much of what you're talking about, despite the ego injected in your post.

The Zero can out climb you, it can out run you, it can out turn you, and it can out gun you. The only thing it can't do is outdive you (or turn at high speeds). US Navy leadership said the if an F4F met a Zero 1v1, the Wildcat was outnumbered.

A good Zero pilot won't let you get that alt advantage. A good Zero pilot will turn the tables and equalize the energy advantage if you try to pull of more than one pass. A good Zero pilot will not let you get away, if you don't have good team mates and at least even numbers and enough alt to run for ship AAA, you are hosed.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">by the way, there are ways to turn with greater turning planes in a corsair, wildcat of hellcat, etc. but i dont recommend it , unless your an expert or something i dunno. but you'd have to use airbrake, throttle and flaps in the right combination to do it, but i dont do it, seeing as i lose all my speed and energy for that matter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're talking about use of energy. It requires the enemy to be going much faster. It's a rare situation, particulary when the USN is fighting the IJN. And it doesn't require flaps. And very few planes in the game actually have airbrakes.

Using flaps is an old "trick" to decrease turn radius by increasing the lift of the wing. Again, "water is wet". Of course it also increases turn times often as you are below ideal turn speed, and as noted, kills your speed.

BillyTheKid_22
02-04-2007, 12:45 PM
http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/allies/us/cleaverkepo.jpg


Corsair 101!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jpatrick62
02-06-2007, 02:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The F6F flew like a trainer with a gentle stall and was hard to spin. Had lower stall speed than the f4u, and could easily hand it it's arse in a turn fight. While at altitude they were basically the same (reaching about the same 400mph speed). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In actual tests done at Patuxent Naval Air Station during he war, the Hellcat never achieved 400 mph, and was slower at all altiudes than both the Corsair and FW190. Furthermore, it had an inferior climb to those both as well. As for turning, the Hellcat was a better slow speed turner due to lower wing loading than the Corsair, which was in turn a better turner at low speeds than the FW190. For roll rate, also an important feature of manuverability, the FW190 and F4u handily outclassed the F6F. In the end, the test pilots of that time rated the F4U ahead of the F6f as a fighter, and rated them both ahead of the Fw190 being tested. It was imporant to know that the FW190 being tested was a Fw190-5A model, not the later Doras.

BlitzPig_DDT
02-06-2007, 10:19 PM
The f4u rolled faster than the Hellcat, but it did not "outclass it".

The F6F DID fly 400mph, and not even a specially prepped example was necessary to do it. But hell, who believes the test pilot who flew both constantly testing against one another in order to develop the type? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The f4u had a nasty stall issue that required a wing modification (with a spoiler strip) which further increased stall speed. Combined with it's total lack of over the nose visibility (IRL, totally unlike in this game), it was not very well suited to carrier ops. It coudl do it, but only with convoluted methods cooked up just for it. It's why it killed so many rookies.

When a plane gets a nickname for killing inexperienced pilots, it's NOT a good thing.

llama_thumper
05-07-2007, 03:31 PM
thx for all the input!

SirPapps
05-07-2007, 06:00 PM
I don't know about flying the F4U in game, but I know a lot about the plane.

1) Speed brakes - use em when necessary... this can really make other planes overshoot yours.
2) Dive - reduce prop pitch percentage to about 85% since the prop seems to act as a dive break - not good if you want to go fast in a dive.
3) in combat, keep the pitch at 100% (unless as mentioned above) in a dive
4) cycling those huge slotted flaps in and out of combat position during maneuvers can really help.
5) don't shoot past 0.25 (250 m) because going any further is sniping and those 50 cals wont be doing all that much damage out that far anyway. most people i see seem to converge their 6x 50's at about 180m the most.
5) Apparently, the Ki-84's going to outclass you a lot. this F4U is a Boom and Zoomer and should be used as such. Better so with good wingman tactics.

hope that helps

VW-IceFire
05-07-2007, 06:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
The f4u rolled faster than the Hellcat, but it did not "outclass it".

The F6F DID fly 400mph, and not even a specially prepped example was necessary to do it. But hell, who believes the test pilot who flew both constantly testing against one another in order to develop the type? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The f4u had a nasty stall issue that required a wing modification (with a spoiler strip) which further increased stall speed. Combined with it's total lack of over the nose visibility (IRL, totally unlike in this game), it was not very well suited to carrier ops. It coudl do it, but only with convoluted methods cooked up just for it. It's why it killed so many rookies.

When a plane gets a nickname for killing inexperienced pilots, it's NOT a good thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Disagree above about in-game turning but I doubt we'll ever reach a consensus there.

Visibility over the nose was rated poor by the USN. Look what they are comparing it to...the Hellcat and the Wildcat which have unbelievable over the nose visibility. Even the Buffalo has good over hte nose visibility. The Corsair sucks when you compare those. Versus other planes that we have available...not as much...but its less of an issue with a big airstrip...and much more of a problem when your airstrip is the size of a carrier deck.

If I remember right...the FW190A-5 that the USN tested and reported on in comparison to the Corsair and Hellcat suggested that the Hellcat had far better forward visibility but that the FW190 and Corsair were in similar categories for forward visibility.

It's all relative. I think the USN had much higher standards than the other services for things like stall speeds, stall behavior, and visibility over the nose. Probably for good reason. Not many other naval services with their own fighter development either...the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm used mostly land based fighters that were modified for naval use and...Corsairs.