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faustnik
11-03-2006, 10:43 AM
Well, Junior, aka MiniFaust, flew with the squad last night and he is hooked on IL-2. We let him man the gunner positions on the B-25 and IL-2 for a couple missions and then he flew a Zero for mission number three. He had a heck of a time taking of and landing but, he got through the flight, even fired a few shots.

Anyway, I've been doing this too long to have a grasp of what the best starter plane is? Maybe the P-39 for take-off and landing? The Spit has forgiving handeling but, landing are tough? Bf109G2 maybe?

He's 11 and, of course, tends to overcontrol. Any suggestions for n00b training?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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faustnik
11-03-2006, 10:43 AM
Well, Junior, aka MiniFaust, flew with the squad last night and he is hooked on IL-2. We let him man the gunner positions on the B-25 and IL-2 for a couple missions and then he flew a Zero for mission number three. He had a heck of a time taking of and landing but, he got through the flight, even fired a few shots.

Anyway, I've been doing this too long to have a grasp of what the best starter plane is? Maybe the P-39 for take-off and landing? The Spit has forgiving handeling but, landing are tough? Bf109G2 maybe?

He's 11 and, of course, tends to overcontrol. Any suggestions for n00b training?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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StG2_Schlachter
11-03-2006, 10:52 AM
The P-39 is very sensitive to overcontrolling.

The Il-2 seems to be a good choice. Not too fast, slow rate of role but not sluggish. A very stable plane with no real need to trim and a great gun platform.

The Ki-43 is a good choice, too. You really have to try hard to make this plane stall. Gunnery is tricky, but the peashooters on this plane can make you a marksman with practice.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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fighter_966
11-03-2006, 10:54 AM
Bf109 is good to start .I teach one noob with It
and Lan connection.Correct his faults as you go
the best way to teach is to go 1versus1 and as you are more experienced , you can play squad leader.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Brain32
11-03-2006, 10:55 AM
P38 is IMO very easy to land...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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mynameisroland
11-03-2006, 11:02 AM
La5FN the ultimate beginners plane mate.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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faustnik
11-03-2006, 11:03 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. The P-39 and P-38 are great for takeoff and landing but, not so easy in the air.

I like the IL-2 idea. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I've never run a LAN mission before. Is it hard to set up?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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F6_Ace
11-03-2006, 11:07 AM
P38 lands like it fell from a great height onto a trampoline, in my opinion.

I'd suggest the Spitfire. Not too fast, pretty stable. Pretty hard to do anything nasty in. Or the Zero. Or La5FN.

I don't think LAN hosting is hard at all but I've not had a go. When I did look at it, I think you just go into the hosting menu on the GUI and select a mission. Other machines search for a local network game<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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HelSqnProtos
11-03-2006, 11:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Any suggestions for n00b training? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just give him the same plane you fly. There is no bigger noobship than your fw. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Saburo_0
11-03-2006, 11:08 AM
IL2 IMO.

Built to be easy to fly.Tough so you don't die too quickly. You get to carry lots of stuff that goes BOOM!

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
11-03-2006, 11:09 AM
Hmm I always found the P-11 a very fun plane to get started with if your looking for basic flyability and a minimal learning curve.

Its amazing the kind of maneuvers you can pull in it.

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2006, 11:11 AM
Man, you guys are all wrong. The best plane to start a beginner on in this game is the P-40. Its stability and easy handling make it ideal, that and its low torque.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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crazyivan1970
11-03-2006, 11:12 AM
A6M5 IMO. or IL-2<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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F6_Ace
11-03-2006, 11:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Any suggestions for n00b training? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just give him the same plane you fly. There is no bigger noobship than your fw. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hang on - that's a Spit in your sig! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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MEGILE
11-03-2006, 11:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
Well, Junior, aka MiniFaust, flew with the squad last night and he is hooked on IL-2. We let him man the gunner positions on the B-25 and IL-2 for a couple missions and then he flew a Zero for mission number three. He had a heck of a time taking of and landing but, he got through the flight, even fired a few shots.

Anyway, I've been doing this too long to have a grasp of what the best starter plane is? Maybe the P-39 for take-off and landing? The Spit has forgiving handeling but, landing are tough? Bf109G2 maybe?

He's 11 and, of course, tends to overcontrol. Any suggestions for n00b training? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Get him in an Anton 8.. he will be pwning like the great monobrow himself, in 6 months.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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leitmotiv
11-03-2006, 11:13 AM
The ultimate beginner's airplane is the TB-3. You can't crash it unless you are dead set on crashing. Take it up and switch to exterior view, move the controls, and observe their operation. I learned to fly virtually with the I-153 and the I-16. Neither are particularly friendly airplanes, but they are simple, and, if you are learning to fly, you do not need to be fretting over managing systems. In my experience any 109 was the worst possible trainer, esp the late ones, because, to a beginner, it is absolutely diabolical. If you can manage an I-153 against a 109 (stay low and let him come to you), you are ready to advance to the first team.

SlickStick
11-03-2006, 11:16 AM
Another nice thing about the later Spitfires is automatic mix and supercharger control. The Spitfires can be tricky on landings as well with their narrow wheelbase. The full winged are more forgiving than the CW versions as well.

I also suggest the 1 vs 1 aspect. Train him as he is seeing you perform the moves with narration. He'll learn his timing better that way...when to start loop or break, when to dive away, etc.

My oldest, now 24, used to play Jane's WWII Fighters during the day while I was at work. He used to fly with a couple of AFJ pilots IIRC, as GreenHornet.

He is moving out this weekend and I'm building him a home PC as his interest in flying this game has been peaked with all of the flyables and amazing graphics. So, I'll be training him to this game soon as well. Good luck and have fun!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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faustnik
11-03-2006, 11:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Any suggestions for n00b training? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just give him the same plane you fly. There is no bigger noobship than your fw. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hang on - that's a Spit in your sig! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is funny. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Typical clown, all bark and no bite. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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faustnik
11-03-2006, 11:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlickStick:
Another nice thing about the later Spitfires is automatic mix and supercharger control. The Spitfires can be tricky on landings as well with their narrow wheelbase. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, the Spit is sooo tough to land and not ding the prop. I don't think it's the right plane for him. Although, if he can land that, he can land the rest.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Brain32
11-03-2006, 11:31 AM
Try also considering Tempest, quite easy to take off and land and very good in the air too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Although, I have ton's of hours in it so it may be because of that...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Top_Gun_1_0_1
11-03-2006, 11:38 AM
Gotta B the ME-262 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
It dosen't stall easily like some planes do http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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UberPickle
11-06-2006, 07:20 PM
I'd say the easy plane to teach dogfighting to a newbie with would be the swedish gladiator. If I want to teach a newbie how to blow **** up ATG, I get them into the cockpit of a IL-2.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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BillyTheKid_22
11-06-2006, 08:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
IAR 80/81 or B-239. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif wow!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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GerritJ9
11-08-2006, 03:24 AM
Try the PZL P-11 as basic trainer, and for advanced the B-239/F2A-2/Buffalo Mk.1. The Buff has just about the easiest stall/spin recoveries of any plane in the sim with possible exception of the Ki.43 (and, in two weeks, the Ki.27/D.XXI).
I wouldn't recommend the F4F for training because of its manual retract/lower of the undercarriage.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JFC_Rautaristi
11-08-2006, 04:03 AM
My suggestion would be to give him a plane you can easily engage and fight with, but with simple engine controls and it would be good if the performance would include both a good turn and speed. My suggestion would be the bf-109.

First let him fight with it, learn the plane and gain interest, then start with the serious stuff. If you start lecturing about energy management and physics right away, there's a big chance he'll lose interest.

Once he's familiar with the 109 and can also energy fight with it, if he's interested move to a plane like F4U, which is energy fighter, but turning still isn't necessarily a death sentence in it.

Didn't have time to read the whole thread, so these might have been posted before, but this is the principle with which i've been teaching a friend. I think he can soon move to the F4U stage http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Von_Rat
11-08-2006, 04:15 AM
wasnt the fw190 the best german plane for new pilots in real life. funny that nobody here recommends our in game fw190 to new pilots.

JFC_Rautaristi
11-08-2006, 05:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
wasnt the fw190 the best german plane for new pilots in real life. funny that nobody here recommends our in game fw190 to new pilots. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple, IRL pilots wanted to survive. Here, they want to kill and maybe rtb to get full points http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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MEGILE
11-08-2006, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
wasnt the fw190 the best german plane for new pilots in real life. funny that nobody here recommends our in game fw190 to new pilots. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Disagree 100%

Already did on page 1 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Von_Rat
11-09-2006, 01:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
wasnt the fw190 the best german plane for new pilots in real life. funny that nobody here recommends our in game fw190 to new pilots. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Disagree 100%

Already did on page 1 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok i'll amend that to,,,funny that only one person here recommends our in game fw190 to new pilots.

AlGroover
11-09-2006, 05:00 AM
Give him a spin (no pun intended) in the Ki61. It turns very well, is reasonably stall resistant, has pretty good firepower, wide undercarriage and looks great. It also has a big slip indicator at the top of the gauges so he can learn to make good turns.

Copperhead310th
11-09-2006, 07:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
wasnt the fw190 the best german plane for new pilots in real life. funny that nobody here recommends our in game fw190 to new pilots. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Disagree 100%

Already did on page 1 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok i'll amend that to,,,funny that only one person here recommends our in game fw190 to new pilots. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

one simple reason Rat......Forward visability is far too poor in the fw's for a rookie sim pilot to handle, among others but that's the 1st one that pops to mind.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VW-IceFire
11-09-2006, 09:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
Well, Junior, aka MiniFaust, flew with the squad last night and he is hooked on IL-2. We let him man the gunner positions on the B-25 and IL-2 for a couple missions and then he flew a Zero for mission number three. He had a heck of a time taking of and landing but, he got through the flight, even fired a few shots.

Anyway, I've been doing this too long to have a grasp of what the best starter plane is? Maybe the P-39 for take-off and landing? The Spit has forgiving handeling but, landing are tough? Bf109G2 maybe?

He's 11 and, of course, tends to overcontrol. Any suggestions for n00b training? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Without reading the rest of the posts...I think the answer may infact be inside of your post here faustnik. The Zero is actually a really good plane to start with I think. I'll state my reasons anyways and go from there.

Reasons why its a good plane to learn first:

1) Its very stable, very forgiving, and tends not to stall that easily. Even a stall is easily recovered.

2) Although its very easy in some attributes, its generally not any faster than the opposition and depending on the year its often quite a bit slower. So this has the effect of teaching the new pilot some level of energy fighting without smacking them in the face with it like the FW190.

3) Its firepower, regardless of year, is generally good enough to make fairly short work of the enemy at close ranges. The guns aren't very good for long range shooting so it forces the new pilot to get in close before scoring the kill.

4) Its a great plane to learn deflection shooting in as many of your shots are going to have to be deflection shots on a turning opponent.

5) Although easy to manage, the engine does tend to overheat. So it teaches good use of the radiator when not in combat without, again, smacking you in the face with it like for instance in the Tempest where you have to manage it in a more extreme way.

I say this all with a caveat: the pilot is new, potentially younger, and the aircraft is flown in semi-controlled conditions (i.e. not in a dogfight server like 334th) such as a coop.

I'd say, maybe after the Zero, you can move onto something like the La-5, the Spitfire, or the 109. Actually the Ki-61 and Ki-100 would also do well for early energy fighting training as these fighters turn well but still rely on an energy style to win. Much much much later onto some of the other goodies can be brought out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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faustnik
11-09-2006, 09:53 PM
Thanks for the suggestions guys. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

All is going well with MiniFaust's IL-2 training. He flew two squad missions tonight and did fine. He took off in the Bf109 and P-39 no problem. He tried once in the A8, but, didn't make it. He also learned what "bounce" meant, as a squad member in a 109 took the wing off his Cobra as MiniFaust was firing at a bomber. "I never even saw him" was his comment. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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karost
11-09-2006, 11:42 PM
training a kid ( 10-12 year old ) to fly is look fun and challenging.

if the game is IL2/FB ( not IL2 original ) you can see his talent or his gift from his
instinctive when he make re-action to control joystick. if he/she know how to
control a plane with gentle moving then the next step is teach him/her
to know about the nature of a plane gliding with a proper speed is look like.
that is a challenging for you ( instructor ) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

then let him/her select what plane that like to try for landing.
any slow speed with low wing load that look good for start.

if he/she feel fun after many crash and like to try again and again with fun
soon he/she will show a very nice landing a plane to you with a big smile. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

Saburo_0
11-10-2006, 10:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
OK, got the LAN working. As easy as you can get, just one button to find the server. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

We tried the "users choice" Kuban Ngen campaign, alternating between the P-39, Hurri II and IL-2. MiniFaust is doing well with takeoff, formup and formation flying. He is having trouble with landing and SA when the fight starts. Overall, he's doing great! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good to hear! About landing, I think let him switch to external view and try a few. straight 6 view. Once he sees the way the plane needs to approach the runway from the outside- why a little flair reduces the impact with the ground etc. Then it's easier to do it in the cockpit view. Watching the autopilot land is good to get an idea of speeds to, but I bet he can land just fine with the 6 oclock view.
I've learned this way in every sime since airwarrior. I think part of the problem is pc graphics don't give a very good feeling of distance from the ground.

Number one rule: HAVE FUN!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

MLudner
11-10-2006, 01:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
Well, Junior, aka MiniFaust, flew with the squad last night and he is hooked on IL-2. We let him man the gunner positions on the B-25 and IL-2 for a couple missions and then he flew a Zero for mission number three. He had a heck of a time taking of and landing but, he got through the flight, even fired a few shots.

Anyway, I've been doing this too long to have a grasp of what the best starter plane is? Maybe the P-39 for take-off and landing? The Spit has forgiving handeling but, landing are tough? Bf109G2 maybe?

He's 11 and, of course, tends to overcontrol. Any suggestions for n00b training? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

P-40B/C or Tomahawk II.

They have low torque effects on take-off, thus allowing the Newb to get some practice handling torque, but not in big doses.

They are forgiving in flight, but not too much.

They are not too difficult to land.

Il-2's are stable in flight, but have nasty torque on take-off.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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