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View Full Version : Oleg please remove canopy stains on F4F and F6F



HayateAce
12-29-2004, 12:36 AM
We have gone through a couple of patches now and this has not changed. While the USN planes seem to be getting plenty of attention to trim back speed or acceleration, we can't seem to get rid of the canopy stains.

Everyone, to a man, seems to agree that the cockpit stains are a bad idea. As an aside, I see that in almost every single cockpit stain thread, a few 109ers pop in and say something about "hey we have stains too".

There is a huge difference. The 109 staining is more of an atmospheric detail and only seems visible to me when looking out the sides, to the rear when the sun hits it just right. However, the staining on the F4F and F6F is all over the canopy INCLUDING the armored glass in front of the gunsight. Flying straight and level it's liveable, but do some BnZ and right at the moment you are diving down to take a shot your view is totally obscured by the stains.

I am all for removing these effects on all the a/c, but let's not compare the 109 stains. P51 jocks have a similar effect on the bubble, but they don't say much about it.

By the way, I am posting this because Ivan locked the other thread due to the guy saying "pee".

HayateAce
12-29-2004, 12:36 AM
We have gone through a couple of patches now and this has not changed. While the USN planes seem to be getting plenty of attention to trim back speed or acceleration, we can't seem to get rid of the canopy stains.

Everyone, to a man, seems to agree that the cockpit stains are a bad idea. As an aside, I see that in almost every single cockpit stain thread, a few 109ers pop in and say something about "hey we have stains too".

There is a huge difference. The 109 staining is more of an atmospheric detail and only seems visible to me when looking out the sides, to the rear when the sun hits it just right. However, the staining on the F4F and F6F is all over the canopy INCLUDING the armored glass in front of the gunsight. Flying straight and level it's liveable, but do some BnZ and right at the moment you are diving down to take a shot your view is totally obscured by the stains.

I am all for removing these effects on all the a/c, but let's not compare the 109 stains. P51 jocks have a similar effect on the bubble, but they don't say much about it.

By the way, I am posting this because Ivan locked the other thread due to the guy saying "pee".

Von_Zero
12-29-2004, 12:45 AM
I think this is the only time i agree with you, but the stains on the Hellcat are a big issue...

WUAF_Darkangel
12-29-2004, 02:07 AM
I never knew the hellcat and other planes like the ki-43 had these yellow stains on the canopy until i saw a thread about it yeaterday and took a closer look, literally. Y? because i've got objects detail set on low and most importantly object and ground lighting set to the very lowest. These settings should help.

WUAF_Darkangel
12-29-2004, 02:11 AM
The 109 has stains as well??????...man i must have a **** computer i just did some flight testing on the 109 f4, g2 and g6/as a few hours ago and i didn't c any stains at all.

Fehler
12-29-2004, 02:34 AM
I think it is important to note that light reflection and staining are two different issues.

The 190, for example can get blinding if you are turned against the sun at the proper angle. I like this feature a lot.

But the horse pee colored stains, like used to be on the late model 109's (Which I believe has been toned down a great deal) and which is on the Hellcat are really bad.

I understand the "Why's" about using this effect, but in practice, it merely makes for bad gameplay.

RocketDog
12-29-2004, 03:16 AM
The effect is worse if you are flying with the Sun low in the sky. At times it's impossible to see clearly what's going on in front of the aircraft.

From an earlier post by Oleg Maddox, it seems the the cockpit is incorrect and the opacity of the "stains" was accidentally set too high. Done with a light touch it adds atmosphere. Done as we have it now it really makes it hard to use the F6F. I had hoped that this would have been fixed in 3.03, but unfortunately, 3.03 just seemed to be a finalising of the content of 3.02b.

The nett effect is not good. The Wildcat/Zero flight models are so far from historical data that early-war scenarios aren't worth playing (see the thread on Zero/Wildcat dive speeds in the PF forum). The mid-war scenarios suffer because of 1C's poor quality control on the F6F cockpit. That leaves the F4U as the only big Allied carrier-based fighter that isn't hamstrung by outstanding bugs.

Regards,

RocketDog.

RocketDog
12-29-2004, 04:44 AM
HayateAce's post is polite, reasoned and measured. All he did was point out (correctly) that the staining on the F6F is far heavier than on any other aircraft.
Regards,

RocketDog.

carguy_
12-29-2004, 07:12 AM
It is rather clear that Yankwhiners are definitely a bigger voice due to this forum being English and all.Whenever a Yank problem appears a whole swarm goes down to one thread shouting how badly modeled they`re planes are.

50cal is fixed,hmmmm what else aaaah those horrible stains that are a reason for 99% of my deaths I must quickly sygnalize this to Oleg!!!

LW boys lose battle after battle whatever the proof.Oh BTW why does Oleg ignore the MG151/20 issue even if FW190 is his favorite I dunno,maybe he`s a masohist?

You didn`t complain about stains in Me109G6Late,did you?

HayateAce
12-29-2004, 08:52 AM
Hmm, sorry you had to say those things badsight.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Anyway, as I was trying to say that I know the 109 also has some canopy staining as do a few others, but it really doesn't limit gameplay to any degree. Carguy is providing the example of what I was trying to prevent. A simple thread about F4F and F6F staining/gunnery issue, being used as a platform for airing general grievances.

I have flown the 109 enough to have noticed the rearward looking stains a few times but I never lost a bogey due to it. Hopefully the oher fellow is right in that they have toned it down in the last few patches. Maybe they will get around to the F4F/F6f.

crazyivan1970
12-29-2004, 09:35 AM
I haven`t banned anyone in the while... i just might.

This time Hayate posted something reasonable and you jumping him like there is no tomorrow. Why? I think it`s a valid request and in this scenario it`s a hardly a whine. As a full time 109 junkie, i say: hey, we have stains too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Keep in mind, that this is not one of those request where you can say: learn how to fly or shoot... it`s something that a bit irritates even me - which is very hard to do. Whether it`s late 109s or hellcat, if mechanic of the plane would leave something like this on the canopy glass... pilot would shoot him after the mission , if he would make it back alive. It`s a great feature, tintet glass... but somehow did not work out.

Cheers!

Ruy Horta
12-29-2004, 09:46 AM
Carguy may have come on strongly, but is he really that far of the mark?

.50 vs 151/20?
certain USN canopy vs certain LW Canopy?


With regards to the discoloration:

What people who model these birds faithfully from museum types fail to realize, is that they are looking at 50 year old materials. MAYBE that plexiglass was stained during those years, maybe the layers within the bullet proof glass have deteriorated? Questions one should ask before simply copying as authentic.

Now Russian types were actually known for **** plexiglass (*), that's kind of ironic isn't it...

(* late war Luftwaffe armored glass has been described as smokey - because of deteriorating war economy - so I'll be honest across the board).

DarthBane_
12-29-2004, 10:41 AM
But it looks so good, why removing?

t0n.
12-29-2004, 11:01 AM
The urine stains have been there for so long, after so much noise, that I doubt there's much chance of ever seeing it fixed.

I suspect its exactly as it was intended to be from the start.

tolwyn.com
12-29-2004, 11:02 AM
Guys, it's a known issue with the opacity settings for the common glass texture in use by ALL aircraft (it's a shared texture).

The modeller submitted it with, basically, the wrong opacity setting.

It's not an "easy" fix, per se... the aircraft needs to be replaced, so you'll see a new SFS file that contains the fixed Hellcat AND the new planes in 3.04.

PLEASE. Search the forums. This has been discussed many times.

It will be fixed.

BlitzPig_DDT
12-29-2004, 11:09 AM
The cano-pee stains? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tsisqua
12-29-2004, 12:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
The cano-pee stains? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL, Hello DDT!

Well, the lack of pit heat in the Lightning caused just that problem in at least one case that I am aware of. Maj. Jack Ilfrey's relief tube froze, and the tube itself filled with urine. Jack was jumped by a Jerry fighter, pushed the bird into a dive, and the stuff became airborne, freezing instantly to the canopy. He lost the attacker, but not without alot of wiping. When he landed, the crew chief asked Jack "Did you get a little scared up there, Sir?"

I know . . . sorry, OT

Tsisqua

p1ngu666
12-29-2004, 04:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:

This time Hayate posted something reasonable and you jumping him like there is no tomorrow. Why? I think it`s a valid request and in this scenario it`s a hardly a whine. As a full time 109 junkie, i say: hey, we have stains too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

its habit ivan http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
its bad on f6f/f4f and also ki43 i think. and others too maybe.
mossies bombed a german glass factory in 43/44 i think http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. incase u didnt know, this may well have affected canopy quality

anyways didnt it get toned down in AEP?

be nice for f4f/f6f/ki43 it tobe fixed tho http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

i think ppl who fly german planes, alot are american, and alot of the ppl who fly american planes are american.

the people who fly japanease planes, well, they often dont exist...

GR142-Pipper
12-29-2004, 06:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
It is rather clear that Yankwhiners are definitely a bigger voice due to this forum being English and all.Whenever a Yank problem appears a whole swarm goes down to one thread shouting how badly modeled they`re planes are. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The guy says that the F4F/F6F canopies have yellow staining and are a detriment to game play. It's true.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>50cal is fixed,hmmmm what else aaaah those horrible stains that are a reason for 99% of my deaths I must quickly sygnalize this to Oleg!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The 50s are NOT fixed and he didn't say a word about deaths.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>LW boys lose battle after battle whatever the proof.Oh BTW why does Oleg ignore the MG151/20 issue even if FW190 is his favorite I dunno,maybe he`s a masohist? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Where have you been? The 109 is a joke these days with completely overdone abilities...and it's gotten worse in the last several patches.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You didn`t complain about stains in Me109G6Late,did you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It isn't his job to do so given that the subject is about F4Fs and F6Fs. If the 109 or any other aircraft suffers from this problem too, then remove it from those aircraft as well.

GR142-Pipper

WUAF_Badsight
12-29-2004, 07:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
The 50s are NOT fixed and he didn't say a word about deaths. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
because they are NOT broke

& what is with you never backing up your Axis plane disses with proof ?

p1ngu666
12-29-2004, 08:03 PM
ya the 109 has become very very good imo
the g2 is a joke

plus the 109 can do things which other planes cant, which unlock even more performance... unhistoric performance http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Von_Zero
12-29-2004, 09:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
ya the 109 has become very very good imo
the g2 is a joke

plus the 109 can do things which other planes cant, which unlock even more performance... unhistoric performance http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
U'r drinking boy? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

BelaLvgosi
12-29-2004, 09:14 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/hostinghere/109yellowstains.jpg

I completely agree the hellcat has some ugly stains, way worse than the ones in the 109's (wich still have a lot of black oil ones in the front). But still both can be a handicap considering that some planes have cristal clear canopy glasses.

p1ngu666
12-29-2004, 09:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Zero:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
ya the 109 has become very very good imo
the g2 is a joke

plus the 109 can do things which other planes cant, which unlock even more performance... unhistoric performance http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
U'r drinking boy? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nope http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

ive done a test with someone who knows what there doing...
k4, and he climbed alot better than i did, at the same power,speed rad settings. now far as i know the k4 performs aswell or BETTER than the real thing. aand he got way more than me in the climb and accel than i could...

GR142-Pipper
12-30-2004, 12:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
The 50s are NOT fixed and he didn't say a word about deaths. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>because they are NOT broke <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The word is "broken" and yes, they are broken.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>& what is with you never backing up your Axis plane disses with proof ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> First, we're not discussing Axis planes. We're talking about American planes as well as those aircraft of any nation which have the yellow film modeled on their canopies.

Second and quite unlike you Badsight, I've actually fired REAL 50s and REAL 20mms and know what they can do.

Third and with respect, it's interesting that you ask for proof when you don't have the slightest clue as to how to differentiate fact from fiction. No matter....rant on.

GR142-Pipper

WUAF_Badsight
12-30-2004, 12:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
No matter....rant on.

GR142-Pipper <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
oh im sure you will

even in the face of proof

GR142-Pipper
12-30-2004, 01:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
No matter....rant on.

GR142-Pipper <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
oh im sure you will

even in the face of proof <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Respectfully and given the fact that you really don't have a clue about what's being discussed, you might consider giving your keyboard a rest.

GR142-Pipper

mortoma
12-30-2004, 09:32 AM
Forget about it. Perfectly clear cockpits have been mostly reserved for Russian cockpits!! Which is strange because in reality Russians had the worse quality of plexiglass or whatever they used.

BuzzU
12-30-2004, 10:23 AM
I have no problem seeing out of the 109. Make the F6F/F4F like the 109, and i'm happy.

DONB3397
12-30-2004, 11:41 AM
In defense of yellow stains...the F6F canopy was tinted yellow by Grumman to reduce glare. Reflected light off the inside surface probably looked something like the "staining" we see.

So the idea is correct, I think. But, like everyone else, I'd like to see it reduced a bit.

BTW, I didn't notice the 109 "stains" until the last patch (3.03). Now I see it in low light conditions.

HayateAce
12-30-2004, 11:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DONB3397:
In defense of yellow stains...the F6F canopy was tinted yellow by Grumman to reduce glare. Reflected light off the inside surface probably looked something like the "staining" we see.

So the idea is correct, I think. But, like everyone else, I'd like to see it reduced a bit.

BTW, I didn't notice the 109 "stains" until the last patch (3.03). Now I see it in low light conditions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no defense for these stains.

No.

WUAF_Badsight
12-30-2004, 01:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DONB3397:
In defense of yellow stains...the F6F canopy was tinted yellow by Grumman to reduce glare. Reflected light off the inside surface probably looked something like the "staining" we see. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
HayateHater . . . . if the above is True , then wouldnt you call That a defense ? ! ? ! ? ! ?

btw , crazyivan has already relayed thats its going to change back , but if something like it was actually in a WW2 A/C , then the only reason for excluding it is gameplay & not realisim

GT182
12-31-2004, 10:33 AM
You guys break me up... STOP THE WHINING.

I suppose all of you have making the gripes about the "stains" have been up in a real a/c or warbird? Well, I have been up in a few and I'll tell you right now that there are "stains", discolorations and scratches on and in plexiglass. Time in the sun does this and there is nothing that can be doen about it... unless you keep a canopy covered 24/7 for 365 days a year. Scratches will come with cleaning and all the doo doo from being in the air. The only fix is replacement and the new one will do the same thing with time.

So I suggest you don't fly is the fix you need. LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

And too the moderators:
There's so many threads here with the same whines, why can't you delete them and save some server space? It's getting sickening seeing the same thing over and over everyday. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BuzzU
12-31-2004, 10:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GT182:
You guys break me up... STOP THE WHINING.

I suppose all of you have making the gripes about the "stains" have been up in a real a/c or warbird? Well, I have been up in a few and I'll tell you right now that there are "stains", discolorations and scratches on and in plexiglass. Time in the sun does this and there is nothing that can be doen about it... unless you keep a canopy covered 24/7 for 365 days a year. Scratches will come with cleaning and all the doo doo from being in the air. The only fix is replacement and the new one will do the same thing with time.

So I suggest you don't fly is the fix you need. LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

And too the moderators:
There's so many threads here with the same whines, why can't you delete them and save some server space? It's getting sickening seeing the same thing over and over everyday. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You've been in a WW2 fighter in the 40's, or now after it's discolored?

btw..Didn't you just whine?

Stiglr
12-31-2004, 01:47 PM
Showing the view from a 109 cockpit against a snowy field, on the ground, minimizes the effect.

Try it when flying above green or brown terrain, in lower light or rainy conditions, particularly when enemy are about.

Then you'll see what a horrible thing it really is.

GT182
12-31-2004, 03:48 PM
BuzzU, no, I wasn't around in the 40s but plexiglass was the same or not as good as todays. It did discolor just the same as it does today. What makes you think it was any different? You sit out in the hot sun and tell me you won't discolor. I have friends that are A&E mechanics and pilots that will say the same thing. I also worked with aircraft years ago and changed a few windscreens myself.

And my whine... you betchya, it's the biggest of all. Don't you think all the whining on what's not good enough or what's not included in the sims is getting a little too much? I do and I think many others here feel the same way. Besides, they're taking up more server space than all the good points posted here in the forums. It's getting a little too much to take. At least post whines in one post. Don't make 5 or 6 threads on the same whine if you can see what I mean.

HayateAce
12-31-2004, 04:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GT182:
You guys break me up... STOP THE WHINING.

I suppose all of you have making the gripes about the "stains" have been up in a real a/c or warbird? Well, I have been up in a few and I'll tell you right now that there are "stains", discolorations and scratches on and in plexiglass. Time in the sun does this and there is nothing that can be doen about it... unless you keep a canopy covered 24/7 for 365 days a year. Scratches will come with cleaning and all the doo doo from being in the air. The only fix is replacement and the new one will do the same thing with time.

So I suggest you don't fly is the fix you need. LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

And too the moderators:
There's so many threads here with the same whines, why can't you delete them and save some server space? It's getting sickening seeing the same thing over and over everyday. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hooray, we got canopy covers!

http://www.ussyorktown.com/yorktown/kerlee16_21.jpg

BuzzU
12-31-2004, 04:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GT182:
BuzzU, no, I wasn't around in the 40s but plexiglass was the same or not as good as todays. It did discolor just the same as it does today. What makes you think it was any different? You sit out in the hot sun and tell me you won't discolor. I have friends that are A&E mechanics and pilots that will say the same thing. I also worked with aircraft years ago and changed a few windscreens myself.

And my whine... you betchya, it's the biggest of all. Don't you think all the whining on what's not good enough or what's not included in the sims is getting a little too much? I do and I think many others here feel the same way. Besides, they're taking up more server space than all the good points posted here in the forums. It's getting a little too much to take. At least post whines in one post. Don't make 5 or 6 threads on the same whine if you can see what I mean. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The bottom line is the plexiglass isn't right on the Hellcat though. Let's imagine the plexiglass is new, and hasn't yellowed yet..http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LEXX_Luthor
12-31-2004, 05:04 PM
Buzz:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Let's imagine the plexiglass is new, and hasn't yellowed yet.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's what I try to post at IL2skins maybe the plane is new so you don't need the Xtreme weathering...weathering that never changes from skin to skin. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BelaLvgosi
12-31-2004, 07:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
Showing the view from a 109 cockpit against a snowy field, on the ground, minimizes the effect.

Try it when flying above green or brown terrain, in lower light or rainy conditions, particularly when enemy are about.

Then you'll see what a horrible thing it really is. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was the only screen I had on hand, I wasn't trying to mask it or something, on the contrary, as I primarily fly 109s. But yes, the problem is when it hides planes in forest zones, mostly because when looking backwards we tend to do it quickly.

HayateAce
01-01-2005, 01:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
HayateHater . . . . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder if you would stop this poor behaviour?

WUAF_Badsight
01-01-2005, 02:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
if something like it was actually in a WW2 A/C , then the only reason for excluding it is gameplay & not realisim <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GT182
01-01-2005, 08:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>by Buzz
The bottom line is the plexiglass isn't right on the Hellcat though. Let's imagine the plexiglass is new, and hasn't yellowed yet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but you could also use the p-tube so you don't dirty it. Or that barf bag you carry. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif LOL

GR142-Pipper
01-01-2005, 08:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
The bottom line is the plexiglass isn't right on the Hellcat though. Let's imagine the plexiglass is new, and hasn't yellowed yet..http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Agreed. And let's do it the same for all the aircraft.

GR142-Pipper