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demigod151
11-14-2006, 03:29 PM
Having recently been out and about on my first Patrol in a VIIc having been used to the IIa for so long, the difference is really really stark. I will say this much, in fairness to the IIa, you really do learn from playing that U-Boat, to make every Torpedo, and every pint of Diesel count! Thus I got my VIIc, and when it comes to traversing the sea, its engines ahead 1/3 and the first ship I sank, I actually in the heat of the moment FORGOT, I had a deck gun now and so fired a very well aimed Torpedo instead! lol

Also when you sight a ship, and you chase in at flank speed, you really do notice the difference, its not as tight turning as a IIa, but the speed and fuel consumption difference is great. Well worth the wait. No idea what the VIIb is like, was tempted with one, but decided against it. Next I will be wondering, should I have a IX U-Boat.

There are just a few things that make me wonder, how deep can a VIIc go? I read the community manual, and it says 150, but the maximum is listed at 247, has anybody gone deeper? I went down to 180 meters and the chief told me they were diving too deep and was rather worreid. Just wondering how far I can push it before things start to break or its crush time.

One final thing to ask, and I am in all seriousness here, what is the strategy to sinking warships that are more than capable of sinking you? I got surprised by a flower corvette when I left the game running, and I only just came back in time when the shooting began and I was not sure how to attack it so didn't chance it, I dived deeper and escaped at low revs.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

__________________________
Proud captain of U-95!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/Spider-Hulk/SH3/Lonewolf2.jpg

demigod151
11-14-2006, 03:29 PM
Having recently been out and about on my first Patrol in a VIIc having been used to the IIa for so long, the difference is really really stark. I will say this much, in fairness to the IIa, you really do learn from playing that U-Boat, to make every Torpedo, and every pint of Diesel count! Thus I got my VIIc, and when it comes to traversing the sea, its engines ahead 1/3 and the first ship I sank, I actually in the heat of the moment FORGOT, I had a deck gun now and so fired a very well aimed Torpedo instead! lol

Also when you sight a ship, and you chase in at flank speed, you really do notice the difference, its not as tight turning as a IIa, but the speed and fuel consumption difference is great. Well worth the wait. No idea what the VIIb is like, was tempted with one, but decided against it. Next I will be wondering, should I have a IX U-Boat.

There are just a few things that make me wonder, how deep can a VIIc go? I read the community manual, and it says 150, but the maximum is listed at 247, has anybody gone deeper? I went down to 180 meters and the chief told me they were diving too deep and was rather worreid. Just wondering how far I can push it before things start to break or its crush time.

One final thing to ask, and I am in all seriousness here, what is the strategy to sinking warships that are more than capable of sinking you? I got surprised by a flower corvette when I left the game running, and I only just came back in time when the shooting began and I was not sure how to attack it so didn't chance it, I dived deeper and escaped at low revs.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

__________________________
Proud captain of U-95!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/Spider-Hulk/SH3/Lonewolf2.jpg

Bootsmann0815
11-14-2006, 10:46 PM
Congratulations on your new boat! You seem to have come to grips with it very well. I agree that the type IIA and IID boats are great "learning" boats, you really have to make your torpedos count and know the limits of the boat to be successful. And actually that's historically accurate, often the most successful commanders started out their careers in one of the smaller boats.
One remark: if you use SH3Commander, and play with "realistic career length" enabled, it may well be that the Commander cuts your career shortly after you can afford the VIIB/C. Once I started a career in a IIA in Seopt 39, and had managed to get enough renown to get a VIIB just in time for the Nowregian campaign in Apr. 40, only to be told by the Commander that my career was now over...

"Forgetting" that you have a deck gun is not a bad thing either. It always (historically as well as in SH3) has been designed as a secondary weapon. In STOCK SH3 it's actually much stronger than it was in real life, therefore, the supermods have corrected that and changed damage models and made sinking by deck gun very difficult. Essentially it's primary use is to finish off a target that has been damaged but not sunk by a torpedo hit, not as a primary attack weapon (except perhaps against very small ships like the fishing boats). Also, remember that in later war (starting Jan. 41 in SH3) more and more enemy merchants have guns too and can fire back at you. In these cases remember that your advantage is to be more manoeuverable and you are the smaller target, theirt advantage is a higher rate of fire and having the more stable gun platform (easier targeting, and all-weather use of their guns).

The main differences between VIIB and VIIC are that the B has the slightly shorter diving tiime and the C has a 25% greater max range.

Max diving depths were (and are in SH3) basically the same. "Factory guarantee" max diving depth was historically 90m, in practice standard evasive diving depth (where possible) was between 150 and 180m. In SH3, this is fairly well-modelled, beyond 180m your LI gets nervous and the creaking and glass breaking sounds increase. This is when you know you can go no further, though other forum members have reported surviving much deeper depths; I've once seen a screenshot of someone surviving 310m, though that may have been modded. I've never succeeded in recovering from more than 190m in a VIIB and 220m in a VIIC. Anfdf any hull damage already sustained cuts the diving depth severely. Once I was killed at 60m when the hull integrity was down to 48%.
Note also that if you use SH3 Commander there isan additional random failure state which cuts the max dive depth even for a boat that has no hull damage (this mirrors "metal fatigue") but in SH3 is not restricted to old boats and may even occur on your first patrol in the boat). You'll only notice that you have the problem when the warning noises come on much earlier, at shallower depths than you expected. As all SH3Commander random failure states, they get all automatically repaired once you reach a base (though not at milk cows). And as a bonus in the other direction, standard max diving depths are slightluy increased by the Commander, to values between 240- and 250m for type VII boats, but as I said I never survived beyond 220.

Concerning warships, my comment would be to remember that your primary mission is to sink merchants while evading warships. In most cases it's not worthwhile attacking them; it's better to evade. Note the relatively low tonnage attached to most warships. Only cruisers and upwards (battleships and carriers) are worthwhile targets if you get the chance, but don't bother to attack convoy escorts like destroyers, corvettes and armed trawlers (unless there are only one or two - if you get them, the convoy is yours to cause havoc in early war). And never attack escorts

demigod151
11-15-2006, 11:53 AM
I will be honest, the IIa I feel was the making of me in terms of me commanding U-Boats and learning to be cautious, because when you only have 5 Torpedoes to play with, you need to make every shot count, not to mention the fuel issue, I play the game with realistic battery and fuel supplies so I really do mind my step. I do use SH3 commander now, Im running on 2.5, mainly I only did it to alter a few things like the U-Boat number and reduced the numbers of days spent in port from 28 to 20. I have to be honest, evertime I start a new career now, I will always start in a IIa to help keep me sharp and in 1939. I think its definately the best option.

I did notice that the deck gun on the VIIc is pretty darn effective. Certainly I quite agree that the primary weapon is the torpedo, but against small lone ships the deck gun is ideal really and I do use that where possible. Mainly to save my Torpedo's for the big chuggers which even in stock SH3 need a good pummeling. Against the armed merchants, I will just blast with a torpedo, and if they survive then I will dance round firing some AP's at their waterline till they go under. But I certainly do not "rely" on the deck gun, but since I have a good weapon, I do make use of it.

One of the reasons I decided against a VIIb was because as time progresses, the VIIc offers more by way of upgrades and improvements. Also it was the "workhorse" and when people think of U-Boats they think of Das Boot and U-96 which was the VIIc. I suppose when it comes to U-Boats, the VIIc is - "The Icon" if you will. Not only that, the VIIb would not have been a permanent featuring U-Boat, and so I thought it best to just save renown and plump for the c.

Yes the factory guaranteed 90m's in the VIIc's but usually they did go down to about 150 or 160 meters. Though I couldn't see myself going down deeper than 180m. Though the deeper you go, obviously, the more pressure is put on the hull and so a couple of well placed depth charges could end it all, but on the flip side, the allies were not really sure just how deep these little Grey buggers could go so that helps. I have yet to be involved in a depth charge attack but, Im sure when it comes I will cope somehow.

I did run into a warsip in the North Sea, a British Class C destroyer, he charged straight at me, guns blasting away the bottom depth in the region being 40m give or take, I thought, wonderful... I decided attack was the best defence, and I fired a torpedo at him. Dud! I could have cried! The trail led the destroyer straight to me. But because I was so shallow, he couldn't drop depth charges or risk blowing himself up, I think he was trying to ram me. but I just about got out of the way. So it was more cat and mouse now, and I thought I lined up a cracking stern shot on him. He dodged the torp. Down scope, yet more 2 knts sneaking about. The third torpedo, was a bow shot from tube 2, and that scored a hit and sank the ship. Only 1300 odd tons, bit disapointing, but considering through a bit of patience and a hint of luck I was able to torpedo a ship travelling at about 25 knts, I thought it was still worthwhile. But I think in future, I won't bother to waste any torpedos on corvettes and destroyers, sneaking away is the order of business there.

Yes the job of the U-boats was to disrupt the supply lines by sinking merchant ships. but you do get a nice slice of renown when you sink a warship of some kind. But it is difficult to do.

Thanks for the reply boots. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

__________________________
Proud captain of U-95!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/Spider-Hulk/SH3/Lonewolf2.jpg

FongFongFong
11-15-2006, 12:11 PM
actually once you figure out how to slip into one of those nice defended harbors

using your passive sonar to let you know where they are, and creeping along with silent running . . . looking out for nets and mines

You can often find nice juicy targets sleeping on their deck-watches.

then, slip out again.

So line up your perfect shot, close range
and target the vital organs.
And to help your non-detection,
keep that scope down and go very slow.

Of course, Grey Wolves or a harbor traffic mod helps as does consulting naval intelligence about possible targets before you try to slip into a harbor (run SH3 Gen on your save game)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/rupertlittlebear/tnuke.gif

lecek
11-15-2006, 08:22 PM
I was the one who made the 247 meter entry in the community manual.

Let me tell you something about the diving depths of the sub. If you really don't want to know, you should stop reading this post now.

In a real sub, if you go to max depth, and then come back, and then go back down... Eventually you will die. Your hull can't take that kind of abuse. But SH3 subs aren't real.

The key point to understand is that there is no fuzz value in the max depth value of an undamaged sub. A VIIC can and does make almost the exact value you see in the manual. All the values for the subs other then the II's are overstated by about 1 to 2 meters. It is hard to say exactly which because what is actually hapening is that the depth is calculated from a base value and the no one knows the exact calculation. However, despite all the sounds and protesting crew, if you have an undamaged sub and an unmoded game you can make just short the depths stated in the community manual every time over and over again without worry. Dive at flank if you want. You are good. I normally cruse at 241 meters in a VIIC. The downside is that if you are damaged such that you have weakened hull integrity then it gets hard to know the exact depth. Accidentally diving too deep will lessen your hull integrity which will lessen you max depth which will make you take damage faster. If you dive to deeply, you have to come up out of the danger zone fast or you are done.

In an unmoded game there is no way to normally reach depths beyond those in the community manual. Sometimes there are reports of subs sinking out of control that make depths like 310 and 510 meters. I don't get sunk this way, infact I hardly get sunk at all, so I can't tell you how to do this, except that you can't do it on purpose in an unmoded game. I would go on to say that it might not be possible to do it at all in an unmoded game, but I am not sure of that either.

In case you wonder where the depths listed for the subs in the community manual come from, I got the formula from Wolfie (I think) in one of his mod readme's, and then viewed the source files in the game and did the math. I spent some time to figure out the exact formula but the math never seems to work out exactly. I have taken the time to take each sub and dive to its max depth and note when it starts taking damage.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

100K Club Member

lecek
11-15-2006, 08:32 PM
There is a possibility of being able to make the 310 meters depth again and again, in an unmoded game but I am not sure. Nor am I sure that you can do it reliably.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

100K Club Member