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karataht
06-08-2011, 02:48 AM
Hi,

I clearly remember how I felt while I was watching the first Assassin’s Creed gameplay video for the first time. That was a unique moment. And even at that moment I dreamed of just one thing: Istanbul.
And now my dreams come true.

First three games were really wonderful. Atmosphere, architecture, social environment and vegetation of the cities were reflected so realistic and I almost felt as if I was in the game myself. However:

I watched AC: Revelation E3 gameplay demo with great excitement and expectations. Having watched it couple times, I felt a bit disappointed. Although it is early to have a clean opinion It seems that Ubisoft repeated the same mistake which has always been made by western game development studios.
Let me be more specific:

I was born, have lived for about 30 years, and will probably die here in Istanbul; but I've never seen that much palm trees during my entire life as seen in the gameplay demo. Natural vegetation of the city usually does not contain palm trees, because of the climate. Istanbul has a Mediterranean - Oceanic climate so that changes the vegetation. There are usually pine trees, plane trees, oak trees,cypress trees, beech trees but not palm trees.

Is this so vital? Yes; climate and vegetation has a deep impact on the game's realism which is a key factor to approach enthusiastic gamers living or interested in those area.

What we can see at the demo is a dry-yellow atmosphere supported by sandy weather, palm trees, barren mountains, etc... As a result, the city looks more like Cairo, Baghdad or any other Arabic-African-Middleeastern city; rather than Istanbul.
I'm not sure how much Ubisoft developers place emphasis on this, but If you claim that you are realistic then you should take these differences into consideration.

Some pictures to get an idea about vegetation and enviroment:


http://istanbulresimleri.net/data/media/40/Sultanah.jpg http://istanbulresimleri.net/data/media/40/Istanb11.jpg
http://istanbulresimleri.net/data/media/40/Istanb20.jpg http://istanbulresimleri.net/data/media/40/Istanbu3.jpg
http://istanbulresimleri.net/data/media/45/emirgan_3.jpg http://istanbulresimleri.net/data/media/45/emirgan_5.jpg
http://istanbulresimleri.net/data/media/45/hidiv_kasr_22.jpg http://istanbulresimleri.net/data/media/45/hidiv_kasr_24.jpg
http://istanbulresimleri.net/data/media/45/kanlca_1.jpg http://istanbulresimleri.net/data/media/45/kanlca_2.jpg
http://istanbulresimleri.net/data/media/45/kanlca_3.jpg http://istanbulresimleri.net/data/media/30/topkap_saray_14.jpg
http://istanbulresimleri.net/data/media/31/arkeolojimzesi_7.jpg http://resim.istanbulyeditepe.com/Rumeli-Hisari/Rumeli-Hisari-08.jpg
http://resim.istanbulyeditepe.com/Gulhane/Gulhane-18.jpg http://resim.istanbulyeditepe.com/Gulhane/Gulhane-34.jpg
http://www.turkiye-resimleri.com/data/media/38/baltaliman.jpg http://www.turkiye-resimleri.com/data/media/38/arnavutky.jpg
http://www.turkiye-resimleri.com/data/media/38/beikta.jpg http://www.turkiye-resimleri.com/data/media/38/deniz.jpg
http://www.manzaralar.net/turkiye/illerimiz/ISTANBUL/856c7e96e73e4f7dbfd2b3eaf7afc6c0-6305.jpg http://www.manzaralar.net/turkiye/illerimiz/ISTANBUL/8.jpg
http://www.manzaralar.net/turkiye/illerimiz/ISTANBUL/istanbul250.jpg http://www.manzaralar.net/turkiye/illerimiz/ISTANBUL/istanbul410.jpg
http://www.istanbul.net.tr/istfoto/sizinfoto/buyuk/hakanunal_dolunayistanbul1.jpg


As an ancient city, Istanbul presents great historical and multicultural backgrounds, for all people not just for its citizens. Since 1453 muslims, christians, jews etc lived in peace together under the Ottoman rule and they still live in Republic of Turkey. There are so many buildings which belongs to different cultures, religions etc. Also this mixcultural social life is an issue which should be considered by Ubisoft.

Best Regards.

IIwangcarsII
06-08-2011, 02:56 AM
Are you 200 years old? I thought not. There is no way you could possibly know what Istanbul looked like in the 15th century. Which is why you cant criticize Ubisofts hard work. I mean I wouldnt know what my city was like in the 15th century. Things change, aswell as climate. And ubisoft only showed us one glimpse of a district so there is no knowing what the overall effect of the city will be until we own the game.

albertwesker22
06-08-2011, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by JetChrisUK:
Are you 200 years old? I thought not. There is no way you could possibly know what Istanbul looked like in the 15th century. Which is why you cant criticize Ubisofts hard work. I mean I wouldnt know what my city was like in the 15th century. Things change, aswell as climate. And ubisoft only showed us one glimpse of a district so there is no knowing what the overall effect of the city will be until we own the game.

He is making a pretty fair point, the trailer made Constantinople look like it was built on a desert. Which isn't the case, the environment should look more clear.

IIwangcarsII
06-08-2011, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by albertwesker22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JetChrisUK:
Are you 200 years old? I thought not. There is no way you could possibly know what Istanbul looked like in the 15th century. Which is why you cant criticize Ubisofts hard work. I mean I wouldnt know what my city was like in the 15th century. Things change, aswell as climate. And ubisoft only showed us one glimpse of a district so there is no knowing what the overall effect of the city will be until we own the game.

He is making a pretty fair point, the trailer made Constantinople look like it was built on a desert. Which isn't the case, the environment should look more clear. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well at least they've touched a place where I doubt any other game companies would have went. You cant blame them for trying, and I bet you will still love the game none the less anyway.

I'm just fed up of people being so f*cking critical over something that they couldn't even dream of doing!

albertwesker22
06-08-2011, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by JetChrisUK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by albertwesker22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JetChrisUK:
Are you 200 years old? I thought not. There is no way you could possibly know what Istanbul looked like in the 15th century. Which is why you cant criticize Ubisofts hard work. I mean I wouldnt know what my city was like in the 15th century. Things change, aswell as climate. And ubisoft only showed us one glimpse of a district so there is no knowing what the overall effect of the city will be until we own the game.

He is making a pretty fair point, the trailer made Constantinople look like it was built on a desert. Which isn't the case, the environment should look more clear. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well at least they've touched a place where I doubt any other game companies would have went. You cant blame them for trying, and I bet you will still love the game none the less anyway.

I'm just fed up of people being so f*cking critical over something that they couldn't even dream of doing! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair point, I see what you mean. Oh and yes, I will enjoy the $h*t out of it regardless.

If AC took place in my city though, I probably would react the same way if I saw some mistake(But again still love the hell out of it).

thornebrook
06-08-2011, 03:57 AM
Thanks OP. I personally love reading details and corrections like this about places I've never been to. While I like letting myself get immersed in the environment AC provides in-game, it's never really a good idea to count on them for accuracy, and hearing the people from the portrayed culture clarify things is always enlightening.

People who work in the entertainment industry often just aim for what's reasonably believable to the average consumer or their target market, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It still generates interest in a new place, culture, or people. A bit of misrepresentation does grate a little, but gotta take the bad with the good.

I have a feeling the devs just used creative license and wanted the setting to be severely different from what players have already experienced in Italy, so they kind of went for that arid desert feel instead. Or that might be what they genuinely thought Constantinopole looked like at that time period, hehe.

karataht
06-08-2011, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by JetChrisUK:
Are you 200 years old? I thought not. There is no way you could possibly know what Istanbul looked like in the 15th century. Which is why you cant criticize Ubisofts hard work. I mean I wouldnt know what my city was like in the 15th century. Things change, aswell as climate.

First:
This is why new AC: Revelations should be based our era like other Assassin's Creed games.

We played in Rome in AC:Brotherhood. Did anyone feel any differecences today's Rome? I suppose no.(I mean climate and vegetation)
Are game developers 500 years old? NO.
Because Ubisoft have based today's conditions there wasn't any issues to be considered.

Second:
I "CAN" criticise everything couse I am a customer. Ubisoft produce, I buy. There is no other relationship between me and Ubisoft. This is what it is and so simple. So I CAN criticize what I wish, I CAN share my opinions, I CAN give advices. This is why forums are created.

Third:
Although there isnt any obligation, I'm gonna repeat: As far as I said I am really satisfied becouse Ubisoft have chosen Istanbul. I love AC series and have big respect to game developers. It will be wonderful to watch Istanbul, while Ezio climbs to Hagia Sophia.
But people are free to write their concerns, questions or doubts. Nobody CAN judge anyone couse of this.

IIwangcarsII
06-08-2011, 05:23 AM
Well If it bothers you so much then DONT buy the game. Yeah, I can do all that capitalisation aswell! Incase you didnt read my last post I said that they are trying to make it as accurate as they can but I dont see why they cant have palm trees in Constantinople. I mean L.A. Have palm trees now, but I bet they didnt have palm trees there hundreds of years ago. All I am saying is that things change, Trees, even the mountains and surrounding landscape will have changed over the years. So Ubisoft can do what they want to something we have never seen and make it believable. Just like how they made Masyaf surrounded by mountains where as in real life the place is nothing like what it was like in game.

karataht
06-08-2011, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by JetChrisUK:
Well If it bothers you so much then DONT buy the game. Yeah, I can do all that capitalisation aswell! Incase you didnt read my last post I said that they are trying to make it as accurate as they can but I dont see why they cant have palm trees in Constantinople. I mean L.A. Have palm trees now, but I bet they didnt have palm trees there hundreds of years ago.

To your last post it gets obvious that you dont want to understand.

A few palm trees are not the problem. The main problem is the atmosphere of the city and the palm trees were only one part of that. Istanbul was not a sandy desert city like supported by some ignorant orientalists. There is no evidence becouse there is nothing to be proven. Documents, paintings, sociological datas, literature, stories, lyrics, poets, biographies, culture, habbits and traditions are what I rely on.

This point of view is what I m afraid of and I have expectations from Ubisoft to change and enlighten these minds and give Istanbul a chance.

I live in this city, I know its history, I smell it, I breath it, I speak its language, I love it, I hate it, I am a permenant part of its culture and as an AC fan I dont want a better game: I want the best. I think this should be understandable as a citizen of Istanbul like many others.

Conniving_Eagle
06-08-2011, 07:26 PM
I agree with you very much. I'm from Slovenia, a small country in western europe, also situated on the Mediterrainean(Adriatic, more specifically). In the gameplay, it seemed like they were trying to make Istanbul seem like a more middle-eastern place. It reminded me of Damascus from AC1. While the Muslim culture does have a good amount of influence in Turkey, Turkey is not in the middle east. I don't know if the lighting of the map is always the same, but the Mediterrainean is not like that. I don't know if it was just because it was kind of sunset, but the lighting should have been more like it was in Rome, if the demo was during the day of course. Again, you're right about the trees, I don't know about northern Africa, with places like Morocco, etc, but I've never seen any Palm trees in Europe. Not too sure about Turkey, though.

gsosolidk
06-08-2011, 07:39 PM
Things do change in 200 years...
We saw a clip of the game, a game which is definitely not a finished product yet, and we saw one little area of Constantinople.

My country, or city for that matter, doesn't have many trees but when I go to the park there's hundreds. Do you get what I mean? It's one area. It doesn't represent the whole city. Constantinople may not generally have a lot of palm trees, but this one section might have had. In game, the rest of the place might have none! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

albertwesker22
06-08-2011, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by gsosolidk:
Things do change in 200 years...
We saw a clip of the game, a game which is definitely not a finished product yet, and we saw one little area of Constantinople.

My country, or city for that matter, doesn't have many trees but when I go to the park there's hundreds. Do you get what I mean? It's one area. It doesn't represent the whole city. Constantinople may not generally have a lot of palm trees, but this one section might have had. In game, the rest of the place might have none! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Yeah, and some parts of my English city have small area's that look like China but other parts don't! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You're missing the point here.

Conniving_Eagle
06-08-2011, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by gsosolidk:
Things do change in 200 years...
We saw a clip of the game, a game which is definitely not a finished product yet, and we saw one little area of Constantinople.

My country, or city for that matter, doesn't have many trees but when I go to the park there's hundreds. Do you get what I mean? It's one area. It doesn't represent the whole city. Constantinople may not generally have a lot of palm trees, but this one section might have had. In game, the rest of the place might have none! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Even if it was 500 years ago, it's not like America. People didn't come there and plant foreign trees in the area. People were living in Turkey alot longer than people have lived in America. Even if there are palm trees, there shouldn't be that many, especially in Europe. Well, I don't know about ALL of Turkey, but Istanbul is in the European continent. But they had nothing but palm trees. Well, Ubisoft do their research though, so no one can really say.

Mic_92
06-08-2011, 08:04 PM
Interesting read OP but I don't think it really matters. Then again, it's not my city so I don't really take it personal.

Thanks for posting those pictures too, Istanbul is a very beautiful city.

karataht
06-08-2011, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
I agree with you very much. I'm from Slovenia, a small country in western europe, also situated on the Mediterrainean(Adriatic, more specifically). In the gameplay, it seemed like they were trying to make Istanbul seem like a more middle-eastern place. It reminded me of Damascus from AC1.

Totally agree with you. Istanbul seems like Cairo or Baghdad or other middleeastern cities in the game demo. It seems Houses or other consturctions are builded sand based materials.

But now, If you look at the anchient buildings, old houses, palaces, baths or search documents and paintings you ll notice that they have been build mostly by wood, stone bricks, granite, clay or marble but not sand.

This is what I try to explain and this is why I posted these Istanbul pictures before.

look at this picture from Cairo: Sultan Hassan Mosque.(Do you notice palm trees in front of the mosque?)


http://saratours.de/files/mosque-of-sultan-hasan-cairo-egypt.jpg


I felt this atmosphere from the demo:


http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/00/12/2e/9a/view-of-cairo-from-the.jpg

Blind2Society
06-08-2011, 09:56 PM
For some reason I have never seen the city of Istanbul and my assumption of it was pretty close to what the ACR demo showed. Now seeing this, I realise how wrong I was. I agree with the OP and I'm somewhat dissapointed by this. However, I'm sure I will love the game regardless.

karataht
06-08-2011, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by gsosolidk:
Things do change in 200 years...
We saw a clip of the game, a game which is definitely not a finished product yet, and we saw one little area of Constantinople.

My country, or city for that matter, doesn't have many trees but when I go to the park there's hundreds. Do you get what I mean? It's one area. It doesn't represent the whole city. Constantinople may not generally have a lot of palm trees, but this one section might have had. In game, the rest of the place might have none! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Well you cant see the big picture or dont want to. Ok. I m gonna try:

You and people who are repating same thing like you, reminding this unbelivable idea: "Things do change in 200 years". Alright then... According to this point of view 200 years ago there could be palm trees in Sweden as well or polar bears were feeding themselves from the iceplanes of Africa.

Do you think we are idiots or what? This idea which you support is totally against to science.

Otherwise, what you MUST understand about palm trees is something different. PALM TREE is an important SYMBOL. Its always used to describe desert lands, hot and dry places or tropical places but not mediterranean or oceanic places. So If you set up so many palm trees in Istanbul and support this situation with a yellow sandy atmosphere, everything changes. Then you have to call that city as ISTANBUL shaped CAIRO.

ThaWhistle
06-08-2011, 10:50 PM
nice post, tourism board of istanbul http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ThaWhistle
06-08-2011, 10:51 PM
but it looks like they are trying to make constantinople/istanbul less greek and romany with the new turkish influence and more full out near easty.

karataht
06-08-2011, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by ThaWhistle:
but it looks like they are trying to make constantinople/istanbul less greek and romany with the new turkish influence and more full out near easty.

Yes they are but this is not the right way to choose. In 1511 it passed only about 50 years after the Ottoman invasion. According to Ottoman tradition, massacre has been forbidden and the greek citizens have continued their lives. So its not possible to convert whole city so quickly.
Even Hagia Sophia has only 2-3 minarets in this era. the fourth minaret has been added in 1574. We see four minarets in the game but this is less important than the city atmosphere.

UBOSOFT-Gamer
06-09-2011, 04:47 AM
i agree with the threadstarter, but i think the devs used palm trees to give something new.

we had trees in ac2 in acb. the devs proaply thought "ok, not again. let's use palm trees"

i haven't noticed the palm trees, but after i recognize i do feel a bit disapointed. nevertheless i think it will be good game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

the same thing with masyaf. in reallity no mountians, just desert. look in google earth.

but i guess the devs choosed it, because they touhgt mountains looks cooler then just a brown wide boring desert.

IIwangcarsII
06-09-2011, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by karataht:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gsosolidk:
Things do change in 200 years...
We saw a clip of the game, a game which is definitely not a finished product yet, and we saw one little area of Constantinople.

My country, or city for that matter, doesn't have many trees but when I go to the park there's hundreds. Do you get what I mean? It's one area. It doesn't represent the whole city. Constantinople may not generally have a lot of palm trees, but this one section might have had. In game, the rest of the place might have none! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Well you cant see the big picture or dont want to. Ok. I m gonna try:

You and people who are repating same thing like you, reminding this unbelivable idea: "Things do change in 200 years". Alright then... According to this point of view 200 years ago there could be palm trees in Sweden as well or polar bears were feeding themselves from the iceplanes of Africa.

Do you think we are idiots or what? This idea which you support is totally against to science.

Otherwise, what you MUST understand about palm trees is something different. PALM TREE is an important SYMBOL. Its always used to describe desert lands, hot and dry places or tropical places but not mediterranean or oceanic places. So If you set up so many palm trees in Istanbul and support this situation with a yellow sandy atmosphere, everything changes. Then you have to call that city as ISTANBUL shaped CAIRO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you are trying to say it is not scientifically possible to have palm trees in Europe? Well how come when I went to Spain, there were palm trees there. And even last year when I went to Turkey, there were palm trees planted at the sides of the roads. You clearly know nothing about science if you think palm trees cant survive in Turkey's climate.

albertwesker22
06-09-2011, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by JetChrisUK: So you are trying to say it is not scientifically possible to have palm trees in Europe? Well how come when I went to Spain, there were palm trees there. And even last year when I went to Turkey, there were palm trees planted at the sides of the roads. You clearly know nothing about science if you think palm trees cant survive in Turkey's climate.

The game takes place in 1511, not 2011. At first you made a decent point, but now you're just being a stubborn idiot.

Palm trees are not native in most places in Europe. There are Palm tree's here in England, but they were planted, they don't just grow here. Same with Istanbul. People in Turkey wouldn't just plant palm tree's in huge numbers.

The hazy yellow atmosphere, and the palm trees make it pretty clear that they are trying to make the city look like its in the near East. Its very stereotypical on part of the devs. Like they just said, "well Istanbul is a Muslim city, so lets make it look like Desert, because to the average Yank and Brit, Muslims=Desert"

Turkiye96
06-09-2011, 07:41 AM
yea i thing they used designs from ac1 so thats why its got that arabic feel to it. i was pretty dissapointed in it but im pretty sure the climate of Istanbul have been relativly the same over the past couple of centuries.
I still love the game and the fact that its here in Istanbul :P

albertwesker22
06-09-2011, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by Turkiye96:
yea i thing they used designs from ac1 so thats why its got that arabic feel to it. i was pretty dissapointed in it but im pretty sure the climate of Istanbul have been relativly the same over the past couple of centuries.
I still love the game and the fact that its here in Istanbul :P

Well if we go by JetChrisUK's theory... Istanbul was a desert in 1511, but the sand had all blown out by 2011.

twenty_glyphs
06-09-2011, 08:40 AM
I don't think they're trying to make the city look like a desert with orange sand. I think the orange sand is coming from the dramatic lighting of a sunrise/sunset that they've been showing off a lot of the screenshots with. One of the pictures released shows the city in completely different colors because the sun is higher in the sky and producing much more white light instead of orange.

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/117/1172904/assassins-creed-revelations-20110606095321528_640w.jpg (http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/76574/assassins-creed-revelations/images/assassins-creed-revelations-20110606095321528.html)

karataht
06-09-2011, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by JetChrisUK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by karataht:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gsosolidk:
Things do change in 200 years...
We saw a clip of the game, a game which is definitely not a finished product yet, and we saw one little area of Constantinople.

My country, or city for that matter, doesn't have many trees but when I go to the park there's hundreds. Do you get what I mean? It's one area. It doesn't represent the whole city. Constantinople may not generally have a lot of palm trees, but this one section might have had. In game, the rest of the place might have none! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Well you cant see the big picture or dont want to. Ok. I m gonna try:

You and people who are repating same thing like you, reminding this unbelivable idea: "Things do change in 200 years". Alright then... According to this point of view 200 years ago there could be palm trees in Sweden as well or polar bears were feeding themselves from the iceplanes of Africa.

Do you think we are idiots or what? This idea which you support is totally against to science.

Otherwise, what you MUST understand about palm trees is something different. PALM TREE is an important SYMBOL. Its always used to describe desert lands, hot and dry places or tropical places but not mediterranean or oceanic places. So If you set up so many palm trees in Istanbul and support this situation with a yellow sandy atmosphere, everything changes. Then you have to call that city as ISTANBUL shaped CAIRO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you are trying to say it is not scientifically possible to have palm trees in Europe? Well how come when I went to Spain, there were palm trees there. And even last year when I went to Turkey, there were palm trees planted at the sides of the roads. You clearly know nothing about science if you think palm trees cant survive in Turkey's climate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



After so many comments and posts written here, its left nothing to say anymore. I tried to explain my doubts, troubles. I suppose people understood what I mean. But you... Anyway...
So discussing with you is wasting time. Sorry.

lukaszep
06-09-2011, 09:01 AM
Okay i'm gonna try to stay impartial on this, but my take on it is, they're trying to reflect the culture of the city at that time. It was called the crossroads for a reason. I personally don't really see much desert like conditions. In fact i don't see any, but i don't see as much plant life as shown in the first post either. I think when you look at how much detail they've put into the game, even the boats look like they belong there, i think you have to appreciate how much detail and effort has gone into what is there, and really they have to think about the practicality of the city. If there was vegetation EVERYWHERE it would make free running and combat more complex, and would also take alot of time to perhaps render and put into the game when they want to spend as much time on polishing the game as they can.

Noble6
06-09-2011, 09:08 AM
Great post OP http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif. Some fanboys just think that Ubisoft cant make mistakes.These little things Are important for right atmosphere.

karataht
06-09-2011, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
I don't think they're trying to make the city look like a desert with orange sand. I think the orange sand is coming from the dramatic lighting of a sunrise/sunset that they've been showing off a lot of the screenshots with. One of the pictures released shows the city in completely different colors because the sun is higher in the sky and producing much more white light instead of orange.

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/117/1172904/assassins-creed-revelations-20110606095321528_640w.jpg (http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/76574/assassins-creed-revelations/images/assassins-creed-revelations-20110606095321528.html)


I ve got a picture as well and it is closer to my expectations. Look at this picture; I may clearly say this is more Istanbul; no palm trees, vegetation and constructions are really nice, no desert effect. This atmosphere is what I wish from developers.

As you see, when you change the vegetation, its changed the atmosphere as well. I hope developers place this perspective to the game.

http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/screenshots/AssassinsCreedRevelations/acr_sp_sc_06b_comparisonconstantinople_ingame_copy .jpg

Turkiye96
06-09-2011, 09:21 AM
id just like to clear some stuff up
i really dont think the plam trees are used as a symbol of Turkey beeing middle eastern
the only reason i dislike the whole look is because its sooo different to the real thing ( even though it was a couple of centuries ago the vegetation and terrain should be the same) as it makes it unrealistic im sure if they said the next game was based in London and looked like china people would oppose as its too hard to believe. Istanbul has not been a desert since people first settled there ( and im pretty sure for thousands of years before that too). yes palm tree can survive in Istanbul ( back in 1511 aswell) but that doesn't mean they randomly apeared in there. e.g. just coz lions can live in texas doesn't mean they will be there... and a correction, Masayaf was on mountainous terrain. finally its just one part of the city. as shown by the pic above, we will get to see some proper realistic vegetation too

now guys lets stop arguing...

iMBUE_
06-09-2011, 09:40 AM
It's a funny thing, people complaining about a game on the games forums. Funny because if they complained about the previous 3 games, they also probably purchased them and dealt with the issues they had; myself included.

Life revolves around one thing, always, and that is money. While Ubisoft will try their best to represent Istanbul, that doesn't mean they will go hardcore and get every aspect of it right. They will make it how they want us to see it and how they think it best fits into the games story, up to this point, so we will continue to purchase it.

Really, palm trees?

Trees... Funny.

I'm more concerned with them delaying the PC release, as should all PC players.

AEKTZIS_1921
06-09-2011, 05:05 PM
"Since 1453 muslims, christians, jews etc lived in peace together under the Ottoman rule and they still live in Republic of Turkey."

how ironic.....how come my great grandfather was forced to flea from turkey in 1922 along with 1,500,000 others greeks. and today only 2.500 greeks remain even though we have been the indigenous inhabitants since 800BC?

SteelCity999
06-09-2011, 06:21 PM
In response to the OP's point, gameinformer had a video regading the research that went into designing the city for the game. I believe they took over 20,000 pictures and 10 hours of video in 2 weeks of time on 2 separate visits. Sometimes game design dictates what they do and the palm trees just may be there to keep the space more open for climbing, combat, etc. If you had a bunch of big fluffy trees there wouldn't be many sightlines for anything. Not to mention, Ubi has never recreated a city exactly how it is due to system restraints or it not fitting in the story. But if you want to talk about not being true to the city, all you need to do is look at AC2 and Florence. No Baptistry in front of the Santa Maria del Fiore. This is about as major of a flaw as you can get.

Syler99
06-10-2011, 10:32 AM
I'm happy we're going back to the middle east for and Israel for Rev. Maybe because of the atmosphere the first AC created. I also loved the uber free roam and the ability to go between several cities compared to AC2 - AC3 were you where stuck in one city.

I hope in AC4 we get to go to even more cities at free will once we play that city once. I hope we get more to do and buy there too I don't want to be so huge in the real estate department that I can just evict the Borgia like AC3 did.

Maybe more things can come up after the game is completed cuz in ME3 I was stuck with buying real estate, clothing, and weapons and that was it for my playthough which sucked.

D173120T
06-10-2011, 11:55 AM
seeing as Constantinople was the crossroads for trade at that time for most of the known world,why wouldnt they have palm trees?Dates are a favourite of Arabic and some mediteranian peoples,so it fits that there would be some Palm trees.I think they have captured the "essence" of Medieval Constantinople perfectly.I love Hagia Sophia,very nicely rendered,and cant wait to see an inside shot of it.

albertwesker22
06-10-2011, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Syler99:
I'm happy we're going back to the middle east for and Israel for Rev. Maybe because of the atmosphere the first AC created.

We're not really going back to the Middle East. Masyaf is probably the only part of the Middle East we'll see(excluding the one district in Istanbul thats in Asia)

They still have the maps from AC 1, its a long shot, but maybe we'll get to go to small parts of Jerusalem, Acre and Damascus for War Machines style missions.

Turkiye96
06-10-2011, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by AEKTZIS_1921:
"Since 1453 muslims, christians, jews etc lived in peace together under the Ottoman rule and they still live in Republic of Turkey."

how ironic.....how come my great grandfather was forced to flea from turkey in 1922 along with 1,500,000 others greeks. and today only 2.500 greeks remain even though we have been the indigenous inhabitants since 800BC?

Yes, it was called the "Convention Concerning the Exchange of Greek and Turkish Populations" was signed at Lausanne, Switzerland, on the 30th January 1923, by the governments of Greece and Turkey. so Greece agreed to this (dont just blame it on Turks)and Turks had to move from Greece aswell! it was a swap of Greeks back to Greece and Turks back to Turkey)( at the time the 2 countries hated eachother and it wasn't safe for Turks to be in Greece or for Greeks to be in Turkey stop blaming us, i don't wana argue and continue this silly rivaly. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

albertwesker22
06-10-2011, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Turkiye96:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AEKTZIS_1921:
"Since 1453 muslims, christians, jews etc lived in peace together under the Ottoman rule and they still live in Republic of Turkey."

how ironic.....how come my great grandfather was forced to flea from turkey in 1922 along with 1,500,000 others greeks. and today only 2.500 greeks remain even though we have been the indigenous inhabitants since 800BC?

Yes, it was called the "Convention Concerning the Exchange of Greek and Turkish Populations" was signed at Lausanne, Switzerland, on the 30th January 1923, by the governments of Greece and Turkey. so Greece agreed to this (dont just blame it on Turks)and Turks had to move from Greece aswell! it was a swap of Greeks back to Greece and Turks back to Turkey)( at the time the 2 countries hated eachother and it wasn't safe for Turks to be in Greece or for Greeks to be in Turkey stop blaming us, i din't wana argue and continue this silly rivaly. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, yes...Let it go man, if we all had to justify our Countries past deeds, then I would have a hard time here, as I'm English.

Just ignore him.

Chamboozer
06-10-2011, 02:02 PM
Vegetation should be much more common than it is even today. Consider how in 1453 the city had become so poor under Byzantine rule that parts of the city (inside the walls) which had been urban were turned into farmland by 1453.

The weather of Constantinople was quite unique, which is part of why it had been so hard to capture. It's certainly nothing like a desert, and it also saw many freezing cold winters - devastating for invading armies. Warm Mediterranean climate mixed with the cold currents from the Black Sea made it very strange sometimes.

Captain Tomatoz
06-10-2011, 02:37 PM
The way assassin's creed deals with historical inaccuracies is that you only know what the templars want you to know. In ac1 desmond asks vidic why some of the things in the animus were inaccurate and vidic says that books and stuff aren't always correct.

He says this:

"I believe there was a book that claimed the world was created in seven days. Best-seller too!"

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Chamboozer
06-10-2011, 02:53 PM
That doesn't make sense in this context though. In this case we aren't comparing what we're looking at with what is in a history book, but with what is right in front of our faces.

Captain Tomatoz
06-10-2011, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Chamboozer:
That doesn't make sense in this context though. In this case we aren't comparing what we're looking at with what is in a history book, but with what is right in front of our faces.

but as what was said before, times change and maybe them trees were there and were taken away but the books and things don't mention them being there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Chamboozer
06-10-2011, 03:17 PM
Yeah that line of logic can be stretched verrry far I guess. Still, I think we all agree that it's preferable to make it accurate, if at all possible. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

xx-pyro
06-10-2011, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Tony6593:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chamboozer:
That doesn't make sense in this context though. In this case we aren't comparing what we're looking at with what is in a history book, but with what is right in front of our faces.

but as what was said before, times change and maybe them trees were there and were taken away but the books and things don't mention them being there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because climates don't change that quickly, lol.

albertwesker22
06-10-2011, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by xx-pyro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tony6593:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chamboozer:
That doesn't make sense in this context though. In this case we aren't comparing what we're looking at with what is in a history book, but with what is right in front of our faces.

but as what was said before, times change and maybe them trees were there and were taken away but the books and things don't mention them being there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because climates don't change that quickly, lol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, 500 years is a blink of an eye.

Gasketfuse
06-11-2011, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by albertwesker22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xx-pyro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tony6593:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chamboozer:
That doesn't make sense in this context though. In this case we aren't comparing what we're looking at with what is in a history book, but with what is right in front of our faces.

but as what was said before, times change and maybe them trees were there and were taken away but the books and things don't mention them being there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because climates don't change that quickly, lol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, 500 years is a blink of an eye. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>In this case, yes.

albertwesker22
06-11-2011, 05:27 AM
In this case, yes.

Yeah, I was agreeing with you.

karataht
06-19-2011, 01:11 PM
Do you have any idea if officials read these posts or not?

I have been waiting for days an official reply, comment etc...

Calvarok
06-19-2011, 02:21 PM
I think a lot of that vegetation in those pictures has been planted recently. They didn't have perfectly manicured parks and flower gardens 200 years ago.

Knowing Ubisoft, they are only going to include types of vegetation that actually existed in constantinople those many years ago, and they have looked at paintings of the city from that era. They don't recreate the city exactly to scale, and they take some liberties with how many streets there are and how wide theya re, but all in all, they do the best job they can. If you go to Rome nowadays, the entire area where the colleseum was is in the middle of the city. In fact, the entire area of Rome 200 years ago is now a small part of the center of it. Things change. Even trees.
EDIT: also, checkit: http://assassinscreed.wikia.co...ict_Hagia_Sophia.png (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/File:Imperial_district_Hagia_Sophia.png)

See how the trees in-game are the same as the ones in the real life picture? Have faith.

karataht
06-19-2011, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
I think a lot of that vegetation in those pictures has been planted recently. They didn't have perfectly manicured parks and flower gardens 200 years ago.

Knowing Ubisoft, they are only going to include types of vegetation that actually existed in constantinople those many years ago, and they have looked at paintings of the city from that era. They don't recreate the city exactly to scale, and they take some liberties with how many streets there are and how wide theya re, but all in all, they do the best job they can. If you go to Rome nowadays, the entire area where the colleseum was is in the middle of the city. In fact, the entire area of Rome 200 years ago is now a small part of the center of it. Things change. Even trees.
EDIT: also, checkit: http://assassinscreed.wikia.co...ict_Hagia_Sophia.png (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/File:Imperial_district_Hagia_Sophia.png)

See how the trees in-game are the same as the ones in the real life picture? Have faith.


If you have read my previous posts, you would notice that I posted the same picture and written my satisfaction about it.

My conserns are about E3 Gameplay Demo. Please read my previous posts.

And please stop repeating this "200 years" rubbish. Everyone knows that general vegetation and climate are not changed significantly in 200-500 years.
Well I understand you love AC series and Ubisoft. I have a great respect as well. This is why I try to point out the problems. But you support an irrational theory to defend this kind of mistake like we watched in E3 gameplay demo.

Calvarok
06-19-2011, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by karataht:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
I think a lot of that vegetation in those pictures has been planted recently. They didn't have perfectly manicured parks and flower gardens 200 years ago.

Knowing Ubisoft, they are only going to include types of vegetation that actually existed in constantinople those many years ago, and they have looked at paintings of the city from that era. They don't recreate the city exactly to scale, and they take some liberties with how many streets there are and how wide theya re, but all in all, they do the best job they can. If you go to Rome nowadays, the entire area where the colleseum was is in the middle of the city. In fact, the entire area of Rome 200 years ago is now a small part of the center of it. Things change. Even trees.
EDIT: also, checkit: http://assassinscreed.wikia.co...ict_Hagia_Sophia.png (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/File:Imperial_district_Hagia_Sophia.png)

See how the trees in-game are the same as the ones in the real life picture? Have faith.


If you have read my previous posts, you would notice that I posted the same picture and written my satisfaction about it.

My conserns are about E3 Gameplay Demo. Please read my previous posts.

And please stop repeating this "200 years" rubbish. Everyone knows that general vegetation and climate are not changed significantly in 200-500 years.
Well I understand you love AC series and Ubisoft. I have a great respect as well. This is why I try to point out the problems. But you support an irrational theory to defend this kind of mistake like we watched in E3 gameplay demo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My theory is that they are using trees that plausibly could have been in that place. Maybe they weren't, but it's possible they could have been. It's just to add some variety. Ubisoft has said that they don't perfectly copy out every last detail, and use some creative licence to make things work for game-play and look varied.

I understand that 200 years cannot naturally change the kind of trees in a place, but 200 years of human interference can mean new species of plants/trees are introduced, and a lot of landscaping occurs.

That's what I meant.

I'm sorry I skipped past where you posted that picture. Didn't want to read 3 pages. : P

ediblebuk2011
06-20-2011, 10:20 AM
I agree with you.istanbul isn't cairo or baghdad.not now,not past.i live in istanbul for 20 years and ? didn't see palm or sand.please fix this

this is true istanbul.green and blue

http://www.resimupload.org/data/media/496/ayasofya-muzesi.jpg

this is ACR istanbul.sand,palm and yellow

http://i56.tinypic.com/1zqeequ.jpg

real istanbul

http://www.ogrensek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/rumeli-hisari-resim.jpg

ACR istanbul with palm and sand

http://i55.tinypic.com/11lkfox.jpg

more palm and sand

http://i51.tinypic.com/slsfh4.jpg

istanbul

http://www.yapi.com.tr/V_Images/2009/haberler/66091_istanbul_02.jpg

NOT istanbul

http://i54.tinypic.com/2ykcrbr.jpg

Greek ?stanbul

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Schedel_konstantinopel.jpg/369px-Schedel_konstantinopel.jpg

Ottoman ?stanbul

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/images/2009_12_30/the-ottoman-fountains-of-istanbul-2009-12-30_l.jpg

istanbul,rome,madrid,athens are same climate.but istanbul is desert !?!!!?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/ClimateMap_World.png

Calvarok
06-20-2011, 02:34 PM
You do realize that thee was no actual sand or desert shown in the video. It's just a sunny day. The reasoning for having different trees at the harbour is to make the separate district of the city seem more distinct. Maybe they weren't there in real life, but they're not making a carbon copy of the city. It's somewhat stylized. Just like they did with Rome and every other AC city.

El_Sjietah
06-20-2011, 02:53 PM
The blind, absolute loyalty to Ubisoft on these boards keeps surprising me.

How can anyone defend such an obvious screw up?

Sure, it's not a gamebreaker, but that doesn't make it correct.

kriegerdesgottes
06-20-2011, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by JetChrisUK:
Are you 200 years old? I thought not. There is no way you could possibly know what Istanbul looked like in the 15th century. Which is why you cant criticize Ubisofts hard work. I mean I wouldnt know what my city was like in the 15th century. Things change, aswell as climate. And ubisoft only showed us one glimpse of a district so there is no knowing what the overall effect of the city will be until we own the game.

You would have to be more than 200 years old to know what Constantinople looked like in the 15th century. You'd need to be more like 600 years old.

utku89
06-20-2011, 04:05 PM
He says he lives in this city, he knows the city and the answers like:
"If you don't like it, do not buy it"
is this your answer? Are you really so simple? We do criticize because we love the game.

And please, do not comment with your assumptions, "things change, you can't know" is not an answer to that problem. I have been in Venice and Rome, so I know these cities and I want same quality on realisation of Istanbul. I live in Istanbul, I know its climate, I know its vegetation, I know its historical places' atmospheres, and I know it has never been like Cairo or Damascus. The buldings does not seem to made by sand, Istanbul got fertile soil, not sand, and this soil was not brought here by someone or something, if Istanbul will be like Damascus, it will be just the lack of design, nothing else.

I say these as a customer who have all of the Assassin's Creed PC games, and I have the right to criticize.
I hope they reconsider this situation.

AEKTZIS_1921
06-21-2011, 01:03 PM
no such place as Greek instanbul....its Konstantinoupoli re hayvan.....[comment removed]

karataht
06-21-2011, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by AEKTZIS_1921:
no such place as Greek instanbul....its Konstantinoupoli re hayvan.....[comment removed]

let me translate:

he/she swears:
[comment removed]
"its Konstantinoupoli re hayvan" (hayvan means animal)

so this is an insult and hatred speech. I suppose it is forbidden. I hope officials ll do what they have to do and wont give any permition to provocations like this.

-

English: I warn people not to be provoked. Please stay calm and dont answer that post.
Turkish: Arkada?lar sakin olup sükunetinizi koruyun, ciddiye al?p küfretmeyin. Hakl?yken haks?z konuma dü?meyin.

Blind2Society
06-21-2011, 05:55 PM
Again, I agree with the OP on this one. If all of Istanbul is like the demo, then I have to say, Ubisoft really dopped the ball on this one. Historical accuracy when speaking location has always been a main aspect of this series (save for Masyaf). This turn towards inaccuracy is a big let down IMO. It seems they did this to make the location ressemble AC1, with the palm trees, dusty air and orange glow.

masterfenix2009
06-21-2011, 06:26 PM
I can't really say its that bad. I mean if Ubisoft made my city,and it looked nothing alike, I would just go "Oh look. This is not my city. Oh well who cares."

El_Sjietah
06-21-2011, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by assassino151:
I can't really say its that bad. I mean if Ubisoft made my city,and it looked nothing alike, I would just go "Oh look. This is not my city. Oh well who cares."
The adaptation of history into its sotry is a huge part of the AC franchise. Applying the wrong climate to the main setting of an AC game is not only a gross oversight, it's also a sign of sloppy research, which doesn't bode well for the historic setting's adaptation as a whole.

masterfenix2009
06-21-2011, 06:52 PM
Well,yeah thats true. Your right it is important. Not the biggest thing to me, but most people want it,so by default it is important. What I'm wondering if they took 20,000 pics and a 10 hour vid, how did they get so sloppy.

Blind2Society
06-21-2011, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by assassino151:
What I'm wondering if they took 20,000 pics and a 10 hour vid, how did they get so sloppy.
That is a mighty fine question, but given the little bit we witnessed, they did.

I think what they did was misinterpret our comments about liking certain aspects of AC1 more than the other games. Unfortunately for us, instead of including the good parts of AC1 they made Istanbul feel like and AC1 location. Then again, I could just be talking out my arse http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Dagio12
06-21-2011, 08:26 PM
I totally understand where people are coming from when it comes to something as big as this. They have always been so good at being as accurate as possible ( as close as can be for something that is 500+ years ago anyways.)

I don't wanna sound to positive, as an avid reader of these forums it seems like anyone that has anything positive to say about AC gets it thrown back in there face that they are just kissing ubisofts buttocks, but my thoughts are that there are probably good reasons why they are doing what they are doing. I'm not gonna claim that I know a whole lot about the history of Istanbul, cause I don't, but perhaps back in the 1500s there was a little more of that middle eastern cultural influence then what we see today. If this was the case, then maybe this is just a method for the devs to give us that feel but in a more aesthetic way (doesnt mean there were a lot of palm trees there, but its a good visual representation to use to get the feel across to a broad audience). Another reason could simply be for gameplay purposes.. the bigger more realistic trees may have just got in the way of other visuals and smaller thinner palm trees worked better. Another reason could be, as someone else mentioned, just a quick and effective way to split the districts to really make them feel more separated and varied.

The E3 demo showed such a small portion of the game, its almost not fair to make to many assumptions right now IMO. If you watch the video, in one of the scenes, you can actually see some of those more realistic trees in the background.. so who knows what else is out there.

As far as the sand goes... I wouldn't really say I saw a lot of "sand" per se. The sun was obviously setting giving that yellowish tint... that along with the sea water, and the palm trees gives you that illusion of the sandy environment. To me it looked more like wind blowing dirt around. The streets/ walkways looked like they were made of stone ( as I don't think cement and paved roads for cars were really an option back then).

Don't get me wrong, I agree that they may have made it look a little to much like damascus or places like that, but it could just be the area of the demo mixed with the sunset etc... It could also be like that on purpose, to give us something different then the Italy based AC games.

I honestly don't believe this is an oversight on Ubisofts part when they have plenty of articles talking about how they took thousands of pictures and videos and even came out with the magazine article pictures that showed the vegetation to be more true to life. They know what it looks like and IMO have a reason for what they did, or we are just being way to premature in our assumptions.

Calvarok
06-22-2011, 06:20 PM
Yeah, there was literally no sand. It's just the sun on the stone. I also don't believe that Ubisoft did this "by accident". They have pictures of these locations, they k now what they look like. They've talked before of how they haven't recreated any city pixel for pixel the way it was, for gameplay and asthetic reasons. To make Constantinople look a little more like the center of the world, it has influences from various parts of the world. And that includes some trees that might not have actually been in the city. Just like all the other AC's have had buildings that weren't actually in the cities, as well as cliffs and hills that weren't there, but reflect the theme of the area.

It's not a perfect recreation, it's a stylized recreation with things that were added to capture the mood of the city, even if they might not have looked exactly like that.

Blind2Society
06-22-2011, 06:50 PM
I don't understand how dusty desert looking air and palm trees reflect the theme of an area and capture the mood of an area that has never had either of them.

Again, this isn't really all that big of a deal for me but if the entire city appears the way the demo did I will be disappointed.

Hopefully these people are correct when they say it was all just because it was around sunset and the palms trees are there just to make the city less cluttered. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

karataht
06-22-2011, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by SF2themax:
I totally understand where people are coming from when it comes to something as big as this. They have always been so good at being as accurate as possible ( as close as can be for something that is 500+ years ago anyways.)

I don't wanna sound to positive, as an avid reader of these forums it seems like anyone that has anything positive to say about AC gets it thrown back in there face that they are just kissing ubisofts buttocks, but my thoughts are that there are probably good reasons why they are doing what they are doing. I'm not gonna claim that I know a whole lot about the history of Istanbul, cause I don't, but perhaps back in the 1500s there was a little more of that middle eastern cultural influence then what we see today. If this was the case, then maybe this is just a method for the devs to give us that feel but in a more aesthetic way (doesnt mean there were a lot of palm trees there, but its a good visual representation to use to get the feel across to a broad audience). Another reason could simply be for gameplay purposes.. the bigger more realistic trees may have just got in the way of other visuals and smaller thinner palm trees worked better. Another reason could be, as someone else mentioned, just a quick and effective way to split the districts to really make them feel more separated and varied.

The E3 demo showed such a small portion of the game, its almost not fair to make to many assumptions right now IMO. If you watch the video, in one of the scenes, you can actually see some of those more realistic trees in the background.. so who knows what else is out there.

As far as the sand goes... I wouldn't really say I saw a lot of "sand" per se. The sun was obviously setting giving that yellowish tint... that along with the sea water, and the palm trees gives you that illusion of the sandy environment. To me it looked more like wind blowing dirt around. The streets/ walkways looked like they were made of stone ( as I don't think cement and paved roads for cars were really an option back then).

Don't get me wrong, I agree that they may have made it look a little to much like damascus or places like that, but it could just be the area of the demo mixed with the sunset etc... It could also be like that on purpose, to give us something different then the Italy based AC games.

I honestly don't believe this is an oversight on Ubisofts part when they have plenty of articles talking about how they took thousands of pictures and videos and even came out with the magazine article pictures that showed the vegetation to be more true to life. They know what it looks like and IMO have a reason for what they did, or we are just being way to premature in our assumptions.


Fromy my first post to the last, I never mentioned about cultural influence as a problem. As a result of the conquest of Istanbul by the Ottomans in 1453 , its so reasonable and rational there is cultural influence in the city. And also that makes Istanbul a different city. I mean I love the mixcultural conditions of Istanbul.

Otherwise I liked the demo. The sounds, behaviors of people, clotches etc. were nice. For example it was forbiden in that era "the courtesans" and Ubisoft removed and replaced them with Romani people. This was a brilliant job for realism. Romani poeple still live in the city, they are known as skilled musicians and they are a spesific part of the city culture.

But yes there is a chronical problem about this subject as well. Especialy western civilizations have a common idea like: all muslim or middle eastern civilization = desert civilizations. Also this is thinking like all Japanese people are samurais and they wear always kimonos or every Japanese people know karate.
So the VEGETATION and CLIMATE are not involved with CULTURAL influence, these are independent things. Trying to represent cultural influence with climate and vegetation is not the right choice for Ubisoft. This was not Ubisoft's way. This is the dissappointing part.

Blind2Society
06-23-2011, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by karataht:
this is thinking like all Japanese people are samurais. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif



Originally posted by karataht:
So the VEGETATION and CLIMATE are not involved with CULTURAL influence, these are independent things. Trying to represent cultural influence with climate and vegetation is not the right choice for Ubisoft. This was not Ubisoft's way. This is the dissappointing part.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Again, we did only see a small part of the game so we could be porven wrong.

I would like to say, the multicultural aspect of this game is such an awesome move. This will make the crowd feel much more real. Though I doubt it will happen, I hope npcs from different cultures have different animations and comments as well as accents (obviously http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

halahsumul
06-23-2011, 05:54 AM
hello there.

well i read all the topic and decided to sign up in order to share my opinions as an istanbul citizen also. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'Ve been living in ?stanbul like 25 years but as everybody said, one can never know how did it look like 500 years ago. but as you can see, i said "you can't know". that doesn't mean you can't guess or predict about it's history.(climate, weather etc.)

what i see "bothering" in gameplay video is the trees and the sandy/yellow weather. ok, we know 500 years ago, istanbul was something else. but there are so many historical writings which describe it after the conquering of istanbul from byzantinum empire. one says "there were some many trees that you can move from one side to the other on the trees". yet those trees were plane trees as some of you may know. like in this picture taken from istanbul also;

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_f7l9D5E81cY/TS9iH1dV6BI/AAAAAAAAAMo/r6eV4jMxO1U/s1600/plane-tree-kos.jpg

ok, except this i have to say other things. we turkish people are quite sensitive about our historical facts. we had so many misunderstandings, thanks to most of holywood movies in the late 20th century. till now, I have never seen such a game describes ?stanbul so amazing. you guys should know turkish and understand it how the people on the street in the beginning of the gameplay video talks "turkish". it's so pure, also named "istabul turkish". yet most of the americans still think turkish people speak arabic. I was amused. seeing The famous Covered Bazaar in ?stanbul, the guys smoking sischas(waterpipes). they are even sitting near the road because of the hot weather at summer. yet I heard the game starts at 15 june 1511. if this is the beginning of the game, it's so normal to have hot weather in istanbul.

But as karataht says, the ecology is quite different. I know in AC2 Brotherhood, the historical differences between 15th century Rome and todays didn't bother italians too much. but well, it bothers us. because rome doesn't have to introduce itself quite correct. yet for me, it's the most beautiful city in Europe. however, if you are living in a world that people think istanbul as a city like Cairo, Damascus or Baghdad, then yes. you really want to see a proper, beautiful city that it's supposed to be.

I love this series, except AC Brotherhood, I bought AC and AC2 games and I enjoyed them so much. I'm gonna buy this game also (even the prices in Turkey are considerably high prior to US or European countries; almost like €90 per game). this is just a criticsm.

The facts of this game are really good, almost great.(the things that I told about language etc.) but I also agree one thing that karataht said; this is Ubisoft. And what I expect from Ubisoft is not the great, I expect the "Perfect".

See you lads, and aslo sorry for any grammer mistake that I made. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jacobmiles2010
06-23-2011, 06:59 AM
Okay, this is my interpretation of things...feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but it's just an idea. Remember in Assassins Creed 2 and Assassins Creed Brotherhood how Claudia always looked the same no matter what? Now it could be that the creators didn't want to make new models for the same character every time we saw her but it's been suggested that this was intentional as through the animus we see things how Ezio saw them...Claudia always looked like a child because Ezio always saw her as a child. Now, what if the same thing is in effect here?

Constantinopal/Istanbul has the same climate/fauna etc as Italy but to Ezio; who had always been in the west, from what we know to be either Spain or Italy the Ottonman Empire would appear to be this strange eastern place with strange customs and this religion that he wasn't that familiar with. Now, like how we saw Claudia constantly as a childwe will see Constantinople/Istanbul as this exaggerated eastern stereotype.

It's an idea at least, or at least how it could be if it turns out that it just wasn't a sunny evening

UBOSOFT-Gamer
06-23-2011, 07:42 AM
Just to make a statement. I dont know why the devs put in Palmtrees, but some people in this discussion act like palm trees were the only trees in Constantinople. It is not. See the pics to get the prove.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110527211561/assassinscreed/images/3/39/Imperial_district_Hagia_Sophia.png

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110506091757/assassinscreed/images/c/c6/Revelations_gameplay.jpg


http://walltopia.net/wp-content/uploads/walls/Assassin%E2%80%99s-Creed-Revelations-Constantinople.jpg

El_Sjietah
06-23-2011, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by UBOSOFT-Gamer:
Just to make a statement. I dont know why the devs put in Palmtrees, but some people in this discussion act like palm trees were the only trees in Constantinople. It is not. See the pics to get the prove.
<snip>
Thanks for those, they put my mind at ease.

It's still a tad brownish, but I guess that's just the norm in games these days.

karataht
06-23-2011, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Blind2Society:


Again, we did only see a small part of the game so we could be porven wrong.

I would like to say, the multicultural aspect of this game is such an awesome move. This will make the crowd feel much more real. Though I doubt it will happen, I hope npcs from different cultures have different animations and comments as well as accents (obviously http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)


This is my only hope that it was just a demo.

As you mentioned, there were living citizens who belong to different cultures, christians, muslims, jews, greeks, turks, italians and others... Istanbul was an important trade center as well. So probably it has been visited by many other different people who belong to different cultures, religions etc.

I hope Ubisoft wont choose the easiest way and will try to reflect this mixture with these elements above, but not with climate and vegetation.

utku89
06-26-2011, 06:40 PM
Moderators of the best (in my opinion) Turkish game magazine "Oyungezer" did an interview with the art Director of Assassin's Creed Revelations. You can watch it here:

http://www.viddler.com/explore...ezer/videos/606/4.6/ (http://www.viddler.com/explore/oyungezer/videos/606/4.6/)

He says in-game city will be quite identical to the real Istanbul. That video put my mind at ease.

Blind2Society
06-27-2011, 12:26 AM
I have not viewed it yet (gotta keep track of replies http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) but if what you say is true, I thank you kindly for posting it.

karataht
06-27-2011, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by utku_ozdemir:
Moderators of the best (in my opinion) Turkish game magazine "Oyungezer" did an interview with the art Director of Assassin's Creed Revelations. You can watch it here:

http://www.viddler.com/explore...ezer/videos/606/4.6/ (http://www.viddler.com/explore/oyungezer/videos/606/4.6/)

He says in-game city will be quite identical to the real Istanbul. That video put my mind at ease.

link is broken or video is not available. I tried to watch it from original website of oyungezer but also the video wasnt available there.

EmmaBemma
06-27-2011, 01:04 PM
Seeing as many of the pictures released involving Constantinople have "regular" trees, is it at all possible the palm trees in the demo were just "placeholders"? I don't know much about game development but I know it's not uncommon to stick a placeholder in, then go back and add in the detail later.

Noble6
06-27-2011, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by EmmaBemma:
Seeing as many of the pictures released involving Constantinople have "regular" trees, is it at all possible the palm trees in the demo were just "placeholders"? I don't know much about game development but I know it's not uncommon to stick a placeholder in, then go back and add in the detail later.
I think you are right.There was probably lot of placeholders in e3 demo. The mission will be really different in the final game anyway.

Calvarok
06-27-2011, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UBOSOFT-Gamer:
Just to make a statement. I dont know why the devs put in Palmtrees, but some people in this discussion act like palm trees were the only trees in Constantinople. It is not. See the pics to get the prove.
<snip>
Thanks for those, they put my mind at ease.

It's still a tad brownish, but I guess that's just the norm in games these days. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you look at the real life picture, you'll notice that the reason everything looks brownish is both the lighting, and the season. (fall)
Anyways, even if that's not the case, real life looks exactly the same judging from the picture, so why expect it to be more colorful?

karataht
06-27-2011, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UBOSOFT-Gamer:
Just to make a statement. I dont know why the devs put in Palmtrees, but some people in this discussion act like palm trees were the only trees in Constantinople. It is not. See the pics to get the prove.
<snip>
Thanks for those, they put my mind at ease.

It's still a tad brownish, but I guess that's just the norm in games these days. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you look at the real life picture, you'll notice that the reason everything looks brownish is both the lighting, and the season. (fall)
Anyways, even if that's not the case, real life looks exactly the same judging from the picture, so why expect it to be more colorful? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You didnt read previous post. did you?

If you look at to previous posts (at least my posts) you ll notice that I ve written my satisfaction about that picture.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110527211561/assassinscreed/images/3/39/Imperial_district_Hagia_Sophia.png


The main problem is the atmosphere of E3 gameplay demo. I ve written for thousends times.

utku89
07-05-2011, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by karataht:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by utku_ozdemir:
Moderators of the best (in my opinion) Turkish game magazine "Oyungezer" did an interview with the art Director of Assassin's Creed Revelations. You can watch it here:

http://www.viddler.com/explore...ezer/videos/606/4.6/ (http://www.viddler.com/explore/oyungezer/videos/606/4.6/)

He says in-game city will be quite identical to the real Istanbul. That video put my mind at ease.

link is broken or video is not available. I tried to watch it from original website of oyungezer but also the video wasnt available there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks like they re-uploaded the video. You can watch it here:
http://oyungezer.com.tr/makale...eniyle-ozel-roportaj (http://oyungezer.com.tr/makaleler/113-dosya-konular/5767-assassins-creed-revelations-sanat-yonetmeniyle-ozel-roportaj)

kriegerdesgottes
07-05-2011, 01:17 PM
That's one of the better interviews I've seen so far.

notafanboy
07-05-2011, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
That's one of the better interviews I've seen so far.

definitely, they didn´t ask all the casual questions like... who´s Ezio?, what is the hookblade ?, what does he eat for breakfast ?

Calvarok
07-05-2011, 05:51 PM
I did read what you said about that, but I was talking to someone who said that the in-game version was even more brownish than the real life version, referring to the picture you quoted.

bajingantengik
09-30-2011, 07:11 AM
have anyone see the recent ACR videos? particularly the ottoman assassins vid and the gamescom trailer? the street look dusty and bulky, too many palm trees and the sky still have yellow/brown-ish color, even some dome on the buildings look like they're made from sand . it doesnt look accurate and fells like middle east rather than mediterranean climate. why didnt they change it?? btw sorry for the bad english

LightRey
09-30-2011, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by notafanboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
That's one of the better interviews I've seen so far.

definitely, they didn´t ask all the casual questions like... who´s Ezio?, what is the hookblade ?, what does he eat for breakfast ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The answer to all those three questions is awesome.

CRUDFACE
09-30-2011, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by notafanboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
That's one of the better interviews I've seen so far.

definitely, they didn´t ask all the casual questions like... who´s Ezio?, what is the hookblade ?, what does he eat for breakfast ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The answer to all those three questions is awesome. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With a side of epic and the after taste of greatness.

LightRey
09-30-2011, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by notafanboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
That's one of the better interviews I've seen so far.

definitely, they didn´t ask all the casual questions like... who´s Ezio?, what is the hookblade ?, what does he eat for breakfast ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The answer to all those three questions is awesome. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With a side of epic and the after taste of greatness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't forget the awesomesauce.

naran6142
09-30-2011, 01:45 PM
that video answered a lot of recent questions that have been on the forum

like ezio's rank

and that video was better then a lot of the other ones

CRUDFACE
09-30-2011, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by notafanboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
That's one of the better interviews I've seen so far.

definitely, they didn´t ask all the casual questions like... who´s Ezio?, what is the hookblade ?, what does he eat for breakfast ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The answer to all those three questions is awesome. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With a side of epic and the after taste of greatness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't forget the awesomesauce. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this has been a special of cooking...the Ezio way. And no, the awesomesauce must be made

Dieinthedark
09-30-2011, 02:54 PM
Cesare Borgia - Is he dead? = FAIL! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif I don't know how the guy didn't know if he was dead. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif That made me laugh though. On topic- good interview.

CRUDFACE
09-30-2011, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Dieinthedark:
Cesare Borgia - Is he dead? = FAIL! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif I don't know how the guy didn't know if he was dead. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif That made me laugh though. On topic- good interview.

There might have been a fresh pile of hay down there where he fell.

melon_yost
12-20-2011, 07:46 AM
I found this topic from a Google search and I know it's slightly outdated, but I found it interesting and thought I'd ad my word to it. First, I love the franchise and I really enjoyed this one too. I thought the city of Constantinople was fantastic also, but I had just one problem with it:

The palm trees...

Now, modern day Istanbul has some palm trees, but only in small numbers and nowhere near the number you see in the game. The only palm trees resembling the ones in the game that are grown in Istanbul are Phoenix Canariensis (Canary Island Date Palm), native to the Canary Islands. They are very widely cultivated plants in the Mediterranean region, but at the time of this game, the Canary Islands had only just been conquered by the Spanish and I highly doubt that foreign cultivation had began, especially in Constantinople, and if it had, none of them would have reached maturity by the time that the game is set. The only similar palm that was cultivated at that time was Phoenix dactylifera (the original date palm), but there are none of them planted in Istanbul today in Istanbul as the climate isn't dry enough and probably too humid to accommodate them. If they could grow there, they certainly wouldn't produce fruit so mass planting of date palms would in no way be viable.

Lastly, Istanbul even today has occasional winter freezes. With all the theories of climate change in the last few hundred years, if anything Istanbul probably had colder winters then than it has now, making the cultivation of palm trees even less likely.

To sum it up, I love the series and thought this particular game was fantastic also, but is just very slightly let down by the unrealistic inclusion of lots of palm trees in Constantinople.

brick177
12-20-2011, 06:55 PM
Although I doubt the game designers took this into account, there was a "Medieval Warm Period" that lasted a few hundred years from 950 AD to 1250 AD followed by a "Little Ice Age" starting in 1550 AD. So it is always possible that Palm trees began growing during the warm period and were on their way out during the course of the game?

D.I.D.
12-20-2011, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by melon_yost:
.

My dad has a tiny garden out the back of his house on the English coast. He has an olive tree, a banana tree, and a palm tree. The palm and the banana grow ridiculously quickly, ridiculously tall and they survive every snowy winter. I'm not saying Ubisoft got it right - maybe they didn't have palms in those days in Turkey - but the trees are a lot more prolific and hardy than you seem to think!

ProdiGurl
12-21-2011, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
The blind, absolute loyalty to Ubisoft on these boards keeps surprising me.

How can anyone defend such an obvious screw up?

Sure, it's not a gamebreaker, but that doesn't make it correct.

I just have one comment -
I think some loyal fans have gotten completely anal in the realism & perfection they demand from a Video Game