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Estocade85
10-07-2005, 02:07 PM
Ok here's the situation:

I'm flying the P-38 with a bomber loadout. I'm at 3000 m and diving for enemy ground targets. I make a couple of high E passes, couple targets destroyed.

THEN, when I'm about to use my E to gain some altitude, there's some Yak-3 or La-7 at 30 m of my six coming to get me. At this point, I'm on the deck doing some 550 kph, no bombs, with this guy slowly closing on me.

*** WHAT SHOULD I DO? ***

I tried turning, he turns tighter than me and wacks me.
I tried pulling up, he has perfect shot and wacks me.
I tried flying level and runnning away, he has time to aim then wacks me.
I tried evasive manouvers, he catches up on me then wacks me.

I need a tip http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Serious replies plz.

gx-warspite
10-07-2005, 02:25 PM
You're pooched http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Not much you can do against a Lala when you're on deck, never mind when he has E on top of that.

SithSpeeder
10-07-2005, 02:29 PM
Seriously, get fighter cover/multiple wingmen. You are toast once they are on your six.

Is this an offline or online scenario?

8000m is your maximum True Air Speed altitude--pretty much the only time you can outrun a Yak-3 in a level race. The La-7 however is faster at all altitudes. (according to IL2 Compare)

* _54th_Speeder *

Estocade85
10-07-2005, 02:34 PM
Online http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Yup...doomed,that's what I thought lol.

F19_Ob
10-07-2005, 02:34 PM
Bail!...So U are surer of survival and may return to fight another day.

If they are within firing range U likely wont be able to do much and it's highly likely u get shot down.
U could try to outrun a yak3 and hope he runs out of ammo, but if it is a yak3P u are gone since it has 3 fastfiring cannons.
The best evasive move u can do is pulling and pushing the stick, in a shallow dive to own lines. Avoid rolling since they all do it better. The wave-like movement can make u a hard target to hit and lets u keep some energy.
If the enemy comes too close, idle throttle and pull hard with combatflaps ,and the speedbrake if u have p38 L. This maneuver may throw the enemy momentarily off aim, then resume to fly fast and wave.
Hopefully a friendly spots u and or U have flown to friendly lines and get some cover of flak.
The reason for going in a shallow dive is to let u keep energy high and at the same time drag the enemy down to lower altitude, wich is unsafe because someone with better energy might intervene. This may also cause a careful enemy to break of the attack and regain his altitude and safety (most are not smart or careful though).
Another thing u can do is to draw attention to u by firing short bursts ahead and hope a friendly sees u.
If it succeeds u have made good use of your ammo.
Avoid to use smoke, or lights since it looks really silly and people tend to get annoyed.

well, what I think. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

SithSpeeder
10-07-2005, 02:36 PM
OK. Online, you need to be on comms (VOICE comms...not the silly chat thing). Coordinate your ground pounding with others in faster and more maneuverable fighters. ASK for cover well before you get there. It makes a HUGE difference.

* _54th_Speeder *

Estocade85
10-07-2005, 02:42 PM
Thanks for the tips guys, I'll keep that in mind! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Maple_Tiger
10-07-2005, 02:57 PM
I beleave, it depends on the version of lightning your flying.

You can have some serious fun with the P-38L lol. Causing someone to follow you into the ground, while you can pull out, can be fun. lol. Have to love them dive brakes.

Usualy, the Yak or La7 will start or fart to compress at about 500km/h. That said, set the guy up lol. Get some speed, make sure your at about 1000m, and split-S. Then it's good buy La7.

Doesn't work all the time, but it will cause the dude not follow or crash into the ground.

If your flying to P-38J, then you is in trouble be sure. Unless you can do a nice barrol role before he lines up a shot lol.

Keep trying man, and bring someone to cover you while you ground pound.

Good luck!

Gibbage1
10-07-2005, 03:04 PM
Wingman and a few calls for help is about your only chance. Or clouds. That helped me a lot.

Faith_Healer
10-07-2005, 03:12 PM
Hi,
I always Fly the P38L Late online . My missions online usually last about half hour to and hour long..My load outs are 2 1000lb bombs and all the rockets I can get.. 50 % fuel sometimes and 25% others..I dont fly in arenas in the 38 unless they are full realism and complex engine management is on..In this arena setup I seem to get the best performance..I dont fly in kph but i fly in KIAS..

Here are a few tips that might help you survive a bit longer in a P38.

1... Speed. ALWAYS keep her at 250 or over kias no exceptions unless U are landing
2.. situational awareness... Make sure no one gets close to you until you are ready..make sure you are at co alt or higher than aircraft around U.hitting cntrl-F2 from time to time to keep track of everyone helps..If someone starts creeping to you and if you followed rule one U can accelerate away easily.
3... Engine management.. try to keep your engines cool. After I get to my alt and speed after taking off Ill throttle back and open the radiators,,fly off away frome everyone for a while and let your engines cool down.. the reason for this is usually everyone is TnB fighting with full wep and full throttle,.and heating their engines up. so If one of theses guys get on your six accelerate as fast as you can go and take them on the tour as I call it..I got lots of fuel, speed and cool engines.. They are gonna burn their engine out long before they catch me.. done it many times.. or just drag them thru friendly flak works too.

4... never try to turn fight in a P38.. Some guys can do it very nicely.. It just doesnt work for me so I dont do it..pick your victim and mak sure he is slow.. dive in and take a shot.. then zoom away. dont pull up at too high of an angle either.. it makes your profile large and too easy of a snapshot for your intended victim.. If you followed rule one repeat rule four.. cause he isnt going to catch you..

when I do bomb runs I usually try to place my plane high enough so when I dive I get enough speed to get away.. I try to make my zoom out towards an open piece of sky and towards my base this way if some one gets on my six I can drag them to some one flying out of my base..

As a last ditch effort if some one does surprise me I drop my bomb load and just try to do a rolling run away.. roll your plane as you are running dont try to turn it. hopefully he will run out of ammo before you get shot up too much especially if you followed rule one..

also in your post you state you make a couple bomb passes before some one gets U.. thats a mistake.. after U dropped once you just attracted a lot of attention !! Just drop once then fly away for a while come back later from a different direction when they have forgotten about you then drop again and take a couple shots at them as U go thru..Also dont land at your base if it is hot pick another one even if it is pretty far away. the time spent is worh it.

There is lots more but this will get U started there might be some who disagree with me but it works well for me ....good luck

fordfan25
10-07-2005, 04:07 PM
jink jink and jink some more just keep twisting and bobing. eather he will run outa ammo or kill you. the thing i always like to do is if he gets in real close cut throttle engage air break and pull all the way back on the stick "you wount flip over. if he pass's you just engage full powerand run. he will more than likely have to turn around to your new direction by then hopefully youll be outa gun range. just do a easy climb. the higher you go the slower he gets vs the faster you get pluse he will over heat WAY befor you.

iv had La-7s chase me from sea Lv all the way to 25k ft. by the time you get up there hes overheated and a ways back and below me. from there his a$$ is normaly mine. i just do a slow cyrcle over him till he's all out of E the dive in on him. La's are great sprinters but thay just dont have the lungs for the long haul like the p38LL has.

also iv found that i can run the p38 late at 103% power all the way up with out over heat. even when going at 110% and get an OH msg just throttle back for about 30sec and it cools off enough to run at 110% awhile longer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif the 38 is a thinking mans fighter in alot of ways.

BSS_CUDA
10-07-2005, 04:16 PM
climb at a 10 degree climb I'm not sure about the LA-7 but no luft plane will out climb the 38L-Late in a 10 degree climb, but if he's that close your already in trouble. whats your dive speed? 550 kph seems a little slow only 340 mph, come in steeper she'll hold together at 490 mph, 780 kph, just tap your dive brakes to level out and keep her aroung 390-400 mph, most russian planes cant handle that speed, then after dropping your load climb at 10 degree

AFSG_Bulldog
10-07-2005, 04:32 PM
Well if you are flying a P-38, why would a Yak or an LA attack you? They are all Allied planes.

Amnio
10-07-2005, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by AFSG_Bulldog:
Well if you are flying a P-38, why would a Yak or an LA attack you? They are all Allied planes.
It's a what-if scenario when hammering your navlights and screaming "bloody teamkiller" over the radio doesn't help I suppose. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Then again, there are rumors that some players play on servers with some rather unrealistic planesets.

fordfan25
10-07-2005, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
climb at a 10 degree climb I'm not sure about the LA-7 but no luft plane will out climb the 38L-Late in a 10 degree climb, but if he's that close your already in trouble. whats your dive speed? 550 kph seems a little slow only 340 mph, come in steeper she'll hold together at 490 mph, 780 kph, just tap your dive brakes to level out and keep her aroung 390-400 mph, most russian planes cant handle that speed, then after dropping your load climb at 10 degree

super cool sig cuda.

T_O_A_D
10-07-2005, 06:24 PM
Always save the bomb for last. If need be use it on your trailing foe.

Grey_Mouser67
10-07-2005, 06:35 PM
Don't forget to close the radiators when running away...it adds quite a bit of speed. You will overheat, but if you get caught you are dead anyways...

The P-38L is quite fast with closed radiators...Dora's, A-9's and K-4's are faster on the deck but that is about it and I know you will outpace an Anton in a 10 degree climb and I'll bet you'll outpace a Dora in a high speed climb too if you don't start at an E disadvantage...the K is uber so I think you are toast if one gets behind you BUT, I have out turned a K before so scissors and do what you can to close the distance between you without losing too much E and without getting hit, then go into a turn and see what happens...if you have altitude, engage your dive break and turn downwards in a spiral...you'll lose any late 109, Dora or Anton in that manuever if you can get a lead turn...you just got to watch out for that uber snap instataneous turn that Fw's have...very hard to break turn inside one without getting hit.

Ranger_80
10-07-2005, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
climb at a 10 degree climb I'm not sure about the LA-7 but no luft plane will out climb the 38L-Late in a 10 degree climb, but if he's that close your already in trouble. whats your dive speed? 550 kph seems a little slow only 340 mph, come in steeper she'll hold together at 490 mph, 780 kph, just tap your dive brakes to level out and keep her aroung 390-400 mph, most russian planes cant handle that speed, then after dropping your load climb at 10 degree

Just out of curiosity how do you judge your climb angle? Lots of people talk about 20 degree zoom climbs, but how do you tell? I mean most planes tell you how many metres/feet per minute, but angle?

VW-IceFire
10-07-2005, 08:37 PM
Yep...you're pretty much tarred and feathered at this point in time. The perfectionist in me screams out that, had I been in said situation, there should have been something that I could do as a superior pilot to outdo my pursuers. I've been in that situation and I feel your pain.

You've certainly covered the basis, considered your options, and discovered that you were toast no matter what http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Against those sorts of guys...you have two possible options.

1) You have a teammate to back you up. Nothing scatters bits of target fixated La's and Yak's around like a wingman.

2) If you've got the altitude and a P-38L, dive for the ground as fast as you can. Let them follow and at the last second, pop those dive brakes and combat flaps and do a hard 90 degree pullout. Chances are they will be lawn darts and you'll be scraping the treetops.

JG52_Manteo
10-07-2005, 08:40 PM
With an La7 on ur 6 that close and on the deck ,if you still have some pieces left of your plane, you can open dive breaks with Ctrl key and go full flaps and turn with full throttle to give alot of airflow deflection from the elevator while working throttle too as neccessary like hell, and in a powered -turning slip- full rudder in the direction of the turn and staying low, flaps adjusting as needed. Hell with gear down. Don't bleed off too much airspeed and hope for the best that he is a rookie, cause if he isnt your smoked. Maybe you can build up some energy if you get away(flaps up, full throttle, level as possible) so
you can start after him.

JG52_Manteo
10-07-2005, 08:44 PM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/planegeek/flashclatter.jpg

Waldo.Pepper
10-07-2005, 10:33 PM
I make a couple of high E passes


IMHO that's your problem right there.

ONE PASS ONLY!
Then bug out climb do it again.

JtD
10-08-2005, 12:53 AM
I very much agree with pepper, even though I'd say the limit is two - as long as the second one is vectored towards friendly territory.

On a P-38 I usually take bombs only - meaning one pass. I haver never been up against La's and Yak's though. It has been said: they are Allies.

After your pass over the target get back to altitude (3000-4000 is nice), as the VVS planes only pronouced weakness is diving. The P-38 J is about as fast as the Yak, in a shallow dive it's faster. Against a Yak-3 - keep going fast, try to run away.

La-7 are very hard to defeat. If you happen to have one on your six as close as you are saying, try to make them overshoot, a barrel roll might do the trick. It will however only buy you a couple of seconds. If I was in your place, I'd use the time to bail.

Estocade85
10-08-2005, 06:05 AM
Thx guys! Good stuff!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

danjama
10-08-2005, 06:42 AM
Scissors maneuver is very effective if you know how to do it. Always throws an enemy fighter off long enough for you to throttle back and turn onto him, cau he will be flying along at what....500 or 600 tryin to stay on your six. Another situation where u can use yuor divebrake to slow rapidly.

Estocade85
10-08-2005, 10:08 AM
Hey I hit =AFJ= today and practiced the moves you guys suggested and WOW, I made it home 4/5 of the time, leaving smoking craters behind http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I did the following:

-coordinated play with wingman on TS
-altitude @ 20 degree angle
-engine cooling @ altitude
-single bomb run
-closed rad for the getaway
-wave thingy (I crack myself up watching them try to align a shot http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif )
-dive brake & alt
-spiral dive with dive brakes

Each trick worked very well. Most of the time, I have a lot of energy after the pass, so I climb at 20 deg. and I loose most of them. If one's hanging on my 6, I do the wave thingy, which is BTW so freakin funny to watch lmao. THAT works wonders, then if he's too close, dive brakes and alt then quick zoom down a bit. Draging him in a swarm of friendlies works too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

You guys made my day! Thanks!

smart_boy00
10-09-2005, 12:56 AM
All you need to know in a p-38 is that you have very powerfull engines and guns........ grab a wingman and get a lot of alt, then keep them at a disadvantage and take the shot when you want.........
P-38 pilots have a bad habbit of trying to turn and burn with the bad guy. they almost always loose.

You need to disapline yourself to not get yourself in a bad possision. once your in a bad spot its hard to get out. close your radiators, your engines can take some heat before they go, use that. use 100 prop pict on clibms and 95- 90 on dives and level

But always pick your battle, if you are by yourself....(you shouldnt be) and you find yourself getting jumped, wait till hes about 0.40 away and do a negative turn down and right or down and left. negative turns are the hardest to hit with a deflection.

If you need a good wingman to show you some good moves, email me at smart_boy00@hotmail.com , ill make time to go up with you and show you some tips.

JtD
10-09-2005, 01:34 AM
Can't believe it, this forum was actually good for something. Good luck for the future, Estocade.

(Is there anything to bomb on the AFJ's server maps?)

jimDG
10-09-2005, 04:57 AM
war pilots say the p-38 will outmaneuver anything at low level using differential throtle and a flat turn (close one engine completely). Has anyone tried this in the game?

BSS_CUDA
10-09-2005, 06:51 AM
in game the 38 will out turn the 109K with ease, turn with all other variants of the 109 except the G2 as long as you have 25% fuel, it will out turn and out climb all 190's but will not out dive or out roll, it will turn with a KI84 and out run it in a shallow climb, it will out turn a zero for about 45 degress then your toast, but it will out run the zero like nobody's business, same goes for the KI 43 and the KI 61. it is a very good plane as long as you stay high and stay fast, its an ok plane if you get below 250 MPH. above 23000 ft no Axis plane can touch you, even the Dora is toast, its fast but cannot evade because it will stall. most TA pilots will start the ol' Yank & Bank and go into a flat spin. just caress the stick and dont bee too rough with her and you will rule at altitude

general_kalle
10-09-2005, 01:36 PM
made a "speed test" of some planes where i was diving straight down from 10000 Meters hight found out that All jets explode at 1100 Kph
and that lightning goes fastest without being destryed

Xiolablu3
10-09-2005, 03:13 PM
I have been in this scenario many times when offline, even with a wingman he doesnt seem to help me and just flys about .50 behind and sits there while the enemy plane flys next to him hammering away at me!

Do I have to order him to clear my tail??