PDA

View Full Version : Tracer color chart. Where to find?



Choctaw111
03-10-2008, 08:31 AM
There was a chart that I saw a couple years ago that had the tracer colors on it for the different ammunition types and what countries produced them. I did a search for it and could not find it. Does any one know which one I mean and where I can find it?
I imagine this chart was posted quite a while back when there were complaints about the "rainbow" tracers and it was shown that this was historically correct.

Choctaw111
03-10-2008, 08:31 AM
There was a chart that I saw a couple years ago that had the tracer colors on it for the different ammunition types and what countries produced them. I did a search for it and could not find it. Does any one know which one I mean and where I can find it?
I imagine this chart was posted quite a while back when there were complaints about the "rainbow" tracers and it was shown that this was historically correct.

Lurch1962
03-10-2008, 06:50 PM
I'd be curious to see this, too. And I'd also like to know which elements were used to burn blue and white. Red is almost certainly strontium, while yellow could be barium or sodium?

crucislancer
03-10-2008, 07:10 PM
I recall a IL-2 website that had info on the different ammo types and what color the tracers were, along with listings of all the other ordinance in IL-2, a cockpit layout page, and a page that showed all the various engine functions of each plane. I can't recall the site, the bookmark is on my work computer. I tried to do a search, but came up with some 404s.

Choctaw111
03-10-2008, 08:31 PM
Well, after doing a little digging, I did find the thread with the reference to the page and chart I was talking about. Here's the link...but before you click on it, the link is DEAD http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
http://free-st.hinet.hr/dvd/Weapons.html

...but here is the link to one of the threads that talked about it
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/578...=578103561#578103561 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/578103561?r=578103561#578103561)

and another one

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/324...241074533#3241074533 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/3241074533?r=3241074533#3241074533)

I sure wish I could find that chart somewhere. It is a real shame. Someone must have it.

voyager_663rd
03-10-2008, 09:23 PM
Can't seem to find anything in one spot. It's a bit here and a bit there.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">1) Projectile data from "Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War." "Naval Weapons of World War Two" says that the AP round weighed 0.62 lbs. (0.28 kg).

2) Normal allocation was one tracer in every five rounds.

3) Shell Colors
AP - White
Common - Maroon
Incendiary Common - Orange
Tracer - Yellow </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_25mm-60_mg.htm

Then this forum
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=417276&sid...eadfd01bd08e1eec6c25 (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=417276&sid=e48a4942b9aceadfd01bd08e1eec6c25)

I almost come to the conclusion that although it seemed fairly common for white to be used during the day (brighter) and red at night, it was really a mixed bag. It seems painting the shells different colours to help distinguish them (tracer, a.p.) was more prevalent. In fact, some considered the use of tracer down right dangerous ("hey, there's the shooter")

crucislancer
03-10-2008, 10:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Choctaw111:
Well, after doing a little digging, I did find the thread with the reference to the page and chart I was talking about. Here's the link...but before you click on it, the link is DEAD http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
http://free-st.hinet.hr/dvd/Weapons.html

...but here is the link to one of the threads that talked about it
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/578...=578103561#578103561 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/578103561?r=578103561#578103561)

and another one

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/324...241074533#3241074533 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/3241074533?r=3241074533#3241074533)

I sure wish I could find that chart somewhere. It is a real shame. Someone must have it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, that was it. I agree, a real shame. There was some great info on that site. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

EURO_Snoopy
03-10-2008, 10:50 PM
Hop into the time machine (http://web.archive.org/web/20040515010703/http://free-st.hinet.hr/dvd/Weapons.html)

crucislancer
03-10-2008, 11:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EURO_Snoopy:
Hop into the time machine (http://web.archive.org/web/20040515010703/http://free-st.hinet.hr/dvd/Weapons.html) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sweet! Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Choctaw111
03-11-2008, 10:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EURO_Snoopy:
Hop into the time machine (http://web.archive.org/web/20040515010703/http://free-st.hinet.hr/dvd/Weapons.html) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The connection keeps timing out http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

I got it now. I'm all better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SlickStick
03-11-2008, 11:24 AM
Can you post it here for others that are having trouble with that web page, Choctaw? Thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Choctaw111
03-11-2008, 12:09 PM
Anything for you guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
and gals

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Il2GunsInfo/1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Il2GunsInfo/2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Il2GunsInfo/3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Il2GunsInfo/4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Il2GunsInfo/5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Il2GunsInfo/6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Il2GunsInfo/7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Il2GunsInfo/8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Il2GunsInfo/9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Il2GunsInfo/10.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Il2GunsInfo/11.jpg

I am fairly certain I got it all.

SlickStick
03-11-2008, 12:16 PM
Awesome, thanks.

Daiichidoku
03-11-2008, 12:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EURO_Snoopy:
Hop into the time machine (http://web.archive.org/web/20040515010703/http://free-st.hinet.hr/dvd/Weapons.html) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

nice

when your done with, can i use that time machine?

i have a buncha stuff on P 47s to show Oleg before il2 1.0 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

JG53Frankyboy
03-11-2008, 12:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Choctaw111:
Anything for you guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

................

I am fairly certain I got it all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the italian SAFATs are both white.
the MG15 (reargunner gun of Ju87B for example)is yellow.

"strangly" the japanese Typ89 7,7mm gun in the Ki-27 has red tracers, in the Ki-43/Ki61 yellow ones....

Choctaw111
03-11-2008, 12:41 PM
Just so you know, as nice as this list is, it is not the one I was looking for. The one I was looking for was an actual chart that showed the caliber, and what color the tracer burned. It included more than just the aerial guns, it also had the AA guns as well, like the 20mm Solothurn (Flak) and several others.

Diphon
03-11-2008, 08:35 PM
see... that's what I need. I already know the colors for the aircraft involved. the ships are more of a problem.

p-39driver
03-12-2008, 01:38 AM
Those are exactly the charts
I was refering to in the
topic I posted yesterday.

A few weeks ago the site was still
there.But it appeared that part
of it had been "taken over" by a
music downoad site,in particular
the cockpit reference section.

To bad it's gone,it was most useful.

Choctaw111
03-12-2008, 07:19 AM
There was a reference made to the Japanese 25mm AA guns. There was even some photos I was looking at yesterday. Now I have to find it again.

Choctaw111
03-12-2008, 07:54 AM
I found the page with the 25mm type 96. It doesn't say what color the tracer burned. It only gives the color code on the tracer shell. I have read that some of the 25mm Japanese AA fire was pink in color. I do not know about the 13mm tracers though. Anyway, here are the two pages I found for the 25mm and the 13mm.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_25mm-60_mg.htm
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_13mm-76_mg.htm

This is the main page I found them on. All in all a good website.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_Main.htm

It almost comes down to interviewing some Japanese Naval gunners from WW2 and asking them...or allied aviators who were shot at.

Lurch1962
03-12-2008, 07:48 PM
Sorry if this is overkill, but to augment Chocktaw's screen grabs of that weapons list, I offer it in text format so you can grab and paste it into a word processor...


SU
DA - Degtyareva Aviatsionnyj - Aviation MG by Degtyareva
- ammunition 7,62 x 54R (calibre*lenght of the cartridge case, R for rimmed case)
- 780 RPM
- muzzle velocity 818 m/s
- projectile weight 9,6 gm
- gun weight 8kg
- tracer color green

ShKAS - Shpital'nyj-Komaritskij Aviatsionnyj Skorostel'nyj -
rapid fire MG designed by Komaritskij
- 7,62 x 54R
- 1800 RPM
- 870 m/s
- 9,6 gm
- 7,1 kg
- green
- ammo belt composition APIT - API - T - API

UB - Universal'nyj Berezina - multi purpose MG designed by Berezin
- UBS - synchronized, UBK - fixed for wings, UBT - flexible
- 12,7 x 108
- 900-1050 RPM (in synchronized instalation 800 RPM)
- 860 m/s
- 52 gm - API
- 25 kg
- white
- APIT - AP - HEI

B-20 - Berezina - designer name
- B-20S - synchronized
- 20 x 99R
- 800 RPM
- 860 m/s
- 96 gm - HE
- 25 kg
- red
- APIT - HE

ShVAK - Shpital'nyj-Vladimirov Aviatsionnaya Krupnokalibernaya -
large caliber aircraft gun designed by Shpitalnyj and Vladimirov
- 20 x 99R
- 800 RPM
- 860 m/s
- 96 gm - HE
- 42 kg
- red
- APIT - HE

VYa - Volkov and Yartsev - names of designers
- 23 x 152R
- 550 RPM
- 880 m/s
- 200 gm - HE
- 68 kg
- red
- HEIT - API - API

NS-37 - Nudel'man and Suranov - names of designers
- 37 x 195
- 250 RPM
- 900 m/s
- 735 gm - HEI
- 170 kg
- red
- HEIT - APT
- APT - HEIT - HEIT (for Yak-9UT)

NS-45 - Nudel'man and Suranov - names of designers
- 45 x 185
- 250 RPM
- 850 m/s
- 1065 gm - HE
- 170 kg
- yellow
- HEIT - APT


FAB (Fugasnaya Aviatsionnaya Bomba) - general purpose bombs
- FAB-50
- FAB-100
- FAB-250
- FAB-500
- FAB-1000


VAP (Vylivnoy Aviatsionny Pribor) - napalm canister
- VAP-250


AJ-2 - incendiary bombs


AO-10 (Aviatsionnaya Oskolochnyang) - fragmentation bombs


PTAB-2.5 (ProtivoTankovaya Aviatsionnaya Bomba) - anti-armor bombs


RS-82, RS-132 (Reaktivny Snaryad) - general purpose rockets
BRS-82, BRS-132 (Broneboyniy Reaktivny Snaryad) - anti armor rockets
M-13 - incendiary rockets



Germany

MG15 - Maschinengewehr - machine gun
- 7,92 x 57
- 1000 RPM
- 765 m/s
- 11,5 gm
- 7,1 kg
- white
- AP - AP - APT


MG17
- 7,92 x 57
- 1200 RPM
- 765 m/s
- 11,5 gm
- 12,6 kg
- red
- AP - AP - APT


MG81Z - Zwilling - twins - two MG81 together
- 7,92 x 57
- 3200 RPM
- 715 m/s
- 11,5 gm
- 12,9 kg
- white
- AP - APT

MG 131
- 13 x 64B
- 900 RPM
- 750 m/s
- 38,5 gm - AP
- 17 kg
- blue
- HET - AP - HE - AP

MG 151
- 15 x 96
- 700 RPM
- 960 m/s
- 57 gm - HE
- 42 kg
- red
- HET - AP - HE - AP

MG-FF/M
- 20 x 80RB
- 530 RPM
- 700 m/s
- 62 gm - HE
- 26 kg
- yellow
- APIT - HE - HE - MG

MG 151/20
- MG151/20E - version with electric primer
- 20 x 82
- 700 RPM
- 800 m/s
- 92 gm - HE
- 42 kg
- blue
- APIT - HE - HE - MG - MG

MK 101 - Maschinenkanone - automatic cannon
- 30 x 184B
- 230 RPM
- 920 m/s
- 330 gm - HE
- 180 kg
- yellow

MK 103
- 30 x 184B
- 360-420 RPM
- 920 m/s
- 330 gm - HE
- 141 kg
- yellow
- APT - MG - MG - HE

MK 108
- 30 x 90RB
- 600 RPM
- 505 m/s
- 330 gm - HE
- 60 kg
- yellow
- HEIT - MG

BK 3.7 - Bordkanone - aviation gun
- 37 x 263B
- 160 RPM
- 1170 m/s
- 405 gm - APCR
- 295 kg
- red
- APCRT (for Ju-87 G1)
- HET (for Bf110 BK 3.7 gunpod)


MK214A
- 50 x 419R
- 160 RPM
- 920 m/s
- 1520 gm - HE
- 490 kg
- yellow
- APT - HET


BK 7.5
- 75 x 714R
- 30 RPM
- 790 m/s
- 6800 gm - APCR
- 705 kg
- red

SC (Sprengbombe Cylindrisch) - general purpose bombs
- SC 50
- SC 70
- SC 250
- SC 500
- SC 1000 "Hermann"
- SC 1800 "Satan"
- SC 2000

SD (Splitterbombe Dickwand) - fragmentation bomb
- SD 500

PC (Panzerbombe Cylindrisch) - armor piercing bomb
- PC 1600

AB (Abwurf Behalter) - cluster bombs
- AB 250
- AB 500
- AB 1000


Wf.Gr.21 (WerferGranate) - anti-aircraft rocket
R4M "Orkan" (Rakete 4 kg Minenkopf) - anti-aircraft rocket





Japan

Type 97
- 7,7 x 58SR
- 900 RPM
- 762 m/s
- 11,3 gm
- 12,7 kg
- yellow


Ho 103
- 12,7 x 81SR
- 800 RPM
- 760 m/s
- 35,4 gm - AP
- 23 kg
- yellow



Ho 5
- 20 x 94
- 750 RPM
- 730 m/s
- 79 gm - HE
- 37 kg
- yellow


Type 99
- 20 x 101RB
- 500 RPM
- 750 m/s
- 127 gm - HE
- 28 kg
- yellow

Ho 155
- 30 x 114
- 400 RPM
- 700 m/s
- 235 gm - HE
- 50 kg
- yellow

250 kg bomb - general purpose





USA

Browning M2 .30
- 7,62 x 63
- 1200 RPM
- 845 m/s
- 10,9 gm
- 10 kg
- red
- APIT - AP - AP - APIT - API - API

Browning M2 .50
- 12,7 x 99
- 600-850 RPM
- 870 m/s
- 46 gm - AP
- 29 kg
- red
- APIT - AP - HE - AP

AN/M2
- 20 x 110
- 600 PRM
- 880 m/s
- 130 gm - HE
- 50 kg
- yellow
- HET - AP


M4
- 37 x 145R
- 140-150 RPM
- 610 m/s
- 608 gm - HE
- 96 kg
- red
- HET - HET

M10
- 37 x 145R
- 150-170 RPM
- 610 m/s
- 608 gm - HE
- 109 kg
- red
- HET - HET

M4
- 75 x 350R
- manual loading
- 600 m/s
- 6670 gm - HE
- 405 kg
- red
- HET - HET

M5
- 75 x 350R
- manual loading
- 600 m/s
- 6670 gm - HE
- 184 kg
- red
- HET - HET

- 250 lb bomb - general purpose
- 500 lb bomb - general purpose
- 1000 lb bomb - general purpose

HVAR - High Velocity Aircraft Rocket - general purpose rocket
4,5' rockets - general purpose rocket



UK

Browning .303
- 7,7 x 56R
- 1150 RPM
- 762 m/s
- 11,3 gm
- 10 kg
- red
- APIT - AP - AP - APIT - API - API

Hispano MkI/II
- 20 x 110
- 600 PRM
- 880 m/s
- 130 gm - HE
- 50 kg
- yellow
- HET - AP

- 250 lb bomb - general purpose
- 500 lb bomb - general purpose



Poland

PWU wz.33
- 7,92 x 57
- 1000 RPM
- 765 m/s
- 11,5 gm
- 11,5 kg
- red

PuW 12.5 - general purpose bombs



Italy

BREDA SAFAT 7.7
- 7,7 x 56R
- 800 - 900 RPM
- 762 m/s
- 11,3 gm
- 12,5 kg
- red

BREDA SAFAT 12.7
- 12,7 x 81SR
- 700 RPM
- 760 m/s
- 35,4 gm - AP
- 29 kg
- red

- 50 kg bomb - general purpose
- 100 kg bomb - general purpose



France

MAC-1934
- 7,5 x 54
- 1200 - 1500 RPM
- 830 m/s
- 9,5 gm
- 8,5 kg
- yellow

HS.404
- 20 x 110
- 700 RPM
- 880 m/s
- 130 gm - HE
- 60 kg
- yellow
- HET - AP



Hungary

40mm 36M
- 40 x 311R
- 150 RPM
- 850 m/s
- 955 gm- HE
- 438 kg
- red




T - Tracer bullet
AP - Armor-Piercing bullet
APT - Armor-Piercing with Tracer
API - Armor-Piercing Incendary
APIT - Armor-Piercing Incendary Tracer
APCRT - Armor-Piercing Compsoite Rigid Tracer (hard core shell)
HE - High-Explosive shell
HEI - High-Explosive Incendary shell
HET - High-Explosive with Tracer
HEIT - High-Explosive Incendary Tracer
MG - M-Geschoss, thin-shell High Explosive shell


engine mounting - firing thru propeler axis
RPM - rounds per minute
rpg - rounds per gun

major_setback
03-12-2008, 08:57 PM
Thanks ALL.

Choctaw111
03-12-2008, 11:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lurch1962:
Sorry if this is overkill, but to augment Chocktaw's screen grabs of that weapons list, I offer it in text format so you can grab and paste it into a word processor...

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No problem. Thanks.