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x__CRASH__x
08-11-2005, 09:06 PM
I'm working on rebuilding Ghost Skies into a historic ladder, and we are building a large number of maps that emulate actual battles, raids, and skirmishes that happened during WWII. That got me thinking... What were the "Forgotten Battles"? Is there some list of obscure airborne fights out there somewhere? Or was it just some slick marketing name?

x__CRASH__x
08-11-2005, 09:06 PM
I'm working on rebuilding Ghost Skies into a historic ladder, and we are building a large number of maps that emulate actual battles, raids, and skirmishes that happened during WWII. That got me thinking... What were the "Forgotten Battles"? Is there some list of obscure airborne fights out there somewhere? Or was it just some slick marketing name?

Daiichidoku
08-11-2005, 09:09 PM
well, crash, they were.....ummm way back in 194....uhhhh...

i forgot

Daiichidoku
08-11-2005, 09:19 PM
actually, the REAL fogotten battles arent even in this game, ironically

no

mongolia/manchukuo
china
indochina
java/DEI
burma/imphal
ceylon(sri lanka)
persia and environs
madagascar
yugoslavia/greece
norway
alaska

im sure theres others that ive...forgotten

LEXX_Luthor
08-11-2005, 09:23 PM
Spain

Pirschjaeger
08-11-2005, 09:27 PM
Hmmm, can't seem to remember. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

But seriously, try asking Luftwaffe_109. I think this is part of his passion. Not sure, but it seems this way to me.

Fritz

Daiichidoku
08-11-2005, 09:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Spain </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, of course..so silly of me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Pirschjaeger
08-11-2005, 09:36 PM
Did I hear correctly that Spain will be an addon sometime for BoB?

Fritz

LEXX_Luthor
08-11-2005, 09:50 PM
Oleg posted several months ago that he is attracted to Spanish Civil War. We have to convince him to act on that attraction.

3.JG51_BigBear
08-11-2005, 09:51 PM
The transfer of the Scharnhorst, Prinz Eugen, and Gneisenau and their support/escort ships from Brest to port in Germany by way of the English Channel is one I've always thought would make an awesome online scenario but we lack a Swordfish. Still would be cool. The largest fleet since the Spanish Armada to sail through the Channel under cover of continuous patrols by some of Germany's best fighter pilots in a daylight operation under the tactical command of Colonel Adolf Galland. None of the ships took any hits and the exercise was deemed to be a complete success by the Germans until they realized that they had bottled up their best fighting ships all on their own.

Pirschjaeger
08-11-2005, 10:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Oleg posted several months ago that he is attracted to Spanish Civil War. We have to convince him to act on that attraction. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What would the planelist look like? I know we'd need new He111 with the other engines IIRC and some earlier 109 models. What else? What was the enemy flying?(Leaving myself open to smart remarks) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

x__CRASH__x
08-11-2005, 10:31 PM
If you guys have some ideas for match-ups that involve fighters we currently have in the game, I would love to hear them. WHat I need to build a map out of them is:

What the battle was...
When the battle took place...
fighters that were involved...
Where they fought...

Ghost Skies will thank you! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Luftwaffe_109
08-11-2005, 11:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> If you guys have some ideas for match-ups that involve fighters we currently have in the game, I would love to hear them. WHat I need to build a map out of them is:

What the battle was...
When the battle took place...
fighters that were involved...
Where they fought...

Ghost Skies will thank you! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is actually quite a huge list of forgotten WWII air operations, though I€m not really sure what you are after. It seems what you are looking for is individual engagements though. Personally, I think you are pretty safe choosing any battle on the Eastern Front, those are fairly forgotten.

Then again, just how €œforgotten€ do you really want them? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The Axis aerial campaign flown in Iraq in support of the Golden Square€s (a conspiracy of four Iraqi colonels headed by the pan-Arabist Rashid Ali al-Gaylani) coup which ousted Regent Adb al-Ilah who had rulled on behalf of King Feisal II (who was only a child at the time of the outbreak of war in Europe), is perhaps one of the most obscure of the episodes of WWII.

At the beginning of April the pro-axis Golden Square took control of Iraq and installed a military junta. Iraqi troops besieged the RAF base of Habbaniya in the morning of April 30, 1941, beginning the Iraqi war against Britain. There was no formal declaration of war. By May 1941, the British had reached Baghdad and the Golden Square fled Iraq. The Iraq government signed an armistice with Britain on May 31, 1941 and Regent Adb al-Ilah returned from exile on June 1, 1941.
Italy sent to Iraq the Squadrigla Speciale Irak (under the command of Captain Francesco Sforza).

It comprised 12 FIAT CR.42 Falcos, 1 SIAI-Marchetti S.79 and 2 SIAI-Marchetti S.81.

All Italian aircraft which flew in this campaign were painted with Iraqi markings and their Italian aircrews were technically members of the Iraqi Air Force.

The Squadrigla Speciale Irak reached Aleppo airbase in Syria on the 27th of May, 1941, and flew on to Mosul in Iraq on the 28th.

After Iraq had surrendered to the British the Squadrigla Speciale Irak returned to Syria by the 31st of that month.

Likewise, the German commitment to the Golden Square's war against Britain was small. Named the Flieger Fuhrer Irak, (under the command of Col. W. Junck) it reached Baghdad and Kirkuk in Iraq by the 10th of May, 1941.

It comprised 14 Messerschmitt Bf 110s, 7 Heinkel He 111s, 3 Junkers Ju 88s and several Junkers Ju 52s.

The RAF Force that was present at Habbaniya airbase (which was seiged on the day of the outbreak of hostilities), the Number 4 Service Flying Training School, comprised 32 Hawker Audax aircraft, 29 Airspeed Oxfords, 9 Gladiators, 8 Gordon aircraft, 3 Valentia transports, a Blenheim I and several Hart trainers.


Best Regards

darkhorizon11
08-12-2005, 12:20 AM
I think its in reference to the rest of the world. To us most of these battles aren't forgotten because we've chosen to remember and re-enact them in this game.

Like how many of my fellow Americans can name 5 battles on the Eastern front, or better yet battles that didn't involve the United States.

Even the large theaters, like the Northern part of the Eastern front in Finland, Leningrad, and Murmansk, or southeast in Iraq. Or the entire Sino-Japan and Russo-Japan conflicts, on top of that the engagements in the South Pacific between the Japs vs. Britain and the Dutch.

All huugeeee conflicts that are mostly unknown to those who don't live there or didn't fight in them. Mostly because Hollywood hasn't made a movie about it for us.

Tater-SW-
08-12-2005, 12:40 AM
Pretty much the whole CBI.

Commonwealth forces in the SWPA, and the Dutch there as well.

tater

LeadSpitter_
08-12-2005, 01:58 AM
Dont forget the aluetians

JG53Frankyboy
08-12-2005, 02:58 AM
possible Battles:

.) Italia vs Greece (with RAF support) in Albania oktober40 till march 41

map , the netmountains (but thats small http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ) ore the coast line with its hills of the Kuban map.
planes:
blue Cr.42 , G.50
red J8A, Hurricane Mk.I , P.11c

.)Manchuria august 1945
Soviets vs Japanese

map, well......, one of the online maps

VVS: P-63 , Yak9M/U , IL2 , A-20
IJ: Ki-84-Ia , A6M5b/c

Ankanor
08-12-2005, 03:00 AM
I have yet to see a Dieppe battle or a short campaign. the northern convoy attacks with the FW200, Stukas, Ju88 and Torpedo carrying He111, the british having seafire, hurrycat and wildcats.

Luftwaffe_109
08-12-2005, 05:42 AM
I think some aerial battles during the Lapland War (fought between Finland and Germany between September 1944 and April 1945) or for the fighting that occured in Rumania after the launch of the Soviet Jassy-Kishinev Operation (which, coupled with Rumania€s declaration of war on the Third Reich, resulted in the near total destruction of the German Heeresgruppe South Ukraine under Friessner) might also be interesting scenarios.

Launched at 6 AM on August 20 1944, the Soviet Jassy-Kishinev Offensive was conducted by the Soviet 2nd Ukrainian Front (under Malinovskii) and 3rd Ukrainian Front (under Tolbukhin) and launched against Heeresgruppe South Ukraine.

Malinovskii€s 2nd Ukrainian Front had over 11,000 guns and mortars, 1,283 tanks and self-propelled guns and almost 900 aircraft.

Tolbukhin€s 3rd Ukrainian Front had 8,000 guns, about 600 tanks and 1,000 aircraft.

Colonel General Freissner€s numerically outnumbered Heeresgruppe South Ukraine had only about 600,000 men, 400 armoured vehicles and 800 aircraft.

The goal was for the 2nd Ukrainian front to strike through a narrow ten-mile sector between Targul Famos and Jassy. This point was the place where the German 8th Army and the Rumanian 4th Army met along the front. Both the 2nd and 3rd Ukrainian Fronts would then jointly drive towards Husi, trapping the German 6th Army in the Kishinev pocket. Russian forces would then push into central Rumania.

From the very beginning, Rumanian resistance crumbled so that, by the 23 August, when Rumania abandoned the axis and defected to the Soviet Union, the fate of the Army Group was sealed. The result was a complete catastrophe for Germany.

In my opinion this would make a very interesting aerial campaign, too bad there is no Rumanian map in FB but I'm sure you could improvise.

Grue_
08-12-2005, 06:23 AM
Shorter list is the Remembered Battles http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

lbhskier37
08-12-2005, 09:25 AM
The most forgotten battle is that where LW units composed of TA-152s, 109 K4s, 109 G6/***, FW 190 D9s, and FW 190 A9s duked it out at low level in northern France against american and british units composed of Spit mkVIIIs, mkIVs, P51Ds and late MKIII, P38Ls, P63s, and P47Ds. IHMO this is the most underrepresented and forgotten battle of WWII and really needs more attention from this sim, especially in online dogfight servers. Historians are torn about this battle, some believe that if the allied pilots uber dogfighting skills wouldn't have allowed them to prevail, the germans would have been able to deploy its jet fighters and hold northern france. Other historians disagree, saying this battle wasn't so important because if the germans would have tried to deploy their jets fighters and bombers in numbers, the allies would have just fought in a different area where the jets were banned http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

JG53Frankyboy
08-12-2005, 09:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luftwaffe_109:
I think some aerial battles during the Lapland War (fought between Finland and Germany between September 1944 and April 1945) or for the fighting that occured in Rumania after the launch of the Soviet Jassy-Kishinev Operation (which, coupled with Rumania€s declaration of war on the Third Reich, resulted in the near total destruction of the German Heeresgruppe South Ukraine under Friessner) might also be interesting scenarios.

Launched at 6 AM on August 20 1944, the Soviet Jassy-Kishinev Offensive was conducted by the Soviet 2nd Ukrainian Front (under Malinovskii) and 3rd Ukrainian Front (under Tolbukhin) and launched against Heeresgruppe South Ukraine.

Malinovskii€s 2nd Ukrainian Front had over 11,000 guns and mortars, 1,283 tanks and self-propelled guns and almost 900 aircraft.

Tolbukhin€s 3rd Ukrainian Front had 8,000 guns, about 600 tanks and 1,000 aircraft.

Colonel General Freissner€s numerically outnumbered Heeresgruppe South Ukraine had only about 600,000 men, 400 armoured vehicles and 800 aircraft.

The goal was for the 2nd Ukrainian front to strike through a narrow ten-mile sector between Targul Famos and Jassy. This point was the place where the German 8th Army and the Rumanian 4th Army met along the front. Both the 2nd and 3rd Ukrainian Fronts would then jointly drive towards Husi, trapping the German 6th Army in the Kishinev pocket. Russian forces would then push into central Rumania.

From the very beginning, Rumanian resistance crumbled so that, by the 23 August, when Rumania abandoned the axis and defected to the Soviet Union, the fate of the Army Group was sealed. The result was a complete catastrophe for Germany.

In my opinion this would make a very interesting aerial campaign, too bad there is no Rumanian map in FB but I'm sure you could improvise. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

in VOW2 we will have some missions where the Rumanians will fith thier former allies Germany and Hungary .
Rumanian airforce with Bf109G , Ju87D-5, He111 and Ju88 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
vs
Hungary and Luftwaffe with Fw190A/F , Bf109G ...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

we use french marking for the rumanian airforce - its red-white-blue instead of red-yellow-blue.

in VOW1 these misisons were fun a also the red pilots liked them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - as soon as they learned to handle the MW50 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Luftwaffe_109
08-12-2005, 06:18 PM
Hello JG53Frankyboy,

That sounds excellent, but why no VVS? I'd imagine it would be quite a bit difficult not to spot Soviet fighters in air-battles over Rumania / the Carpathians, etc, at that time during the war.

Best Regards

x__CRASH__x
08-12-2005, 06:53 PM
LW-109, sounds like you have a vast array of knowledge at your disposal. I would love to tap into your ideas, so let me give you some background on what I'm looking for, and you can tailor your answers accordingly...

Ghost Skies is a team vs team DF competition. We are directing the competition towards a more historic viewpoint, while still retaining the competitive nature of the game. So what I am trying to gather is information about battles / raids / skirmishes where prop fighters fought other prop fighters.

In order for it to be a popular choice, the fighters would have to be more or less balanced in their capabilities. Meaning, if in 1945 the LW attacked the country of Kirpoopastan with Bf-109K4's and FW-190D9's, while Kirpoopastand flew Italian G.50's... thats not a battle that people will want to tackle because it is lopsided. We're looking for challenging and balanced.

Just a reminder, I'd like to know:

What the battle was...
When the battle took place...
Fighters (Not bombers) that were involved...
Where they fought...

And, if possible, what FBD map you think would best represent the scenario.

Luftwaffe_109
08-12-2005, 10:13 PM
Hi x__CRASH__x. Thanks for the kind words but just like everyone else I'm still learning. How about this one:

The Kassel aerial engagement (in Germany) which occurred on 27 September 1944. US 445th Bomber Group made a navigational error and turned at the wrong location. It was assaulted by all 3 Sturmgruppen, (JG 3, JG4 and JG300, inlcuding their 109 escorts from I./JG300).

These groups flew the Fw-190 A8 'Sturmbock'. This SturmFw version of the Fw 190 was specially modified bomber destroyer designed for attacking American heavy bomber formations from extremely close ranges and from behind. It was fitted with additional armour plating around the cockpit and the ammunition boxes, and with extra panels of laminated glass (called Panzerscheiben) on the sides of the cockpit canopy . It was armed with Mk 108s.

The B-24s of 445th Bomber Group which were attacked lost 30 of its 35 aircraft in a matter of minutes. JG 3 attacked first then JG 300 along with JG 4. JG 3 shot down 18 B-24's without a single loss and the other 2 units (as well as I./JG 300, which was equipped with the Bf 109G-6 escort for the SturmFWs) accounted for the remainder.

Finally, the US 361st Fighter Group (previously equipped with P-47s but now with P-51s, I believe) arrived and was able to down some 18 German fighters.


If you are looking for air-to-air battles, the one that developed after the heavily armed SturmFWs had already attacked the bombers and were engaged (along with their 109 escorts) with the American P-51 fighters might be a good one. The biggest problem is probably with the SturmFWs, but I'm sure something could be improvised.

WarWolfe_1
08-12-2005, 10:24 PM
I think that you should look to the PTO, as now just about most any air battle there is being forgotten. It seems that more and more this theater is being forgotten, passed over for the ETO. More models are manufactured and built for ETO. Go look at any model related web site and count 109's to Corsairs, ETO Mustangs to Zekes. You will notice a trend that it is growing Fast.
I have seen more books for the ETO as well. Same thing with the Med too.

x__CRASH__x
08-12-2005, 10:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WarWolfe_1:
I think that you should look to the PTO, as now just about most any air battle there is being forgotten. It seems that more and more this theater is being forgotten, passed over for the ETO. More models are manufactured and built for ETO. Go look at any model related web site and count 109's to Corsairs, ETO Mustangs to Zekes. You will notice a trend that it is growing Fast.
I have seen more books for the ETO as well. Same thing with the Med too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
We haven't forgotten it, and are actively seeking battles from around the world in every theater, whether represented by an actual map or not. You can always fudge the map, and "pretend" it's someplace else! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 01:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luftwaffe_109:
There is actually quite a huge list of forgotten WWII air operations </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Any way I could get that list from you, with flyable prop fighters included?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luftwaffe_109:
I think some aerial battles during the Lapland War (fought between Finland and Germany between September 1944 and April 1945) or for the fighting that occured in Rumania after the launch of the Soviet Jassy-Kishinev Operation (which, coupled with Rumania€s declaration of war on the Third Reich, resulted in the near total destruction of the German Heeresgruppe South Ukraine under Friessner) might also be interesting scenarios. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would love to know the specifcs of what prop fighter aircraft were included in these two scenarios. Also, what map you think would best represent the battle area?

~S~

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 01:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luftwaffe_109:
Hi x__CRASH__x. Thanks for the kind words but just like everyone else I'm still learning. How about this one:

The Kassel aerial engagement (in Germany) which occurred on 27 September 1944. US 445th Bomber Group made a navigational error and turned at the wrong location. It was assaulted by all 3 Sturmgruppen, (JG 3, JG4 and JG300, inlcuding their 109 escorts from I./JG300).

These groups flew the Fw-190 A8 'Sturmbock'. This SturmFw version of the Fw 190 was specially modified bomber destroyer designed for attacking American heavy bomber formations from extremely close ranges and from behind. It was fitted with additional armour plating around the cockpit and the ammunition boxes, and with extra panels of laminated glass (called Panzerscheiben) on the sides of the cockpit canopy . It was armed with Mk 108s.

The B-24s of 445th Bomber Group which were attacked lost 30 of its 35 aircraft in a matter of minutes. JG 3 attacked first then JG 300 along with JG 4. JG 3 shot down 18 B-24's without a single loss and the other 2 units (as well as I./JG 300, which was equipped with the Bf 109G-6 escort for the SturmFWs) accounted for the remainder.

Finally, the US 361st Fighter Group (previously equipped with P-47s but now with P-51s, I believe) arrived and was able to down some 18 German fighters.


If you are looking for air-to-air battles, the one that developed after the heavily armed SturmFWs had already attacked the bombers and were engaged (along with their 109 escorts) with the American P-51 fighters might be a good one. The biggest problem is probably with the SturmFWs, but I'm sure something could be improvised. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm thinking P-51 D5 and P-47 D-27 vs. Bf-109 G6 A/S and FW-190 A9. Sound about right?

Luftwaffe_109
08-13-2005, 07:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luftwaffe_109:
Hi x__CRASH__x. Thanks for the kind words but just like everyone else I'm still learning. How about this one:

The Kassel aerial engagement (in Germany) which occurred on 27 September 1944. US 445th Bomber Group made a navigational error and turned at the wrong location. It was assaulted by all 3 Sturmgruppen, (JG 3, JG4 and JG300, inlcuding their 109 escorts from I./JG300).

These groups flew the Fw-190 A8 'Sturmbock'. This SturmFw version of the Fw 190 was specially modified bomber destroyer designed for attacking American heavy bomber formations from extremely close ranges and from behind. It was fitted with additional armour plating around the cockpit and the ammunition boxes, and with extra panels of laminated glass (called Panzerscheiben) on the sides of the cockpit canopy . It was armed with Mk 108s.

The B-24s of 445th Bomber Group which were attacked lost 30 of its 35 aircraft in a matter of minutes. JG 3 attacked first then JG 300 along with JG 4. JG 3 shot down 18 B-24's without a single loss and the other 2 units (as well as I./JG 300, which was equipped with the Bf 109G-6 escort for the SturmFWs) accounted for the remainder.

Finally, the US 361st Fighter Group (previously equipped with P-47s but now with P-51s, I believe) arrived and was able to down some 18 German fighters.


If you are looking for air-to-air battles, the one that developed after the heavily armed SturmFWs had already attacked the bombers and were engaged (along with their 109 escorts) with the American P-51 fighters might be a good one. The biggest problem is probably with the SturmFWs, but I'm sure something could be improvised. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm thinking P-51 D5 and P-47 D-27 vs. Bf-109 G6 A/S and FW-190 A9. Sound about right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah, that seems historical to me, as long as those SturmFWs are heavily armed.

Cheers

Luftwaffe_109
08-13-2005, 08:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I would love to know the specifcs of what prop fighter aircraft were included in these two scenarios. Also, what map you think would best represent the battle area? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
About the Soviet Jassy-Kishinev operation it will take me some time to organise my notes, but I€ll get back to you.

Regarding the Finnish air war against the Axis during the Lapland War:

It seems aerial operations were limited. The only air to air kill I know of occurred on 10th October 1944, where a Finnish Ju88A-4 (JK-256) from PLeLv.44 was shot down by a Bf 109G from 9./JG5.

A further total of five Finnish bombers were downed to AA:

- Bristol Blenheim BL-198 from PLeLv 42 on 2nd October, 1944
- Bristol Blenheim BL-190 from PLeLv 48 on 5th October, 1944
- Junkers Ju 88 JK-263 from PLeLv 44 on 15th October, 1944
- Bristol Blenheim BL-156 from PLeLv 42 on 18th October, 1944
- Ilyuchin DB-3 DB-16 from PLeLv 46 on 22th October, 1944

I€m also aware of an incident on 3rd October, 1944, where Six Finnish Brewster B-239 fighters intercepted 12 German Stukas over the northernmost part of Bothnian Gulf. I€m unaware of the outcome.

There was also another incident on 28th November, 1944, where Bf 109`s intercepted a Finnish Ju88 in the Lyngenfjord area, but the 88 escaped.

Finally, Finnish planes also attacked targets as far as Norway (the last mission of which occurred on 4th April 1945).

So the aircraft you could use:

Luftwaffe: Ju 88, Ju 188, Bf 109Gs, Stukas (and I believe also Fw 190s operated there as well, unsure about the subtype, A/Fs are probably ok).

Finnish Air Force: €œGhost Moriane€ Fighters, Brewster B-239, Ju 88A-4, Bristol Blenheim, Ilyuchin DB-3.

A note about Finnish Bf 109Gs. These were not used against the Germans during the Lapland War (partially due to poor forward airfields) although they did have them. So I suppose in addition to Brewster B-239s it would not be overly historically incorrect to use Bf 109Gs for Finland. It would still be a perfectly feasible encounter.

As for the map, the war occured in the extreme north of Finland, where the border with the north of Norway is. Murmansk is probably too far East, Online2Winter seems ok, lots of rivers and no large towns.

Luftwaffe_109
08-14-2005, 02:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> About the Soviet Jassy-Kishinev operation it will take me some time to organise my notes, but I€ll get back to you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some information:

In the aftermath of Rumania declaring war on the Axis, the two commenced air operations against one another. The Germans started to bomb the Rumanian capital Bucharest and the 7th and 9th Rumanian Fighter Groups were brought in for bomber interception.
By the start of September, the Rumanian 1st Air Corps had moved was moved to bases in southern Transylvania, from where it provided air support to the Rumanian and Soviet troops fighting the Germans and the Hungarians.
In September 1944, the Rumanian 1st Air Corps consisted of:

2nd Fighter Group: 65th and 66th Fighter Squadrons (IAR-81C)
6th Fighter Group: 59th, 61st and 62nd Fighter Squadrons (IAR-81C)
9th Fighter Group: 47th, 48th and 56th Fighter Squadrons (Bf-109G)

3rd Dive Bomber Group: 74th and 81st Dive Bomber Squadrons (Ju-87D5)
5th Bomber Group: 77th and 78th Bomber Squadrons (Ju-88A4)
8th Assault Group: 41st and 42nd Assault Squadrons (Hs-129B2)

11th and 12th Observation Squadrons (IAR-39)
2nd Long Range Recon Squadron (Ju-88D1)
Air Transport Squadron (Ju-52 and IAR-39, which towed DFS-230 gliders)

x__CRASH__x
08-14-2005, 02:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">9th Fighter Group: 47th, 48th and 56th Fighter Squadrons (Bf-109G) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One Oh Nine Gee... what?

And great info! I'll be adding that to the list! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Luftwaffe_109
08-14-2005, 02:28 AM
The latest were G6s but they also had G4s and G2s. It was a Rumanian Bf-109G6 I think that downed a German Bf-109K, if I'm not mistaken later in the war.