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Goat_of_Vermund
01-10-2019, 01:49 PM
Peacekeeper
Role: Mobile, Mixup intensive
Difficulty: Medium
Class: Assassin
Faction: Knight

Hero specific

Reflex Guard, Renown and Revenge: I leave them out, unchanged.

Dagger Cancel: Cancel Heavy Attacks by pressing L into a stab that causes bleed damage (400ms, Top Attack, 1 direct and 10 bleed damage over 5 seconds).

Zone Attack cancel: Cancel Zone Attack second hit by Feint, Dagger Cancel or Dodge.

Heavy Attack cancel: Cancel any Heavy Attack, Dashing Thrust or Sidestep Strike with Feint, Dagger Cancel or Dodge

Scent of Blood: Any bleed damage or damage on bleeding opponents restores stamina. The amount depends on the damage dealt.

Chain Starters: Dagger Cancel, Deep Gouge, Dashing Thrust, Sidestep Strike and the Second part of the Zone Attack acts as Chain starters.

Unstoppable Momentum: Heavy Finishers are unblockable.

Moveset:

First Light: 500ms, 13 damage
First Side Heavy: 800ms, 20 damage
First Top Heavy: 900ms, 25 damage

Twisting Blade: L, L, H, uH.
Second Light: 500ms, 17 damage.
First Heavy: 20 damage. 800ms (Side); 25 damage, 900ms (Top)
Second Heavy: Unblockable, 30 damage, 900ms

Dervish Strikes: L, H, uH
First Heavy: 20 damage. 800ms (Side); 30 damage, 900ms (Top)
Second Heavy: Unblockable, 30 damage, 900ms

Sword Dance: H, H, uH
Second Heavy: 20 damage. 800ms (Side); 30 damage, 900ms (Top)
Third Heavy: Unblockable, 35 damage, 900ms


Deep gouge: H*, L. Guaranteed if the heavy hits, deals 9 bleed damage over 3 seconds. Unusable on Dashing Thrust and Sidestep Strike confirmed hits.

Dashing Thrust: Forward dodge+Heavy. 20 damage, 600ms.

Sidestep Strike Side Dodge+Heavy. 15 damage, 600ms.

Stab: Q*+L, L, L
Succesful Guardbreaks can be followed up by Stab. Bleed starts thicking after the thirds stab, or after it is interrupted by an enemy or a throw. Throw range and throw mechanic unchanged (still hard to get a wallsplat).

First: 2 direct damage, 5 bleed over 5 seconds. Usable while exhausted.
Second: 2 direct damage, 5 bleed over 5 seconds. Usable while exhausted.
Third: 2 direct damage, 15 bleed over 5 seconds.

Riposting Stab: Deflect+Light Attack
The Light attack is Unblockable. Deals 20 direct damage and 15 bleed damage over 5 seconds.

Slipping Lounge: Run+Guardbreak.

Zoner Attack:
First Part: Light Attack, 15 damage, 500ms, stamina cost heavily reduced.
Second Part: Heavy attack, 35 damage, 1100ms. Confirms a Deep Gouge if hits.



Changes Summarized:

- All 400ms attacks removed, excluding Dagger Cancel: I don't think she needs them with these changes, and my ideas would be too much with existing 400 ms attacks. As compensation, the second part is more powerful.
- Chains and moves sewed together: With new chain starters and soft feints added to some moves, the peacekeeper can chain everything into everything now. Her current moveset is broken apart (she can barely do any real mixups), this would solve this problem, and would give her the mixup potential she needs to be viable.
- Deep Gouge and Dagger Cancel damage slightly reduced: She doesn't need so much confirmed bleed damage with my changes, her direct damage numbers are buffed as compensation. I added some change that might sound broken first: the first two stabs are usable if you get a guardbreak on an opponent even if you are exhausted. However, it's not so broken if you think about it this way: she gets nothing from guardbreaks if she is exhausted, not even a light, not even with a wall, and even if she brings the enemy to the ground, she gets now 20 damage, while others can very well get their full wall punish or at least 30-35 damage on the ground, and maybe a light even oos guardbreaks. The first two stabs deal 14 damage together,so nothing broken, she will get 39 damage if she manages to catch an exhausted opponent, 14 if not exhausted. This is not an important part however, just something that bothered me for a few months.
- Guardbreak softfeints removed: It is too powerful with these changes. It's not a good mechanic either, it's something that slows the fight.
-New effect added: Scent of Blood: With this effect's stamina regeneration, she would have access to further pressure without overbuffing. She needs something like nobushi or shaman, since she is a bleed hero, this effect would work excellently, and would encourage her to be more aggressive if she landed a bleed.
- Unblockables added: Openers are very important against overly passive players. I don't think the pk needs extensive amounts since she is built on speed and agility, not strenght, but I extended all chains with an unblockable heavy attack at the end. At least one uncountered heavy must be thrown in neutral any way to get access to an unblockable- this way, she would get hard access to them, but would get access to them against opponents letting full chains thrown (since softfeints restart chains, it means actual chains with fully counterable attacks without any fancy softfeints). Maybe a new animation required to show how she is getting more momentum, but her current chainfinishers look believable as unblockables.
- Improved dodge attacks: Since dodging and dodge attacks are an important part of her kit, I added new softfeints for them and the ability to hardfeint them. They are highly telegraphed anyway, the dagger cancel would bring some neutral viability to it. I lessened the damage on them by removing deep gouge, they are now damagewise in line with or below other dodge attacks.




I think these changes would highly improve this character without breaking her. I think these changes would be enough for A tier, she would still keep the weaknesses of low damage, weakness against armor, weakness against superior range, and relatively low counterattacks (by the way, her current numbers are even lower). What do you think about these changes? Please, write down your opinions with constructive criticism!

Sneakly20
01-10-2019, 02:21 PM
Peacekeeper
Role: Mobile, Mixup intensive
Difficulty: Medium
Class: Assassin
Faction: Knight

Hero specific

Reflex Guard, Renown and Revenge: I leave them out, unchanged.

Dagger Cancel: Cancel Heavy Attacks by pressing L into a stab that causes bleed damage (400ms, Top Attack, 1 direct and 10 bleed damage over 5 seconds).

Zone Attack cancel: Cancel Zone Attack second hit by Feint, Dagger Cancel or Dodge.

Heavy Attack cancel: Cancel any Heavy Attack, Dashing Thrust or Sidestep Strike with Feint, Dagger Cancel or Dodge

Scent of Blood: Any bleed damage or damage on bleeding opponents restores stamina. The amount depends on the damage dealt.

Chain Starters: Dagger Cancel, Deep Gouge, Dashing Thrust, Sidestep Strike and the Second part of the Zone Attack acts as Chain starters.

Unstoppable Momentum: Heavy Finishers are unblockable.

Moveset:

First Light: 500ms, 13 damage
First Side Heavy: 800ms, 20 damage
First Top Heavy: 900ms, 25 damage

Twisting Blade: L, L, H, uH.
Second Light: 500ms, 17 damage.
First Heavy: 20 damage. 800ms (Side); 25 damage, 900ms (Top)
Second Heavy: Unblockable, 30 damage, 900ms

Dervish Strikes: L, H, uH
First Heavy: 20 damage. 800ms (Side); 30 damage, 900ms (Top)
Second Heavy: Unblockable, 30 damage, 900ms

Sword Dance: H, H, uH
Second Heavy: 20 damage. 800ms (Side); 30 damage, 900ms (Top)
Third Heavy: Unblockable, 35 damage, 900ms


Deep gouge: H*, L. Guaranteed if the heavy hits, deals 9 bleed damage over 3 seconds. Unusable on Dashing Thrust and Sidestep Strike confirmed hits.

Dashing Thrust: Forward dodge+Heavy. 20 damage, 600ms.

Sidestep Strike Side Dodge+Heavy. 15 damage, 600ms.

Stab: Q*+L, L, L
Succesful Guardbreaks can be followed up by Stab. Bleed starts thicking after the thirds stab, or after it is interrupted by an enemy or a throw. Throw range and throw mechanic unchanged (still hard to get a wallsplat).

First: 2 direct damage, 5 bleed over 5 seconds. Usable while exhausted.
Second: 2 direct damage, 5 bleed over 5 seconds. Usable while exhausted.
Third: 2 direct damage, 15 bleed over 5 seconds.

Riposting Stab: Deflect+Light Attack
The Light attack is Unblockable. Deals 20 direct damage and 15 bleed damage over 5 seconds.

Slipping Lounge: Run+Guardbreak.

Zoner Attack:
First Part: Light Attack, 15 damage, 500ms, stamina cost heavily reduced.
Second Part: Heavy attack, 35 damage, 1100ms. Confirms a Deep Gouge if hits.



Changes Summarized:

- All 400ms attacks removed, excluding Dagger Cancel: I don't think she needs them with these changes, and my ideas would be too much with existing 400 ms attacks. As compensation, the second part is more powerful.
- Chains and moves sewed together: With new chain starters and soft feints added to some moves, the peacekeeper can chain everything into everything now. Her current moveset is broken apart (she can barely do any real mixups), this would solve this problem, and would give her the mixup potential she needs to be viable.
- Deep Gouge and Dagger Cancel damage slightly reduced: She doesn't need so much confirmed bleed damage with my changes, her direct damage numbers are buffed as compensation. I added some change that might sound broken first: the first two stabs are usable if you get a guardbreak on an opponent even if you are exhausted. However, it's not so broken if you think about it this way: she gets nothing from guardbreaks if she is exhausted, not even a light, not even with a wall, and even if she brings the enemy to the ground, she gets now 20 damage, while others can very well get their full wall punish or at least 30-35 damage on the ground, and maybe a light even oos guardbreaks. The first two stabs deal 14 damage together,so nothing broken, she will get 39 damage if she manages to catch an exhausted opponent, 14 if not exhausted. This is not an important part however, just something that bothered me for a few months.
- Guardbreak softfeints removed: It is too powerful with these changes. It's not a good mechanic either, it's something that slows the fight.
-New effect added: Scent of Blood: With this effect's stamina regeneration, she would have access to further pressure without overbuffing. She needs something like nobushi or shaman, since she is a bleed hero, this effect would work excellently, and would encourage her to be more aggressive if she landed a bleed.
- Unblockables added: Openers are very important against overly passive players. I don't think the pk needs extensive amounts since she is built on speed and agility, not strenght, but I extended all chains with an unblockable heavy attack at the end. At least one uncountered heavy must be thrown in neutral any way to get access to an unblockable- this way, she would get hard access to them, but would get access to them against opponents letting full chains thrown (since softfeints restart chains, it means actual chains with fully counterable attacks without any fancy softfeints). Maybe a new animation required to show how she is getting more momentum, but her current chainfinishers look believable as unblockables.
- Improved dodge attacks: Since dodging and dodge attacks are an important part of her kit, I added new softfeints for them and the ability to hardfeint them. They are highly telegraphed anyway, the dagger cancel would bring some neutral viability to it. I lessened the damage on them by removing deep gouge, they are now damagewise in line with or below other dodge attacks.


I think these changes would highly improve this character without breaking her. I think these changes would be enough for A tier, she would still keep the weaknesses of low damage, weakness against armor, weakness against superior range, and relatively low counterattacks (by the way, her current numbers are even lower). What do you think about these changes? Please, write down your opinions with constructive criticism!

So I like what you did overall. The stamina idea was amazing. By far my favorite part as well as feint on the dash heavies.

The GB soft feint is needed. It catches people that try to parry on indicator thinking they are lights. Most characters anyway.

Second you need to throw the 400ms back in.to block 500ms isnít particularly difficult. Right now your current set up has no pressure at all. Sure you have the unblockable finished but there is no way to get to it.

Goat_of_Vermund
01-10-2019, 04:13 PM
Yes, maybe it's needed. I wanted to add some bash, earlier unblockable or keep some 400ms, but I did not want to overdo it. I thought that all the feint options are enough for pressure, basically everything can be feinted into everything. Maybe she really needs at least one solid opener, or ubs have to happen earlier.

Lord_Cherubi
01-10-2019, 04:46 PM
Sounds good to me, she needs way more options. Hell, even the ability to feint dodge attacks alone would improve her so much

Sneakly20
01-10-2019, 05:42 PM
Yes, maybe it's needed. I wanted to add some bash, earlier unblockable or keep some 400ms, but I did not want to overdo it. I thought that all the feint options are enough for pressure, basically everything can be feinted into everything. Maybe she really needs at least one solid opener, or ubs have to happen earlier.

Perhaps a quick bash that gives you a deep gouge and combos? Then her blood scent would kick in. ( give it a different name, blood scent and blood trance are too close. Perhaps crimson veil or something.)

Another thing I would like to add is an execute. Her bash would change if her opponent is under X amount of health and the move would have a unique animation and it would instantly kill them. Maybe even make the startup longer or something. That would make her super scary 😂 just an idea.

Overall this a very good start to a PK change and I like it a lot personally. Can definitely back this. One last thing. Her zone. I already said she needs to have 400ms attacks back. Perhaps not on her zone. Maybe itís 500ms but get rid of the second part but she uses both blades and has a heavy hit reaction. Because right now itís 400ms with light hit ( stops move) and with it changed it basically makes it a light. So this would have the same damage and reaction as roach and Warden zone.

Ubiflowessence
01-10-2019, 07:41 PM
Thanks for taking the time to share this and I'll forward these suggestions along to the fight team!

Would Peacekeeper be too OP if these changes were to be implemented with 400ms attack?

Sneakly20
01-10-2019, 08:26 PM
Thanks for taking the time to share this and I'll forward these suggestions along to the fight team!

Would Peacekeeper be too OP if these changes were to be implemented with 400ms attack?

Shouldnít be. As far as Iím concerned the only 400ms attacks are 2nd combo light and soft feint top bleed from heavy. The 400ms zone would be leaving being replaced with a 20 damage 500 ms zone. So it should work out to be a flexible rework for PK. Granted the changes work out 😂

Goat_of_Vermund
01-10-2019, 08:27 PM
I was always terrible with naming, just wanted to give a placeholder name. Crimson veil sounds better. : )

When I thought about these changes, I tried to keep in mind how I would play this pk (I am only rep 30 with her, so I am far from the bests). One of the best pressure tools of her with these changes would be softfeinting dodge attacks into each other, finishing some with dagger cancels (which is still 400ms, though very easy to punish if overused), some with hardfeints into a light, zone or gb etc. Bleeds on enemies would let her keep dancing around for a longer time, and her improved dodge attacks would make her better against bashes or similar moves.

I also wanted to avoid recreating what she was, since others already took over her place as spam queen/king, so my aim was also to make her a fair opponent. 400ms attacks are usually not funt to fight against, they are basically a test for avarage people, not really mindgames, you are either fast enough and have a good computer, in which case orochies fall like leaves, or you do not meet requirements and lose. That is why I think she shouln't have easy 400ms attacks, but I don't say some of her attacks shouldn't have 400ms or even less time to react to. For example the dodge attack's transition into the dagger cancel/hardfeint can happen very late, giving very little time to react, but enough time to guess and make the right preparations.


What I wanted to add as a bash was a simple softfeint: the forward dodge attack would have been cancelable with the guardbreak button into a kick/shouldercharge for a free light attack, similar to valk's and kensei's similar openers. That might be necessary on higher levels, but I wanted to create something without the need of motion capture. If motion capture is needed, it is more unlikely it will happen. A buff that might not break her would be making every third, not fourth attacks in the chains unblockable, that is not easy to access, but not that unlikely either.

Col.Bullet
01-11-2019, 07:33 AM
Really liking this so far. ďScent of Bloodď would reward her for being aggressive and utilizing her kit, wich would definately be appreciated. Also your reasoning regarding 400ms lights and UBs. As they can have a place, just not as main tools.
Also want to disregard the immediate call for a bash in the comments: We have enough of those already, don't need another one-trick-pony.

Col.Bullet
01-11-2019, 07:42 AM
On another note: How about giving her deflect superior block property? Or all assassins in general? As it is hard enough to pull off, where parry seems just safer, as you can't be hit during the animation. This would reward attention by giving access to both damage and interruption, albeit with high risk.

Knight_Raime
01-11-2019, 07:49 AM
Stamina gain doesn't feel thematic of her. If you wanted to roll with a stamina change it would be much better to just reduce the stamina costs of her moves while her opponent is bleeding.
She only has three 400ms attacks, her second light, first hit of zone, and her soft feint. Removing is a straight up nerf and is entirely not needed. Same with removing her soft feint to GB. Dagger cancel both from heavy and from zone are dodged on heavy indicator which also avoids the heavy. The soft feint GB is what covers that up.

If you're going to improve her dodge heavies you're better off giving it a variable input. Feintable doesn't really help her like it does for tiandi and JJ. Where as the varied input would.
Either deep gouge or dagger cancel should be a chain starter. Not both. Finally making her heavy finishers unblockables do not make them openers. Openers are something you can pretty much access from neutral that can't be responded to with a single option. Due to how telegraphed they are and the speed of them it would not be hard to react to whatever she chooses to do with them. IF we were to give her an unblockable attack I think it should be a new attack that she only has access to while the opponent is bleeding. Kind of like how Shaman can only bite during bleed.

I also think we should allow her to dry up her current bleed procs via a deflect that executes. She struggles to get executions due to no heavy on GB. And this chunk damage would fit her thematically. Basically meaning she can amplify the damage of her deflect via sacrificing all of her current bleed damage into one big stab.

Goat_of_Vermund
01-11-2019, 06:53 PM
Stamina gain doesn't feel thematic of her. If you wanted to roll with a stamina change it would be much better to just reduce the stamina costs of her moves while her opponent is bleeding.
She only has three 400ms attacks, her second light, first hit of zone, and her soft feint. Removing is a straight up nerf and is entirely not needed. Same with removing her soft feint to GB. Dagger cancel both from heavy and from zone are dodged on heavy indicator which also avoids the heavy. The soft feint GB is what covers that up.

If you're going to improve her dodge heavies you're better off giving it a variable input. Feintable doesn't really help her like it does for tiandi and JJ. Where as the varied input would.
Either deep gouge or dagger cancel should be a chain starter. Not both. Finally making her heavy finishers unblockables do not make them openers. Openers are something you can pretty much access from neutral that can't be responded to with a single option. Due to how telegraphed they are and the speed of them it would not be hard to react to whatever she chooses to do with them. IF we were to give her an unblockable attack I think it should be a new attack that she only has access to while the opponent is bleeding. Kind of like how Shaman can only bite during bleed.

I also think we should allow her to dry up her current bleed procs via a deflect that executes. She struggles to get executions due to no heavy on GB. And this chunk damage would fit her thematically. Basically meaning she can amplify the damage of her deflect via sacrificing all of her current bleed damage into one big stab.

What I agree with:

You are completely right about the dagger cancel being optionselect-dodged. That could be solved with better tracking, or maybe with a full undodgable property. That would also replace the softfeint gb, which makes her too safe and discourages opponnets going for parries. Her second light might also remain 400ms, but her zone really shouldn't be 400ms, with these buffs, a neutral 400ms move is too much. I agree with these attacks not being openers, they are attacks that punish those players not reacting to anything. Finally, I really like your suggestion about special attacks against bleeding targets. I had a simple idea earlier: against bleeding targets, her forward dodge attack is unblockable, with all the softfeints and feints I mentioned. That might be a very good replacement for other unblockable heavies, that would be really threatening, undodgable dagger cancel softfeints would beat dodges, dodging out for deflects/dodge attacks would beat parry attempts.


What I disagree with:

She really needs this passive way to regen stamina, her stamina usage is poor, but an outright stamina buff would only encourage the older spamturtle playstyle with zones, especially if they remain 400ms. Variable input is not a bad thing, but she also needs these softfeints from dodge attacks, simply because she should be very mobile, and dodge attacks should be mixups, not just punish tools. Finally, I think both deep gouge and dagger cancel could be a chainstarter, but it depends of course on which parts of this are integrated, and which parts aren't.

Sneakly20
01-11-2019, 06:55 PM
Stamina gain doesn't feel thematic of her. If you wanted to roll with a stamina change it would be much better to just reduce the stamina costs of her moves while her opponent is bleeding.
She only has three 400ms attacks, her second light, first hit of zone, and her soft feint. Removing is a straight up nerf and is entirely not needed. Same with removing her soft feint to GB. Dagger cancel both from heavy and from zone are dodged on heavy indicator which also avoids the heavy. The soft feint GB is what covers that up.

If you're going to improve her dodge heavies you're better off giving it a variable input. Feintable doesn't really help her like it does for tiandi and JJ. Where as the varied input would.
Either deep gouge or dagger cancel should be a chain starter. Not both. Finally making her heavy finishers unblockables do not make them openers. Openers are something you can pretty much access from neutral that can't be responded to with a single option. Due to how telegraphed they are and the speed of them it would not be hard to react to whatever she chooses to do with them. IF we were to give her an unblockable attack I think it should be a new attack that she only has access to while the opponent is bleeding. Kind of like how Shaman can only bite during bleed.

I also think we should allow her to dry up her current bleed procs via a deflect that executes. She struggles to get executions due to no heavy on GB. And this chunk damage would fit her thematically. Basically meaning she can amplify the damage of her deflect via sacrificing all of her current bleed damage into one big stab.

As long as additional effect is in place while the target bleeds Iíll be happy. Why not give her dodge heavies both varied input and make it feintable. For as telegraphed as it is Iím sure both can fly. Then again it may not.

Deep gouge and dagger cancel both should definitely be chain starters. That would be awesome, especially since it would add pressure I would imagine. Since it would be either then follow into the 400ms light. Not like this is a new idea.

And on the deflect you mean that if she consumes the bleeds on a target the deflect damage as a whole goes up? Execute on deflect has been thrown around several times so being able to do so here would be a good opportunity. My question is how mich damage would this do according to X amount of bleed?

As for the stamina thing. Maybe instead of stamina gain on bleed just buff her stamina and and while a target is bleeding and you apply an additional bleed would multiply the bleeds accordingly that way your deflect would be even better.

RolandVermund: undodgeable on the bleed would be a bit much in my eyes especially since itís 400ms and it has a soft fient into Guardbreak. So perhaps keep the GB or get rid of it but keep the undodgeable bleed?

D3dicatedSrv3rz
01-12-2019, 07:11 AM
Now why would the two people on the dev team not focused on balancing the new overpowered trash, adding more weekly cosmetic fluff to the game, and creating contenting semi-worthy of a year 3 season pass add these much needed changes to this C- tier hero when she has bleeds that can stack (minus double guard-breaks)

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