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darkhorizon11
11-27-2006, 07:52 AM
Theres a lot of issues here I know but this is purely hypothetical. Say in a different world where Plutonomim can't be created and the atom bomb didn't exist so the Allies have no choice but to invade mainland Japan...

What type of aircraft and combat would take place? Given the Japanese do have a decent amount of fuel to get aircraft in the air by 1946...

Heres what I figured...

United States:

P-51D and H
P-47N
Tigercats
Bearcats
YP-80/P-80s
JB-2 Loon cruise missiles
B-29

Soviet Union:

IL-10
Yak-9
Yak-3
KingCobra (through lend lease)

Great Britain

Seafires
American aircraft stated above under FAA colors
Gloster Meteors
Hawker Sea Fury

Japan (this one I'm confused about because theres no less than 30 late war prototypes with two or three models built)

A6M7
Ki-84
J2M3 and J2MR
Ki44
K-45
Orange Blossom (mini Me-262)
MXY kamikaze rockets
old G4M bombers
J8M
J7W

What else?

darkhorizon11
11-27-2006, 07:52 AM
Theres a lot of issues here I know but this is purely hypothetical. Say in a different world where Plutonomim can't be created and the atom bomb didn't exist so the Allies have no choice but to invade mainland Japan...

What type of aircraft and combat would take place? Given the Japanese do have a decent amount of fuel to get aircraft in the air by 1946...

Heres what I figured...

United States:

P-51D and H
P-47N
Tigercats
Bearcats
YP-80/P-80s
JB-2 Loon cruise missiles
B-29

Soviet Union:

IL-10
Yak-9
Yak-3
KingCobra (through lend lease)

Great Britain

Seafires
American aircraft stated above under FAA colors
Gloster Meteors
Hawker Sea Fury

Japan (this one I'm confused about because theres no less than 30 late war prototypes with two or three models built)

A6M7
Ki-84
J2M3 and J2MR
Ki44
K-45
Orange Blossom (mini Me-262)
MXY kamikaze rockets
old G4M bombers
J8M
J7W

What else?

Tater-SW-
11-27-2006, 07:59 AM
The japanese DON'T have a lot of fuel. The whole point of the war was to grab the oil fields in the NEI since they imported virtually all of their oil (~80% imported from the US, BTW).

They'd be just as hamstrung, it'd be streams of nighttime B-29 raids burning cities to the ground until the invasion.

BTW, almost 60% of SOVIET fuel came from the US during the war.

tater

Fox_3
11-27-2006, 08:46 AM
This site may be of interest regarding the IJ.

http://www.j-aircraft.org/xplanes/<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/Sapper646/sig_12.jpg

R_Target
11-27-2006, 08:58 AM
Add N1K2 and maybe Ki-87.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

*+
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2318/sovsigke1.jpg

Xiolablu3
11-27-2006, 09:01 AM
De Havilland Vampire for British<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I despise what you say; I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire

Aaron_GT
11-27-2006, 09:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Great Britain

Seafires
American aircraft stated above under FAA colors
Gloster Meteors
Hawker Sea Fury </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You are missing one of the aircraft that actually did attack Tokyo (in 1945) - The Fairey Firefly.

Plus in a hypothetical 1946 situation you'd also have the Vampire, Spiteful, Hornet, Brigand, Sea Mosquito (TR33 and 37), and Lincoln.

Platypus_1.JaVA
11-27-2006, 10:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
The japanese DON'T have a lot of fuel. The whole point of the war was to grab the oil fields in the NEI since they imported virtually all of their oil (~80% imported from the US, BTW).

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the weird thing is that the allies never really did make an attempt to liberate the NEI and so cut off Japanese main oil supply. As I believe, not a lot of effort was made to destroy the whole petro-chemical industry there. Maybe they just gambled on sinking all of their ships in open seas with submarines and air attacks for denying the NEI oil supply to the japanese.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://www.f19vs.se/fokker_now.jpg

darkhorizon11
11-27-2006, 12:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
The japanese DON'T have a lot of fuel. The whole point of the war was to grab the oil fields in the NEI since they imported virtually all of their oil (~80% imported from the US, BTW).

They'd be just as hamstrung, it'd be streams of nighttime B-29 raids burning cities to the ground until the invasion.

BTW, almost 60% of SOVIET fuel came from the US during the war.

tater </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats why I said hypothetical cowboy. IRL by early 1946 there would probably be no Japanese planes in the air.

Do you have a source for that fuel thing, if its true I find it interesting...

ImpStarDuece
11-27-2006, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
Theres a lot of issues here I know but this is purely hypothetical. Say in a different world where Plutonomim can't be created and the atom bomb didn't exist so the Allies have no choice but to invade mainland Japan...

What type of aircraft and combat would take place? Given the Japanese do have a decent amount of fuel to get aircraft in the air by 1946...

Heres what I figured...

United States:

P-51D and H
P-47N
Tigercats
Bearcats
YP-80/P-80s
JB-2 Loon cruise missiles
B-29

Soviet Union:

IL-10
Yak-9
Yak-3
KingCobra (through lend lease)

Great Britain

Seafires
American aircraft stated above under FAA colors
Gloster Meteors
Hawker Sea Fury

Japan (this one I'm confused about because theres no less than 30 late war prototypes with two or three models built)

A6M7
Ki-84
J2M3 and J2MR
Ki44
K-45
Orange Blossom (mini Me-262)
MXY kamikaze rockets
old G4M bombers
J8M
J7W

What else? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Filling out you RAF list for you:

Spitfire VIII and XVIII
Seafire XV and XVII
Gloster Meteor III
deHaviland Vampire I
Hawker Tempest II (slated to be the RAFs main fighter in the Far East by the end of 1945)

Hawker Sea Fury didn't see FAA service unitl 1948, although production aircraft began rolling off the line in Sep-1946. A continued war would of expedited this somewhat.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

ImpStarDuece,

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

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-Carl Jung

darkhorizon11
11-27-2006, 01:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:


Filling out you RAF list for you:

Spitfire VIII and XVIII
Seafire XV and XVII
Gloster Meteor III
deHaviland Vampire I
Hawker Tempest II (slated to be the RAFs main fighter in the Far East by the end of 1945)

Hawker Sea Fury didn't see FAA service unitl 1948, although production aircraft began rolling off the line in Sep-1946. A continued war would of expedited this somewhat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh wow I thought the Sea Fury was closer to seeing combat in the war than that!

What about the Tempest II, was she a carrier borne version?

JG53Frankyboy
11-27-2006, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
..................... As I believe, not a lot of effort was made to destroy the whole petro-chemical industry there. Maybe they just gambled on sinking all of their ships in open seas with submarines .......... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

and the USN was VERY effective in that !

Warrington_Wolf
11-27-2006, 01:37 PM
Wasn't the Avro Lincoln brought into service in July 1945. Im fairly sure that it would have been used in the pacific, if the A-bomb hadn't been invented.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Panic on the streets of London
Panic on the streets of Birmingham
I wonder to myself
Could life ever be sane again

Tater-SW-
11-27-2006, 01:47 PM
We did sink all their ships with submarines, effectively. The japanese never convoyed ships effectively, and have virtually no ASW capability because it was looked down upon as "defensive." Bombing took place once we could do it, but it wasn't as effective as simply sinking their tiny fleet of tankers (they started the war with barely enough tankers, every one lost was critical).

tater

JG53Frankyboy
11-27-2006, 02:38 PM
some japanese possibilities:

Army:
- Ki-100 II
turbosuperchaged engine for better high alt performance

- Ki-102a/b
twin engines/two seat high alt interceptor or ground attack variant

- Ki-67
twin engined bomber

- Ki-83
twin engined/sinlge seat fighter, comparable to the F7F

- Ki-84
improved versions

- Ki-119
single engine/single seat fighterbomber/Kamikaze plane

- Ki-115
Kamikaze plane

Navy
- B7A
multirole attack/dive bomber

-N1K4 or 5
improved Shiden-Kais

-J7W
the famous canard fighter

-A6M8
with Mitsubishi engine improved Zero, 6300 were ordered !!

-A7M2
or the A7M3 (with turbosuperchaged engine for better high alt performance and 6x20mm canons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

-J8M
Me163 like rocket interceptor

-P4Y
two engined medium bomber, comparable to the Ju88

- G8N
4 engined , heavy bomber

VW-IceFire
11-27-2006, 04:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:


Filling out you RAF list for you:

Spitfire VIII and XVIII
Seafire XV and XVII
Gloster Meteor III
deHaviland Vampire I
Hawker Tempest II (slated to be the RAFs main fighter in the Far East by the end of 1945)

Hawker Sea Fury didn't see FAA service unitl 1948, although production aircraft began rolling off the line in Sep-1946. A continued war would of expedited this somewhat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh wow I thought the Sea Fury was closer to seeing combat in the war than that!

What about the Tempest II, was she a carrier borne version? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tempest II would be employed in China on land bases. Probably originally from staging bases in India. The Tempest II is essentially the same as the Mark V but with the more reliable Centaurus radial engine. Its almost easy to mistake one for a Focke Wulf. With even higher speed and slightly better handling the Tempest II would be a dangerous foe to any of the best Japanese fighters.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/icefire-tempestv.jpg
Find my missions at Flying Legends (http://www.flying-legends.net/php/downloads/downloads.php?cat_id=19) and Mission4Today.com (http://www.mission4today.com).