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View Full Version : Oleg you are wrong about the ww2 planes having big gun flashes



XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 01:44 PM
Oleg you are wrong about the ww2 planes having big gun flahes

http://www.iwm.org.uk/online/batbritsound/intro.htm

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 01:44 PM
Oleg you are wrong about the ww2 planes having big gun flahes

http://www.iwm.org.uk/online/batbritsound/intro.htm

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 04:16 PM
Is that so?

If you have some reliable source that Oleg hasn't seen I suggest you post it in ORR instead. But just to let you know, this has been mentioned since Il2 hit the shelves some 20 months ago.

<center>

http://www.webforum.nu/member/Fornixx/190.JPG</p>
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CWoS Asshat since 2003</p>

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 04:21 PM
Oh yeah this one is going down in flames I can feel it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


P47|FC=-
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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 05:18 PM
Whether the flashes are realistic or not is unimportant in a GAME!
I think they are an impressive effect and actually add to the game not detract from it.

S! Simon.
<center>


<font color="#000000">It's my attitude not my aptitude that determines my altitude.</font>
http://extremeone.4t.com/images/sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 05:31 PM
Were there flashes in FB? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Sorry, I didn't see that cause too busy during the fight.

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 06:39 AM
Extreme wrote:

"Whether the flashes are realistic or not is unimportant in a GAME!
I think they are an impressive effect and actually add to the game not detract from it."


That is the best argument I've ever seen on the topic, and it relates to lots of other points of argument in this (and other) games.

The flashes do look pretty cool. In real life they were big, but their duration was so infintessimally short that they did not block your vision. Go fire some real weapons and you'll see exactly what I mean.

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 06:48 AM
Likely spoken by people who fly planes with guns in the wings.

Tell *ME* the flashes aren't overdone when my gun package is in the cowl and the nose. The flash *routinely* keeps me from tracking where tracer are going, seeing the results of MG fired, and in the case of large caliber nose guns, enveloping the target almost completely.

If you don't understand the difference between what a still camera "displays on film" and what the human eye "perceives", stay out of the discussion. You don't know what we're talking about.

As for "it's a game", that's the standard excuse people use when they have nothing to add to the discussion, and the phenomenon in question doesn't affect them.

Even if it IS a game, it's also a 'simulation', where the goal is to get things AS ACCURATE AS POSSIBLE. This is clearly not simulated well, and the change would be a change to a an animated sprite or two. It'd take a couple of minutes (sort of like the 15 minutes it reputedly took them to find the sound bug that's ravaging just about everyone in 1.1b).

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:06 AM
No Text

Message Edited on 08/25/0309:55AM by OberstWiley

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:14 AM
I don't have any real world knowledge about this subject, but the suggestion that the DURATION of the flashes may be the problem is certainly something that might be looked into.

I would love to have the DURATION of the flashes cut down just to see what it would look like.

Have you ever tried to fire all 4 cannons in a ME-262? Not only can't you see a thing, you get a slide show from the tremendous drop in frame rate. Whether this is realistic or not, I don't know...but sacrifices are sometimes made for the sake of gameplay (even in FB), so I don't see why a person should be persecuted for simply bringing up the discussion.

Aviar

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XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:19 AM
Frame drops from firing the 262 everything? Never seen that!

Course, my new computer is a monster /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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I'm just saying...


<Center><img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwC4BKYUc8NdMGbLmK6nXDVLh2PHDHXJaQ1bq!8G7LP4M88wB FsyxFjf4d*z6zBGsbDWqHu7YGhkgzyCM27ZtHoOdC*BEG5*v4s Dst1JT1g/sig.jpg> </Center>

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:28 AM
........did you hear something? Nevermind........it was nothing.

Aviar

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XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:29 AM
Ok kids... calm down.

The question is:

Do we want this GAME to be a SIMULATOR (and to try to copy real world effects) or do we want it to be a GAME with flashes and skidmarksounds on ice etc etc??

I say why not make it more realistic, it would be just better if it was more realistic. Realism is no.1 feature in a simulator. In fact, that is what a simulator strives to accomplish;

"To simulate reality."


So if we want this to be a game, let the flashes stay. And make the hardcore gamers happy.


If we want this to be a simulator, let them work on the muzzleflashes and make them more realistic. And thus make the simmers happy.


End of Story.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



/Petter_Gul
CO, Flygflottilj 16
#1 Swedish Virtual Squadron
http://www.f16vs.tk
_________________________

"Slider.... You Stink..."

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:32 AM
Aviar wrote:
- ........did you hear something? Nevermind........it
- was nothing.
-
- Aviar
-


You hate me, don't you?



/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif I understand why

-------
I'm just saying...


<Center><img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwC4BKYUc8NdMGbLmK6nXDVLh2PHDHXJaQ1bq!8G7LP4M88wB FsyxFjf4d*z6zBGsbDWqHu7YGhkgzyCM27ZtHoOdC*BEG5*v4s Dst1JT1g/sig.jpg> </Center>

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:32 AM
Petter_Gul wrote:
- Ok kids... calm down.
-
- The question is:
-
- Do we want this GAME to be a SIMULATOR (and to try
- to copy real world effects) or do we want it to be a
- GAME with flashes and skidmarksounds on ice etc
- etc??
-
- I say why not make it more realistic, it would be
- just better if it was more realistic. Realism is
- no.1 feature in a simulator. In fact, that is what a
- simulator strives to accomplish;
-
- "To simulate reality."
-
-
- So if we want this to be a game, let the flashes
- stay. And make the hardcore gamers happy.
-
-
- If we want this to be a simulator, let them work on
- the muzzleflashes and make them more realistic. And
- thus make the simmers happy.
-
-
- End of Story.

Well said. While the flashes are inaccurate,I don't really mind them unless they affect my aim. I wish at least the Me-262 would be toned down,if nothing else.


47|FC
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XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:36 AM
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XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:43 AM
The flashes may be correct at night where it is reported that Mk108 was not popular with LW night fighter pilots because they blinded the pilot. However, the FB flash grafix may be the same both night and day. In daytime, given the same flash as at night, the human eye is maybe 1 million times less sensitive to light, but the flash grafix is the same as at night. So the flash in day is badly wrong.

Maybe....somebody in Oleg's team coded something about the FLASH in an assembly language routine somewhere...and they can't find it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Me262 muzzle flash does freeze the image...but only in the higher zooms. In wide view, there is no flash. For me anyway. Just don't tell the Team this.

btw, displaying brightness ratios of a million is way beyond the possibilities of a computer monitor, so there will be little "realistic" about this no matter what is done about it.



Message Edited on 08/25/0306:47AM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:49 AM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
- btw, displaying brightness ratios of a million is
- way beyond the possibilities of a computer monitor,
- so there will be little "realistic" about this no
- matter what is done about it.


With that attitude, nothing is realistic then. And this is just a game.

I rest my case.


/Petter_Gul
CO, Flygflottilj 16
#1 Swedish Virtual Squadron
http://www.f16vs.tk
_________________________

"Slider.... You Stink..."

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:54 AM
Lexx Luther is quite right. I know a good bit about guns, and muzzle flash visability is entirely dependant on ambient light. Muzzle flash size is dependand on the amount and type of propellant. A .30 caliber can have a flash a foot long, maybe even longer with eastern european propellants. (My .308 does!) A machine gun would keep that flash going constantly.

However, you would only see these flashes at night, or indoors. (We won't be flying indoors, but if you did, it would be this way.)

The reason is the during the daylight hours the muzzle flash is invisable. IT's odd how something so extreamly stunning can be completely invisable depending on ambient light, but there it is.

The 30mm might have enough flash to be visable, but it would still be very dimm. At night on the other hand I bet it's a damn sight bigger then we ever see it in the game. Could easy be half as long as the plane.

One thing that is ABSOLUTELY wrong is the shape of the muzzle flashes. Much too even and symetrical.

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 08:41 AM
As a dedicated 109er, i can tell you that this has bothered me to no end. Despite hundreds of posts about this topic, there has been no change in the game. They really do need to do something about it.

For those that feel it adds to the game, here is a good compromise. At least make them less persistant and more transparent. There. Everyone is happy and we can stop talking about this.

Your Post Could Not Be Completed Because:

Board is busy currently unable to post.

Please make any needed corrections and try again.

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 08:43 AM
One thing I've noticed is the rudder pedals don't feel right and I can't smell the engine oil. I must admit the muzzle flashes do look a little cartoonish. And theres a little to much reverb in the gun sound.

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 10:29 AM
If you listen to one of the sound files in the original link.....you will hear the pilot talking about seeing gun-flashes in a head-on pass with a 109.

17 years later he was informed that he had destroyed it!!

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 02:21 PM
I believe that what the guys above said about the gun flashes looking different in the day vs the night is true (in real life), as I recall Oleg mentioning this way back in IL-2 days.

I'm also pretty sure that he said they were unable to code it for both, so they opted for the version we have today.

To the person who stated that he has no flashes in wide-view, I just tried it and the flashes are still there. (I know you said it was like that for YOU, but....../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )

Interesting though, I was curious about the no-cockpit view. I never use this (actually had to assign a command for it to test it out), but there was NO flash at all in this view. Man....these players really get a huge advantage using this view.

Aviar

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