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View Full Version : What I would have done with Gear



Illyrian_King
12-16-2018, 06:35 PM
I really like the Marching Fire expansion, but the Perk system really bugs me.

The problem is, that there is nothing to play for. Not some individuality or anything, just to make it more beginner friendly.

First of all, Stats (except revenge) didn't matter a thing. Like that extra 3dmg on an heavy broke the game or anything ;b


1) Exchange that disgusting Lootbox thing with an ordinary Forge/Crafting System, that allows players to craft their own stuff. One could still loot stuff after a match, but with the already known chances of getting something usefull. It would be much cooler to have controll and a cool item in front of you, of what you want to have. Every crafted item would be on the lowest level of it's rarity (1,7,13,19,25) and would have to be upgraded with Salvage.

2) Keep Stats and exchange all Revenge Stats with new ones. One would still have to come up with new ideas.

3) Keep Perks in form of gems (or anything more fitting) one could insert in a Refinement Slot. Such "Perk Items" would need to be looted after matches. It would be a reason to grind. There could also be a system to replace 2 unwanted Perk Items with 1 random new one. Here the whole random thing is not so much of a thing, since Perks are almost weightless and can also be neglected without any problem.

4) Change the Aquirement of Gear Level from the traditional "Rep every Hero" to a "General Rep". Imagine it like having a Rep of xxx on Knights, Samurai, Vikings, Wu Lin or maybe even for all Factions together on your account. Means if you have Warden on Rep 10 (or another value) you can craft and loot legendary gear for all Knight Heroes (or all Heroes). The Refinement with Perks would not fall much into weight, so it could still serve as that "extra bit" it was called by the devs and be unlocked with Rep 20 and 30 or higher. Something like a longer term ambition for those who want ...


End Note: All these changes would lead to true individuality in customization and give a lot of things to fight for and with even lower Rep restrictions. Things are easier to get and progression is given with much more possible choices.

Vendelkin
12-16-2018, 07:41 PM
Im sorry but i think most people disagree with your judgement of the old system.

The perk system definately needs a rework, but the old system was broken and made it very hard for new players/heroes to get into the game. It also made balancing harder. Stamina+ pure attack builds were extremely cancerous on certain characters.

My least favorite thing about the perk system is that even now you cant do any combination of the 7 a hero has a available. Certain perk combinations cant be finished by a measly 20 still needed in one stat but an extra 200 you dont need in another because of how the gears numbers work.

bhitrock
12-16-2018, 07:49 PM
I like points 1 and 3, but 2 and 4 don't convince me that much:
2: you said that stats "didn't matter a thing", so why bringing them back? Maybe I got something wrong, could you please explain it better?
4: why should you get high level gear for a hero you never played? This way leveling up your heroes would loose part of its purpose.


The Refinement with Perks would not fall much into weight, so it could still serve as that "extra bit" it was called by the devs and be unlocked with Rep 20 and 30 or higher. Something like a longer term ambition for those who want ...

I don't exactly understand what do you mean by that (maybe because of my poor english level). Does this mean players unlock perks only at rep 20? Even if this would fix what I said for the point 4, I think it's not a good idea to give such a powerful tool only to high-rep players (it would end up being terribly unbalanced). Even if the required rep level was lower (like 8), there would be too much of a gap between those players. It should be something more gradual imo.

Velentix
12-16-2018, 08:09 PM
I would far prefer this system to what we have now.

rbtfortune
12-16-2018, 08:17 PM
I dont't care for the perks system at all. There's no variety or room for creativity . The bonuses are bland and useless for the most part. I feel like I'm just earning salvage at this point with maxed gear. Even the cosmetic aspects don't have much variety.

Illyrian_King
12-16-2018, 09:24 PM
The perk system definately needs a rework, but the old system was broken and made it very hard for new players/heroes to get into the game. It also made balancing harder. Stamina+ pure attack builds were extremely cancerous on certain characters.

Not really ... if you didn't neglect everything else, you had around +10% Attack. If an average Attack deals 30dmg --> 33dmg. Projecting that on 150HP for an average hero, it would need an average light attack less to kill somebody. We are even talking about "high end" gear.

Defense and Defense Penetration nullified each other.

Stamina management was more forgiving.

Revenge builds were the worst, but that's why I propose to replace them with other new Stats.

I proposed in my point 4) how to make better gear more easy available to everybody. Please reread it.




I like points 1 and 3, but 2 and 4 don't convince me that much:
2: you said that stats "didn't matter a thing", so why bringing them back? Maybe I got something wrong, could you please explain it better?
4: why should you get high level gear for a hero you never played? This way leveling up your heroes would loose part of its purpose.


I don't exactly understand what do you mean by that (maybe because of my poor english level). Does this mean players unlock perks only at rep 20? Even if this would fix what I said for the point 4, I think it's not a good idea to give such a powerful tool only to high-rep players (it would end up being terribly unbalanced). Even if the required rep level was lower (like 8), there would be too much of a gap between those players. It should be something more gradual imo.

2) Gear didn't matter a lot, but it would at least do what you could expect from gear to a certain extent. Even if it's just +10% attack and defense. Even the defense is nullified by defense penetration. So you just have slightly more attack, better stamina and a proper revenge exchange could make it more interesting.

4) Because the devs made this bad change just to satisfy newbies, who didn't play most Heroes or even any Heroed. My proposal would help to get more intersting and actually mattering gear progression with lower rep restrictions, so people can't moan about it. You have something to grind for, that gives you most things early and keeps little bonuses if you keep going further. Also more possible builds, since this game offers close to no fighting indivualisation. Just ready made Heroes.

With the Perk Refinement I said, that they should be available with rep 20 and 30 to insert them in Refinement Slots. This is the extra little for later I was talking about. Perks are not strong and everybody will agree on that.




I would far prefer
this system to what we have now.

Thanks ;)




I dont't care for the perks system at all. There's no variety or room for creativity . The bonuses are bland and useless for the most part. I feel like I'm just earning salvage at this point with maxed gear. Even the cosmetic aspects don't have much variety.

That's what I am complaining about.

Velentix
12-16-2018, 11:10 PM
I like that having one hero at rep ten can allow you to loot better gear for same faction heroes. Would make me more willing to play other heroes.

Edit: I like this not because I think gear should play a huge role, but cringingly because I wouldnt have to wait for so long until I get the good looking gear lol.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
12-17-2018, 03:37 AM
I agree that the perk system is more like a puzzle than a creative expression, but in the end the revenge build was far too powerful.
They don't need to get rid of gear only tweak it.
And then making it easier for noobs to get into the game... Well I agree. I don't want to have that kind of advantage in a fight being a vet. I don't need gear help in crushing noob's. But I'm not going to put myself at a disadvantage but unequiping my gear since I usually fight vets.
I would prefer dominion with not gear, no perks, and no feats. Just random arrows, catapult fire, and ect. Like it would be in a battle.
Maybe being able to customize my own minion group that I can send to there death just to help contest a point until I arrive. It's kinda silly they just sit on B. Imagine instead of gearing your hero the game was more focused on gearing your minions. Like maybe you have different classes that you can use. Maybe some specialize in killing other minions while others specialise in defense and factions or tanking when they are on zones. Maybe some grant you more random catapult fire while others heal your when you are near them. Maybe some are very fast too spawn and fast runners to their objectives. Others specialise in bleed or poison. Some use smoke bombs. Ect. Minions are undervalued in this game and would be fun to customize your own small battalion.
Plus you could cosmetically customize them to look how you want them to. You could have a pack of wolves, soldiers, boars, archers, medics, lions, ninjas, komodo lizards, hawks ect.

Illyrian_King
12-17-2018, 12:02 PM
I like that having one hero at rep ten can allow you to loot better gear for same faction heroes. Would make me more willing to play other heroes.

Edit: I like this not because I think gear should play a huge role, but cringingly because I wouldnt have to wait for so long until I get the good looking gear lol.

Me personally, I want something to play for. Just earning cosmetics doesn't do it for me. Perks alone are not worth the cost and Stats were already pretty weak. That's why I want to combine both and make it more available to everybody. This way everybody has gear and it's more a thing of having your own build.




I agree that the perk system is more like a puzzle than a creative expression, but in the end the revenge build was far too powerful.
They don't need to get rid of gear only tweak it.
And then making it easier for noobs to get into the game... Well I agree. I don't want to have that kind of advantage in a fight being a vet. I don't need gear help in crushing noob's. But I'm not going to put myself at a disadvantage but unequiping my gear since I usually fight vets.
I would prefer dominion with not gear, no perks, and no feats. Just random arrows, catapult fire, and ect. Like it would be in a battle.
Maybe being able to customize my own minion group that I can send to there death just to help contest a point until I arrive. It's kinda silly they just sit on B. Imagine instead of gearing your hero the game was more focused on gearing your minions. Like maybe you have different classes that you can use. Maybe some specialize in killing other minions while others specialise in defense and factions or tanking when they are on zones. Maybe some grant you more random catapult fire while others heal your when you are near them. Maybe some are very fast too spawn and fast runners to their objectives. Others specialise in bleed or poison. Some use smoke bombs. Ect. Minions are undervalued in this game and would be fun to customize your own small battalion.
Plus you could cosmetically customize them to look how you want them to. You could have a pack of wolves, soldiers, boars, archers, medics, lions, ninjas, komodo lizards, hawks ect.

This is a thing i really love. I proposed minion cuszomization so often. I always talked about gearing your own minions and being able to navigate them with Quick Chat.
Every play would bring 1/4 of the whole soldiers into the match and great. I also proposed to have your own "Pet" Officier, that spawns every 2min after death.

What For Honor really lacks is influencing the battle. It's like you just join the same ready made battle for the 1000th time. I want to bring my own strategy to the field. This sector is very undeveloped.

Jazz117Volkov
12-17-2018, 12:09 PM
Having a system that encourages the purchasing of loot boxes is core to For Honor's revenue model. They're not going to discourage grinding in the slightest, in fact, the perk system makes grinding worse, which increases the steel spent on loot boxes. But don't get me wrong, while this is obviously a manipulative model, it is also why For Honor's support continues. You think they'd keep all that staff on the game if it wasn't still getting a strong return?

I'm all for making the perk system better, but don't bite the hand that feeds the mouth because teasing steel out of players seems wrong.

Illyrian_King
12-17-2018, 01:02 PM
Having a system that encourages the purchasing of loot boxes is core to For Honor's revenue model. They're not going to discourage grinding in the slightest, in fact, the perk system makes grinding worse, which increases the steel spent on loot boxes. But don't get me wrong, while this is obviously a manipulative model, it is also why For Honor's support continues. You think they'd keep all that staff on the game if it wasn't still getting a strong return?

I'm all for making the perk system better, but don't bite the hand that feeds the mouth because teasing steel out of players seems wrong.

Perks are not harder to get then Stats were, but Perks don't even pay off. That's why I constantly see people with 180gear and no Perk active. People stopped caring a lot, since Perks alone are almost useless. This system works worse from the grinding aspect. Most of their money still comes from executions and such stuff.

But coming back to my proposition, one could also make a crafted Shaft, Blade or whatever cost 3000Steel in legendary tier. That is not less, then what I actually pay for Lootboxes to get a piece I actually want. At least I know what it costs from the very beginning.

Inzzane_79
12-17-2018, 04:51 PM
Just get rid of perks and donīt come back with stats please. Make gear cosmetic only, no need for gearscore outside of arcade (which needs itīs own rework). Just look at other games and how much they earn with cosmetic stuff. Players are fine paying tons of money for cosmetics. Or grind days for them.

In a game like this there should never be an advantage for a veteran player outside of having more experience. Of course perks are not that much of an advantage but new players donīt know that, all they see is me with 3 active perks against them with maybe 1 active perk. They lose they blame it on the fact I had better gear and blame For Honor for being a game that is unfair to new players. Hell I even got Messages from new Players that they only lost because my gear score was 10x higher than theirs. Explaining to them that the gear score does nothing fell on deaf ears.

Just my personal 2 Cents ;)

Illyrian_King
12-17-2018, 06:16 PM
Just get rid of perks and donīt come back with stats please. Make gear cosmetic only, no need for gearscore outside of arcade (which needs itīs own rework). Just look at other games and how much they earn with cosmetic stuff. Players are fine paying tons of money for cosmetics. Or grind days for them.

In a game like this there should never be an advantage for a veteran player outside of having more experience. Of course perks are not that much of an advantage but new players donīt know that, all they see is me with 3 active perks against them with maybe 1 active perk. They lose they blame it on the fact I had better gear and blame For Honor for being a game that is unfair to new players. Hell I even got Messages from new Players that they only lost because my gear score was 10x higher than theirs. Explaining to them that the gear score does nothing fell on deaf ears.

Just my personal 2 Cents ;)

This is a thing of different opinions ...
I personally hate it, not to have anything to play for that makes me stronger by default or at least gives me variety to play with. Usually I don't play matches just for the match's sake. I want to become "stronger". Just cosmetics isn't doing it for me and Perks ... well ... hardly noticable.

In my point 4) of my first post, I proposed how to make gear more available to everyone. That's to satisfy both audiences (eventhough this sentence almost became a meme). So it would not take much to get on a good point, but with Stats AND Perks you would have a good variety of possible set-ups you could run.

It also depends to which games you refere:
Overwatch has a huge population and runs only with cosmetics.
WoW has the possibly biggest playerbase of all games and is purely driven by gear grind.

For Honor is none of them and so it should go it's own way, as the first product of it's kind. People like me want to grind, but grind should not be hard or frustrating (Lootboxes replace with Crafting Menu) so casual players could complain.
My modell covers exactly that.