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Knight_Raime
12-15-2018, 11:14 AM
Will be a short and sweet post. Devs said they're still actively looking at her and don't consider her rework to be "finished." I understand that she's not as high of a priority right now given the fact that in most levels of play she's doing just fine. These changes are to hopefully give her that extra umph she needs to be more of a contender for high tier play. I will note that I did try to keep lower tiers of players in mind here. But some of these things will have a slight negative impact on their experience. I will list all changes first and then explain why after:

~Side light finishers have much better recovery.
~Side heavy finishers have much better tracking.
~Valk's second hit in zone is now 700ms.
~Shield crush can now happen after a heavy lands. This includes if it is blocked.
~Shield tackle can now be soft feinted out of with her side dash attacks.
~Shield tackle can now knock people down if they're OOS.
~Shield tackle now blocks attacks from the front only when charging.
~Sweep has better recovery to prevent OOS players from getting a free GB.
~Dash attacks gain a variable input window comparable to Orochi's side lights.
~neutral heavy damage bump from 24 to 25.
~parry counter added in via her old headbutt. Unchargable. Good stamina damage. can chain a light or heavy off of it. both are chain starters. light is confirmed.


Explanations:

I decided to make changes to her side light/heavy finishers for a specific reason. These attacks are fairly easy to see coming. Her side light finishers she uses her shield. and her side heavy finishers are wide hits. Not to mention neither are fast. the lights being 500ms and the heavies being 800ms. Because it's easy to see these attacks coming it's fairly easy to block/parry them. Not only this but both moves (like a lot of her moves in her kit) have absolutely awful recovery. Meaning a good player will simply dodge these to gain a strong punish. Valk has no way to retaliate against that. As feint into GB on her side heavy is reactable on GBing her since the heavy has more than 400ms of GB recovery for being an 800ms attack. And all the cool utility her side lights have go under used. Because her choice is either to let it fly and be punished. or soft feint back into tackle. Which means her finishers are rarely used.

Shield tackle as is is a strong defensive tool. But lost all of it's capability even with this defense for team fights. Which was something old valk players really appreciated. These changes sort of bring back her old team fight strengths. But in a more measured approach as to avoid being super strong offensively and defensively. Giving her shield crush a little more play seems to only make sense. She's a mix up intensive hero. And her crush being the way it is currently promotes a healthy mind game for top play. But due to it's extremely limited way of accessing it it kind of makes her kit feel jank in terms of mix up potential. allowing her to activate shield tackle after a landed or blocked heavy should make this mind game more accessible and thus interesting. In lower tier play this shouldn't change things too much anyway as it's already landing often.

Bumping her opener damage and fixing her sweeps recovery seem like no brainer changes. Her sweep became more predictable with her rework. It was semi compensated for this with a higher damaging punish if it lands. However you can't realistically attempt to use this move at all in higher play as it's very easy to read and GB. At least with the change to the recovery I propose she can POTENTIALLY use this as a threatening option for her OOS play.

Finally the change to her input timing on her dash attacks is a personal change i've wanted since I started playing her. she has such interesting kit options now due to the fix/buff to her shoulder pin. And those changes go widely under used because the dash attacks were fixed to a 300ms input after dash. Which makes them basically non usable as an ability to punish things. Which is bad considering she's an assasin hybrid. And assassins are encouraged to punish committed to attacks with their dodge attacks. This change means she'll now be able to properly do so. Along with her interesting mix up of GB off of a dodge into or shoulder pin into mix up.

EDIT:

Her side heavy finishers will have much better tracking but not undodgable. Side lights will get reduced recovery on whiff instead of becoming undodgable. Also re add her uncharged headbutt back into her kit via parry counter. Does fair amount of stamina damage. can chain light or heavy off of it. Light is confirmed and both light and heavy are chain starters.

Herbstlicht
12-15-2018, 04:36 PM
Uuwaah. I mean good changes. But she is very strong as of right now. Her damage decent her chain swift as is and dodging, specially in teamfights, is risky as it is already. So ... while these changes might be nice for duels on top level plays, I see them as overpowering in everything up to diamond on console, especially in teamgames.
So .. yeah, making her more fun to play might be very smart. More defensive options and a delayable dodgeattack would be nice too - though again very strong in a more casual environment.
And ah ... when i talk about a more casual environment, I actually mean all those longer time for honor players that can dodge, parry and deflect many standart attacks - like a big part of valks moveset. But - at least on console - a valk that does utilize her mixups smartly is very strong and can beat those players too, be it duel or teamgames. I do not know what nowadays data is tellling, but I honestly do believe she belongs to the top 10 right now.

Siegfried-Z
12-15-2018, 06:50 PM
I was on the point to post some Valk changes suggestion too ! Nice To see it.

I overall like these proposal.

I would recommend a bigger buff on her heavy dmg. Valk has currently the weakiest light parry punish of the game with 24dmg. She should get the chained heavy dmg value on that which je arround 33 if i remember well.
On neutral(GB), 24 To 25 dmg is fine .

I strongly agree her shield tackle should bring back some of her old kit just as beiing able to go out of it with dash and have some full block property even once released.

Thèse 2 things are the most important of your few proposal in my opinion.

Others like side lights and heavy finishers becoming undodgable are Nice too but less important.

Her recovery on a sweep have To be improved for sure no question about it.

What i would like to see in Her kit is the return of her headbutt.
As a parry option follow up just as WL for example.
Lets take a heavy parry example . Currently your best follow up us the 17dmg front dash attack .
But if you see the guy is already low in terms of stam then you can use the headbutt plus a normal light of 13dmg which puts oos.
Or on a GB, i don't remember how many times i've got some max punish thanks to her headbutt on a GB. If you put the guy oos on a GB he fall down and you get the max punish.

To sum it up.. except her heavy dmg on a light parry, i just would like Her shield tackle To be buff back as he is now broken and the headbutt To come back as he has completly been remooved.

I had already 13 reps on Valk before her rework and what i would love is what most of old valk players would want : shield tackle and headbutt :)

Knight_Raime
12-16-2018, 01:59 PM
Uuwaah. I mean good changes. But she is very strong as of right now. Her damage decent her chain swift as is and dodging, specially in teamfights, is risky as it is already. So ... while these changes might be nice for duels on top level plays, I see them as overpowering in everything up to diamond on console, especially in teamgames.
So .. yeah, making her more fun to play might be very smart. More defensive options and a delayable dodgeattack would be nice too - though again very strong in a more casual environment.
And ah ... when i talk about a more casual environment, I actually mean all those longer time for honor players that can dodge, parry and deflect many standart attacks - like a big part of valks moveset. But - at least on console - a valk that does utilize her mixups smartly is very strong and can beat those players too, be it duel or teamgames. I do not know what nowadays data is tellling, but I honestly do believe she belongs to the top 10 right now.

I'd have to disagree on these changes making her more OP outside maybe the undodgable properties on the side light/heavy finishers. Though I think the side heavy should have better tracking at the least. Maybe undodgable for side light finishers. If not at least reduce their recovery some so the dodge timing on getting a GB has to be tight.

Knight_Raime
12-16-2018, 02:02 PM
I was on the point to post some Valk changes suggestion too ! Nice To see it.

I overall like these proposal.

I would recommend a bigger buff on her heavy dmg. Valk has currently the weakiest light parry punish of the game with 24dmg. She should get the chained heavy dmg value on that which je arround 33 if i remember well.
On neutral(GB), 24 To 25 dmg is fine .

I strongly agree her shield tackle should bring back some of her old kit just as beiing able to go out of it with dash and have some full block property even once released.

Thèse 2 things are the most important of your few proposal in my opinion.

Others like side lights and heavy finishers becoming undodgable are Nice too but less important.

Her recovery on a sweep have To be improved for sure no question about it.

What i would like to see in Her kit is the return of her headbutt.
As a parry option follow up just as WL for example.
Lets take a heavy parry example . Currently your best follow up us the 17dmg front dash attack .
But if you see the guy is already low in terms of stam then you can use the headbutt plus a normal light of 13dmg which puts oos.
Or on a GB, i don't remember how many times i've got some max punish thanks to her headbutt on a GB. If you put the guy oos on a GB he fall down and you get the max punish.

To sum it up.. except her heavy dmg on a light parry, i just would like Her shield tackle To be buff back as he is now broken and the headbutt To come back as he has completly been remooved.

I had already 13 reps on Valk before her rework and what i would love is what most of old valk players would want : shield tackle and headbutt :)


I think she doesn't need a damage bump beyond her opening heavy to 25. Her combo potential combined with her tools encourages you to stay in combos as long as possible. I feel like bumping her damage too high in any one area would incentivise to not go into combos. Which was a problem zerk had till they redid his numbers. I like the suggestion of adding a parry counter with her headbutt. i'll add that in!

Siegfried-Z
12-16-2018, 07:21 PM
I think she doesn't need a damage bump beyond her opening heavy to 25. Her combo potential combined with her tools encourages you to stay in combos as long as possible. I feel like bumping her damage too high in any one area would incentivise to not go into combos. Which was a problem zerk had till they redid his numbers. I like the suggestion of adding a parry counter with her headbutt. i'll add that in!

I would agree if she would have a light parry follow up kind of average but Valk get only a 24dmg heavy from a light parry which is even under many heavy parry of others char.

Remember that i talk only about her heavy dmg after a light parry.
I dont want her chained heavy to be buff and i am ok with her 25dmg on neutral because of her dynamic kit.
Anyway that's why Her overall dmg are slighly under average but i am fine with it.

Just, 24dmg on a light parry is very weak. Too weak in my opinion and didn't reward enough a light parry. She should get 33dmg of it like average.
And as it would only be a bump on her parry follow up it would not reduce her dynamic fighting style ;)

Glad if the headbutt parry option suggestion can help anyway !

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
12-17-2018, 04:07 AM
I think her kit is more useless now in dominion group fights and her multiple infinite chain as well as her previous shield tackle kit was just fine before. All she needed was a damage buff...but I digress.

Siegfried-Z
12-17-2018, 02:30 PM
I think her kit is more useless now in dominion group fights and her multiple infinite chain as well as her previous shield tackle kit was just fine before. All she needed was a damage buff...but I digress.

Valk is not a top dog in 4v4 because she does too small dmg overall appart of her sweep, because she feed a lot of revenge and because she is not good at ganking (worst maybe with the ally sweep).

But she is still average in 4v4 because she is good at anti gank.

And, she is now very strong in duel till Platinium level and correct above.

Stats shows it with a 55% win ratio in duel last season.

The fact is that she was more a 4v4 Char before and she is now more a duelist. But still viable in 4v4.

Overall, we can like it or not and i don't like evrything they have done in Her rework myself but we have to agree her efficiency have been improved.