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View Full Version : Shaolin seems a bit op 1v1



Zombie.Face
12-05-2018, 11:17 AM
i think the shaolin is just too hard to deal with 1v1. his attacks are hard to distinguish between lights and heavies and he does way too much. his damage on his triple lights are pretty insane too. i think he might need a nerf there ubi. he's ridiculous and way op.

Herbstlicht
12-05-2018, 01:32 PM
Hmm, I disagree. How much did you play Shaolin yourself? I got 13 reps in him after I somewhat abandoned him, but I guess I got a good feel about his strength and weaknesses (on console).
What I would change? His unblockable damage. Its relatively high and gives a character that can already contribute with kick and knockdown with a higher damage unblockable in teamfights. What makes him, combined with his feats, a real potent pick in Breach and Dominion.
When it comes to reactability, I think monk is designed around being hard to react to. He wants people to panick. However, though his triple lights might be a bit strong, they are "only" 500ms light attacks. Parry one and you get a heavy. Block it and nothing happens. His dodge attack actually is so bad, that you can block it after he dodges some lights. Or deflect it. Just immediately input buffer the dodge after the attack.
And let me get to a few matchups:
Shaolin vs Berserker:
Shaolin is disadvantaged, Berserker is going to get carried through this fight due to hyperarmor and higher damage.
Shaolin vs Kensei:
Shaloin is disadvantaged once again because Kensei's punishes will really hurt a light spamming Monk, besides Kenseis mixups are very tricky to deal with when you want to rely on your dodge attack. You can use qi stance into superior block, but have fun predicting light or heavy feints. I guess I needn't mention that Kensei lights deal a ton of damage too, add to this the higher health pool.
Shaolin vs ... Cent!
Well, actually Shaolin has the better cards here. But if you only spam your lights, you loose to any decent cent. He just leaves guard top and only needs to parry 2 or 3 side lights and the game is over for you.

So in the end: Shaolin has a varied kit and his teleport is ... weird. But he is not op from a duel perspective. But he may indeed be on the stronger side of assassins in team fights. But well, he is a hybrid anyway, so .. I dunno,

What I would change so, is his difficulty rating, Though he might be hard to master, he is easy to use. Want to rule dominion and breach? Get your teleport kick. Play with your mates. Use unblockable often. And this might be something else why he is felt to be rather strong. In teamfights he has a lot of tools that can be used easily and with high efficiency. He plays incredibly well with anyone who got unblockables or any kind of pushes/kicks.

Anyway, my balance view for WuLin from worst to best:
Worst: JJ - too strong in team games
2nd worst: Nuxia - okish on console but gets hardy used by anyone and one can clearly see why. She is relatively weak.
"okish": Shaolin. I think an almost perfect duelist with a slight advantage on the "teamplayer" aspect. He can be incredibly strong when communicating and teamplaying with others. But the only thing that might be too strong, could be his rather easy accessible unblockable top heavy. But I am not sure about this
Best: Tiandi. Not saying Tiandi is perfect, he actually is spammy. But I genuinely do think that he is very, very well balanced. So much that it is close to perfection. However, thats a little bit sad, because I personally would want his kit to be more varied and his stupid long dodge heavy to be more varied / better invulnerability frames / faster whatever. Just .. better as its now. And the reason I think he is so nicely balanced, is that he has
#1 a 600ms punch from neutral into low guaranteed damage
#2 500 ms lights from every direction into low guaranteed damage
#3 a few easy accessible mixups with relatively low potential damage when you want to play it safe
This "low guaranteed" damage on moves that can be dealt with means if he gets countered, he gets punished harder then he dishes out. But his risk isn't high, so it seems this pans out nicely.

On Shaolin however - back to our original topic - only his stuff from neutral is relatively safe. Because its less telegraphed then Tiandi. But if you want to do more with Shaolin then stupid light spam, you move into the "unsafe zone" where punishes might get severe. And if you really, really struggly against light spamming ones .. ahh, just play Kensei and dodge when you see any indicator flickering while still guarding top >_<