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ROXunreal
03-14-2009, 07:26 AM
I've been playing this game online (on weekends only) for 3-4 weeks now, and after seeing that I completely suck at turn and burn fighting and that it usually leads to death anyway since some other guy gets on my tail, I decided BnZ is the way to go. Get in, kill, get out.

Now, my aircraft of choice for the purpose is the FW-190. It's a sexy well armed beast with plenty of ammo for my poor shooting skills, and my favorite WW2 plane. I know it's difficult to fly and master, but I'm ready for some pain.

Now, the way I've been doing it is getting altitude slowly circling towards enemy airspace (and what's weird is that I don't find 10-15 minutes of gaining altitude boring at all, it's like a ritual!) and then going in at 750kmh for the kill, just as the plane starts mildly shaking from the speed. So far I have been rather successful with bombers (well, hitting them at least, most shots hit, but they usually don't fall out of the sky in the first pass) but I can't seem to get any fighter. Since I play on an open cockpit server for now (I'll switch to more realistic settings when I devise a convenient way to look around, mini joystick sucks and TrackIR is too expensive for now), they always see me coming from behind and evade my dive path.

I guess what I'm asking is how to make the best out of a dive and subsequent gaining of previous altitude with the 190? At what angle should I dive, what throttle, how do I keep myself from going too fast, prop pitch settings, and at what angle do I gain altitude again after diving? And any other FW-190 tips (already read some stuff on m4t, but I want more).

Also information wise, what are some other good BnZ craft except the P-47?

ROXunreal
03-14-2009, 07:26 AM
I've been playing this game online (on weekends only) for 3-4 weeks now, and after seeing that I completely suck at turn and burn fighting and that it usually leads to death anyway since some other guy gets on my tail, I decided BnZ is the way to go. Get in, kill, get out.

Now, my aircraft of choice for the purpose is the FW-190. It's a sexy well armed beast with plenty of ammo for my poor shooting skills, and my favorite WW2 plane. I know it's difficult to fly and master, but I'm ready for some pain.

Now, the way I've been doing it is getting altitude slowly circling towards enemy airspace (and what's weird is that I don't find 10-15 minutes of gaining altitude boring at all, it's like a ritual!) and then going in at 750kmh for the kill, just as the plane starts mildly shaking from the speed. So far I have been rather successful with bombers (well, hitting them at least, most shots hit, but they usually don't fall out of the sky in the first pass) but I can't seem to get any fighter. Since I play on an open cockpit server for now (I'll switch to more realistic settings when I devise a convenient way to look around, mini joystick sucks and TrackIR is too expensive for now), they always see me coming from behind and evade my dive path.

I guess what I'm asking is how to make the best out of a dive and subsequent gaining of previous altitude with the 190? At what angle should I dive, what throttle, how do I keep myself from going too fast, prop pitch settings, and at what angle do I gain altitude again after diving? And any other FW-190 tips (already read some stuff on m4t, but I want more).

Also information wise, what are some other good BnZ craft except the P-47?

general_kalle
03-14-2009, 07:32 AM
zoom and booming on fighters is a tricky affair one external view servers since they usually spot you and evade... its alot more difficult to spot the guy diving at you from six high when have cocpit only.

if im diving in on an enememy fighter and i see that he has spotted me and started evasion i usually pull up again, watch him bleed of his energy after doing violent evasive aktion, then i dive in again. i loose a little more energy that i would have had i continued the dive but he's alot easier to hit when he's low on energy. his second evasive maneuever is gonna be alot weaker than the first one with his lower energy state.

so you sacrifice a little energy for a kill, you will still have plenty to climb up again but not as high as you started out from.

Xiolablu3
03-14-2009, 08:02 AM
Hawker Tempest is a very good B&Zer.

DKoor
03-14-2009, 08:59 AM
What you need is more practice.
QMB (quick mission builder) will serve you well...

Here is two BnZ tracks for you:
classic shootout mix vs four FWs on ace level that involves bnz as primary tactic of choice:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/3e9e.../DKoor51D-4x190A-408 (http://www.esnips.com/doc/3e9e1ca5-28cc-45ea-8384-64415e3a7ace/DKoor51D-4x190A-408)

classic bnz vs four FW jabos:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/0de7...48839/Power-of-50cal (http://www.esnips.com/doc/0de7e3f5-b790-44ad-bb5a-e9b6dc648839/Power-of-50cal)

You can bnz in many many aircraft in this game, those that do energy retention part well, excel in it.

jamesblonde1979
03-14-2009, 09:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ROXunreal:

I can't seem to get any fighter. Since I play on an open cockpit server for now (I'll switch to more realistic settings when I devise a convenient way to look around, mini joystick sucks and TrackIR is too expensive for now), they always see me coming from behind and evade my dive path.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Time your attacks and pick bandits that are going to find it difficult to manoeuver out of your way. Bandits with a low E state (near to stalling) that are committed to a particular manouever or aircraft that are in a high speed dive.

These techniques make anticipation of your targets flight path easier and when you learn to recognise a good target you will start getting hits.

ROXunreal
03-14-2009, 09:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
What you need is more practice.
QMB (quick mission builder) will serve you well...

Here is two BnZ tracks for you:
classic shootout mix vs four FWs on ace level that involves bnz as primary tactic of choice:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/3e9e.../DKoor51D-4x190A-408 (http://www.esnips.com/doc/3e9e1ca5-28cc-45ea-8384-64415e3a7ace/DKoor51D-4x190A-408)

classic bnz vs four FW jabos:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/0de7...48839/Power-of-50cal (http://www.esnips.com/doc/0de7e3f5-b790-44ad-bb5a-e9b6dc648839/Power-of-50cal)

You can bnz in many many aircraft in this game, those that do energy retention part well, excel in it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do I import those tracks in the game?

DKoor
03-14-2009, 09:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ROXunreal:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
What you need is more practice.
QMB (quick mission builder) will serve you well...

Here is two BnZ tracks for you:
classic shootout mix vs four FWs on ace level that involves bnz as primary tactic of choice:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/3e9e.../DKoor51D-4x190A-408 (http://www.esnips.com/doc/3e9e1ca5-28cc-45ea-8384-64415e3a7ace/DKoor51D-4x190A-408)

classic bnz vs four FW jabos:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/0de7...48839/Power-of-50cal (http://www.esnips.com/doc/0de7e3f5-b790-44ad-bb5a-e9b6dc648839/Power-of-50cal)

You can bnz in many many aircraft in this game, those that do energy retention part well, excel in it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do I import those tracks in the game? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Find the location where you installed the game on hard disk (mine is E:\IL-2 Sturmovik 1946), and put the tracks into your Records folder.

megalopsuche
03-14-2009, 10:36 AM
I'm surprised no one has said this yet:

Learn to TnB first and leave the FW190 in the hangar until you've learned the basic ACM skill set. There are a number of reasons for this:

1) Gunnery practice. To learn to shoot well, you'll need to saddle up on a bandit and keep hammering away until he goes down. Energy tactics require that you are an expert marksmen and can bring down a bandit with only a split-second firing window.

2) Flying ability. You are not going to improve by only using hit and run tactics. A lot of the pilots who fly the traditional BnZ rides can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag if you can force the engagement. It's vital that you learn to fight and kill the enemy up close. I have killed Spits that tried to bounce me in a 190, when you'd think the 190 would be easy meat. The only way I could do that is from the knowledge and experience I have fighting up close and persevering in situations where the "smart" thing would be to run away.

3) You will learn the skill set for effective BnZ tactics. As you improve at dogfighting, you'll learn how to effectively use an energy advantage to down your opponent. TnB and BnZ are almost misnomers, the difference between the two styles is one of degree, not category.

Remember, if you get shot down, you get a brand new plane. Sure, it hurts the ego a bit, but you've got to put the ego away in order to learn from your mistakes. Sim pilots who are new to online combat get shot down a lot. We all go through it; it's a normal part of the learning process. For now, unless you flying some kind of mission/scenario, don't worry about getting shot down. Fight it out every time and you will improve quickly.

ytareh
03-14-2009, 10:49 AM
Only 750!!!???Give that baby 850!!!190D( will do nearer 950 (and of course P47 does over 1000)

Lt_Letum
03-14-2009, 02:00 PM
Can you give us a detailed description of how you attack a fighter?

ROXunreal
03-14-2009, 07:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jamesblonde1979:

Time your attacks and pick bandits that are going to find it difficult to manoeuver out of your way. Bandits with a low E state (near to stalling) that are committed to a particular manouever or aircraft that are in a high speed dive.

These techniques make anticipation of your targets flight path easier and when you learn to recognise a good target you will start getting hits. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I discovered this just today, nothing like coming down on an enemy who is in the middle of a hammerhead http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ytareh:
Only 750!!!???Give that baby 850!!!190D( will do nearer 950 (and of course P47 does over 1000) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I may not have recalled my numbers correctly, but I take her to speeds at which she's stable. Maybe it was 750 in a 109, don't remember.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lt_Letum:
Can you give us a detailed description of how you attack a fighter? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um, can't get any more detailed than: find enemy, pull up until I lose E, dive (usually from behind, no less than 45° angle), drop throttle enough to keep me from going too fast, make my shot and pull up, throttle, WEP and anything else that can make me go fast to regain altitude. Thing is, they usually evade me.

And about learning TnB, I did score some kills that way too, but again, my issues are with view. Even on open cockpit the arrows tell me in what direction he is, but not WHERE he is.

megalopsuche
03-14-2009, 07:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ROXunreal:
And about learning TnB, I did score some kills that way too, but again, my issues are with view. Even on open cockpit the arrows tell me in what direction he is, but not WHERE he is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Knowing the bandit's location is an important skill, and comes on its own with trial and error...practice, practice, practice. There's no magic formula for building SA, but once you have it you will not lose sight of a bandit even if you're playing with cockpits on and no external views.

Oh, and attacking aircraft that are already engaged is a great way to score easy kills, but doesn't teach you much. Look for enemy aircraft that are not engaged if you want to improve.

LovroSL
03-15-2009, 10:40 AM
another thing with SA

if you loose sight od your opponet for more than 10s, only look for it on your six, because 90% of he time thats where he will be. Scaning the whole sky will take too long and he will nail you before you find him.

ROXunreal
03-15-2009, 12:56 PM
Just tried on a closed cockpit server, I found it outright impossible to spot a plane from above. I stalked one mustang which I managed to spot with external view after looking at him for a good 10 minutes and trying to pinpoint his location against map landmarks, then went in for the dive but the moment I switched to cockpit I completely lost him and zoomed past him without even knowing where he was.
He went after me and another 10 minutes of gaining altitude to evade him ensured. He could barely keep up with me on 7k meters, then I dived and led him to my buddies low who took care of him.

Damn I love this game. I think in a year or two I'll look down on this as the most exciting period of playing IL-2, everything is challenging and the few victories I get each day are very rewarding.

Also a side question, why am I "out of ammo" yet the FW190 ammo counters are unchanged? And my guns were not damaged.

megalopsuche
03-15-2009, 02:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ROXunreal:
He went after me and another 10 minutes of gaining altitude to evade him ensured. He could barely keep up with me on 7k meters, then I dived and led him to my buddies low who took care of him.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why didn't you try to fight him? What did you gain by leading him to a gang-bang? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Of all aircraft, the P-51 is hardly one you should be scared to mix it up with 1vs1.

ytareh
03-15-2009, 04:12 PM
My post deleted-Wrong forum please ignore!

Lt_Letum
03-15-2009, 05:21 PM
Try making the dive steeper.
If you are right above your opponent then there is not turn he can make that you can't follow with your crosshairs (but not necessarily your plane).

If that doesn't work, look for planes that are distracted by your team mates.

ROXunreal
03-15-2009, 05:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
Why didn't you try to fight him? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because he was on my 6, 600 meters away and as far as I know pretty much anything turns better than an FW190.

Anyway, today was a very successful day. Got lots of bombers and many fighters, also learned optimal prop pitch settings for the Anton and got it flying way better than before. I guess in the end it all does come down to practice.

norton1974
03-15-2009, 05:53 PM
I too have just started flying online at spitsvs109s and have flown about 20 hrs is the last 3 weeks.
I have tried bnz in the 109 and TnB also, i am not good at either at this point but i am going to stick with it for awhile. I have learned that SA is not my problem but rather manuevering is where i suck, if someone is on my tail they dont seem to ever leave.
I have been shot down at least 25 times and have maybe 3 kills, not to mention how many times i have limped back to base wiht holes in my wings.

Stiletto-
03-15-2009, 06:55 PM
Yeah I wouldn't try mixing it up with a Mustang, once your energy advantage runs out in the 190 it's time to leave town.

VW-IceFire
03-15-2009, 07:54 PM
Find a swirling mess of a dogfight and pick off fighters that are too target fixated to notice anything else. Thats how I do my BNZ most of the time.

The key thing is the pull out. Don't get overexcited and pull out too hard. Make it a gentle pull out with a bit of roll and angle so you're not too predictable and you have an angle to turn back onto the target from.

But effective shooting is key...if you want to learn that try flying any Yak that isn't the Yak-3P for a while. That plane is sort of a snipers choice. Do alright in that and other types seem easy.

megalopsuche
03-16-2009, 01:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ROXunreal:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
Why didn't you try to fight him? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because he was on my 6, 600 meters away and as far as I know pretty much anything turns better than an FW190.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a lot more to ACM than making flat turns. Beating better turning aircraft from a position of disadvantage can be done in multiple ways, but you'll never figure it out unless you try.

If I were in that situation, first and foremost, I would be thinking overshoot. Since the 190 rolls better than the P-51, some kind of 3-dimensional scissors variation is required. First, I would enter a shallow dive to build up speed (I want my pursuer to have extra speed), and start a gradual turn looking back at the bandit to watch him follow. Then I reverse direction, still watching him, but on the third turn I'm chopping the throttle and dumping a notch or two of flaps as soon as I can. During this process, I'm weaving erratically left, right, up, down, etc., using lots of rudder to make myself a tough target. Keeping visual contact with the bandit is necessary, because as soon as he starts to overshoot you have to throttle up again. With the right timing you're suddenly on his 6 and he's saying "wtf? How did he do that?" You can't count on this type of move to work on a very good stick, but in my experience the vast majority of opponents that you encounter on the various servers can't handle it. Try it.

Suppose you manage to throw him off, but don't shoot him down and he's still a threat. Well, besides roll rate, the 190 is better in the vertical, so you can use vertical maneuvers to cut inside a P-51's flat turn. Remember, he usually has to place a sustained burst on you to bring you down, but you only require a snapshot. Hence, the expert marksman requirement for flying the 190, again, which is why it's a lousy choice for a new pilot.

What sort of gear do you have? e.g. stick, pedals, throttle, etc.

ROXunreal
03-16-2009, 07:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
If I were in that situation...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, that never came to mind. I was going along the lines of trying to gain altitude since I read that the Mustang performs worse than the 190 higher than 6000 meters, so I thought I would gain some distance and that he would break off, thereby I would turn and follow maintaining my altitude and then later when I catch up I would make another pass. Thing is, he did catch up eventually :/

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Hence, the expert marksman requirement for flying the 190, again, which is why it's a lousy choice for a new pilot.

What sort of gear do you have? e.g. stick, pedals, throttle, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I find that I don't really such in shooting as I thought I did (open cockpit at least). On almost every dive I hit the enemy at least once, and if they don't move they don't try to evade they end up severely damaged or shot down.

I have the Saitek Aviator, finally got the hang of it and it suits me well. I don't plan on getting pedals in the near future unless I have money to burn. Don't have space under my table for them anyway.

And another question: where the hell should I shoot a B-29? I can never bring this thing down in 2-3 passes, never. And then its inhuman gunners kill me or bust my engine.

DKoor
03-16-2009, 08:22 AM
Generally speaking P-51D will excel in most situations over FW-190A, while that is not the case with FW-190D.
Also keep in mind that most American fighters operate best on high altitudes, so if you are on opposite side you surely don't want to engage them there on equal terms in FW-190A or Bf-109G.

megalopsuche
03-16-2009, 09:47 AM
Where did you read that the 190 outperforms the P-51 above 6000m? And which model 190? As dkoor points out, the 190A series is better at low-medium altitudes. While the 190D-9 is an improvement at higher altitudes over the Anton, it's best performance against the P-51D should still be at less than 6000m. The real high altitude monsters of the Luftwaffe are the Ta-152H, and to a lesser extent, the 109K-4.

As for rudder pedals, save your pennies. At the very least, consider a joystick with a third axis, i.e. "twist stick." You don't know what you're missing until you have them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Good luck!

ROXunreal
03-16-2009, 03:18 PM
Aviator is a twist stick, and I've learned to use rudder for corrections against evading aircraft.

Yea I may have mixed something up about the altitude then.

Stiletto-
03-16-2009, 09:13 PM
Aviator is a good stick, I would definately consider a TrackIR before actual rudder pedals.

MOH.Nimrod
03-17-2009, 03:21 AM
Hi and welcome to the game, ROXunreal.

There has been dozens of postings and articles on the Boom and Zoom tactics as well as on how to fly the Fw-190. Let me just say that you seem to have the patience and mindset for becoming a really good Il-2 gamer. Most people excel in the angles fight and get plenty of kills. However, they do get shot down a lot too. Those who persue the “Boom and Zoom” way will generally get a better kill/death ratio, based on my opinion after playing this game for 7 years.

Some hands on pointers (I’ll have to stop myself from elaborating ;-)

1) SETTING UP THE ATTACK: Get altitude in an airspace in a reasonably safe location. Check the “target altitude” i.e. where most enemy aircraft are by using the enemy external view. You should have an altitude advantage of 2000 to 4000 meters compared to them.
2) CHOOSE YOUR TARGET: Try to locate areas where the enemy normally flies. Often that is to and from their main airbase and in the “furball” area, normally found between the two largest bases (your base and theirs). I try to avoid attacking planes that are engaged in combat, because once you get involved in that fight there will be others who have the same idea, making you their target. Nail them after take-off. Funnily enough that is when many are slack with checking their six. Returners are more vigilant.
3) DIVE ON TARGET: Most targets I encounter are on an opposite direction, so I normally let them pass my 9-3 line and then I start a very wide turn/dive towards them. The dive/turn should place you behind him, or between his 5-7 o’clock vector. Try to dive UNDER him so that the final approach is at his 6 and from beneath. It makes it more difficult for him to spot you then. Watch your speed, throttle down/up accordingly. It is imperative that you know the failure speed for each aircraft. For the 190-A models, don’t go above 800 kph. Fast is good, though, so try to approach him as fast as your plane permits.
4) HIGH SPEED GUNNERY: This differs from the normal turn fighting deflection shooting. Here, you only get one shot, and that is a “micro burst”. Your aim must be true. With a very fast approach speed, you should align your sight seadily the last seconds and at the right moment fire a 1 second burst. If you start firing at a long distance, say, 200-300 meters, you might get a second chance if you miss by violently yanking the stick to bring your guns on the target. However, it is risky as you will collide about 25% of your attacks. It is better to fire one short burst when you are 150-100 meters away. With the Fw190’s 6 guns you will cripple/kill the opponent 9 times out of 10. I have my inner guns (Marked as machine guns in the convergance menue) set to 250 meters and the outer guns at 200. However, I recommend that you set your convergance to 300-500 meters to achieve a better hit probability. This is a controversal topic, so experiment a lot. Make training tracks and watch when you normally open fire and when the stream of bullets converge. Adjust accordingly. Your bullet’s flight path is different from when you fire at a lower speed, so practice makes perfect.
5) DISENGAGE: After the first “pass”, flash past your victim and begin a shallow climb. As your speed drops off slightly, climb steeper (about 45 degrees, but less than 90). Roll slightly to observe the target. If you hit him good on your first pass (i.e. massive structural damage, fire, black smoke etc) there is no need to repeat the attack. Simply continue your climb and CHECK SIX, others might have seen you. Go defensive immediately, but don’t burn energy by violent maneuvering. If you missed the target or you did not observe any critical damge, quickly decide on wether you should attack again or break off. This depends on wether you are alone with the victim or if there are bandits around. THIS DECISION IS WHAT SEPARATES THE EXPERT FROM THE NOVICE. It is not all about gunnery and flight skills. If you have decided to attack again, simply pitch back and dive on him again. This time you will approach him from a steeper angle and the bandit will most likely be performing some kind of defensive move. With the Fw-190 you will have energy for 2 more attacks before you are almost co-energy with your target. If you haven’t killed him by then, disengage while you have the advantage. The true experts fights on his own terms, or not at all.


Variants: Occasionally you will attack an opponent who has spotted you diving on him. You can often tell when the target is anticipating your attack by watching his movments: banking wings and tail twisting means he is checking his six. That means that he has spotted you and is preparing a defensive maneuver. The novice target often reveals his intentions by slightly banking and turning prematurely, often to the left. This means that he soon will perform a hard breaking turn. The sooner he starts, the better for you. When he starts his turn, you turn too, but only a short vector change. You want to set up the shot so he comes in about 90 degrees off to your right side (if he turned left initially). Fire and let him fly in to the bullets. It is very, very difficult to match the turn by copying his movments because his aircraft will be hidden under your nose, so don’t try to turn with him.

Skilled pilots that are being bounced wait till the verly last second and performs a sudden, energy conserving move. If they split-s, (inverts the plane and dive down) DON’T follow. With your higher speed you will overshoot, or worse loose track of your speed and your plane will rip apart. This is a “buck fever”moment and it is easy to loose control over your speed. Let him go and take pleasure in the fact that you probably scared him stiff and you forced him down the deck. Remember that to a skilled pilot it is much more intimidating with a bouncer who suddenly appears, and then dissapears. He will know that you are out there somewhere, watching, with your energy conserved. If your blow most of your energy in an aggressive maneuvering contest, you are playing his game. Veteran pilots fear loosing visual contact of an enemy much more than the actual combat.

Finally, the key words are: SURPRISE, ENERGY ADVANTAGE, ANGLES ADVANTAGE. If you have two out of three of them, you will kill your opponent. Surprise is better than energy advantage. Energy advantage is better than angles advantage. You must achieve this BEFORE you initiate the fighting - “The battle is won before it begins”.

Cheers,
Nimrod

doogerie
03-18-2009, 02:53 PM
ofcourse it bites when you get shot up while still on the ground

M_Gunz
03-18-2009, 07:37 PM
LOL, BnZ gunnery is different from co-speed gunnery for sure!

Your closure rate effectively shortens the range, time of flight of the shots is shorter. Get in a ranging burst from
much farther than normal, 400+ meters. If it's a bit low or behind then chances are it won't be noticed but go for
spot on. The farther back, the less angle needed to correct. At really high closure and low angle, don't shoot much
less than 200 meters or you won't have time to avoid collision.

Shooting upwards or downwards, gravity no longer crosses your sight line at 90 degrees. Gravity has less effect pulling
your shots into the sight line. Aim a bit low. Steep shooting angles make gunnery harder.

Adding those two... practice, make tracks and review them until you know where the shots really go.

If your plane has different guns, MG and cannon, nose and wing, at long range they won't go the same place.

Inside and outside convergence the shots will not always cross the pipper but again this changes with closure rate
and vertical firing angle. You can have converge at 300m and hit exact aim at 400m in the right conditions.
KNOW these things when reviewing tracks or what's happening won't make real sense.

For avoiding collision and for hitting the most vulnerable places, shoot at deflection. Know that with deflection
you increase your closure rate, the higher the angle the more you do that. With deflection you already have angle
to the path of the target and less chance by far to ram plus able to make a clean exit behind the target and his guns.
My favorite deflection is from below, exiting upwards and behind, doesn't have to be much angle either.

Make a quick ranging burst at long range, so you have time to correct aim. If the burst is close then correct and
shoot, if it hits then track and shoot. If it's way off then save your ammo and start maneuvering for another pass.

Practice, practice, practice. After a while it's like throwing a ball, the sight is only an aid to aim. The big
thing is to know how long it takes a shot to cover distance and what conditions affect that just how. You end up
with a feel for where the shots go.

K_Freddie
03-19-2009, 04:30 AM
The trick with nabbing a BnZer, is to let him think that he's got you.

The sooner you spot him the better, and while he's diving lead him on a gentle turn. This effect starts to bleed his E.
As he gets closer, tighten the turn, and if he's too focused, and 'biting the hook' he'll follow.
If he's a good pilot he probably will not shoot until he's close. (I sometimes take long distance quirts to rattle them).

While turning he HAS to get his nose pointing ahead of you for a deflection shot. You'll be able to see this a mile away. The right moment is when his nose is pointing directly at you - he cannot shoot at this moment as the deflection might be too great, and you then put your plane into some rolling move.

Keep your SA and he'll lose you for a second. This should be enough.

If he good enough not to take the bait, go into a gentle dive in the opposite direction to his overshoot, building your speed up. If he tries again as most invariably will, it's the same thing again.

Repeating the above a few times will eventually make your speeds equal, and he's now 'Hook Line and Sinker', holding no advantage.

After 3 passes or so, a good BnZer will know that you're taking him low, and this conflicts with his doctrine, as he'll know that you'll have friends around, now with the same advantage over him. He might get impatient and make mistakes or wisely he'll break off the attack.

You then beat off in the opposite directiion regaining lost height.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Edt: Sorry forgot to mention - this lot only works with Full Pit, as it's a completely different way of flying compared to Open Pit.

ROXunreal
03-19-2009, 12:06 PM
Great posts people, thanks a lot. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I too like to open up in the 200-300m range, I can do more damage and have time to get clear of my target. Boy did I ram a lot one day before I realized I had to turn a bit earlier. I think I had like 7 rams just that first day http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif