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View Full Version : Am I a 'bad' online player or what???



MichaelMar
05-10-2005, 11:55 AM
It seems that I can hardly rack up kills like soooo many other players when MP. I seem to be dieing or dead more then alive(

What is the 'REAL' learning curve in this game? I only play about 5 days a week for about 1 hour each setting. I had the game for 6 months and had improved my flying somewhat along with getting a few kills, but OMG do I get owned!

What is the average time, in hours played, had most the MP aces put in?

Consider this: Most WWII pilots did not have near as many hours racked up in flying, unlike the ton of hours flying by IL2 players , and their combat skills must not of been near as good as the long time IL2 players?

I bought Shaw's 'Fighter Combat' book, took many notes and practice these techs in game...guess I need to spend a ton more hours of actually playing to compete?

THX

MichaelMar
05-10-2005, 11:55 AM
It seems that I can hardly rack up kills like soooo many other players when MP. I seem to be dieing or dead more then alive(

What is the 'REAL' learning curve in this game? I only play about 5 days a week for about 1 hour each setting. I had the game for 6 months and had improved my flying somewhat along with getting a few kills, but OMG do I get owned!

What is the average time, in hours played, had most the MP aces put in?

Consider this: Most WWII pilots did not have near as many hours racked up in flying, unlike the ton of hours flying by IL2 players , and their combat skills must not of been near as good as the long time IL2 players?

I bought Shaw's 'Fighter Combat' book, took many notes and practice these techs in game...guess I need to spend a ton more hours of actually playing to compete?

THX

Atomic_Marten
05-10-2005, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MichaelMar:
What is the average time, in hours played, had most the MP aces put in?

Consider this: Most WWII pilots did not have near as many hours racked up in flying, unlike the ton of hours flying by IL2 players , and their combat skills must not of been near as good as the long time IL2 players? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You see, if you want to be really good online, you do not have to posses godlike gaming skills, you just need a friendly formation to fly with. Be oportunistic. For example, let the bombers ahead, they will most likely be jumped by enemy fighters. When they do, bounce them from above and v³ila.. some of them will get down in flames http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

It is funny how always when you line up for a kill, after you put quite an effort to get onto your oppo's 6, some boogie appears on your 6 and shots you down?

Answer is; always fly in the group -- that way you have ensured that even if you get bounced from above you aren't a lone target http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Seriously, group flying (team) is what wins online.

But you cannot be serious in comparing real life flying under combat enviroment and playing a game? That two things have nothing to do with each other. A lot of online aces wouldn't even know how to start the engine of their favourite bird. Not to mention something else.

RAF74_Poker
05-10-2005, 12:19 PM
Team speak, Track IR, and someone to fly wing with.
3 things that will improve your game immensely !

scootertgm
05-10-2005, 02:01 PM
Even just teamspeak will make a huge difference. Being able to use coms can make the difference of breaking to dodge a shot or getting killed.

Hairball_1
05-10-2005, 05:28 PM
I think one of the biggest factors in people getting killed, is that they tend to fly too low.

On the Greater Green server, I make B-25 bombing runs with impunity at 15,000 feet.

Warbird-
05-10-2005, 06:24 PM
I have the same problem. I play the game for almost a year and I keep bad on shotting people down. Sometimes I need to play 30 minutes to kill someone.

At least I know what I'm doing wrong. It´s all about the "deflection" thing, I just do not shot at the right place in the right time.

Is there any tutorial related to this available on the web that could help us bad shooters?

Jumoschwanz
05-10-2005, 07:06 PM
Thirty minutes to shoot someone down is not bad at all.

Often I will fuel up with a full tank of gas, 100% fuel load, and go hunting on a full-difficulty type of server. In the 109 I usually fly this lasts about an hour or so depending on the throttle setting. If I can get one kill in this time and get back to base I am happier than a pig in $h1t!.
I will often go through a 50% to 100% fuel load without doing a thing but taking off and landing. But this is the way it was in WWII also right?
If I want action I can stay on the deck and fly straight to a target area and into the first furball I see. Then sure I will get a kill faster, and get shot down much faster also.

You just have to study and practice is all. I don't use track IR, fly with a wingman or use coms, but I think I do fine. Just have to practice and learn what to do and what not to do. Read and fly.

Set up what you want to do in the FMB or QMB. I will want to do something online, and I will build a replica of the online server and the planes that fly there and practice what I have to do. A lot of work, but for me it is fun, especially when it all works in the end and you get that online kill, or take out that ground target. S!

Jumoschwanz

Fennec_P
05-10-2005, 07:07 PM
I don't think there's a silver bullet when it comes to learning flight sims.

I was lucky to have played a number of jet sims and some quasi-sims (like Fighter Ace and the like) before starting in IL-2. I got reasonably proficient within a few weeks, but I played every day for hours and hours...

If theres one thing that I can suggest, it's to make a note of how the other players beat you, or even just watch other players. Then incorporate the same tactics into your own style. It's even easier to do now that you can record online tracks.

EnGaurde
05-10-2005, 09:28 PM
the single biggest thing you can do is spend an equal amount of time looking thru every view your viewhat will pan across.

if you fly with %90 of your time thru the front glass, then, well, theres your reason for dying.

if you get shot down, odds are you didnt see him sliding into position.

i rarely get nailed when ive seen someone looking like theyre homing in on me.

everyone just luuurves to throw in the casual energy fighting jargon, "E". You cant live without *pistol fingers* ...E. I always fly with my "pistol fingers and winning smile".... E. Hey there son, youre losing? Well do what i did, join the winners and *makes that little chk noise out the corner of the mouth and winks at the same time" try getting yourself some E. ( I always set the obviously "professional" or "expert" PF players references to "E", to those 70s cigarette commercials, the one with the Bonanza music and flares with the Marlboro Man image, but replace the cigareete naming with the letter E? "... Mmmmm you're in E country now" Makes for a long laugh.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif)

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

hmmm well anyway it actually does help, as a general rule. Tactical positioning of yourself to allow you to translate height into speed always works out well.

what you also need, and noone seems to mention this in the frenzy mantra chanting and trendy E name dropping is...

....situational awareness

that is, knowing just what the fark is happening around you and how its developing as far as your team and your own safety is concerned.

if you can master a method that you use to monitor the situation before you go into it, keep an eye on the players good and bad, then plan to both stay alive and make sure someone else doesnt, then you'll be a winner.

I'm not saying its easy, indeed i dont think a viewhat system can do it justice as you just cant watch everyone fast enough to update what they intend to do. This is where TrackIR shines: instant information availability with little or no overhead or clunky control systems to bog you down. Also, the communications blackout most players fly under and the oft completely disorganised manner in which online fights occur mean you can have immense difficulty trying to figure out just wtf is actually happening.

But it can be done.

Dont rush in, have a clear objective to follow, know what happening around you on the ground, on your map and in the air at all times. The time you know youve got it is when (in the worst case scenario) you say Daymn, i knew he'd catch up to me rather than Where did he come from?

E or energy fighting? Merely one of many tools in the box of the situational awareness pilot/player. Dont let anyone tell you that this is more important than gaining situational awareness.

Situational awareness will save you where energy fighting on its own will not. Learn this, look it up, i know it improved my survivability immensely as i realised i wouldnt survive what i saw evolving around me so i got t.f. out of there. Or didnt even get into it in the first place. I often lose when I go in for a shootemup session, rarely, if ever when i know whats happening around me and how it applies to what i set out to do before i pressed the Fly button.

Savvy?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Warbird-
05-10-2005, 10:12 PM
Thanks everybody for the tips.

han freak solo
05-10-2005, 10:52 PM
This poor guy only got 0.247 kills per mission.

"Eric Hartman is to this day is the top scoring ace of all time. He flew 1425 missions, engaged in 800 aerial battles, suffered 13 accidents or engine failures but he only bailed out of his aircraft once, over Romania. His skill as a fighter pilot in the destruction of 352 aircraft will probably never be equaled in air warfare again. All of this was achieved in 2 years."

http://www.flight-history.com/arch/showstory.php?contentID=18

VW-IceFire
05-10-2005, 11:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MichaelMar:
It seems that I can hardly rack up kills like soooo many other players when MP. I seem to be dieing or dead more then alive(

What is the 'REAL' learning curve in this game? I only play about 5 days a week for about 1 hour each setting. I had the game for 6 months and had improved my flying somewhat along with getting a few kills, but OMG do I get owned!

What is the average time, in hours played, had most the MP aces put in?

Consider this: Most WWII pilots did not have near as many hours racked up in flying, unlike the ton of hours flying by IL2 players , and their combat skills must not of been near as good as the long time IL2 players?

I bought Shaw's 'Fighter Combat' book, took many notes and practice these techs in game...guess I need to spend a ton more hours of actually playing to compete?

THX </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
1) Learn your plane...know it in and out
2) Fly higher than your opposition
3) Use teamwork (defensive and offensive)

These things make you a cut above the rest. Being a good pilot online doesn't mean you have twitch like reflexes but good thinking and superior positioning and team support.

LuckyBoy1
05-10-2005, 11:18 PM
You should take a look at this guide...

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/

Also see Luckyboy's Guide For Complete Users.

sy-subrc
05-11-2005, 03:03 AM
I've noticed a dramatic drop of my online skills over the last weeks.
I was far from being an ace in the past but I think I did quite well - my average k/d ratio was about 4 - 5 in Warclouds or Greatergreen, without using teamspeak (don't think my spoken english is sufficient...) or Track IR, mostly flying lone wolf missions...
But the last few online sessions I really screwed up (k/d &lt;= 1).

Hope it's also part of the learning curve...

Bye

Olaf

Jex_TG
05-11-2005, 05:35 AM
LOL enguarde - you and your hate of anything energy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MichaelMar: A lot depends on what plane you are flying, and what your opponent is flying.

Would you try to beat a drag racer with a rally car on a straight run? Who would win over a rally track?

It may be that you are trying to match an inferior plane against a much more powerful or nimble opponent.

What would help is to know what plane you fly, and against what planes are you being shot down. It's probably better to give you tips against specific planes rather than just bombard you with tonnes of information.

I think once you get good in one plane, and learn how to attack different opponents, you'll begin to learn a lot more and can then branch out into different planes perhaps.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">some boogie appears on your 6 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can just see it now, I look in my mirror and have some jap or yank shaking his thing behind me with a bit of break dancing thrown in lol http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

EnGaurde
05-11-2005, 07:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">LOL enguarde - you and your hate of anything energy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Energy storage is a popular tool....of many?

Situational awareness isnt "cool" enough to pay attention to... it takes a bit more than simple altitude?

Yet.

Good luck.

I'll remember......

geetarman
05-11-2005, 08:08 AM
Fly to complete objectives, but also to survive. If you're looking for a fight from start to finish, you're gonna get nailed eventually.

Think thru it a bit. If half of the guys on your server are only looking for a fight, you'll eventually stumble across a guy who is so focused on shooting someone down that you can slide in behiand him and whack him. Might take a long time and you won't be a high scorer, but you'll shoot down plenty over time and surviv your mission.

Patience.

Jex_TG
05-11-2005, 10:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EnGaurde:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">LOL enguarde - you and your hate of anything energy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Energy storage is a popular tool....of many?

Situational awareness isnt "cool" enough to pay attention to... it takes a bit more than simple altitude?

Yet.

Good luck.

I'll remember...... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SA is probably the number 1 priority, if you cannot see your opponent, or are unaware of him, then you'll end up dead.

As for energy storage being a popular tool I would disagree. From my experience, most people end up flying (literally) in circles trying to get on each others 6. I see very few tactics used other than this. I wonder if this has any relation to uber planes? If the turning fight is the most used 'tactic', then perhaps people get annoyed when they get out turned and suddenly the other plane is seen as 'uber'.

Surely taking advantage of your opponents weakness is the key to success, after of course, you've seen them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SlickStick
05-11-2005, 12:27 PM
#1 Gunnery

#2 Situational Awareness

Remember, there are folks online who have been flying this game online since the IL-2 beta. Myself since 2001 release of IL-2.

No substitute for experience. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Indianer.
05-11-2005, 01:06 PM
Get altitude

Keep looking around you

Practice gunnary.

or failing that just climb into an La7.

nickdanger3
05-11-2005, 02:04 PM
Part of the equation is hardware: TrackIR, separate throttle with sliders for trim, rudder pedals, comms.

Are the reqiured ? No. Some people out there kick major tuckus without them, but they WILL help the majority of pilots, if only so that those of us born without mutant flight simming genes can concentrate on flying rather than what are fingers are doing at any given time.

Quick example. I can't put a specific kph on it, but I fly faster now that I can trim my plane more precisely using an X-45. Speed is life.

Also, for most, a TrackIR improves SA. Vital adavantage. Not like any of this stuff helps me - I get pwned all of the time too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Indianer.
05-12-2005, 03:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Also, for most, a TrackIR improves SA. Vital adavantage. Not like any of this stuff helps me - I get pwned all of the time too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Very true. I bought the origional (which I still use) and its been excellent. Its amazing the immersion it gives you also. As nick has already stated seperate throttle i.e x45 helps as well.

Prangerman
05-12-2005, 06:04 AM
Agree with others about situational awareness, gunnery and especially, not jumping into the first fur ball you see. Make sure you have an advantage - speed, surprise, altitude. Press home your attack with conviction, and have an escape plan if it goes wrong, e.g. head for the clouds.

Download Teamspeak - go to Warbirds of Prey and see which of their servers has people using their Teamspeak server - join that TS server - join the respective Warbirds of Prey game server on Hyperlobby (i.e. Spitfire v 109s TS server for Spitfire v 109 game server) - in game, ask to join up with those flying, they are a very friendly and helpful bunch - just use correct markings, don't take off on taxiways, and don't team kill.
It becomes a slighlty less dangerous virtual experience with others calling out the contacts/bogies and clearing your tail - and boy!, is it immersive.