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View Full Version : Pre-Made Groups, lets whip this dead horse some more



papa_joseph1
11-26-2018, 03:23 AM
Alright, Ubisoft, is there any way you can be bothered to make sure that both sides have premades if one does? getting tired of getting crushed by pub stomping clans who go out of their way to ruin any fun the game offers via meta spam.

better yet, give me the choice to flat out opt out of playing with them? even if it makes MM longer.

p0wn3rki11
11-26-2018, 05:02 AM
What's worse are the premades that purposefully grab people far lower than them to tweak the matchmaking. It happens, I've seen it. That random rep 200 or 2 matched up with 2 people at like rep 20...and of course you lose because they are NOT equal skill with you despite what the game says. Although the game is usually ok about matching teams to teams, they usually are unbalanced. Like a 2 man and 2 randos vs a 4 man kill squad.

SicKno86
11-26-2018, 06:50 PM
I can hold my own against pre-mades (they're not even great players, they just rely on ganks)
But the problem is, the rest of my three random teammates can't hold their own. So that's a loss and me being MvP again wich happen about 99% of the time now.

Doesn't matter if i disperse the enemy team or not. They just can't kill anyone. Was playing against a pre-made earlier. I lured a Conq away by using the Balista. The guy never attacked and used his allblock everytime i'd attack and ofcourse CGB everytime, so i used Valk's Shield Bash and used different mix ups. When he finally did attack because i was killing him, i used dodge block and made him bleed. The guy never came for me again unless his buddies were around.

Unfortunately i saw my teammates just trying to hit him over and over again, no matter how many times he used his allblock and immediate heavy attack after that. There's simply nothing you can do with morons like that on your team. No objective play on my side. Atleast two extra decent players on my team and we would have won easy. Ended up with 1400 points, outscoring their top player and they all spam "good fight" Yeah that's right. Good fight on my part.

Pre-mades aren't the problem. It's the terrible matchmaking system. Game will not live very long anymore.

UbiInsulin
11-26-2018, 08:57 PM
Alright, Ubisoft, is there any way you can be bothered to make sure that both sides have premades if one does? getting tired of getting crushed by pub stomping clans who go out of their way to ruin any fun the game offers via meta spam.

better yet, give me the choice to flat out opt out of playing with them? even if it makes MM longer.

We've let the team know that there's concerns about pre-made groups having too much dominance. We'll continue to pass them this feedback.

NHLGoldenKnight
11-27-2018, 02:24 AM
Honestly, I am not sure anything can be done about it. Every game has that kind of issues but it is easier in FPS games. For Honor is melee game with face to face fight and despite Ubisoft best efforts solution is probably not feasible.

Players are complaining for a reason when it comes to matchmaking however they forget that player base is pretty small and even with current matchmaking it 8s not easy to get 4v4 fight. So expecting to be matched vs simioar skilled players is maybe unrealistic.

MarshalMoriarty
11-27-2018, 02:57 AM
There are 2 things I'll add.

1) Its supremely naive to dismiss premades as bad players. There's no guarantee at all of that and the benedits of co-ordinated play are enormous.

2) I'm not unsympathetic to the idea that friends like to team up. If the premades aren't toxic and can at least recognise that its poor form to wildly celebrate etc when they have such a huge advantage, then everything's cool. Sadly however, most premade teams ARE toxic and delight in behaving like complete prats.

chukblok
11-27-2018, 04:12 AM
Speaking of player base...I wonder what the current active tally is across all platforms combined these days. Last update was feb. I'd really like to know

Alustar.
11-27-2018, 06:27 AM
Putting solo players and premade groups on separate queues will not diminish the deathballs. Just saiyan.

Knight_Raime
11-27-2018, 07:29 AM
Putting solo players and premade groups on separate queues will not diminish the deathballs. Just saiyan.

Pretty much this. Death balling can only be discouraged by giving little to no value for kills in dominion point wise and heavily encouraging fights on points via making kills worth far more there.
Basically there is almost zero reason to hold points when you can swing things back in your favor with just a few back caps. It would also be great if revenge wasn't obtainable outside two or more people locking onto you. And it worked as an actual stalling tool instead of enabling the person to straight up slaughter an even half way decent gank.

But honestly feats play a bigger role in that than revenge at this point. I really wish feats were different.

Lord_Cherubi
11-27-2018, 10:00 AM
Pretty much this. Death balling can only be discouraged by giving little to no value for kills in dominion point wise and heavily encouraging fights on points via making kills worth far more there.
Basically there is almost zero reason to hold points when you can swing things back in your favor with just a few back caps. It would also be great if revenge wasn't obtainable outside two or more people locking onto you. And it worked as an actual stalling tool instead of enabling the person to straight up slaughter an even half way decent gank.

But honestly feats play a bigger role in that than revenge at this point. I really wish feats were different.

I believe they're aiming to remoce revenge gain on 1v1 situations now (FINALLY FFS) 🙈

Devils-_-legacy
11-27-2018, 02:17 PM
Putting solo players and premade groups on separate queues will not diminish the deathballs. Just saiyan.

Can I ask how? As it normally has this effect in most games it's implemented l. from my experience trying to get yourself and 3 randoms to death ball and communication well is impossible compared to a group of premade at least my experience from being on both sides it's so much easier for your team to overcome a death ball situation when it's a level playing field like premade vs premade with both teams on mics. I honestly haven't had a game of randoms vs randoms since last season so I would beg for either group only que or solo

Han-Singular
11-27-2018, 06:15 PM
Alright, Ubisoft, is there any way you can be bothered to make sure that both sides have premades if one does? getting tired of getting crushed by pub stomping clans who go out of their way to ruin any fun the game offers via meta spam.

better yet, give me the choice to flat out opt out of playing with them? even if it makes MM longer.

The only way to fix that would be to limit the teams to one hero of each type for each team.

This would be the most logical decision. To bad the salt would pile up with people complaining.

NHLGoldenKnight
11-28-2018, 01:35 AM
The only way to fix that would be to limit the teams to one hero of each type for each team.

This would be the most logical decision. To bad the salt would pile up with people complaining.

This so much!

But we know it is never going to happen because everyone would crying because they can't gank with their 3 assassin friends as effectively as they used to. Single pick would also help with balance issues.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-28-2018, 02:00 AM
The only way to fix that would be to limit the teams to one hero of each type for each team.

This would be the most logical decision. To bad the salt would pile up with people complaining.

What if they limited any party to a single faction that has to be picked by party leader? In game the team gets less renown for double or more picking the same character?

Alustar.
11-28-2018, 04:58 AM
Can I ask how? As it normally has this effect in most games it's implemented l. from my experience trying to get yourself and 3 randoms to death ball and communication well is impossible compared to a group of premade at least my experience from being on both sides it's so much easier for your team to overcome a death ball situation when it's a level playing field like premade vs premade with both teams on mics. I honestly haven't had a game of randoms vs randoms since last season so I would beg for either group only que or solo

Because premades aren't the only ones who deathball. Go into any dominion and you will notice, regardless of how teams are made up, (obviouse premade or not) that remains the easiest way to play the game. Everyone knows by now how to cheese hit stun, and revenge is pretty much useless by now. Couple that with next to meaningless objectives in objective based modes mean that no matter what the group, you can be sure they will deathball.

Col.Bullet
11-28-2018, 07:04 PM
Because premades aren't the only ones who deathball. Go into any dominion and you will notice, regardless of how teams are made up, (obviouse premade or not) that remains the easiest way to play the game. Everyone knows by now how to cheese hit stun, and revenge is pretty much useless by now. Couple that with next to meaningless objectives in objective based modes mean that no matter what the group, you can be sure they will deathball.
It isn't just that. A deathball often culminates as a snowballing collective event. Players just join in eventually. As such, adjusting point values in objective based modes wouldn't change anything; there is no reflexive thought proccess behind it. There once was a thread recognizing this, striving for more effective changes to the system that would be immediatly noticeable by the “perpetrators“.

Alustar.
11-28-2018, 07:12 PM
I have mentioned several times in numerous threads, that the magic bullet for this problem would be to implement diminishing returns for certain attacks. Particularly unblockables, bashes and hit stun itself. This would go a long way to improving the quality of life for the players involved in 4v4 and likely would also improve the current state of 1v1 as well.

Tundra 793
11-28-2018, 07:28 PM
The only way to fix that would be to limit the teams to one hero of each type for each team.

This would be the most logical decision. To bad the salt would pile up with people complaining.

That wouldn't solve this problem at all. The issue here, as I understand it, isn't the variety of the heroes you're getting ganked by, but the quantity.

Roseguard_Cpt
11-28-2018, 07:34 PM
I seem to remember a diminishing returns system in the Indie Fighter, Skull Girls where if you use the same move or combo more than 2 or 3 times in a row the damage will gradually diminish towards zero until you do a new combo. Of course this requires characters to have better kits because if a Conq does 0 damage on his lights until he lands a heavy, he's going to have a bad time.

While Skull Girls punishes spamming, games like GuiltyGearX punish being overly passive. In GGX's case your special meter will drain if you stay "out of the fight for too long". It could be interesting if in For Honor characters who stare at the other person for say 7 seconds without attacking, parrying, feinting, etc, got a "Slacker" debuff that caused them to go reflex guard it could be a nice little wake-up call. Characters would again need better kits so that way they are not forced to stand idle and wait.

MumfordDaHound
12-01-2018, 03:34 PM
After one game if the teams don't swap players you know it's a premade and you can leave at the start of the next game.