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View Full Version : Why are Bad Heroes Fun?



p0wn3rki11
11-20-2018, 01:56 PM
The title is the question. Lately I have been bouncing around between heroes, both to keep it interesting and to learn them so i know what to look for when fighting them. After playing Shugoki and now Raaaaiiiiideeeeerrrrr. (sorry i just had to) i have found that they are REALLY fun. But why? They both are regarded as 2 of the worst heroes on the roster, Shugoki even being a solid last on most tier listings. This phenomenon i have also seen in Destiny 1 with the No Land Beyond sniper, which was the same case. So i guess what is it that makes the bad heroes more fun than the meta?

Personally for me it is the impact both these characters make. With raider he has an extremely high level of versatility with what little he has and he hits like a truck, with a lot of his punishes he regularly uses resulting in this big damage. Shugoki on the other hand....there is something so fun about deleting 90% of someone's health when they aren't paying attention with a fully charged heavy. Or eating someone alive with a backbreak at critical health. You don't win a lot with them, but it is still fun.

I guess the question was something I was hoping we all could put our heads together and share what we believe to make them enjoyable to use, even if they are "D-Tier"

Tatsu147146
11-20-2018, 03:52 PM
I agree, even though Shugoki is the worst hero in the game I still love using him and although I rarely use Raider it's actually pretty fun. I've been thinking about why they are fun and in my opinion it's because their way of fighting is so much more believable than a lot of the other characters, they don't have moves that are incredibly cheesy or that would get your limbs chopped off in real life (like punching, kicking, palm striking, shoulder bash, shield bash, etc.). I also find this to be the case with Lawbringer, his is my favorite Knight and the only one I use who is also very underpowered yet I find him to be the most fun Knight personally and he also has a more believable move set.

Estillon
11-20-2018, 06:32 PM
My main is Nobushi and I've played plenty of Lawbringer during the last few months of the first year. A lot of Orochi prior to his rework too.

I reflected on this the other day and I'm suspecting that I'm subconsciously picking sub-par heroes so I don't feel so bad about getting stomped.

My subconscious is clearly afraid that if it picks a good hero, it's going to become clear that I am the main problem, not the hero!

On a more serious note:

No other hero is as elegant as Nobushi. When you got a good combo going, she's just so graceful!

No other hero is as badass as LB.

And Orochi is just so iconic.

I'm a bit sad that I can't seem to gitgud with Highlander though... I have tons of fun with him against bots but I'm complete trash against other players.

Tyrjo
11-20-2018, 07:15 PM
Bad heroes are fun because they don't feel cheap when you win, or lose. You know you lost because you effed up bad, or the other way around. :)

I said this in another thread: "Why is it that the most fun I have is playing as an original hero vs an original hero?"

ytrecvbnm
11-20-2018, 07:28 PM
It is more fun to do well with the 'bad character' than do ok with the 'meta'.

UbiInsulin
11-20-2018, 08:30 PM
I always had a great time playing with Shugoki too. Demon's Embrace is hilarious whether you succeed or fail. I think part of the reason is down at my level, we're all just doing our best and the meta doesn't make much of a difference.

I agree that it also takes the pressure off some. It's a bit weird to tryhard if you're knowingly using a low-tier hero.

Goat_of_Vermund
11-20-2018, 08:36 PM
I main pk since season 3, and despite her rework was little more than a disappointing nerf sold as rework, I think I have more fun with her now. I had to become a better player, it is very hard now to win with her, and she got a few little offensive tools. I picked her and kept her because she is extremely simple on the surface, but has very good potentials for creating your own mixups if you dig deeper.

I think that picking bad heroes if fun because you don't feel so much you must win, and you are fighting an uphill battle, which is far more fun than always fighting downhill. For example, if you really want to win with conq, most characters can't do much, you get them exhausted once, and if you really want to, you finish them off right there, and counter most things with a zone. You must actually hinder yourself to have some fun in most cases. I mainly pick conqueror if I run into a berserker or shaman who irritates me on my worse days, I want a break from losing, or I simply going through my mains.

I recently picked back musha, raider and shugoki. They are not in a good spot, but they can actually do surprisingly more than some realize, it is purely about your skill what will you do about it.
I actually really like the current atlramusha more, I barely use more than two attacks before the tempest finisher, but I like his flow and he starts to feel better with every duel. It was just a random idea to pick him up, and he almost immedietely earned a place as one of my mains.

Lord_Cherubi
11-20-2018, 10:56 PM
For me it's the challenge, i had amazing time playing Shugo last season, won one duel tournament and had the best duel EVER against this one Shinobi. Had to befriend him after that, it was so intense kinda like David and Goliath 😂

Some of the days are just a pain in the ***. He can be quite a threat in 4v4 but he doesnt have anything going for him in terms of anti-gank so even though im playing a fat man with a tree trunk for a weapon i get stomped like a mosquito.

And in duels you face a lot of tryhards who force YOU to be the aggressor even tho i have basically nothing to work with.

But a DE finisher in duels is always fun as hell

AramenThePiper
11-21-2018, 06:12 PM
Because bad character require more skill to get going.
You need to get mindgames under control, you need to work on your spacing, work on your punishes and get creative with the little you have. When you win, you win because you're clearly better than your opponent, who more often then not is using a meta character with translates to ''Press buttons and win''

Kamen42
11-22-2018, 03:36 PM
I haven't read the comments so sorry if I repeat something that was already said.

For me personally it is about the satisfaction. Generally, in any game, if I play an easy hero that is almost guaranteed to win, there is no joy in winning for me. If you have a "press this button anytime to instantly win" skill, it is really not a lot of fun. But if you take a weak hero and you manage to win, that is when the real satisfaction arrives.

pure_energist
11-22-2018, 05:29 PM
Believing you won with an inferior hero elevates that win. I have been maining shugoki since MF release because I really enjoy the stamina burn on his headbutt and making players go oos is more rewarding with the stat buffs gone. His punish relies a lot on mixups that they usually see comming but Ive had a lot of sucess feinting his charged heavy because players are use to shugo players letting it go all the time. You cant feint the unblockable but you can feint right up to it when he still makes his telegraphing yell that most think means unblockable. I even get demons embraces without wallsplat during trades sometimes so he has moments that are thrilling like rolling the dice. What makes it rewarding is knowing when winning with shugo everything he did was reactable, and the opponent was beaten “fairly”. Being beat by light spam or tool kits that require guessing their next move rather then being able to react feels cheap and on console its the norm.

MuscleTech12018
11-22-2018, 09:04 PM
I main pk since season 3, and despite her rework was little more than a disappointing nerf sold as rework, I think I have more fun with her now. I had to become a better player, it is very hard now to win with her, and she got a few little offensive tools. I picked her and kept her because she is extremely simple on the surface, but has very good potentials for creating your own mixups if you dig deeper.

I think that picking bad heroes if fun because you don't feel so much you must win, and you are fighting an uphill battle, which is far more fun than always fighting downhill. For example, if you really want to win with conq, most characters can't do much, you get them exhausted once, and if you really want to, you finish them off right there, and counter most things with a zone. You must actually hinder yourself to have some fun in most cases. I mainly pick conqueror if I run into a berserker or shaman who irritates me on my worse days, I want a break from losing, or I simply going through my mains.

I recently picked back musha, raider and shugoki. They are not in a good spot, but they can actually do surprisingly more than some realize, it is purely about your skill what will you do about it.
I actually really like the current atlramusha more, I barely use more than two attacks before the tempest finisher, but I like his flow and he starts to feel better with every duel. It was just a random idea to pick him up, and he almost immedietely earned a place as one of my mains.

Dude, pk is insanely good if you just turtle and spam zone + gB and bleed. Now in season 8 bleed is the most powerful tool ingame.

Try a hard class like raider or shugoki, till then be quiet, it's clearly you don';t know what this game should feel like....

Helnekromancer
11-23-2018, 05:21 AM
Dude, pk is insanely good if you just turtle and spam zone + gB and bleed. Now in season 8 bleed is the most powerful tool ingame.

Try a hard class like raider or shugoki, till then be quiet, it's clearly you don';t know what this game should feel like....

"PK is insanely good if you turtle" You can say that for anyone, not everyone plays like an absolute scumbag.

Knight_Raime
11-23-2018, 05:47 AM
For most people i've found it's because there is an extra challenge in playing non meta heros. So wins against meta heros ends up feeling more satisfying. Personally I just pick heros I find fun playing regardless of their tier. I enjoyed Aramusha over shaman when season 4 dropped despite shaman being the superior of the two. I rather enjoy his kit design as a whole. Well. At least I did. I wasn't fond of the changes the devs made. But they did say they weren't done adjusting him. So maybe the rest of the changes they make for him whenever might rekindle my love for his kit again.

Centurion has always been my favorite hero. Both when he was broken and even now when he's a joke. I just love how cocky he is.

p0wn3rki11
11-23-2018, 11:55 AM
For most people i've found it's because there is an extra challenge in playing non meta heros. So wins against meta heros ends up feeling more satisfying. Personally I just pick heros I find fun playing regardless of their tier. I enjoyed Aramusha over shaman when season 4 dropped despite shaman being the superior of the two. I rather enjoy his kit design as a whole. Well. At least I did. I wasn't fond of the changes the devs made. But they did say they weren't done adjusting him. So maybe the rest of the changes they make for him whenever might rekindle my love for his kit again.

Centurion has always been my favorite hero. Both when he was broken and even now when he's a joke. I just love how cocky he is.

Centurion is great, i would classify him as anything BUT a joke. In the right hands you can cutscene someone down to 1 bar in a single combo. He has some potent mindgames too, but he suffers from "T-Rex Arm Syndrome" as his range is ****e, but im ok with that. He has good stuns and hard harass potential with a lot of guaranteed hits in his kit, but he lacks a good opener and has short range. In otherwords, he is beatable, he has weaknesses and strengths....almost like he is BALANCED!

Goat_of_Vermund
11-23-2018, 12:24 PM
"Dude", any decent player with any decent character shuts down the pk. She has no opener and the overall lowest damage with short range, low stamina and the bare minimum of mixups. She actually sucks against the other weakests, lawbringer and shugoki. Raider is miles better than pk.
As a turtle, she sucks, she has the lowest punishes and no real pressure on exhausted opponents. Her zone exhausts her if she is not on full. Her bleed does nothing special, it is just some low-moderate damage, and you barely land them anyway. Only noobs think she is strong.

papa_joseph1
11-23-2018, 01:18 PM
It's because it's rewarding, when you can use somebody like LawBringer to deal with the blatantly broken heroes like JJ and others at the moment, the acomplishment of dealing with Ubi's poor state of game balance with the worst heroes in the game is rewarding.