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papa_joseph1
11-17-2018, 03:08 AM
Alright, let's keep this simple and straight, Stealth should not be a perk, it just makes the game more frustrating and encourages ganking, lets go though the list shall we?

Does it make assassins harder to fight?

No.

Does it make it easier for them to gank?

Yes.

Does it make the game have another level of complexity?

No.

I just have never understood why anybody thought this was a good game design choice, the game's name is "For Honor" yet a whole slew of heroes have a perk that makes that removes their icons from the UI just to make them easier to get a free bleed or tackle on you without them even bothering to use any derived skill or fighting prowess. Combine the above mentioned with a wall splat and light spam you have an ALT+F4 worthy moment.

It's particularly bad in breach when PK and others are shorter then the pikemen and officers, allowing them to just tail them into a cap and just ruin any fun the other team was having because of a skill that exists solely to make the game more frustrating.

MarshalMoriarty
11-17-2018, 03:22 AM
To me, Stealth is another example of how badly wrong the devs are about the assassin class. For the huge range of advantages they have, they have few weaknesses. And Ubi have always seemed convinced their 'low' HP justifies this (when in reality, they have more HP than they should). They seem convinced that assassins need potent protection from their lvl 1 Feats like Stealth and Kiai or they'll have no chance in 4v4.

And that's just nonsense. Stealth should be an Activated feat, not a Passive. Assassins have always been outrageous pests in 4v4 due to their high movement speed and spammy styles. But they're Ubi's favorite class (to the point where the Wu-Lin all kind of feel like assassins to a greater or lesser degree).

Wookiescantfly
11-18-2018, 06:14 PM
The role of an assassin in For Honor is to move from hero to hero, killing as many as they can with guerrilla warfare tactics. Nothing helps aid this playstyle better than qol abilities that grant freedom of movement. Stealth literally just allows them to approach or escape without the radar giving them away. The radar is super casual to begin with and im kinda curious as to what 6th sense these heroes all have that would allow them to detect the presence of other heroes on the battlefield through walls and other obstacles , but I digress.

I could see where an argument could be made to make it active rather than passive, but imo it's nowhere near powerful enough to warrant any kind of nerf.

MarshalMoriarty
11-18-2018, 06:52 PM
The issue is how powerful it (and other assassin lvl 1 Perks like Stun mine and Kiai) are compared to the various lvl 1 Feats others have. Stealth lets you get a lot of free hits, get the first hit etc. This surprise value along with the speed and power of assassins is a lethal mix. Especially with the existence of perks like Early Reaper and Crush Them.

I don't disagree that its characterful, but its sensationally good for a Lvl 1 Passive Feat. The proof is clear in the pick rates. How many characters who can have Stealth, Stun mine and Kiai ever take anything else?

MuscleTech12018
11-18-2018, 08:02 PM
The role of an assassin in For Honor is to move from hero to hero, killing as many as they can with guerrilla warfare tactics. Nothing helps aid this playstyle better than qol abilities that grant freedom of movement. Stealth literally just allows them to approach or escape without the radar giving them away. The radar is super casual to begin with and im kinda curious as to what 6th sense these heroes all have that would allow them to detect the presence of other heroes on the battlefield through walls and other obstacles , but I digress.

I could see where an argument could be made to make it active rather than passive, but imo it's nowhere near powerful enough to warrant any kind of nerf.

You got the wrong game buddy. Go for some strategy forums, you're clearly in an utipia gaming not a fight game.

dedric_branford
11-18-2018, 08:52 PM
stealth is a unique mechanic to the game. I personaly dont want it to be removed

BLOOD-E-BARON
11-18-2018, 09:59 PM
I just it capture points unhindered most of the time, is the perk broken?? No. Should it change also no. I think alot of the problems with For Honor now is how quickly people call for the nerf hammer...... yourself included

SangLong524
11-18-2018, 10:52 PM
The perk is not a big deal at all.
I wont argue the pros and cons of Stealth perk, only the common sense, which you should have possessed some measure in the first place.
Assassins are supposed to be stealthy. Thousands of dead kings, queens, warlords, etc can attest to this common sense. This perk just reinforces that fact by removing the icon. They dont practically vanish. Besides, naturally assassins arent shown as clearly as others. So i would say that this perk actually underperform, or add very little benefit.
And you are informed of this b4 match starts, unless its PvAI. So review the face off screen, and pay the f*cking attention to the actual surrounding, not relying on radar while parking your a** at some location. No excuses. Yes, mistakes are made, its normal.

MarshalMoriarty
11-19-2018, 12:10 AM
Radar invisibility is just one feature of Stealth. It also removes the icon above them which makes it easy for them to blend in with minions due to their small size and it disables Aim Assist against them, making them far more difficult to hit with ranged Feats.

And you don't think that all this is a bit generous for a Lvl 1 Passive Feat? Given they unlock in the first few minutes of what are usually 10-15 minute matches, its essentially giving them 3 free abilities. All of which are better than practically any lvl 1 Feat from the other classes. Spare a thought for poor old Warden. Come at Me anyone?

No? Didn't think so.

papa_joseph1
11-19-2018, 01:27 AM
It's not an excuse, i play Law Bringer primary even though he is currently the most useless pick.
Removing a hero from the UI should just not be a thing, Also SangLong do you ever play 4V4? Stealth is most advantageous when you play as ganky and frustrating as possible, I had a game where a PK did nothing but let a 3 man deathball roll around and all she did was stealth up and get a bleed in from behind and then leave.

This is the problem as i stated at the start, it makes ganking more valuable as a tactic.
and ganking is one of the biggest reasons people put away For Honor, because it's not fun, it's just cancerous

MarshalMoriarty
11-19-2018, 01:52 AM
But you do see their point, right? The things you describe are perfectly in keeping with what you would expect an assassin to do. Why would such a fighter elect to fight fairly? You can't just dismiss it as not playing the game properly and disallow it.

The part I question is how super efficient it is for only being lvl 1. It should be an Activated feat or it should be lost when you lay eyes on them until they can break LOS again.

Devils-_-legacy
11-19-2018, 02:13 AM
Imo Keep it as it is the only time it's really usefully is for escaping

Goat_of_Vermund
11-19-2018, 07:09 AM
Honestly, stealth is already one of the weakests feats, and since assassins have less access to healing, taking it means sacrificing Bounty Hunter. Stealth gives you very little actually, most players pay attention and notice you (the term "ganking pk" doesn't exist btw, literally the worst character for any team fights).
And poor warden with 3 different healing feats, a bleed immunity feat that destroys at least four different heroes' whole kit (they are the ones equipped with stealth btw), or three bombs and two buff feats if you choose that. And yeah, Come at me is bad. So is Conqueror on pk for example.
If you mistake a pk to a minion, she deserves that 25 damage lead.