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CandleInTheDark
11-15-2018, 09:08 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuGGc6F8TQE

We had a little blurb from Eric yesterday


Hey gang,

​Be sure to tune into the show tomorrow as the fight team gives you some insight into what they're working on these days and to answer some of the Q's we saw around the community on the subject of Fight and Balancing this past week. Thanks so much for all the wonderful and constructive posts over the last week (and last year tbh).

We're not going to solve everyone's worries about this stuff in a single show, but I do hope you will find it interesting and informative, and if nothing else show a little more openness than we have done on the Fight topic in recent weeks.


Achievement Unlocked: Feeding The Five Thousand (this may be a small exaggeration)

Questions asked answered \m/<(-.-)>\m/

News of the week

A fix came out yesterday that fixed PC players using less than four cpu cores being stuck on black screen

Community tournaments

Tomorrow 6PM Pacific Nix(?) JWM's Rumble in the Rough 1v1 tournament, $95 Canadian

LS tournament 2v2 PC 6pm Moscow time

For Honor Arena 4v4 Sunday 1PM Eastern dominion on PS4 $100 prize. 2PM there is one for the PC, same prize. Battlefy.com/for-honor-arena

For Honor Esports, battlefy.com/forhonor-esports PC 1v1 open cup Europe Saturday 1pm Central European Time, For Honor PC 1v1 Turkey Amateur Sunday 6pm Central European, For Honor Turkey Pro 7PM Central European

All of these are on Battlfey, search For Honor

15th-22th Dance of Death

Slayer challenge event order, faction with most takedowns in Dance of Death.

Sale of the week, some Mythic Outifts

Content of the week Rock Paper Scissors emote

Fight update

The focus has been on cotnent for the last period but they do want to be more open and have more dialogue. They're not going to be able top address everything we want in one show but they are looking at being more transparent.

A big thank you to the community, they asked for some feedback and questions, the whole team have been reading it and going over it.

They start with the biggest problems they see currently that they are working on at the current time, a lot of the stuff they are working on is generally in line with what people are complaining about and Eric made the point they don't always communicate that well enough.

Top three issues from a fight system perspective – Reaction reduction, revenge when not outnumbered and targetting.

They are stressing throughout that they are talking about 2019 changes, this isn't stuff coming tomorrow. Their fear has sometimes been that if they say they are working on something tomorrow people want to know where it is tomorrow.

Reaction reduction. The wall they are starting to hit on the offence side is that certain attacks are not doing what they want them to do at the highest level, openers are not acting like openers. They brought up conqueror shieldbash, gladiator zone, berserker second light, why are these so good? They don't believe they are being leaned on because they obsolete the rest of an otherwise working kit but because that is what works, 500ms attacks are not doing it. It's a global thing, they brought up Orochi and why aren't his lights getting the job done? That 500ms light gets blocked. A lot of characters have kits that look like they should work, but they are a little too slow, a little too reactable, a little too obvious to work.

Revenge: They brought up that people are getting revenge when outnumbering the opponent and that is making some attacks that are working currently not viable. The way they are trying to work on this is revenge being an I am outnumbered tool, not an I am losing tool.

Targetting: Currently if you are outnumbered there is a very definite thing where they can get the two closest to them but not the third, they are working on it.

Hero specifics

Shugoki: Shugoki has a weird playstyle right now where people gb to break the armour then they are having to light to try to break guardbreak after guardbreak, no expectation on lights working (600ms), no expectation out of demon's embrace, heavy finishers. Shugoki is the one they are working on as their biggest priority and they expect season 9. Apparently the floor are telling him to nerf the test build if that makes people hopeful.

Lawbringer: Ok nervous about saying this, Lawbringer works when he is able to counter attack, which is perhaps harder than they want right now. On the other side he has no opener, no pressure, even shove on block, ok he can shove but the opponent can just roll it. Ganking is great, throwing bombs is great, 4v4 he gets the job done, the situation they have is he is very good in one circumstance, not so much in the other. He is clearly a hero that needs some love and they are working on that. Just a note, they watch tournaments such as the ones they listed at the start of the show (Stefan did this in all his free time Season 5) and the likes that they mentioned, they don't go only off the numbers.

There is a slew of other characters people are talking about, they are hearing it. They don't want to mention everyone , they brought up that they went a little too far with Peacekeeper, Warlord and Shinobi, all they will say right now is they don't want them to be based around out of lock sprint attacks.

Q&A

Bots, general feedback is Bots at level 2 are too easy Bots at level 3 are too hard. People are losing in Arcade more than they would like. Last patch they shaved down a little the damage btos are doing in arcade, next patch they will also be tuning down how infallible bots are at blocking and parrying. They have a lot of people looking at arcade and at bots.

XTMT: Why can't Shugoki feint unblockable heavy? Same issue with Centurion heavy unblockable. Apparently the test build Shugoki can feint his unblockable.

Gladiator zone attack, how do they plan to fix how the zone makes him feel cheap without breaking him given that is all he has? Zone is good, toe stab is good 4v4, the rest of the kit...well yeah, they haven't seen four lights in a row for gladiator ever. That is part of what they were talking about with how some things are entirely too reactable. This doesn't mean they are ignoring the people who are talking about light spam, but they do say watch tournaments, these do not work.

Some characters are stronger with their unlocked attacks, what are their thoughts on this? Yeah as they said before, they don't want people to be basing their whole 1v1 play around this. They want them to be strong tools in 4v4, but they do need to be looked at in 1v1 success? Warlord they would likely need a buff to compensate, shinobi is more complicated because his damage is alreay overtuned, but they want to knock these unlock attacks out of 1v1 viability.

Knight_Raime: Will we get a refocus on ehro balance any time soon? Marching Fire they were very content focussed, now they are in a phase where the focus is more on balance.

Have feats been looked at for largescale changes? They haven't got any largescale overhaul planned. What they do like is how the Wu lin have feats that are more cohesive with their 4v4 identity, same with lawbringer bombs.

Real Dirty Dan: State of balance: next week.

What is the status on rebalnce for Valk and PK? That is more a discussion for next week if they are going into State of Balance. What they can say today is they have seen the data, Valk is overperforming battlewise as a whole, tournament level not so much. PK as they said she is in a not good state.

Rolund Vermond:Are they considering tweaking more frequently? They are reluctant to increase the balance rate, they don't want heroes pingponging. They had a period where they were doing big nerfs and buffs then rolling them back on the same move and they didn't learn if the changes were making a difference in the long term. They don't want to be like certain other games where hero viability changes wildly every week. What they do want to do is talk more often on where they are thinking balancewise.

Devil's Legacy: With the removal of gearstats is there any chance they can look over the OG and DLC cast, certainly in terms of stamina? They can keep a look over it, they are not currently of the mind to make changes in reaction to the loss of gearstats as tournaments did not have gear stats to begin with and they have had that testbed. They are keeping the closest eye on revenge build and revive speeds with the gear stat removal.

Tom Likes Ardveg (sorry, I likely butchered that name): Why were minion killing animations removed? They are trying to unify combat, pikemen die in multiple hits so they can#t be used there, they were getting to the situation where if you are in dominion you do this, pikemen this, unlock this, then there are those who were far too slow. Zone has always been the most effective tool in that case in dominion.

Hidokiri Zero (again likely butchered the name): Can we get a dedicated zone button? Um...if you can find a button free on the controller? More helpful answer maybe, if certain experiments work the way they are hoping they can have a little more leniency in the window in the future.

X Striker J: Why is nothing being done about conqueror's shieldbash? It discourages players using anything else in his kit despite it being relatively solid. Stefan says he would like it if we could play a version where the characters didn't have moves such as these then tell them what tier the characters are. The emphasis needs to be more on can they give the whole roster a little more viability? If at the point they can do this and some moves such as the bash are too powerful then yes they can nerf that kind of move.

Will Nuxia deflect be fixed as it can be blocked and punished? The Nuxia deflect is not guaranteed by design as it can have its direction of attack changed. Basically the deflect is the way it is by design.

Have Nuxia's traps been considered by the devs due to inconsistency? They are at the other end of the scale as they are with Conqueror. Her trap is 400ms and can be delayed which creates a semi reactable to totally reactable situation. If they can make the feint believeability to be more difficult that is more a large scale changed.

Are they aware that the Jiang Jun's movements don;t match indicators? Yes, working on it.

White breaking skull obscures UI: The team are working on this.

Dev talks

Pascal Mimelaut: He is one of the OG, been working on For Honor for five years.

He got his start with the Rocky Balboa PSP game. Did some snowboarding and skateboarding type games. His main role is animation.

He has been working with animations in For Honor from starting with only the Warden and Orochi onwards.

He did the original Warrior's Den guitar theme and has music out there under the name Berserkyd.

He is a homegrown talent in terms of the Ubisoft animation team, he was one of the first crop in a school that Ubisoft had set up.

Favourite moment: The moment he arrived and was involved in a fresh new IP.

He is a Viking.

Any message to the fans? Keep playing, there is so much potential and this is just the beginning.

Community corner and wrap

Corentin10111
11-15-2018, 10:03 AM
Hi CandleInTheDark, i think we all admire your indefectible devotion.
The thing is that, like everytime, they will ignore those threads...
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1954178-Warrior-s-Den-November-8th/page2

Ubi-Jimothy
11-15-2018, 11:20 AM
Hi CandleInTheDark, i think we all admire your indefectible devotion.
The thing is that, like everytime, they will ignore those threads...
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1954178-Warrior-s-Den-November-8th/page2

Absolutely not the case. We've got a bunch of questions from a lot of the recent threads regarding balancing and will be addressing them on today's show :)

chukblok
11-15-2018, 12:12 PM
Awesome
You know whats funny..I read an Overwatch post where someone posted a big post as to how For Honor got balancing right why cant Overwatch....felt good! (didnt mean to go off topic sorry)
anyways thanks!

Lord_Cherubi
11-15-2018, 12:54 PM
Awesome
You know whats funny..I read an Overwatch post where someone posted a big post as to how For Honor got balancing right why cant Overwatch....felt good! (didnt mean to go off topic sorry)
anyways thanks!

Thank you sir, you saved my day 😅

Goat_of_Vermund
11-15-2018, 01:01 PM
Lol... I guess it's all subjective.


I still believe in the devs making the gsme right, but I don't think I can play again without knowing that changes are coming. All my mains are useless.

chukblok
11-15-2018, 04:01 PM
Lol... I guess it's all subjective.


I still believe in the devs making the gsme right, but I don't think I can play again without knowing that changes are coming. All my mains are useless.

Fingers crossed today for you then mate!

Lord_Cherubi
11-15-2018, 07:35 PM
Well he didn't use the term "rework" but "Shugoki improvements Season 9" did get my hopes up high. Feintable charged heavy is already a step in the right direction!

Corentin10111
11-15-2018, 07:42 PM
Ok let do it!
To start i'm gonna say that since his first intervention in a warrior's den i have a real sympathy for Stephan. He seems to be professional and overall a lovable guy.
About today's den:

About balancing:
-Shugo and LB getting improved, we will see..
-Few words about toxic technics (shoulder bash, zone, HA feints...) but any solution. PTR guys! PTR is the solution to your problems!

Big broblems to me:
-The game is the same on console and pc, that is not viable.
-It seems like the team want to make all heroes stronger and versatile AF (wu lins are a good illustation), i think it would be an improvment to leave every characters somehow "predictable", like it felt at the beginning. If every character have too many strong options it turns the game in a luck/random game instead of a skill based gameplay.
-Some moves are too strong to be feintable. If there is a high reward you have to commit. (warden broken sb)
-You take the top 1 for reference. It is obviously not a good way to see how things goes.
- I understand that you don't wan't to change moves every week (especially if it is going back and forth) but 6 months for tweaks is not acceptable. You would rather change too much than not enough in my opinion.

I probably forgot things but will edit if necessary.

Promethean_IV
11-15-2018, 08:07 PM
I Really want them to adress Aramusha in the next den, or aknowledge that he needs attention too

CandleInTheDark
11-15-2018, 08:49 PM
Recap is up

Knight_Raime
11-15-2018, 09:42 PM
Thanks for the recap as always Candle. I'm going to make a seperate thread real quick to give people the highlights of the Q&A to make it a bit more understandable (as the devs own lingo can be confusing) and then link it back in here for you.

The_B0G_
11-15-2018, 09:51 PM
From the sounds of it, block shove and Shugoki armor is going to be gone with their reworks.

Lord_Cherubi
11-15-2018, 09:59 PM
I Really want them to adress Aramusha in the next den, or aknowledge that he needs attention too

I might be alone with my opinion but i would love if Musha got a deflect. Nothing too fancy, maybe just a kick that can be followed by slashing wind or something.

Vordred
11-15-2018, 10:27 PM
well, i decided to call it quits with for honor a few days ago, but thought i would tune into this as there was all the talk of balance.

but all this did was affirm my decision, all I really got from this is hey, we are basing everything on the top 2% of players and light spam is the way to go, so screw everyone else and most importantly F*** the console players.

Knight_Raime
11-15-2018, 10:39 PM
Here is that highlights thread I talked about

https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1956254-Warriors-den-nov-15th-highlights?p=13782198#post13782198

EvoX.
11-15-2018, 10:57 PM
Top three issues from a fight system perspective – Reaction reduction

Leave it to the FH balance team to look at threads complaining about 400ms lights and go: ''Hmm, why don't we increase the speed of all light attacks in the game?''

Seriously, he outright said they're not content with 500ms lights anymore, what in the hell? So everyone will have 400ms attacks from neutral in the future? I don't want to play a glorified guessing game where you shoot in the dark of what's to come since it will be completely unreactable, obviously disregarding how some people like to put it to feel superior - ''reads'' - even though they're just taking a lucky guess and dealing with what happens. Funny as hell how they think they're something special, though.

Basically, soon: less skill, more random guessing. Perfect, just what everyone wanted.

Knight_Raime
11-15-2018, 11:06 PM
Leave it to the FH balance team to look at threads complaining about 400ms lights and go: ''Hmm, why don't we increase the speed of all light attacks in the game?''

Seriously, he outright said they're not content with 500ms lights anymore, what in the hell? So everyone will have 400ms attacks from neutral in the future? I don't want to play a glorified guessing game where you shoot in the dark of what's to come since it will be completely unreactable, obviously disregarding how some people like to put it to feel superior - ''reads'' - even though they're just taking a lucky guess and dealing with what happens. Funny as hell how they think they're something special, though.

Basically, soon: less skill, more random guessing. Perfect, just what everyone wanted.

I'm probably getting myself set on fire for saying this (because I know we already don't see eye to eye when it comes to reads) So i'll just ignore that part.

I think it's a mistake for you to assume that they're going to turn all lights into 400ms attacks. Stephan clearly mentioned light openers and chained lights. He also mentioned "we need those delayed lights" Along side 400ms lights.

I take this to mean that in chain lights will likely become faster. But lights that are meant to be openers (like say a light after a feint) might get bigger windows to delay. Or just become faster. And becoming faster doesn't inherently mean 400ms lights either.

As the devs were expirementing with varied MS increments with raider in the last tech test. Finally there is the buffered attack issue. Where attacks when buffered are slower than their intended speed. this could also mean they're addressing that too (as they've mentioned awhile back that they are 100% of this behavior and it's not intended.

So I think you're jumping the gun there. I would say caution is a fair stance to take. But saying they're going to turn all lights into 400ms attacks is really going over board. Because that's not what was said at all.

Goat_of_Vermund
11-16-2018, 09:49 AM
I disagree with the answer given to my question. I did not talk about big, game breaking things implemented on certain characters, just minimal changes. For example, if you would rewrite pk's heavy opener damage from 20 to 27 without changing anything else, you already helped a heavily underpowered character. Or just remove shugo health loss on failed de. These tiny changes wouldn't solve the problems with these characters, but even these would change our everyday gaming experience.

p0wn3rki11
11-20-2018, 07:41 AM
In terms of hero specific workings....shugoki now confirmed rework next season has me hopeful....but if my hopes are dashed with an underwhelming rework so help me...
Content is good, new cosmetics are good, but this game needs balance more than anything now. At some point we will have to admit that console and pc do not work the same, but that is just my opinion...along with many others' as well. Let's hope your fixes to revenge make it back into the gank stopping tool it once was (although less 1 shotting everyone and more gank stop)
I want to see this game succeed and come out of the balance hell that it is in right now, I am hopeful....